I've never formatted?!

[tikkeltokkel]

I only use the "erase" button to clean my cards of images before shooting -- once downloaded obviously. What is the difference between this method and using the "format card" option. Better/worse/same?

Mike
"Photos only appear to those who know how to take them" - Kertesz

[defordphoto]

Just like a hard drive. Your card will become fragmented and slow. You should format at least once a week. Most of us out here format the card rather than deleting images. It's faster for one thing and formatting ALWAYS keeps the card clean and defragged.

[ldivinag]

Just like a hard drive. Your card will become fragmented and slow. You should format at least once a week. Most of us out here format the card rather than deleting images. It's faster for one thing and formatting ALWAYS keeps the card clean and defragged.

okay... CF are solid state memory, unlike a hard drive wich has moving parts.

okay... granted if you have the IBM Cf hard drive... thats diff.

how much time differential is moving electrons?

so defragging is not an issue... ;)

i'd format it since it deletes everything at one time, vs 1 photo per DELETE button push...

plus the formatting makes a file system on your camera that is most compatible... like FAT 32 vs formatting the card on a MAC using their HFS, etc...

[Scottes]

Formatting - which I learned from someone here - is MUCH faster than deleting.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Formatting in camera takes about 3 seconds..

[defordphoto]

Just like a hard drive. Your card will become fragmented and slow. You should format at least once a week. Most of us out here format the card rather than deleting images. It's faster for one thing and formatting ALWAYS keeps the card clean and defragged.

okay... CF are solid state memory, unlike a hard drive wich has moving parts.

okay... granted if you have the IBM Cf hard drive... thats diff.

how much time differential is moving electrons?

so defragging is not an issue... ;)

i'd format it since it deletes everything at one time, vs 1 photo per DELETE button push...

plus the formatting makes a file system on your camera that is most compatible... like FAT 32 vs formatting the card on a MAC using their HFS, etc...

Wrong. Fragging is an issue with CF cards. What do you think is on the hard drive on your computer? Magnetic electrons. Same difference. It does not matter whether you have a CF card or a microdrive, they both can become fragmented.

[perfectpixel]

absolutely right! files can get fragmented on HD or solid state cards (or even my analog brain for that matter).
I saw this advice someplace and realized I was doing it anyway, makes perfect sense:
Never do anything to your cards with the PC besides COPY (ie: don't move pictures, son't delete pictures).
COPY files from CF to PC
Put card back in the camera and FORMAT to make space.

I must admit I do occasionally :wink: dlete individual files while I'm chimping. But that's about it.
So.... copy with the PC, format with the camera. Simple enuff!

cheers!

[defordphoto]

Erasing a file here and there and not formatting everytime is fine. But, you should format about once a week or so. It takes awhile to frag a drive or card, but with how often we're all adding and deleting files on these little cards, they can frag faster than a large HD would. I just like formatting cause it's so freaking fast compared to deleting. ;)

[timmyquest]

Just like a hard drive. Your card will become fragmented and slow. You should format at least once a week. Most of us out here format the card rather than deleting images. It's faster for one thing and formatting ALWAYS keeps the card clean and defragged.

okay... CF are solid state memory, unlike a hard drive wich has moving parts.

okay... granted if you have the IBM Cf hard drive... thats diff.

how much time differential is moving electrons?

so defragging is not an issue... ;)

i'd format it since it deletes everything at one time, vs 1 photo per DELETE button push...

plus the formatting makes a file system on your camera that is most compatible... like FAT 32 vs formatting the card on a MAC using their HFS, etc...

Uhh, you wana make a bet?

For those who still run, or those of us who now simply remember running windows 98, you know that solid state memory fragmentation can be a huge problem without software keepign it in check.

Keeping your windows 98 machine on for much more then 2 days without a reboot was sucide due to this. Windows XP now does a fantastic job dealing with the ram but the fact remains...anything storing information will fragment until all that information is forgotten or reorginized.

