Erwin Put coments over new Canon cameras

[Juan Zas]

Here is the link to Erwins Puts site (http://www.imx.nl/photosite/comments/c031.html) with some coments over the new bodies and new Canon strategy:

- 35 mm FF for high end or pro
- APS-C for the rest
- 1,3 crop BYE BYE !!
- ISO 6400
- Two 1D, one coming from 5D sensor, retailing $4500
- the other 22 Mp.

once again, the info comes from NL (Netherlands)!!

[Hellashot]

Canon already discounted the end of 1.3x sensor bodies. Your info is someone's guess.

[Juan Zas]

It looks like the link has been removed; here with is a text copy of the article in the Web Page. may be somebody has react due to NDA agreements !!!

"Canon high end strategy goes for 35mm format
New Canon high-end cameras announced: D1 and D1S models with 35mm format sensor area.

In my original article about the Canon 5D I reflected on the technical and more philosophical aspects of the �barnack�-format for digital cameras. I noted that the 5D was a milestone camera because of feasibility of a large sensor at an affordable price. It was and it is my view that the 35mm format and the matched optics to create classical viewing angles and classical depth of field gradients, in addition to the artistic aspects of using the 2:3 format that has to be mastered before you can compose interesting pictures.

Olympus went for the easy way with the 4:3 format, that is much easier to use and conforms to the ubiquitous TV screen format that is a constant visual companion on today's culture.

In the current issue of AP, Geoffrey Crawley looks at the aspects of image quality tht is attainable with the full format (35mm) and the APS-C format that is roughly equivalent to half frame, and retains the 2:3 relation. He concludes that image wise there is a draw: both sensor areas deliver the same imagery. He compares two systems that have about the same pixel size and then it is not surprising that theoretically and with test charts the same image quality is possible. But there is much more to analyse here. In my comparison of the M8 with the 5D, the Canon gave somewhat better resolution despite having a larger pixel size. It is the software stupid! You can hear Bill Clinton shouting. And my Siemens star results indicated that the MTF values in the region from 30% to 10% of the Nyquist maximum are critical for effective image quality.

Presumably the debate will go on for a while and that is fine. We simply do not know that much about digital capture and digital processing as we know about chemical processing the silver halide grain. Here we have an history of 100 years of cumulative experience, but in the digital arena our knowledge spans hardly a decade. And myths are already all over the place!

You can like or hate Canon, but one theme is obvious: here we have a company that has a very steady course and a very clearly defined goal for the next ten years. Some cameras that were introduced over the last thirty years might draw negative comments and did not become world beaters. There main fault in retrospect has been to focus too long on the amateur market and leaving Nikon alone in the professional pond. But since the EOS body emerged around 1985, the company exhibits a singular drive.

The new D1 packs the sensor of the 5D in a really robust body, the film-loading 1V (end to that era?). The capture speed is very high and there is that mysterious comment that the 1D has no memory buffer, presumably wring directly to the flash card. The new 1Ds shares the same body and brings the pixel count to 22 million on a 24x36mm area. The most intriguing remark is Canons statement that from now on there will be no more 1.3 crop sensors. The strategy then is clear: the amateur market will be served by APS-C with 1.5/1.6 crop factor and a new range of lenses. The professional high-end market will be exclusively served by full-format sensors allowing all Canon lenses to operate at the true computed focal length and viewing angle. Canon seems to be quite confident that the problems with the 35mm format can be addressed and overcome. There is now also an ISO 6400 value available. The new cameras will be formidable instruments, the 1D attacking the professional market for mobile photography and the 1Ds (with 22 M pixels) attacking the medium format stationary (studio) photography. There is a risk here: many professional reportage photographers do not want nor need that huge amount of pixels. Is Nikon smarter in this respect and listening more closely to the market?

Nikon continues to state that they will not embark on that route and stay faithful to the APS format derivatives. For how long we may ask?

