Planning my first big DSLR purchase, need some opinions

[sgtboost]

Hi all,
First post here. I've spent a LOT of time reading this site and dpreview as well. The wealth of information has REALLY been helpful. I want to get into photography, but waited until higher end DSLRs were reasonable enough in cost for me. Well my first kid is on the way, so while I wanted to wait till full frame cameras came down in price, I'm going ahead and buying what I can afford today.
So a little bit about what I'd like to photograph. Indoors and outdoors both. Portraits, some macro type work like flowers, bugs, etc., and some landscapes and architecture. I also usually tote it around to the zoos, aquariums, and museums. As you know, the lighting conditions in those environments can be low and challenging.
So, while not trying spend over $2000, this is what I'm planning on buying:

Canon XTI with kit lens
Canon 50mm F1.8 lens and hood
Canon Battery Grip with 1 extra battery
Sandisk 2gb CF card.
Some type of carrying case (TBD) and backpack (TBD)
Canon 580 EX and diffuser cap
RC-1 External Remote

Canon 70-200mm F/4.0L USM or 70-300mm f4-5.6 IS USM

I already have a low end tripod which I would only use for indoor portait shots/self photos. I'm not to interested in toting around a tripod as of yet. I want to be more mobile.

My question is this. Based on budget, would I be better off getting the external flash now, or the Canon 70-X00mm lens. If you had to chose either or, which would it be and why?

Is there anything else I should be looking at as well? Keep in mind this will be first DSLR. I came from P&S prior.

In the future, I'm looking to get an underwater housing for the camera and take it scuba diving as well.
THANKS!

[Hurricane_777]

I'd ditch the 50mm, grip and 580ex in favor of a new 430ex and a gently used 70-200 F4 L. Not totally sure how the dollars would work out, but I think you'd be in the ballpark.

[hdco1209]

I had an XT / 350D until a few days ago. Loved the XT and I'm sure you'll love the XTi. As I started to shoot more on the "M" setting, though, I bought the 30D because it's easier to control shutter and aperture quickly using the two wheels.

But whatever, the XT/XTi is a really great camera. Contrary to what I can see from board opinion, I also have had a very good experience w/the EF-S 17-85 and like the smaller size.

Again...whatever. You'll love your combo whatever you end up getting because it's likely a huge leap from where you were as it was for me.

Only thing I'd say is consider why you want that 50mm. It's not a "standard" lens on a camera w/a 1.6X factor. If you want something that approximates a 50mm on a film / full frame camera, get the 28/1.8 or maybe the Sigma 30mm.

[sgtboost]

I was considering the 50mm because it offered a great price and it got great reviews for portrait work (even with the XTi 1.6 factor). Yes/No?

[Big WIll]

50mm is super cheap and can give some wonderful results, but on a 1.6 its far from standard!

[Steiglitz]

Better to get a 28mm F1.8 or the 35mm F2....the 50mm is good for portraits but that aside it is often too long on a cropped camera....the other pirmes listed will give you an effective "normal/standard" field of view, as was the original intention of a 50mm on a fullframe/film body.

[sgtboost]

I

Only thing I'd say is consider why you want that 50mm. It's not a "standard" lens on a camera w/a 1.6X factor. If you want something that approximates a 50mm on a film / full frame camera, get the 28/1.8 or maybe the Sigma 30mm.

The Canon 28 f2.8 is pretty reasonably priced vs the 1.8. With the higher Fstop be an issue for portraits as much?

[Poindexter]

If I had $2,000 to spend, this is what I would do:

$700 - $750 Canon 20D body used
$400 Canon 28-135mm f3.5-5.6 IS USM (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=8454&A=details&Q=&sku=149629&is=USA&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation) [link is to B&H] - walkaround with IS
$570 Canon 70-200mm f4 L (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=8454&A=details&Q=&sku=183198&is=USA&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation) [link is to B&H] extended reach and Image Quality
$100 Adobe Photoshop Elements
Remaining money on storage cards
Spring for low light glass later - investing in the right primes can get very expensive


That should be around $1,850 including shipping, and will give you a very decent setup. It can be argued that this is a little beyond a beginner's setup, but you'll be able to get more use out of it ;)

Those two lenses shouldn't lose much of their value, so you can always replace them with better glass down the road. You should later look into a real flash, a strong tripod and head, and whatever else you may need to satisfy your developing photography style.

Hope that helps :)

Disclaimer: I do not know what you want to shoot, but I know how I would use the equipment. This post is what I would do.

[crn3371]

To answer your original question, I'd get the 7-xx zoom rather than the flash. You state that you like to shoot in museums and the zoo. For the zoo, you'll need the reach of the telezoom. As far as the flash is concerned, most museums don't allow flash photography anyway, so you could get by for the time being with the pop-up flash. There are a few things you could do to save a little money. Substitute the 430ex for the 580, ditch the remote (use the self-timer), get the Opteka grip instead of the Canon.

[JeffreyG]

I think Poindexter gives a pretty nice total package idea, but since his budget is only $1850 I'm going to suggest you spend the extra $70 and get the 50mm f/1.8. If you don't get it, then you have nothing faster than f/4 for low light or small DOF. If you do get it, it's only $70 and there is nothing at f/2 or lower anywhere near that price. 50mm makes for a nice portrait lens length on a 1.6 crop camera and I use mine a ton.

