Wedding Photography

[KiwiRob]

A question for the wedding guys out here, what lens combination do you recommend for weddings, I'm going to be taking photos at my sisters wedding next weekend. Are there any good sites with hints/tips for wedding photography. I'm not the main photographer so it isn't a problem if my photos aren't amazing but I'd like to do a good job.

Any help would be appreciated. :D

[cgratti]

A question for the wedding guys out here, what lens combination do you recommend for weddings, I'm going to be taking photos at my sisters wedding next weekend. Are there any good sites with hints/tips for wedding photography. I'm not the main photographer so it isn't a problem if my photos aren't amazing but I'd like to do a good job.

Any help would be appreciated. :D

Grab Aprils Popular Photography magazine, they have a tips on wedding photography section this month... Some good info in it....

[robertwgross]

It seems like we just went over this.

A mid-length zoom lens, like 28-105 or 28-135. An external flash unit mounted on a flash bracket. A sturdy tripod. Plenty of CF memory. Shoot RAW.

---Bob Gross---

[MediaMagic]

It seems like we just went over this.

---Bob Gross---

Does the sun rise every morning? At least we have consistency.

[robertwgross]

Does the sun rise every morning? At least we have consistency.

Obviously you have never visited the North or South Poles in winter.

At the poles, they forget what the sun even looked like.

---Bob Gross---

[robertwgross]

I just got a wedding surprise. My partner and I have a wedding shoot booked for tomorrow, and he has been doing the talking with the couple. Just now he informed me that the groom is 6'4" tall, and the bride is 5'4" tall.

Now we are scrambling around trying to figure out what we are going to do with lenses and posing to try to avoid accenting the height difference. This will be interesting.

---Bob Gross---

[MediaMagic]

Does the sun rise every morning? At least we have consistency.

Obviously you have never visited the North or South Poles in winter.

At the poles, they forget what the sun even looked like.

---Bob Gross---

Lol, true, I've never been to the poles, but, the sun still rises in the celestial morning. Night just happens to be six months long. Maybe we need to host the site at one of the poles, then we'd only see the syndicated question reruns twice a year.

[KiwiRob]

I'm planning on shooting colour on the digital and B&W on the EOS 30, should be interesting, I bought the popular photography magazine and it has some pretty useful tips, who knows maybe if my shots come out well I could moonlight as a wedding photographer on weekends (maybe I'm jumping the gun a little here).

[Biko]

Check out what you can and can't photograph with the registrar/person doing the service, I was told no flash pics of wedding service until was told so. I used my other camera ixus on video and discreetly filmed small parts of the service, and other things that happened - car leaving champagne popping etc.

I put all the short segments together and it turns out its their favourite!

[DaveG]

A question for the wedding guys out here, what lens combination do you recommend for weddings, I'm going to be taking photos at my sisters wedding next weekend. Are there any good sites with hints/tips for wedding photography. I'm not the main photographer so it isn't a problem if my photos aren't amazing but I'd like to do a good job.

Any help would be appreciated. :D

First off make sure that the pro shooter is happy with you taking photos at this wedding. I've heard horror stories about pro's packing up their bags and leaving a wedding when someone else started shooting. I've shot over 150 weddings and I don't see how they get away with it, but some seem to.

Anyway if it's cool with them try to do shots that they aren't. If she's in the aisle then maybe you should be in the choir loft. If she's using a Hassleblad from the back then maybe you could be using a very fast lens in the front of the church.

My point is to add some seasoning to the pro's soup. You don't have to worry about getting that shot of the bride and groom coming down the aisle together, she does. So you could concentrate on the bride's mom's face as the B&G walk by.

I would use the fastest lenses I could get my hands on. IS would be a good idea as well. I wouldn't use flash because the minister/priest may have forbidden it. In any case you'll have flash fall off and it looks horribly unnatural.

If you have any desire to become a pro wedding photographer use the day to watch the pro. Why does she stand THERE? How does she speak to the clients. Try to get inside her head. But don't stand at her elbow trying to take the same image she is. It's redundent, not quite as good, and will piss her off.

[dennykyser]

Very good suggestions

[robertwgross]

First off make sure that the pro shooter is happy with you taking photos at this wedding. I've heard horror stories about pro's packing up their bags and leaving a wedding when someone else started shooting. I've shot over 150 weddings and I don't see how they get away with it, but some seem to.


They get away with it if that is written into the contract.