[ldivinag]

Keeping your windows 98 machine on for much more then 2 days without a reboot was sucide due to this. Windows XP now does a fantastic job dealing with the ram but the fact remains...anything storing information will fragment until all that information is forgotten or reorginized.

you might be mistaking SYSTEM RESOURCES issues with windows 9x/me...

[CyberDyneSystems]

I ran a farm of Win98 machines for well over a month at a time on certain occasions..

Of course, they were only doing one thing....

[ldivinag]

Wrong. Fragging is an issue with CF cards. What do you think is on the hard drive on your computer? Magnetic electrons. Same difference. It does not matter whether you have a CF card or a microdrive, they both can become fragmented.

but in hard drive, the main thing you have to overcome is interleave issues, read/write head seek times, rotational speed... all having to do with MOVING PARTS.

with a solid state hardware like a CF card, NOTHING is moving...

it can be FRAGMENTED, but the overhead needed to overcome is almost zero...

think the RAM in your computer VS the hard drive...

[robertwgross]

Gentlemen! Gentlemen!

Although a CF card has a similar logical formatting structure as compared to a hard disk, physically it is completely different.

Yes, it is possible to get files fragmented on a CF card just like it is possible to get files fragmented on a hard disk. The difference is that the head of a hard disk might have to hop around to a bunch of different physical tracks in order to read or write the file. In a CF card, there isn't any physical head to hop. The CF controller (side the card) handles all of that, and there is virtually zero time penalty for a fragmented file... as long as everything is working normally.

Now. How many of you have ever had a CF card temporarily crap out on you? I've had a couple that have seemed to have lost some sectors, and that means that I miss out on some image files. I have some rescue software that will allow me to recover all or most of it, but the more fragmented the lost file is, the riskier it is to find the pieces and get it right.

So, CF cards can get fragmented, but it is not a huge issue as long as you can guarantee that it will function properly forever. Many of us find it easier to do the camera-format on the CF card when it is returned to the camera after visiting the computer.

Is everybody agreed now?

---Bob Gross---

[ldivinag]

I ran a farm of Win98 machines for well over a month at a time on certain occasions..

Of course, they were only doing one thing....

LOL... me too... i had this web cam setup. funny thing was, the logitech web cam driver only came for win98... no win2k (back then).

so i loaded a very small and compact web server (www.badblue.com) and webcam32 software.

when it ran, i'd say a week between reboots. and this is if i remembered. i miss the good old days when our network ran without (NOR needed) firewalls... ahhhhhh......

[defordphoto]

Bob: I was trying to avoid the physics lesson but it was bound to (have to) come out sooner or later in this thread. Yes, physically, magnetic and flash-type memory are not the same, but the long point is they both can become fragmented and it is a good idea to format your cards once in awhile if you make a habit of erasing photos when transferred rather than formatting.

[iof]

Bob: I was trying to avoid the physics lesson but it was bound to (have to) come out sooner or later in this thread. Yes, physically, magnetic and flash-type memory are not the same, but the long point is they both can become fragmented and it is a good idea to format your cards once in awhile if you make a habit of erasing photos when transferred rather than formatting.

Absolutely right! But the impact of fragmentation is much greater in MD than in Type I flash because of seek and latency times.
seek: the time it takes the r/w heads to position over a track on the disk.
latency: the time it takes to spin the start of the data under the r/w heads.

[karusel]

While reading this I was becoming more and more confused. Perhaps I'm totally wrong with this, but here it goes.

Fragmentation means that a device has to write one file in differend parts of the media, example below: each track can contain max 5 bytes of information, suppose there is a medium with available 25 bits. o's on track 1-2 is one file, I's on track 4-5 is second file, the third file is x's on tracks 2, 3, 5 - the file is made of 2 fragments (when reading, the device has to SKIP one track and several sectors, before it can read again if even for one single byte) and this disk is fragmented.
1. o o o o o
2. o o x x x
3. x x x x x
4. I I I I I
5. I I I I x

When you run a defragment utility, it orders the bits of information so that the files are in one piece and not fragmented in this case it would move the x on track 5 to the first sector of track 4.