Another thing to consider.....the 28-135 is an OK suggestion but be aware that the 28mm end on a 1.6 crop is not wide at all. If you shoot indoor scenes or landscapes at all it will not be wide enough. In that case you should either buy the XTi new with the kit lens (18-55) or pick up a used kit lens on the cheap.

There are few moderate wide lenses for the crop sensors from Canon (I'm not an expert on third party so somebody may have a better suggestion for you that way) but the EF-S 18-55 can be had used from $65. Your other choices are the 17-40L ($700), the 16-35L ($1600) and the EF-S 17-55 ($1000) none of which fit the budget. I think there is a Sigma 17-50 or 17-70 worth checking, but I don't know much along that line and I don't know cost.

I'd personally have a bit of a gap in the 50 to 70 focal length range than have nothing below 28mm.

[sgtboost]

Thanks guys, this has been really helpful! I'll mull this over and probably pull the trigger in the near future.

[SoundsGood]

As I started to shoot more on the "M" setting, though, I bought the 30D because it's easier to control shutter and aperture quickly using the two wheels.
How's this work? How is it different than the XT?

[Chris]

On the XT you change the shutter speed with the wheel by the shutter button and you change the aperature by pressing and holding the aperature button while turning the same wheel (at least that is how I remember it). On the 30D you don't have to hold in a button. You change the shutter speed the same as with the XT but you use the wheel to the right of the display screen to change the aperature. It is faster and easier.

It may seem like a little thing but I was amazed at how much I liked the controls on the 30D better than the XT. Also, the 30D allows you to review pictures faster and that same wheel next to the display changes the picture you are looking at. Rotate clockwise and you move forward through your pictures, rotate counterclockwise and you are looking at the older pictures. If you don't understand what I am saying, it is kind of like adjusting the volume on an IPOD.

Now, IMHO, if I had 2000.00 I would buy the 30D and skip the XTI. The 30D is rated for 100,000 clicks and is a bigger camera. For me the XT and XTI are a little small in the hand. I would also get the 580EX. Then I could get a double rebate on the 30D of 200.00 and a double rebate on the 580EX of 30.00. That means you are getting a 30D body only for 950.00 (from B&H). Pick up a kit lens on this forum for 50.00. Then use the rest for whatever suits your pleasure, but make sure you get a good back pack to protect your gear!!

[SoundsGood]

Cool... thanks!

I'm gonna be looking pretty closely at the upcoming 40D to replace my XT.

[ebann]

I'd say:

Refurbished 20D body
Flash
17-40/f4L
70-200/f4L

[Sp00ks]

With the kid on the way, I think a flash would be a very good investment. I have seen some pretty good prices on used flashes on the for sale forum. You could also see what kind of used glass your local camera shop has, but know your prices before hand. Most will also let you shoot with a used lens a couple days with the option to return it. Mine does anyway.

Once the baby is born, I doubt there will me much spending on equipment.

[memorex88]

Also, the 30D allows you to review pictures faster and that same wheel next to the display changes the picture you are looking at. Rotate clockwise and you move forward through your pictures, rotate counterclockwise and you are looking at the older pictures. If you don't understand what I am saying, it is kind of like adjusting the volume on an IPOD.


You can do this on the XT.

[gjman]

........ I want to get into photography, but waited until higher end DSLRs were reasonable enough in cost for me. Well my first kid is on the way......Indoors and outdoors both. Portraits, some macro type work like flowers, bugs, etc., and some landscapes and architecture. I also usually tote it around to the zoos, aquariums, and museums.........My question is this. Based on budget, would I be better off getting the external flash now, or the Canon 70-X00mm lens. If you had to chose either or, which would it be and why?....Is there anything else I should be looking at as well? Keep in mind this will be first DSLR. I came from P&S prior........

Based on the portions that I think are relevant from your posts and on real life experience. What most POTNites have missed out is the fact that you have a baby coming. If this is your first kid you can pretty much forget about ANY other photography besides baby shots for a very long time.

Since you are new to photography and you have a kid coming you WILL end up being in the "green box mode" for a very long time. Trust me, a baby will dramatically alter your priorities. If you have a few months to go....you should get "Understanding Exposure" first. Its quickly become the standard for learning how to use your camera correctly.

If you mange to get through the book before your baby comes you will have enough time to actually learn to use your camera (with whatever lens you buy....IMO get the kit lens FIRST and if you MUST get another piece of equipment....get the 580EX if you can afford it or the 430EX if you cant).

Its been my experience that over zealous relatives and friends will tell you NOT to point the flash at the baby (even thought they will conveniently use a P&S and zap the kid with ever harsher flash). An external flash will let you point it away (although you will find out the hard way that if you are new to photography or even not so new....using a flash to get consistent results is very challenging)

As time goes by you will quickly understand if you can handle your new hobby with the baby. If you still want to persue it you will have a idea of what you need/like shooting and you will hang out even more on this forum and before know it you will want a 70-200 f/2.8L, 24-70 f/2.8L or 24-105 f/4L etc.

If you find that your interest is waning or you seem to be happy with a DLSR with a kit lens and a super flash for most of your needs. You just saved a bunch of money. And if you want to sell your 580/430EX in the used market it will hold a lot of its value (till like the next gen flash comes out...then it will drop).

But then thats just my opinion.