The 1D will retail for 4500 dollars and will be cheaper than the Leica M8. This is not a clash of civilisations, but a minor clash of belief. The M8 couples a mechanical film-loading body to a solid state sensor and retains as much of the classical values as can be done within the technological constraints.

The 1D couples a fully electronic film-loading body to a full 35mm format solid state sensor and skips as much of the classical values as can be accomplished within operational constraints. There is no doubt in what direction the mainstream buyer will move. Canon is shaping the market and the others are more or less responding to market trends as they are perceived by the gurus.

Leica has been troubled over the last decade by a most erratic decision making process by a series of CEO's and this decision making is reflected in the current stable of products. One really hopes that there will be now a steady developing strategy with a clearly defined future vision for the product range to be developed.

The Canon strategy is very consistent and very profitable. Their choice for the classical 35mm format for the high-end camera system is somewhat surprising, given the fact that they are alone in this choice, but then the market power of Canon is quite strong.

Now the competition must react."

[BigBlueDodge]

Hmm, this article does tie together alot of mini rumors that are showing up in these forums

1. Next 1Ds MkII would be 22MP
2. 1Ds line would be split into two cameras
3. Next 1Ds would be much smaller (Annie Liebowitz thread) with no grip
4. 1DMkIIN replacement would be 12MP
5. ISO 64000

I didn't read it specifically, but if I had to guess that this new $4500 camera would be the replacement for the 1D MkIIN. Pricewise, it certainly fits (as 1DMKIIN was retailing for $3999 for the longest time) and he made mention that the capture speed is very high. As good as the 5D sensor is, it just makes sense for Canon to incorporate it into other camera's. Digic III may be the right technology to allow for 8.5 fps processing speed. Also, Digic III is supposed to have better noise reduction support, so ISO 6400 becomes a reality.

So the question then becomes, where does the 5D fit in? Will it continue to exist on its own, or will it eventually get rolled into the other cameras.

I wish he had more details on the 1.6x line.

[blackshadow]

What he says makes a lot of sense... if it's true 12MP, 6400ISO, Digic III, FF in a 1D type body @ 8.5FPS will be the ideal camera for me - bring it on!

[Juan Zas]

Well, it looks like the Canon strategy to the future is separate the cameras bodies in two classes depending on sensors: FF and 1,6. But it isn´t clear at all, because from the article seems that Canon is also going to provide a kind of "dynamic crop" (digital mag?) or so, letting go to 1,25 crop and in this way still cover all the people with the lens for the 1D N models.

Relative to where is the 5D; I think that there is a lot of space, looking to the price range:

Entry level -->>> 400D ($800)

Middle segment -->> 30D -->> 40D ($1500)

Semi Pro or Pro -->> 5D ($3000)

--->> New 1Ds ($4500) (5D evolutes)

Pro Segment ---->> 1Ds Mk II ($7000) ---> 16 Mp
---->> 1Ds Mk III ($12000) ---> 22 Mp

[AdamJL]

If the new 1Ds and 1D N are going to be smaller, I can only assume the 5D will stay as it is - a camera for advanced amateurs or a backup for those with the smaller 1D's.
And therefore, I don't see why Canon would upgrade the 5D anytime soon :(
Bugger.
Come on Canon. Weather-seal a 5D body at the 5Ds price-point, and I promise I'll give you my money!

[ipacmm]

I do not understand why canon would want to make a smaller 1-series, I would rather have them leave the camera the way it is and upgrade the specs on it. I personally think the size is perfect and would not want to carry around a smaller camera that costs that much money. I feel the size distributes the weight of longer lenses a lot better and I feel that the price is also apart of the size. The 5D would be the camera, if I didn't want a grip or if the 1-series was too big, but how could I spend over $7K for a camera that looks like a 5D, 30D or any other canon without a grip.