When you delete a file, you dont actually/physically delete it, I forgot the details, however the OS just deletes the first letter of it somewhere, but the information is actually still there - that's how undelete programs (not recycle bin) can operate, they just restore the names.

An empty medium, HDD, microdrive, CF, cannot possibly be fragmented, since it does not contain any information (if it does anyway, OS ignores it, since it is not registered), and in a large number of possible 0 or 1 states, when overwritten, it does not matter if it has been a 0 or a 1 or if there were all 0 or all 1 (which is I believe what formatting does - it turns all ones to zeros, among other things) I therefore conclude the format (especially the 3 second one) does not improve performance or decrease fragmentation.

I hope I didn't loose you in this... :? :D

Also, someone please correct me if I messed up somewhere...

[thomascanty]

So.... copy with the PC, format with the camera. Simple enuff!

I must be really flirting with disaster. I've been using digital cameras with removeable media for about 8 or 9 years now and always delete the files from the computer. I hardly ever format the cards, either. Never had a problem doing it this way so far, knock on wood.

[PacAce]

OK, I maybe missing the points here of all the defrag/frag discussion but I'd just like to say my 2 cents.

1. I format the cf card everytime I need to erase the files not because of fragmentation problems but because I want to make sure the the directory structures are "clean". I don't want to risk have a corrupted directory structure that may prevent me from accessing any of the pictures I took with the camera.

2. Not too many people leave files hanging around in the CF card when they're done uploading the files to the PC. They usually end up deleting all the files out of there. If that's the case, then disk fragmentation is a moot point. Disks get fragmented when there are file in the drive (CF or hard) and they get deleted at random while other files are added at random. With all the files deleted from the drive, there are no file left to cause the fragmentation.

Karusel, you hit it right smack on the head. You are absolutely correct!

[defordphoto]

Believe what you want to believe, but CF cards CAN become fragmented (period). When a file is deleted there is a byte that is changed. The file is still on the card.

When new files are written, the OS looks for blank space to write to. When it cannot find blank space it looks for the beginning of a deleted file to overwrite. But, more than likely, the new file is not the exact same size as the old file so there are scattered sectors left over. The next file written to the card follows the same process.

Eventually you have all these scattered, left over sectors that the OS will eventually try to use leaving some files fragmented across the drive. Yes. CF cards will read even these fragmented sectors quite quickly since they do not read them magnetically, but in these days of measuring freaking rulers you'd think everyone would want their card to be as fast as possible.

Maybe not.

Like I said before the main reason I format everytime because it's just so much faster and when out on a shoot I have my menu set to format.

[Webster]

Actually, whether you format the card or delete the files, the files are still there. Otherwise rescue software would not be able to recover the files.

[defordphoto]

Actually, whether you format the card or delete the files, the files are still there. Otherwise rescue software would not be able to recover the files.

That is true too! :lol:

[JZaun]

Time to think.

Formating a hard drive removes the directory.. There is no recovery of data after a format. Deleating files only deletes them form the directory so recovery software can rebuild the directory and recover the files. Now is a CF card the same,,,(I do not know but I would think so)

JZaun

[karusel]

JZaun, ever heard of unformat?

RFMsports: your explanation didn't convince me one bit. Upon deletion one byte is changed, true. The file is still on the card. Kind of true. The full truth is, that the file can be recovered, but as far as OS knows, the file is not there, it simply ignores whatever is written and overwrites it without discrimination. If you still think otherwise, tell me by what key does OS discriminate diferend sectors/bytes of a file / multiple files that have been made invisible for OS.

[defordphoto]

JZaun, ever heard of unformat?

