New Canon mount DSLR from Kodak!!

[photography By Evangelos]

Here is the link.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0403/04031802kodakslrc.asp


WOW this is great! If it is good with the improved CMOS chip and Canon mount and sells for around $4,000 it is in the bag for me. I have been waiting for Kodak to do this for some time now. I get to keep my great Canon Glass and Flash units. I am very excited more choices for all of us. Now Sigma needs to offer the SD 10 in canon and Nikon mount. I think prices will fall. When we have more choices in the market. Good Job Kodak!!

Angelo

[photography By Evangelos]

oops some one started a post on this. Sorry

[kanwingshing]

That's ok! It's normal that everyone would get excited by this news!!!
So this brings another question.
IF this Kodak and 1D Mk II are the same price.. which one would you guys pick????

[Jmurman]

Based on Kodaks financial status, I would definately opt for the Canon.

[CoolToolGuy]

Cool, very cool. 8)

Has anyone used any of the previous Kodak SLRs for the EF mount?

This body is made by Sigma. Does anyone know if it was reverse engineered, or did they license the EF/EOS technology from Canon?

This could be a very interesting option for those of us waiting and praying for a full-frame body. :? :D

Have Fun
Rick 8)

[CoolToolGuy]

That's ok! It's normal that everyone would get excited by this news!!!
So this brings another question.
IF this Kodak and 1D Mk II are the same price.. which one would you guys pick????

Based on the sensor size, I lean towards the Kodak - but there are many other factors to consider. I would like to see more info, specs, etc. :?

But, then again, the price of either one is about twice what I could justify right now. :(

This may put some pressure on Canon - could be good for us customers. :D

I would not worry too much about Kodak's financial situation - they may make some missteps, but they will be around for a while. :roll:

Have Fun
Rick 8)

[Ikinaa]

One funny thought :
if this Kodak is a sigma with a canon mount, then you can mount sigma lenses for canon mount on it.
Then except the mount, it's a complete sigma
kinda weird

[kanwingshing]

How does Kodak's financial status come into play Jmurman?
For me, if MKII and this DCS-C is the same price, I would be steering a bit towards to the DCS-C side... FF is just so tempting!

[photography By Evangelos]

For me I want larger more MED FORMAT type film files. This is the camera for me. I will get one for sure. I do not need the performance of the 1D MK II. I do weddings not NASCAR events. The 1D MK II is a bit of over kill for me most like 90% will never really use or need this type of performance like 8.5 FPS.

Angelo

[kanwingshing]

ya.. just image the flexiblity we gonna have with that 14 MP, and the ultra wide-angle from the FF....
That's super!

[rodbunn]

I don't know anything about the Kodak/Sigma but from the "preview"
web site above this camera looks like a good one for us wedding photogs.
The full sensor and the asa 6 sounds good. The only thing is the 1.7
frames per sec.... good for weddings but not flexable for sports and
other fun stuff.

Hey, would the Sigma I had re-chipped need to be re-re-chipped to work
on this Kodak/Sigma ????? :D :D

Later, Rod

[Tom W]

How does Kodak's financial status come into play Jmurman?
For me, if MKII and this DCS-C is the same price, I would be steering a bit towards to the DCS-C side... FF is just so tempting!

I think that what he's referring to is whether Kodak will be around to fix it if it should not work properly. Given Kodak's last full frame attempt, there's a good chance of that.

But time will tell. Let's see what it can do first. And, lets see what Canon does as well. My suspicion is that the 1D Mk II will outperform the Kodak in all areas.

Correction - all areas except the quantity of pixels and the size.

The best thing to come out of this is that it will drive prices down again, particularly on FF cameras like the 1Ds. But that won't happen unless this camera performs well. Canon is proven quality - Kodak has to prove itself to even compete.

[kanwingshing]

I think that what he's referring to is whether Kodak will be around to fix it if it should not work properly. Given Kodak's last full frame attempt, there's a good chance of that.

But time will tell. Let's see what it can do first. And, lets see what Canon does as well. My suspicion is that the 1D Mk II will outperform the Kodak in all areas.