I've seen some wedding contracts that were harsh and bullet-proof. I've seen others that were easy and flexible. What kind you use depends on what kind of equipment you are using and how you feel threatened by amateurs around.

For example, on one wedding, the groom hired a local pro photographer to do the major shooting for the ceremony only. Then the groom asked me, as a friend from 3000 miles away, to do the major shooting of everything else. The pro photographer had his lights optically coupled in the chapel, so if anybody else had been firing off flashes, then his lights would have been upset. I understood that, so I shot with available light in the chapel, and there was no problem.

On one wedding, the bride hired a local pro photographer to do the major shooting for the ceremony only. Then the bride asked me, as an uncle from 2000 miles away, to shoot ... around the pro. The pro had some continuous lights up, and then some strobes. I simply used the continuous lighting and stayed behind the pro.

If a pro is greedy, then he gets it written into the contract that his prints will be the only ones shot or available. If amateurs are warned not to shoot, then this works. However, many pros don't get this greedy. My partner and I simply tell the bride and groom what will get in our way and what will not get in our way. If my partner's camera goes "click" and then mine goes "click" a second later, then we don't give a damn if somebody's Instamatic goes "click" after that.

---Bob Gross---

[DaveG]

First off make sure that the pro shooter is happy with you taking photos at this wedding. I've heard horror stories about pro's packing up their bags and leaving a wedding when someone else started shooting. I've shot over 150 weddings and I don't see how they get away with it, but some seem to.


They get away with it if that is written into the contract.

I've seen some wedding contracts that were harsh and bullet-proof. I've seen others that were easy and flexible. What kind you use depends on what kind of equipment you are using and how you feel threatened by amateurs around.

For example, on one wedding, the groom hired a local pro photographer to do the major shooting for the ceremony only. Then the groom asked me, as a friend from 3000 miles away, to do the major shooting of everything else. The pro photographer had his lights optically coupled in the chapel, so if anybody else had been firing off flashes, then his lights would have been upset. I understood that, so I shot with available light in the chapel, and there was no problem.

On one wedding, the bride hired a local pro photographer to do the major shooting for the ceremony only. Then the bride asked me, as an uncle from 2000 miles away, to shoot ... around the pro. The pro had some continuous lights up, and then some strobes. I simply used the continuous lighting and stayed behind the pro.

If a pro is greedy, then he gets it written into the contract that his prints will be the only ones shot or available. If amateurs are warned not to shoot, then this works. However, many pros don't get this greedy. My partner and I simply tell the bride and groom what will get in our way and what will not get in our way. If my partner's camera goes "click" and then mine goes "click" a second later, then we don't give a damn if somebody's Instamatic goes "click" after that.

---Bob Gross---

My perspective is that all the aunts and uncles WANT to take snap shots during
the wedding and the pro should do everything to facilitate this. From a purely
"greedy" perspective I'd rather have a good relationship with the B&G and
hopefully get some great referrals from a wedding. The very few proof prints
that I wouldn't sell to Uncle George isn’t worth the hassle or the bad feelings I’d
create.

As far as the contract goes, it may well be bulletproof, but it's unlikely that the
photographer is. I've been to weddings where the shooter wouldn't get out alive
if they pulled a stunt like that. I really mean it, someone would attack the
photographer. Hey it's not right, but that's what I meant when I said that I don't
know how they get away with it.

I do try to convince the B&G that it's in their interest to shut down Uncle George
at times. When I set up the first group shot, I turn around to the wall of Uncle
George's all armed with point and shoots, and invite them to take shots of the
groups but only after I take two myself. I just tell the audience that if they are
moving around in the background then the subjects may look at them as I shoot,
resulting in the B&G wasting money. In most case this is all it takes, but if they
insist on being morons (and it happens) I get to remind the B&G later, should
there be any complaints.

I also insist (well beg) that the B&G and I be alone in the park when I'm doing
portraits of the two of them. This is mostly to get rid of his friends. As most
photographer's know, the friends will try to "help" by being as stupid as they
possibly can. The groom is embarrassed and wants these shots to be over as
quickly as possible. I just say to the B&G that if there's no one there but us then
these shots will be 100% better. I also say that it’s not just the guys. Sometimes
it’s mom. Sometimes it’s Uncle Charley. Once it was the hired driver (we do
have to get them to the reception) and he just wouldn’t shut up. So he got to
wait by the car (my idea).