RFMsports: your explanation didn't convince me one bit. Upon deletion one byte is changed, true. The file is still on the card. Kind of true. The full truth is, that the file can be recovered, but as far as OS knows, the file is not there, it simply ignores whatever is written and overwrites it without discrimination. If you still think otherwise, tell me by what key does OS discriminate diferend sectors/bytes of a file / multiple files that have been made invisible for OS.

It doesn't make any difference to me if you delete your files or format your card. I am not a computer science major so I cannot explain every physical aspect of a hard disk or compact flash card. They can become fragmented. That I do know for sure.

[karusel]

I am no expert either, I just think my theory has more sense. If I'm wrong I will gladly accept your statement as true, but someone will need to present a good logical explanation. So if we have an expert here, now would be a good time to come forward.... :wink:

[robertwgross]

My message of March 19.

---Bob Gross---

[defordphoto]

My message of March 19.

---Bob Gross---

Ditto. Which is basically what I have been saying the whole time.

[Red]

Oh dear! What a mess. I'll stick in my pro(grammer) 2 cents worth in the hope to clear this up and call a truce. And to help out those that have been reading but not understanding.

Think of a harddrive or CF card as a bookcase. Lots of books on it, all different sizes. These represent files or images. Over time random books are removed (images deleted) leaving spaces.
When a new book needs to be added (new image taken) it needs to find a space, but if the space isn't big enough the book is torn in half so that it fits. The first half gets a new back cover and is called Volume 1, and the second half gets a new front cover and is called Volume 2. It then looks for a space for Volume 2. If the next space isn't big enough, you get Volume 3, etc, until it fits.

Now, the books fit, and you (the OS) can still find them, but all these extra covers means there's less space on the book shelf.

Defragging is like squashing all the books up together and rearranging books so that all the volumes are together and those extra covers can be removed

[defordphoto]

ROFLMAO. Yeah Red, quite a mess eh? I think the majority understands what defragging is, they just can't grasp the concept that it can happen to silicon.

[JZaun]

Formating in a camera sets up the CF card for that individual camera's Firmware to be able to write on it. The format may not be usable by other cameras. Formating re-writes the entire card.

Try this, write the CF card full with Jpeg small/normal files. They are aprox .4 mb each.. Go to the middle of the CF card and erase several files not in a row. . If you erase enought jpeg small/normal files you may be able to write a jpeg large (2.4mb) . If you do, it will be a fragmented file as will be written in several places. There could also be some unused space at that time. The firmware will try to use that un-used space but until enough space is made available for the file type you are trying to write ( Jpeg, raw, etc, 100 iso/800 iso) you will not be able to use it. Delete enough files and you get some use.

If you delete all files or format, the entire card is ready to be written to again. NO frags here.

Recovery software may work after a del if you haven't written over a files space that was deleted.

Unformat will not unformat if you have re-written to the disk after format.. The same with defrag.

Last but not least. recovery software for a individual CF card is meant to recover files should the card go bad. It will not recover after format..

Read note in 10d manual bottom of page 119, middle of page 161




OK Argue away
:D
JZaun

[Cadwell]

Actually whether it is silicon, spinning platters or a RAM disc in magnetic core memory (anyone around old enough to remember that?) is irrelevant. Fragmentation is a fact of life with the doMeSDOS (kills all known PCs – Dead!) FAT16 file system. By extension this is also a fact of life with FAT32 and NTFS. As long as the cameras use this “industry standard” file system for picture storage they can and will run into fragmentation issues.

The media type makes a difference in only one area; the effect of the fragmentation. Solid state media access times are the same regardless of the location of the data block being fetched and there is no penalty incurred in non-linear access so fetching data from a number of blocks scattered through the cards address space will not cause a noticeable degradation in performance over data held in a linear sequence of blocks. Microdrives have to move a mechanical disc head to the correct track and sector. That takes a significant amount of time so a noticeable drop in read/write performance will occur.