I would like to see a more up-to-date 5D with some better specs to be a good alternative to the 1-series if you do not like the size or weight, but I really hope they do not cut the size down to how the 1V was…

[Juan Zas]

I do not understand why canon would want to make a smaller 1-series, I would rather have them leave the camera the way it is and upgrade the specs on it. I personally think the size is perfect and would not want to carry around a smaller camera that costs that much money. I feel the size distributes the weight of longer lenses a lot better and I feel that the price is also apart of the size. The 5D would be the camera, if I didn't want a grip or if the 1-series was too big, but how could I spend over $7K for a camera that looks like a 5D, 30D or any other canon without a grip.


Rumors say that Canon it´s also development a nice selection of grips that you can add and where you can spend also all your money and more .... so in this way you can have again a bigger body with several fashionable and personalized options :lol: :lol:

[joegolf68]

Hmm, this article does tie together alot of mini rumors that are showing up in these forums

1. Next 1Ds MkII would be 22MP
2. 1Ds line would be split into two cameras
3. Next 1Ds would be much smaller (Annie Liebowitz thread) with no grip
4. 1DMkIIN replacement would be 12MP
5. ISO 64000

I didn't read it specifically, but if I had to guess that this new $4500 camera would be the replacement for the 1D MkIIN. Pricewise, it certainly fits (as 1DMKIIN was retailing for $3999 for the longest time) and he made mention that the capture speed is very high. As good as the 5D sensor is, it just makes sense for Canon to incorporate it into other camera's. Digic III may be the right technology to allow for 8.5 fps processing speed. Also, Digic III is supposed to have better noise reduction support, so ISO 6400 becomes a reality.

So the question then becomes, where does the 5D fit in? Will it continue to exist on its own, or will it eventually get rolled into the other cameras.

I wish he had more details on the 1.6x line.

I am not understanding what you are saying, honestly. I've read the article a couple of times and I don't see any mention of:

4. 1DMkIIN replacement would be 12MP

I am hoping the 1D-Sports is as you state, 12MP with 6400 ISO, at least 8.6 fps and a few other improvements such as auto eye focus. Rumors are beginning to fill up, timeis getting closer and closer, I hope.

[blackshadow]

I am not understanding what you are saying, honestly. I've read the article a couple of times and I don't see any mention of:

4. 1DMkIIN replacement would be 12MP



It mentions a 5D sensor in a 1v body - 5d sensor = 12MP.

[fstop11.net]

I would of said the 5D would take the 1Ds Mark II' 16.7mp sensor but the 5D's is far superior color wise and noise wise.

[blackshadow]

I would of said the 5D would take the 1Ds Mark II' 16.7mp sensor but the 5D's is far superior color wise and noise wise.

Why?

If what is mooted in this post about the replacement to the 1dM2N there is a clear delineation between the 1D pro series, the prosumer 5D and the 1.6 crop factor cameras; which makes a lot of sense from a market segmentation perspective. It doesn't make a lot of sense for Canon to replace the 5D as there is nothing in the market to compete with it anyway.

[Tom W]

I would of said the 5D would take the 1Ds Mark II' 16.7mp sensor but the 5D's is far superior color wise and noise wise.

While I think that the 5D may have a small noise advantage, I'm not sure as to it's "far" superior color over the 1Ds II. I will say that for me, picture styles gives me good results much of the time. Whether or not picture styles are responsible for a percieved difference in color is worth debate. I know that my 5D presented me with nicer colors than my old 1D II did, but I also know that I used a more timid approach to color saturation with the 1D2.

[Tom W]

It doesn't make a lot of sense for Canon to replace the 5D as there is nothing in the market to compete with it anyway.

....yet.....

[BigBlueDodge]

I am not understanding what you are saying, honestly. I've read the article a couple of times and I don't see any mention of:

4. 1DMkIIN replacement would be 12MP

I am hoping the 1D-Sports is as you state, 12MP with 6400 ISO, at least 8.6 fps and a few other improvements such as auto eye focus. Rumors are beginning to fill up, timeis getting closer and closer, I hope.


Joegolf, the numbered points aren't anything taken from that specific article. They are rumors that have been brought up on POTN/Fred Miranda/Dpreview etc. I've just listed some of the major rumors that have cropped up several times. My point is that the article posted does tie together all of these disperate rumors.