Well, true. Since 1D Mk II is base on Canon's proud EOS-1v body, there is a very high chance that the Sigma body wouldn't be able to come close to MK II in this area.

But, if you have to choose between having a nice camera body with excellent focusing capability and extremem high resolution FF sensor, what would you choose?

[JMG]

As stated previously. Further details are going to make or break the decision. What an ISO range though! 6-1600

Also from the pictures it's looking like a huge camera. Not sure it's something I'd cart around on hiking trails for personal use.

Whats the feeling on this... studio camera or personal camera that is going to be used like a normal camera for the average joe.

It still seems to be aimed at the pro.

[Wickedfn4u]

1.7fps seems kind of slow for the company it holds.

[Jesper]

Great!! :D Full frame, 14 MP. What's the price going to be? I've only read somewhere that it's going to be much cheaper than the 1Ds, but in what range will it be?

It's good that Canon gets some serious competition. They need some pressure to keep on spending lots of money on development of new cameras and not sell them for outrageous prices.... :mrgreen:

The lens mount is reverse engineered by Sigma, just like Sigma has reverse engineered it for its Canon-mount lenses. I hope there won't be too many compatibility problems and that all Canon EF lenses will work on the DCS/c. :roll:

[CoolToolGuy]

1.7fps seems kind of slow for the company it holds.

Well for 14MP, that's not exactly slow.

The speed-to-card issue is one that several manufacturers are having to deal with as the file sizes increase. It will be interesting to see how Canon deals with it whenever they replace the 1Ds.

Have Fun
Rick 8)

[JMG]

As stated in the article the Kodak camera is using 512 MB RAM to help compensate for any bottleneck with writing the files.

Based on how the 1D Mark II is designed it would seem that RAM will be the means to the end until the technology advances for the memory cards to handle the large files.

With news like this...
http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/ptech/03/16/toshiba.record.reut/index.html

I think that will be resolved in the coming year, but won't find it's way to Digital Photography for sometime after that.

[evilenglishman]

IF this Kodak and 1D Mk II are the same price.. which one would you guys pick????


Kodak

[photography By Evangelos]

I am not all too sure if they will be in the same price. I hope the camera sell's for around $3,000 to 3,500 not a penny more.

Angelo

[photomd]

Cool! This looks exciting! :D BUT I still have some questions about this camera.
I do some freelance stuff with motorcycle racing and I NEVER shoot a burst of shots. I used to do this and my editors never picked those shots...a waste of film. <shrug>
My biggest concern is whether the focusing will be as fast as Canon's top level cameras. My EOS 3 makes it very easy to track a bike through a turn and get a good shot. I hope the Kodak will. I've never played with the Kodak digital SLR's, but surely there's no shutter lag. Anyone know for sure?
I also wonder about the durability. Tough? Sealed? I guess we'll find out. Now if they'll just bring it in under $3K (yeah, right...)! This'll be fun to watch.

[kanwingshing]

Cool! This looks exciting! :D BUT I still have some questions about this camera.
I do some freelance stuff with motorcycle racing and I NEVER shoot a burst of shots. I used to do this and my editors never picked those shots...a waste of film. <shrug>
My biggest concern is whether the focusing will be as fast as Canon's top level cameras. My EOS 3 makes it very easy to track a bike through a turn and get a good shot. I hope the Kodak will. I've never played with the Kodak digital SLR's, but surely there's no shutter lag. Anyone know for sure?
I also wonder about the durability. Tough? Sealed? I guess we'll find out. Now if they'll just bring it in under $3K (yeah, right...)! This'll be fun to watch.

Actually, with digital, I am sure you would love to start doing those burst shots again as you won't be wasting anyfilm anymore. In you case I would say this new product is not for you. Sport photography do need a fast fps rate right? Go for the MKII in this case. Magazine production don't need that kind of resolution anyhow. And with MKII, you would definitely garantee with the excellent focusing capability of the EOS 1 body.

[evilenglishman]

...Magazine production don't need that kind of resolution anyhow..