[karusel]

Right, can we finally agree, that if a card is empty there is NO fragmentation? After that we can logically agree that there is NO difference between full deletion and format of the card.

[defordphoto]

Right, can we finally agree, that if a card is empty there is NO fragmentation? After that we can logically agree that there is NO difference between full deletion and format of the card.

LOL. No. There will be no fragmentation on an empty card because there are no active files on it. However, once you begin writing to it it can become fragmented if the FAT is not fresh. The ONLY way to freshen the FAT is to format.

The main danger to fragmentation is loss of data or damaged data due to the FAT becoming "confused".

[karusel]

Now this I do not understand. :?

[defordphoto]

From the Jan/Feb issues of Digital Photo Pro where they discuss whether you should/can format your cards on your computer or in the camera they touch on a few points that apply here:

When a memory card is erased, no image files are destroyed or removed from the card. Erasing only removes location and file indentification data that tells the computer (camera) where the file is located. Once this data is removed the camera knows it can overwrite the existing data. When new photos are saved, the original is lost because it is overwritten.

Formatting is a more intense sort of erasure. In this function (different from erasing) the camera (or computer) completely changes the directory structure (FAT) of the card.

Sally Clemens of Olympus says, "After you finish downloading images to your computer, it is always a good idea to reformat, not just erase, your memory card in the camera. This clears away all of the images and unnecessary data fragments, and puts your card into something similar to a "right out of the box" condition in terms of recording new photos."

Tim Grey of DPP Magazine agrees, "Reformatting in the camera causes the card to be re-initialized, helping to avoid problems with the FAT data becoming corrupted over time."

Do you have to reformat every time or is erasing okay for everyday card usage? Canon's Rudy Winston suggests that "in normal use, erasing a card in-camera typically works adequately and can be done by most users repeatedly without incident. Formatting should be done perhaps once a month for amateurs and once a week or two for serious, high-volume shooters." Winston says that formatting is especially important if you notice any problems with the card, or if it seems "buggy" or is slowing down in operation. "There's no harm that I have seen in formatting as mush as the shooter wants to," he adds.

Courtesy link to Digital Photo Pro: http://www.digitalphotopro.com/

[PacAce]

So if we have an expert here, now would be a good time to come forward.... :wink:

It doesn't matter whether an expert steps up or not because people will believe what they want to believe.


Formatting is a more intense sort of erasure. In this function (different from erasing) the camera (or computer) completely changes the directory structure (FAT) of the card.
...
Tim Grey of DPP Magazine agrees, "Reformatting in the camera causes the card to be re-initialized, helping to avoid problems with the FAT data becoming corrupted over time."


I rest my case.

[colliewalker1]

Just like a hard drive. Your card will become fragmented and slow. You should format at least once a week. Most of us out here format the card rather than deleting images. It's faster for one thing and formatting ALWAYS keeps the card clean and defragged.
This is a post from earlier in the year, that concerns a subject on which I would like some clarification i.e formatting CF cards.

I have read a number of postings on the subject but am still hazy about it.


For example - "Just like a Hard Drive your card will become fragmented and slow". I can understand that problem when a hard drive/CF card has a mixture of files and spaces where additions and deletions have taken place, so that accessing any particular file may require a search for its scattered parts. But - if all files have been deleted how can that apply when new files are added and before any other uninstalls take place? Also a hard rive accumulates all sorts of uneeded dross so that occasional reformatting is beneficial - but what a ghastly chore!
How does formatting an unused card or a card used, but with all files uninstalled, help?
Members of forums like this are camera users who take their hobby seriously(too seriously at times?) but what about the growing millions of 'casual' digicam users who will never give formatting a thought and whose cards will be continually have files deleted from /added to them - without ever formatting - what fate awaits them?!

[defordphoto]

This thread fully explains (several times over) why you should format your storage media and my quote answers all your questions. Yes, many new digital camera owners are not aware of these facts and that's why forums such as this one will teach you these little tricks and tips.