The "1DMkIIN replacement would be 12MP" rumor is one that is being talked about on this very forum. You can see it when you view all of the threads in this forum. Because that article mentions that the presumed 1D MKII replacement would use the 5D sensor, this would validate the rumor that that the 1DMKII replacment would be 12MP (as discussed in the thread http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=262990 )

[sboerup]

Here are some minor additions (minor in my mind set) that would make it mandatory for me to upgrade to the 1D3. I like the sounds of the 1D3 now, seems more like a merge of the 5D and 1Dmk2n. Canon needs to implement these features before I upgrade:
-integrated PW module in camera (nikon has had this for a while now)
-wi-fi in camera would be awesome but I know size is a limit (maybe one of the grips has wi-fi built in???)
-auto crop mode sounds interesting, I like the idea of a 12mp FF chip, with auto-crop going to say 10mp with faster frame rate?? If the auto crop does not improve the frame rate-capture it seems ultimately pointless, more or less a digital zoom feature

With these features it would be my perfect camera. Just a 5D with faster frame rate, 1 series AF and the PWs would be heaven for me. The 5D sensor is just too good to pass up, so a "1Dv" would be killer. What kind of cool grip options do we see in the horizon?

I like the thought that a smaller grip could be possible, like the A2e has, just a minimal grip but provides a great deal of stability. Sounds interesting.

[blackshadow]

What is PW?

[CoolToolGuy]

What is PW?

Pocket Wizard? Wireless remote triggers.

Have Fun,

[joegolf68]

Joegolf, the numbered points aren't anything taken from that specific article. They are rumors that have been brought up on POTN/Fred Miranda/Dpreview etc. I've just listed some of the major rumors that have cropped up several times. My point is that the article posted does tie together all of these disperate rumors.

The "1DMkIIN replacement would be 12MP" rumor is one that is being talked about on this very forum. You can see it when you view all of the threads in this forum. Because that article mentions that the presumed 1D MKII replacement would use the 5D sensor, this would validate the rumor that that the 1DMKII replacment would be 12MP (as discussed in the thread http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=262990 )

Hi BigBlue,
Yeah, I've read the other posts on this Forum. Knowing the link disappeared and then was pasted here for text, I thought I might have missed something. The pasted article here made me fear more about the new 1D-Sports then help me feel settled. I was hoping that your roundup of points is pretty correct, as I don't want a 22MP camera. Unfortunately, the article seemed to be also about the Sports model but didn't say much at all. I appreciated that you put it all together in your post and hope you nailed the summary. Thanks. I'm getting tired and my pain meds are kicking in (bad back) so I hope I make sense with my post. I wish the article would have had some good info on the Sports model also.

[blackshadow]

Unfortunately, the article seemed to be also about the Sports model but didn't say much at all. I appreciated that you put it all together in your post and hope you nailed the summary. Thanks. I'm getting tired and my pain meds are kicking in (bad back) so I hope I make sense with my post. I wish the article would have had some good info on the Sports model also.

I hope your back feels better (too much golf perhaps?). If you read the para below it is pretty succinct about both the 1D and 1Ds replacement cameras



The new D1 packs the sensor of the 5D in a really robust body, the film-loading 1V (end to that era?). The capture speed is very high and there is that mysterious comment that the 1D has no memory buffer, presumably wring directly to the flash card. The new 1Ds shares the same body and brings the pixel count to 22 million on a 24x36mm area. The most intriguing remark is Canons statement that from now on there will be no more 1.3 crop sensors. The strategy then is clear: the amateur market will be served by APS-C with 1.5/1.6 crop factor and a new range of lenses. The professional high-end market will be exclusively served by full-format sensors allowing all Canon lenses to operate at the true computed focal length and viewing angle. Canon seems to be quite confident that the problems with the 35mm format can be addressed and overcome. There is now also an ISO 6400 value available. The new cameras will be formidable instruments, the 1D attacking the professional market for mobile photography and the 1Ds (with 22 M pixels) attacking the medium format stationary (studio) photography. There is a risk here: many professional reportage photographers do not want nor need that huge amount of pixels. Is Nikon smarter in this respect and listening more closely to the market?