Sorry but i think you are VERY wrong with that comment. The resolution of this camera can allow for an A3 magazine print with only a little up-scaling. Great for a double page poster.
Magazines also like to crop images which is virually impossible with the size of images from a 10D etc

[kanwingshing]

I work in the printing industry. Yes ofcourse its ALWAY more flexible to have more pixels. But we CAN work with a 8MP file form MKII if the photo is decent. And fps is very important to get a decent shot in sport photography. That's sport photographer should go for fps, not extremely high MP count.

[Cadwell]

I'm not sure a comparison between this camera and the 1D MkII is realistic. It looks like the new Kodak is more aimed at the same market as the 1Ds.

The 1D MkII will remain the "gold standard" for sports shooters (as long as it's all it's cracked up to be of course).

[PeterS45]

I am not all too sure if they will be in the same price. I hope the camera sell's for around $3,000 to 3,500 not a penny more.

Angelo

The same camera with the Nikon-mount sells for $ 4,999.--, so I don't think they'll make you happy and sell the Canon-mount version for $ 1,500,-- less :( .

[kanwingshing]

In Canada the DCS/n is selling for approx $6500
And the 1D MkII is selling for $6000
So if Kodak decide to charge DCS/c the same there would be $500 difference.
But I don't think they would (at least they shouldn't), as quality of the body is NOT the same. ONLY the sensor is the same.
I think they should place this camera somewhere around $5500 just to pissed Canon off.

[CyberDyneSystems]

This Kodak is a totally different league from the MkII.. as Cadwell allready said, it should be compared to the 1Ds as far as intended use.

The Kodak would be an absolute dog for an actiaon or speed oriented task.

Also consider AF speed etc..

If it's a high speed apllication like sports.. the Kodak is hardly an option.

That said,. many photographers do not need or want the kind of speed that the MkII offers.. for many resolution and a full frame is the holy grail.. and with the first 14n, kodak was the only Manufacturer to offer any competition to the 1Ds

The newly released Nikon version that replacced the original 14n is supposed to have solved the problems that plagued the orginal... it looks to be a far better camera.

I think the Kodak/NikonDCS is expected to street at $4,500.00

I really think that this Kodak could be a valuable alternative to the more costly 1Ds... Personally,. yes I'd prefer a Canon made body. (these Kodaks just don't have the pure bred engineering that Canon and Nikon offer with there bodies) But for several thousand less than a 1Ds and more resolution... ?

I am very interested to see what the reviews say.

[CyberDyneSystems]

I have to assume that the AF system is all Sigma? Or would Kodak have made it themselves?

In which case does this Camera AF like the Sigma SD10 or like the Kodak DCS 14N???

Very interesting development this is :wink: I certainly did not see this coming.

p.s. Oh,.. and the DRebel owners will love this part;

Many key features of the DCS Pro SLR/c camera are based on KODAK PROFESSIONAL firmware and are not hard-wired within the camera, so they can be enhanced and easily upgraded with free firmware downloads from Kodak. Free firmware upgrades essentially give photographers a "new" camera, whereas most other manufacturers require the purchase of an entirely new camera system to receive the latest enhancements.

[kanwingshing]

This might be totally irrelevant. But I just found it interesting.
For DCS/c, Kodak don't make the sensor, FillFactory do.
And the body seems to have awful lots of parts from sigma.
It looks like Kodak is starting to buy things and assemble instead of making their own......

[CoolToolGuy]

Here's a link to Kodak's site.
http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/products/cameras/proSLRc/proSLRcIndex.jhtml?id=0.1.18.18.7.14&lc=en

As I type this I haven't looked through it yet, but it has a lot more than DPREVIEW had.

Have Fun
Rick 8)

[Longwatcher]

Right now if the Canon 1Ds does not come down in price, I'm getting the Kodak. From multiple sources it appears that the price will be close to the same as the Nikon version (especially since the sensor is the expensive item). The price will probably be $4999.95 US {that's what BH listing the SLRn for). $5000 beats $8000 almost any day. The Canon version has better functionality then the Nikon version which I find most cool. The only reason for getting the high end Canon's now appears to be burst rate.
A comment on Luminous Landscape leads me to believe the Kodak SLRn is way superior to the 14n, and since the c version will have the same sensor and electronics should get similiar results.