Also, the reason many of us on these forums take photography extremely seriously is that a large number of us are professional or semi-professional photographers and thus it pays the bills and puts food on our tables. That, we take very seriously.

Hobbyists and casual snapshooters, apparently like yourself, can hopefully learn from the professionals and improve your shooting skills. The medium of a forum allows that type of exchange that was never available when many of us were in our early years of learning this art.

Welcome to the forum.

[Mills]

Well Said Jim. Things have a way of getting interesting around here lately, don't they?? Bottom Line, format in camera each time. It is what I learned to do here from people I trust and it has proven to be the right thing to do.

[CyberDyneSystems]

RE; Formatting CF Cards;

To quote Mel Brooks...

"It couldn't hurt"

[defordphoto]

I should have thought of that CDS. Sure would ahve saved a bunch of typing! :cool:

[Ballen Photo]

Oh dear! What a mess. I'll stick in my pro(grammer) 2 cents worth in the hope to clear this up and call a truce. And to help out those that have been reading but not understanding.

Think of a harddrive or CF card as a bookcase. Lots of books on it, all different sizes. These represent files or images. Over time random books are removed (images deleted) leaving spaces.
When a new book needs to be added (new image taken) it needs to find a space, but if the space isn't big enough the book is torn in half so that it fits. The first half gets a new back cover and is called Volume 1, and the second half gets a new front cover and is called Volume 2. It then looks for a space for Volume 2. If the next space isn't big enough, you get Volume 3, etc, until it fits.

Now, the books fit, and you (the OS) can still find them, but all these extra covers means there's less space on the book shelf.

Defragging is like squashing all the books up together and rearranging books so that all the volumes are together and those extra covers can be removedThanks Red, This is my basic understanding of "Formatting" any kind of drive.
While I'm certainly not and expert on this subject either, I dont see the harm in formatting my media right after making sure my files were copied succesfully to my HD. This gives me the assurance that my cards recognize my camera every time.
I dont like deleting files one at a time, as I read about people having difficulty with their cards after doing so. I have NEVER heard of this sort of problem after formatting the card in the camera. I figure, Why take the chance when formatting the card is so quick and easy?:rolleyes:
-Bruce

[jay24k]

I never format my card because it deletes pretty quickly anyway. Ram is slightly different though. It is cleared anyway so the only time you would format it is while the pc is running however I would just rather reboot although there is software out there for that. For a flash card, I can't imagine you needing to defrag unless you have pictures on there constantly.

Fragmenting is mainly caused by adding/removing of data while data is still present.

For example, I have a room that will fit 12 feet of boxes. I place a 3 foot box and then a 2 foot box and then a 4 foot box. Well I remove the 2 foot and now I want to add a 5 foot box. So I have to split the box into a 2 and a 3 thus fragmenting the file. Now it takes longer to retrieve information. Since it is always deleted, how can a drive be fragmented? This is why Unix is usually better with file structure over windows.

Just my take.

[Bodog]

CDS! HELP! We have a new XFactor!!!!
JimE

[defordphoto]

ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL.

Geeze. This horse was long dead until collie dug it up. :rolleyes:

[dsze]

So, how does formatting a card on the computer play into this then? As a general rule, everytime I transfer files from a card to the PC, I then format the card on the PC, put back in camera and format in-camera.

-daniel

[defordphoto]

So, how does formatting a card on the computer play into this then? As a general rule, everytime I transfer files from a card to the PC, I then format the card on the PC, put back in camera and format in-camera.

-daniel

Read the thread. Treat your CF exactly like an HD. It will fragment exactly the same way.

[edsarkiss]

fragmentation on a solid-state CF card is a non-issue in terms of performance or reliability. on a microdrive, you will see performance degradation and additional mechanism wear, due to additional drive head seeks.

personally, i always format in the camera after copying images to my computer via a card reader. it's faster than "erase all", and gives me a warm fuzzy feeling.