In summary:

1D - 12MP (5D sensor)
1Ds - 22MP sensor

Both will have FF sensors and 6400 ISO - no mention is made of a change to the speed for the 1D replacement so I imagine it will still be around the 8.5 FPS.

[joegolf68]

It mentions a 5D sensor in a 1v body - 5d sensor = 12MP.

Thanks. You and Bluedog are keeping track for us, I missed that (I miss everything anyway, lol)

Joe

[Tom W]

....In summary:

1D - 12MP (5D sensor)
1Ds - 22MP sensor

Both will have FF sensors and 6400 ISO - no mention is made of a change to the speed for the 1D replacement so I imagine it will still be around the 8.5 FPS.

I would bet (very little, I'm a poor gambler) that if the 12 mpx full-frame 1D comes to fruition, it will be a new sensor. Canon would take what they've learned with the 5D and improve on it. Otherwise, ISO 6400 seems like it might be a bit rough. Yes, the 5D is a very good performer in the noise department, but I would think that ISO 6400 would be pressing the limits, unless the take the Nikon approach to noise reduction (detail reducing processing).

[CoolToolGuy]

I'm wondering if a move to FF in the "sports" model would generate a reaction from the professional sports shooters whose lenses are now "shorter." In order to get the same angle of view they have with the 1D they would have to add a TC or move up to the next longer lens.

Just Curious.

Have Fun,

[farrukh]

I'm wondering if a move to FF in the "sports" model would generate a reaction from the professional sports shooters whose lenses are now "shorter." In order to get the same angle of view they have with the 1D they would have to add a TC or move up to the next longer lens.

Just Curious.

Have Fun,

TC's + further expensive + longer lenses are not a problem for them ;-)
ISO 6400 will rejoice them big time.

[blackshadow]

I'm wondering if a move to FF in the "sports" model would generate a reaction from the professional sports shooters whose lenses are now "shorter." In order to get the same angle of view they have with the 1D they would have to add a TC or move up to the next longer lens.

Just Curious.

Have Fun,

Doubtful as many of those who shoot sports have their gear supplied, also bigger sensor gives more opportunity for cropping at higher quality.

[I Simonius]

Hmm, this article does tie together alot of mini rumors that are showing up in these forums

So the question then becomes, where does the 5D fit in? Will it continue to exist on its own, or will it eventually get rolled into the other cameras.



tsk tsk tsk, Im not happy about the paucity of rumours for the 5D upgrade, not happy at all, tsk tsk tsk

:lol:

[CoolToolGuy]

Doubtful as many of those who shoot sports have their gear supplied, also bigger sensor gives more opportunity for cropping at higher quality.

I understand the cropping issue.

But if the FF happens, those that are using a 300mm now will need to move up to a 400mm to get the same angle of view (300x1.3=390), and those that are using a 400mm will need a 500mm (400x1.3=520) - so in the "lens crib" there will be a whole lot of available 300mm's and a sudden need for more 500mm's. I don't think those that supply the gear have shelves full of $5000 lenses just laying around waiting for Canon to upgrade to FF, so either cropping happens or Canon sells a lot more lenses.

Interesting.

Have Fun,

[Tom W]

Would I be scorned if I mentioned that a 1D Mk IIn is justed a cropped 5D? :) :D

[joegolf68]

I hope your back feels better (too much golf perhaps?). If you read the para below it is pretty succinct about both the 1D and 1Ds replacement cameras



In summary:

1D - 12MP (5D sensor)
1Ds - 22MP sensor

Both will have FF sensors and 6400 ISO - no mention is made of a change to the speed for the 1D replacement so I imagine it will still be around the 8.5 FPS.