For me I want a FF digital 35mm format camera. While not perfect again, between the SLRc and my 10D it will finally cover all of my needs, unless there is a unknown big problem with the camera like the 14n had, but the SLRn appears to have solved.

With the Sigma body, the camera should work equally well with Sigma or Canon lenses that are out now and probably will actually work better with Sigma lenses that come out later. Since Sigma lenses are nearly the same quality as Canon, again very cool on the pocket book.

While I can hope the street price is a bit lower then I expect, based on the 1DmkII price I doubt it will be below $5000. However, if it is much above I will have to reconsider. So I am really hoping the 1Ds comes down in price soon or the Kodak SLRc comes in around 5k or less.

The nice potential with Kodak is I believe there is nothing to worry about the company going away within 5-6 years (at least the Camera and paper department) and they have offered to upgrade the 14n's to almost SLRn standard for a reasonable price under the circumstances. They have stated plans to do the same if needed with the Canon version.

Now I just need to save up $5k between now and May.

Just my opinion,

[evilenglishman]

Does the DCS Pro SLR/c use an anti-aliasing filter?
No. The DCS Pro SLR/c does not have an anti-aliasing or "blur" filter. Consequently, the DCS Pro SLR/c yields images that are sharper than most other digital SLR cameras.


would you consider that a good point or a bad point?
Personally I'm not sure

[Jmurman]

How does Kodak's financial status come into play Jmurman?
For me, if MKII and this DCS-C is the same price, I would be steering a bit towards to the DCS-C side... FF is just so tempting!

A couple of reasons and questions here. First of all Kodak has taken a HUGE hit with the loss of film due to digital sales. Look at their stock reports. Kodak is waaaaay down.

Next, this camera is not for the "general" public, but geared for a specific market. Not the numbers that a company of that size needs to sustain itself. Granted, this is a nice piece, and if they introduce a complete line then they could very well make a name for themselves in this market.

However, if this just an attempt to "sell" some cameras with no 3-5 year game plan, then Canon will eat them alive.

[evilenglishman]

A couple of reasons and questions here. First of all Kodak has taken a HUGE hit with the loss of film due to digital sales. Look at their stock reports. Kodak is waaaaay down.

Next, this camera is not for the "general" public, but geared for a specific market. Not the numbers that a company of that size needs to sustain itself. Granted, this is a nice piece, and if they introduce a complete line then they could very well make a name for themselves in this market.

However, if this just an attempt to "sell" some cameras with no 3-5 year game plan, then Canon will eat them alive.


To my recollection Kodak have been producing professional D-SLR's for quite a while (maybe longer than canon have) - I remember playing with a Kodak pro DSLR 6-7 years ago.
So they aren't really new at it or just trying to sell a few cameras :roll:

[CoolToolGuy]

Kodak is no longer the 'Great Yellow Father' like they were when film was king, but they're no Internet startup, either. They have not always made the best marketing decisions when they moved outside of film sales, but they have made the decision to concentrate on digital, and they will get their share of the market. I don't think they want to be king of the pro camera market, they want big chunks of the other parts of the photo business - post-processing, printing, image storage and retrieval, etc.

Even if the camera has a short life, Kodak will be around to support it. Case in point - I bought a used Kodak digital picture frame, but I didn't get the AC adapter. At the time I got it, it had already been discontinued by Kodak. I called Kodak Parts and ordered one, and they shipped it right out. I wouldn't worry about them.

Have Fun
Rick 8)

[CyberDyneSystems]

As Evil says,. Kodak is not new to the DSLR foray,. they were in fact first.. before Canon or Nikon. (or anyone else) Minolta was second. :mrgreen:


I doubt that Kodak is banking on this as there next cash cow.. rather it is there new line of much improved "point and shots" that they are banking on. There latest generation of digicams are a big step forward from there previous digitals.

Rather I think Kodak is staying in the DSLR business to remain relevent in as many fields as possible.

What I want to know is this,. how long before they make one for the Olympus system?

[daaaveman]

My wife bought Kodak's DX6490 P&S recently. She loves it. She had a DCS 290 before that and a DCS 265 prior to that. The DCS series were built like tanks and took good pics for what they were. The new 6490 takes somewhat soft pics but aside from no manual focus, has impressive manual control for a P&S. So while I don't use it much, I do enjoy fiddling with it now and then. It has excellent "beginner" aspects such as pop-up training menus when selections are made. Very user friendly. I think they listen to their customers.