- IAACE (I Am A Computer Engineer)

[defordphoto]

fragmentation on a solid-state CF card is a non-issue in terms of performance or reliability.

Yes, very minimal on performance since there are no physical head seeks, but reliability-wise it will eventually become an issue. We have seen time and again people losing photos due to fragmented cards.

[Bodryn]

I took several thousand pictures before reading a book which strongly advised formatting the CF card each time. I never lost any pictures, but now I always format the CF card. My take on it is, it's good insurance. I tend to think that when a card is out of the camera, maybe the odd static charge could affect the file allocation data on the card, or a chance magnetic field might affect it. But I'm no engineer, just an old PC programmer from the Apple II days, when bit decay was common and I felt lucky to have a box of 5 1/2 inch floppies with which to run my mouseless $1500 Apple IIe.

[dsze]

RFM: I re-read the post and its very possible I missed it, but I don't see anywhere or anyone describing how it is different to format in PC as opposed to just in-camera format. Your info from DPP mag. starts to touch on it, but doesn't really say what the difference is and whether or not a PC format is necessary or if camera-format is always good enough. If I missed it, my appologies.

-daniel

[defordphoto]

Daniel: In camera formatting is fine. However, if you want to start with a "clean" card, as when you're switching cards from on camera to another, format on the PC. Otherwise your numbering might get hosed. If formatting on the PC, then after inserting the card, format in the camera and you'll be good to go.

However, technically speaking, a card is not 100% clean unless it is fully wiped by a utility that performs that function. And if someone wanted to get hyper-technical about it, once a card/drive/floppy/whatever is used, it will/can never be clean again.

But, for our purposes here, ignore the techno-babble in paragraph two. ;)

[dsze]

...gotcha. Thanks. Sounds like my workflow anyway. I dump all files to PC and then format on PC and then format in-camera, everytime. I had a corrupted card at a wedding once and after spending the entire next day recovering the files I find it very easy to format every time I fill a card. ;) Maybe once in awhile I'll also start to use Norton to wipe my cards.

-daniel

[defordphoto]

You're welcome.

But, I don't think you need to go that far. For the most part (99.8% of the time) just formatting in the camera should suffice since it uses the same basic routine as a PC does. The OS in your camera is a version of PC-DOS, from what I have read.

[Jon]

One reason to format in-camera is that some combinations of computer OS, camera OS and card size will collide. For instance, I've re-formatted a 1 GB Kingston CF under WXP (specifying FAT16 and Quick Format). On placing it into my D60, I got "card not recognized" and had to format it in camera as well. But at that point, it was good to go. I haven't tried extensive testing of other card/computer/camera combinations, but this has made me leery of relying on computer-based reformatting. It's probably related to creation of things like Recycle Bin or other OS-related housekeeping files.

However since I move cards around and may move them between cameras, I'll reformat in the computer and then reformat them in camera to keep from hosing my file numbering systems. The one thing that a quick re-formatting does, which deleting files (even all the files) doesn't, is to wipe the root directory; with that gone, the camera's forced to start over in re-creating a \DCIM folder anew. If you delete all the files from the card after downloading, you haven't done anything to the directory structure, so it's still cluttered with entries for the "deleted" files. The W9x/NT Windows operating systems will try to leave these entries behind for file recovery purposes (until they run out of room). Whether your camera's file manager does likewise, I can't say; haven't studied it.

If you look at "format" options on your computer, you'll see two choices for FAT-type removable media: full format, which tries to re-write the full root file structure including File Allocation Table (where a map of file locations is stored) and root directory (The rest of the disk is verified), and "Quick" format, which just wipes the root directory and FAT but doesan't verify the rest of the disk. Note that the disk surface (containing old files) is only verified, not overwritten; it's this that makes "unformatting" a disk possible (although not a certainty).