Thanks a lot blackshadow, I appreciate the kind thoughts. No, I had to give up golf, the worst thing in the world for me to do emotionally, but physically I had to. That is how I got into photography. I a hoping, if lucky, I can go out with my buddies in the spring when they golf and I can at least take pictures. I am so bad off I can't even putt without pain. 54 years old, active life until five years ago, money no issue any longer, and I live, if it can be called that, in pain every day. So be it.

I thank you for the update. I am hoping the new !D-Sports is something I want, as I will buy it immediately. I won't give up lenses for a new format (I doubt Canon would do that) nor would I give up a minimum of 5 fps like the 30D. FF or 1.3 crop, I don't know which I would even prefer, or care about. If the 1D-Sports meets my idea of an upgrade to the II N, I am there, probably with a 300 2.8 IS or quite possibly the 400 2.8. Why not, it would be fun to take pictures from such a long distance. I'd have to sit in the cart and get some nice snaps, hehehe.

[joegolf68]

Would I be scorned if I mentioned that a 1D Mk IIn is justed a cropped 5D? :) :D

Not at all, since the statement has no basis in fact. :) Like gee, the Pro1 is basically a 5D but less expensive and better images out of the box. ;)

[PacAce]

Not at all, since the statement has no basis in fact. :) Like gee, the Pro1 is basically a 5D but less expensive and better images out of the box. ;)

Tom is right, though. But the Pro1 is nothing like a cropped version of the 5D. Not even close. :shock: ;)

[joegolf68]

Tom is right, though. But the Pro1 is nothing like a cropped version of the 5D. Not even close. :shock: ;)

I am not sure that is true. f he is talking about the new 1D-Sports, there are many similarities, but viva la difference, if he is comparing current models.... NOT, as there is no comparison that I can see to justify. The 5D owners surely love their cameras, which is great. When I bought the 30D, $$ was of no issue to me at all between the two, (30D vs. 5D) as I was not going to give away 5fps. But from what I continue to hear here, the 5D surely puts out some wonderful images. If I were to choose again, the fps would still sway me, but the 5D is impressive to hear from ya all. I am hapy to see you 5D people so happy. I like my 30D, but not the same love affair as you guys. I hope then, that the new Sports model makes me as happy with it as the 5D makes you guys.

[zman]

Tom is right, though.

I agree, 1DmkII and 5D have the same pixel size.

[Rich_claypole]

and those that are using a 400mm will need a 500mm (400x1.3=520) - so in the "lens crib" there will be a whole lot of available 300mm's and a sudden need for more 500mm's.

Not unless Canon release a 500 F2.8! Focal length is one thing, but F2.8 or better is a more important thing to those that shoot sports on a regular basis! 300 and 400 F2.8 will remain the sports shooters choice of tele-lens for a long time yet. Unless of course you shoot in good weather and can justify a 600 F4 :)

[Blue S2]

Why couldn't they still shoot the same lenses on a Full Frame. They will still get the same shot as before...they can crop manually. A crop isn't a "zoom," its a different smaller view of the same image isnt it?

With high mp. they should be able to just crop of the surrounding shot and have it still hq enough to satisfy them.

[delhi]

I am not sure that is true. f he is talking about the new 1D-Sports, there are many similarities, but viva la difference, if he is comparing current models.... NOT, as there is no comparison that I can see to justify. The 5D owners surely love their cameras, which is great. When I bought the 30D, $$ was of no issue to me at all between the two, (30D vs. 5D) as I was not going to give away 5fps. But from what I continue to hear here, the 5D surely puts out some wonderful images. If I were to choose again, the fps would still sway me, but the 5D is impressive to hear from ya all. I am hapy to see you 5D people so happy. I like my 30D, but not the same love affair as you guys. I hope then, that the new Sports model makes me as happy with it as the 5D makes you guys.

5D alone doesn't produce good pictures. It requires very good lens to make it work. It's ultimately the lens! Strap a crummy 35-80mm on it and tell me if the 5D will be any better than a 30D. I highly doubt if it even worse off due to pronounced corner softness.