I wouldn't rule Kodak out yet.....and besides, they're going to get rich by suing Sony!! :D

[defordphoto]

I find it amusing reading posts on photo forums that speak of other manufacturers. "If Canon does this, they'll smoke Kodak." "If Kodak doesn't do this, Canon will eat them for lunch."

It's like you're all rooting for a football team or something. I just find it odd.

As for the camera itself, I just don't care for Kodak's track record, but nevertheless, I don't have a use for this camera. That slow frame rate, even shooting portraits or weddings, could be a problem. You could definitely miss some moments at a wedding. But, you could always have a quicker, smaller MPS camera on the side for those quick moments and use the Kodak mainly for the portrait shots.

If is fast portrait mode, like shooting models, the camera could be a bit slow too. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out, but the 14n didn't really play in the 1Ds category anyway. That was just a bad camera.

In the long run, we all win out, and the guys that sit around and watch us all spend our money will really win in the end when they're buying their consumer dSLRs for $299 in about 3-5 years.

I hope some of you get one of these so we can all see what Kodak can do this time around.

[kraterz]

Folks you forget... Kodak has been making EOS mount DSLRs for something like 6-7 years. There was one based on the EOS-1N body. Apparently they have licensed the communication protocols from Canon otherwise these old cameras probably won't work with newer lenses.

If I have read right, Sigma only made the body and not the electronics or the sensor. Electronics are from Kodak using the Canon licensed protocols or firmware.

If this is a reverse engineered Sigma body, then Kodak will be in deep **** once newer lenses stop working with this *really* expensive body. I doubt they would want to screw themselves like that, rather than pay Canon royalties and license the mount info.

[nosquare2003]

I copy from Kodak's website (provided by CoolToolGuy as above):

Does the DCS Pro SLR/c have a CANON Camera body?
No. While the DCS Pro SLR/c does have a CANON EOS compatible lens mount, the camera body is not manufactured by CANON. The DCS Pro SLR/c utilizes a custom-manufactured camera body, built specifically for Kodak. This custom body utilizes magnesium alloy encasements, and a custom remote release terminal.
What, if anything, does this say about your relationship with CANON?
Again, Kodak does not make public details concerning partner relationships.
What is CANON's role in the development of the DCS Pro SLR/c?
CANON had no direct role in the development of the DCS Pro SLR/c.
Will CANON also sell the DCS Pro SLR/c?
No, the DCS Pro SLR/c Digital Camera is exclusively a KODAK PROFESSIONAL branded product.

[MediaMagic]

Just a couple of observations:

"Kodak leverages the CANON Evaluative - Through The Lens (E-TTL) flash metering system in the DCS Pro SLR/c digital camera. Photographers can expect near-perfect flash exposures with the camera, an improvement over many existing professional digital cameras."

What have THEY been smokin'? E-TTL simply ain't all that consistently accurate. Perhaps they've made modifications.



"Many key features of the DCS Pro SLR/c camera are based on KODAK PROFESSIONAL firmware and are not hard-wired within the camera, so they can be enhanced and easily upgraded with free firmware downloads from Kodak. Free firmware upgrades essentially give photographers a "new" camera, whereas most other manufacturers require the purchase of an entirely new camera system to receive the latest enhancements."

So why does any kodak user need to buy this camera? Isn't it all available as a firmware to the original DCS pro making it a "new" camera? Call me a skeptic.

Overall it looks great for studio/weddings. I'd like to test drive one of these babies. For the price of a new 1ds, you could get this one and the 1DmkII and have the best of both worlds. :wink:

[scottbergerphoto]

The article on DP Review suggests by the specs that this camera lacks the updated ETTL to be included with the 1DMarkII.
Scott

[CoolToolGuy]

The article on DP Review suggests by the specs that this camera lacks the updated ETTL to be included with the 1DMarkII.
Scott

Perhaps that will be an early test of Kodak's ability to upgrade via firmware... :?