[Blue S2]

Thats true! I tried my old 35-80 and the color was just not the same!

[CoolToolGuy]

Not unless Canon release a 500 F2.8! Focal length is one thing, but F2.8 or better is a more important thing to those that shoot sports on a regular basis! 300 and 400 F2.8 will remain the sports shooters choice of tele-lens for a long time yet. Unless of course you shoot in good weather and can justify a 600 F4 :)

I understand - and that, to me, argues against abandoning the 1.3 crop factor. The photogs have become used to it.

Why couldn't they still shoot the same lenses on a Full Frame. They will still get the same shot as before...they can crop manually. A crop isn't a "zoom," its a different smaller view of the same image isnt it?


They can, but AFAIK many sports and news photogs are under short deadlines, and they won't/can't crop and recompose before sending their images down the line.

One of the rumors getting some chat here and about is that the newest Canon DSLR will have an enlarged, high quality screen which will permit editing in the camera. While that doesn't jive with the rumor of a smaller body, it would allow some editing to be done by the photog.

Rumors are rampant - it looks like we will know in a week or so. :confused:

Have Fun,

[Canuck]

Not unless Canon release a 500 F2.8! Focal length is one thing, but F2.8 or better is a more important thing to those that shoot sports on a regular basis! 300 and 400 F2.8 will remain the sports shooters choice of tele-lens for a long time yet. Unless of course you shoot in good weather and can justify a 600 F4 :)

Holy cow! A 500 F2.8 are you outta your mind? :lol: :rolleyes: :cool: The 120-300 F2.8 in my sig is 5 3/4 lbs/2.6kg. That might be about the size of the 1200mm F5.6 and cost well into the 5 digit numbers, maybe 6. That would be a real beast of a lens.

[CyberDyneSystems]

I'll be a bit disappointed (enough not to bother getting one) if the next 1D maintains the same pixel density as the current model, ie: if it uses the current 5D sensor @ 12MP FF.

The whole reason I haven't gone to the "N" is that I was waiting for a camera with higher pixel density..

Ah well,. you can't please everyone.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Would I be scorned if I mentioned that a 1D Mk IIn is justed a cropped 5D? :) :D

Exactly why I don't have a 5D,. :) :lol:

[Canuck]

That and the 1D MkIIN is 5.5 frames per sec faster than the 5D.

[donlavange]

Well, it looks like the Canon strategy to the future is separate the cameras bodies in two classes depending on sensors: FF and 1,6. But it isn´t clear at all, because from the article seems that Canon is also going to provide a kind of "dynamic crop" (digital mag?) or so, letting go to 1,25 crop and in this way still cover all the people with the lens for the 1D N models.

Relative to where is the 5D; I think that there is a lot of space, looking to the price range:

Entry level -->>> 400D ($800)

Middle segment -->> 30D -->> 40D ($1500)

Semi Pro or Pro -->> 5D ($3000)

--->> New 1Ds ($4500) (5D evolutes)

Pro Segment ---->> 1Ds Mk II ($7000) ---> 16 Mp
---->> 1Ds Mk III ($12000) ---> 22 Mp

Wy can't the camera industry give us some of the avantages of lower cost with technology improvements? We have seen it in computers, some lower end cameras, printers etc (I rember paying $2000 for a laser printer and you can get a far superior one for $600 today).

I guess it is just that the industry knows that it is more than a market segment that uses these tools in their professions, they are emotionally attached to the craft and its tools!

[donlavange]

Exactly why I don't have a 5D,. :) :lol:

But for the FPS and 45 AF points in the 1D, not the FOVCF? Because you can still crop the 5D image and get a reasonable if not equally defined photo from the 5D?

[CyberDyneSystems]

I guess what I was really saying is that if the 5D had no only offered FF and more pixels, but also higher pixel density,.. (ie it would have needed to be more than 12MP) I might have been more interested. For getting detail of birds in a long telephoto, Pixel density ends up being one of the most important aspects.

Since the 5D was offering the same pixel density as the camera I was already shooting, but with less capable AF and frame rates etc.. it wasn't an important camera to me.

[donlavange]

I guess what I was really saying is that if the 5D had no only offered FF and more pixels, but also higher pixel density,.. (ie it would have needed to be more than 12MP) I might have been more interested. For getting detail of birds in a long telephoto, Pixel density ends up being one of the most important aspects.

Since the 5D was offering the same pixel density as the camera I was already shooting, but with less capable AF and frame rates etc.. it wasn't an important camera to me.

Thanks! I think I figured that out after I had made my post! If we all end up with FF high MP cameras there will be a real market for focus screens with alternate crop and composition lines! OK, I am ready for a 22MP, 8FPS, 45 AF points AND ??

[terry44]

Thanks! I think I figured that out after I had made my post! If we all end up with FF high MP cameras there will be a real market for focus screens with alternate crop and composition lines! OK, I am ready for a 22MP, 8FPS, 45 AF points AND ??

Lower noise, higher ISO, more dynamic range, true 16 bit raw and better performing low light (and low contrast) AF....Then I'd be really happy.

[donlavange]

Lower noise, higher ISO, more dynamic range, true 16 bit raw and better performing low light (and low contrast) AF....Then I'd be really happy.

Maybe they will make everyone happy at PMA (except maybe our accountants)! On second thought accountants are never happy with equipment purchases, even their own!

[mogearnotalent]

I wonder if we are on the edge of some kind of imaging break through, with lost more pixels and price drop, it certainly would propel Canon to the forefront and be a great EOS anniversary event, however Iwould think that if that were the case we wold have known/heard more leaks or infor from suppliers/chip/sensor makers

[Blue S2]

Not necessarily true. Sometimes companies drop amazing surprises. Look at Porsche with the modern Carrera GT. It was virtually out of left field! Despite so much of the testing done in the US, no one saw it coming. Companies can sometimes really keep stuff under wraps if they try.

And in this case...Canon is their own sensor maker.

[lostdoggy]

Maybe they will make everyone happy at PMA (except maybe our accountants)! On second thought accountants are never happy with equipment purchases, even their own!


Hmmmm!!! Why would my account be unhappY??? I don't think he cares!!! Well maybe a little!!!

[mogearnotalent]

Not necessarily true. Sometimes companies drop amazing surprises. Look at Porsche with the modern Carrera GT. It was virtually out of left field! Despite so much of the testing done in the US, no one saw it coming. Companies can sometimes really keep stuff under wraps if they try.

And in this case...Canon is their own sensor maker.


ahh could be, then I hope for great surprises, hopefully not as expensive as the GT, but Porsche is a very small company and can build a show car at Weissach w/o a lot of knowledge from anyone

[Blue S2]

Yes, but to test publically in various parts of the world, shoot footage, promo videos, etc.. of the exposed car...and no one saw it? When every other model they do has always been caught on a spy pic?

Planning, cunning, and a legal backing strong enough to ensure no one is silly enough to take the risk of a leak!

I think Canon does have something up their sleeve.

[mogearnotalent]

Yes, but to test publically in various parts of the world, shoot footage, promo videos, etc.. of the exposed car...and no one saw it? When every other model they do has always been caught on a spy pic?

Planning, cunning, and a legal backing strong enough to ensure no one is silly enough to take the risk of a leak!

I think Canon does have something up their sleeve.


I too hope they have something up their sleeve, I'm waiting hoping the 5D or 40D will not only be better than their predecessors but cheaper, as for the car, I thought the Carrera GT was introduced at the Paris Auto Show and I thought the only road time was in a desert in the US driven by Walter Rohl, and then when they decided to produce it the testing program began, but maybe I'm wrong

[basroil]

all that the new lines of cameras need is to not raise the base price past 1200 for XXd and 3k for a Xd in order to sell out quickly. if canon can pull off a -2EV auto focus system with 5 cross type sensors in middle and above 10 elsewhere, they will kill nikon, pentax, and olympus in the prosumer market.