Have Fun
Rick 8)

[CyberDyneSystems]

Pop Photoagraphy has a review/preveiw of the Nikon bodied version,.. Pop Photog was NOT very pleased with the original 14n.. so we have a reasonable assesment there (the 14N really is a DOG!)

Well Pop had a LOT of good things to say about the new DCSn
They said that the ISO noise issues are resolved,. the rose colored filter is gone, battery life went from about 100 shots to well over 600 :shock: and the resolution is "medium format" in quality.

As for the Sigma body, compared to the "Frankenstein-Nikon" version the Canon/Sigma is really sleek.

[Guillermo Freige]

Another positive SLR/n review from a "not happy with the 14n" site: :)

http://luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/Kodak%20ProSLR-mini-review.shtml

[kanwingshing]

Well then, it looks like we have good resons to believe the performance of this sensor is closer to that of 1Ds then. If the body and AF quality is good too... hum...... :) ..... Yummy!!!

[photography By Evangelos]

With new chip I think the camera will be a winner. The old camera was called he 14N and the new camera is called the PRO SLR N for Nikon and the PRO SLR C for canon.


Angleo

[CyberDyneSystems]

The Luminous mini review is claiming 2.5 FPS raw??? Both Kodak and Pop Photography say it's no more than 1.7 FPS???

Why would Kodak sell itself so short on such an important number marketing wise? Is Luminous out to lunch?

[CoolToolGuy]

The Luminous mini review is claiming 2.5 FPS raw??? Both Kodak and Pop Photography say it's no more than 1.7 FPS???

Why would Canon sell itself so short on such an important number marketing wise? Is Luminous out to lunch?

I know CANON comes to the fingertips by default, but do you really mean why would Kodak sell themselves short?

If so - Kodak may want to be conservative on something like this and provide the figure they can guarantee, and YMMV. The file sizes can vary based on what's in the shot, and the file size is what affects the FPS.

Have Fun
Rick 8)

[CyberDyneSystems]

er,. yeah :)

[Longwatcher]

I took the time to see luminous-landscapes images from the SLRn and while not as good as I would have liked, not bad at all up to ISO 400. ISO 800 looks to be worthless though. Since I would be shooting at around ISO 100 I am not seeing a significant problem with the SLRn shots in that range. Run a couple of algorithms and it should look just as good as the 1Ds at ISO 100 or 200.

I was kind of surprised by the 2.5FPS as well. My suspicion was maybe he had it set on 6MP size RAW instead of 14MP size. However, yes it may highly depend on image content or card writing ability and Kodak may have gone worst case. It is one of the semi-cool features I saw though. The fact you can shoot raw files at a lower resolution if you don't need 13.5MP. It is only semi-cool because I know me and I never shoot anything but highest resolution possible 8)

Can't wait until May or at least until some one I trust gets a full review online. I still would prefer a 1Ds, but cost is a factor.

[CyberDyneSystems]

It is one of the semi-cool features I saw though. The fact you can shoot raw files at a lower resolution if you don't need 13.5MP. It is only semi-cool because I know me and I never shoot anything but highest resolution possible 8)

Can't wait until May or at least until some one I trust gets a full review online. I still would prefer a 1Ds, but cost is a factor.


I agree 100%,... there are better 6MP camras availble for a much more affordable price! :roll:

No,. to get a 13.5 MP camera and shoot 6MP is just friggen odd.

There was a post on FM forums a few months back where the poster asked who else was shooting small reduced res jpegs with the 1Ds,. he went on to explain all the benifits and why he liked it.

I was the first to respond, and my post read;

"this is quite frankly the most bizarre post I have ever read on this forum"

Well,. I was quickly shown even more bizarre. It seemed I was the only one that responded that way,. all others replying also spoke of the advantages of the 1Ds' reduced resolution files. :roll: :?

Why?

[cgratti]

Popular Photography is featuring this camera (KODAK PRO SLR N) with the test results this month...check it out... Just got my issue yesterday....

[Guillermo Freige]

CDS:

Full frame :)
You can need the ultrawideangle of a 1Ds but not a 11MP picture, so why waste space with it?.
Not what I could do, because I shoot only RAW, but for JPEG people it could be a very viable option.