This "get rid of everyone" especially pertains to the video shooter. If it's just
Uncle George I wouldn't mind so much, except that he won't shut up either. But
if it's a pro I would rather not provide him with an instructional video on how to
shoot portraits in the park. I also would ask that the "other still shooter" be gone
as well. I know that there's no rocket science to this and I'm pretty much always
willing to share what I know about this stuff. But I want it to be my decision.

But I would make it clear to the B&G that I'm not sharing the wedding with
another pro or pro like shooter if they just showed up on the day of a wedding.
How is this going to mess up the time line? Do I sit around while they do half of
the groups? Who poses things? The two basic conflicts of wedding photography
come to the fore here. The bride wants lots of photos but will give you no time.
A second shooter will exacerbate this to ridiculous levels.

Sure if it's pre arranged then that's OK. I assume that the local pro knew and
agreed to do their part of the wedding and that you were going to do the rest.

I just recently agreed to shoot a wedding where I will only do the portraits of the
B&G at the park and a friend will do the rest. It’s OK, we are all on the same
page and it should be fun. But it has to be planned.

[CanonUser]

This is a clause in my contract and I make it a point to explain to the B&G each and every clause in the contract.

"Exclusive Photographer – RVP shall be the exclusive photographer / videographer retained by the Client for the purpose of photographing and video taping the wedding, and all other photographic sittings specified herein. Family and friends of the Client shall be permitted to photograph the wedding and all other photographic sittings specified herein as long as they shall not interfere with the RVP’s duties and do not photograph poses arranged by the RVP. Family and friends of the Client shall not be permitted to operate their photographic and video equipments if said equipments interfere with RVP’s ability to complete it’s duty. It is the Client’s responsibility to provide RVP a working environment without any interference."

I explain that the interference part includes flash or radio equipment that could cross path with our wireless triggers, movements that cause distraction for the subjects being photographed, unwanted attention for the subject being photographed, and multiple photographers who all say "look here...and 1..2..3..". I tell my customer that I do want to get the formal and family portraits done quickly because I also want to get the photos of the cake, the table setting, the floral arrangements, the favors, and all other unique touches that the B&G worked so hard to create or paid for. I usually asked the B&G to explain our dilema to the guests themselves to avoid any misunderstanding or ill-feeling, and the couple often accept this responsibility readily.
On the other hand, while video taping a wedding, the hired photographer told me to work away from him because he doesn't want his work copied. Huh? Perhaps he had invented some new and copyrighted poses that I haven't seen before? The thing is, he often strayed to where I was because that's where the actions were! This guy also stepped on everyone with a camera at the wedding as well. After the wedding, the customer told me that the stills I took for the video montage looked better than this photographer's picture, I ended up with a nice order for the stills WITHOUT any solicitation on my part. I also got the booking for another 2 weddings from the B&G parents for their other marrying children.

Regards,
Alan

[DaveG]

This is a clause in my contract and I make it a point to explain to the B&G each and every clause in the contract.

"Exclusive Photographer – RVP shall be the exclusive photographer / videographer retained by the Client for the purpose of photographing and video taping the wedding, and all other photographic sittings specified herein. Family and friends of the Client shall be permitted to photograph the wedding and all other photographic sittings specified herein as long as they shall not interfere with the RVP’s duties and do not photograph poses arranged by the RVP. Family and friends of the Client shall not be permitted to operate their photographic and video equipments if said equipments interfere with RVP’s ability to complete it’s duty. It is the Client’s responsibility to provide RVP a working environment without any interference."

I explain that the interference part includes flash or radio equipment that could cross path with our wireless triggers, movements that cause distraction for the subjects being photographed, unwanted attention for the subject being photographed, and multiple photographers who all say "look here...and 1..2..3..". I tell my customer that I do want to get the formal and family portraits done quickly because I also want to get the photos of the cake, the table setting, the floral arrangements, the favors, and all other unique touches that the B&G worked so hard to create or paid for. I usually asked the B&G to explain our dilema to the guests themselves to avoid any misunderstanding or ill-feeling, and the couple often accept this responsibility readily.
On the other hand, while video taping a wedding, the hired photographer told me to work away from him because he doesn't want his work copied. Huh? Perhaps he had invented some new and copyrighted poses that I haven't seen before? The thing is, he often strayed to where I was because that's where the actions were! This guy also stepped on everyone with a camera at the wedding as well. After the wedding, the customer told me that the stills I took for the video montage looked better than this photographer's picture, I ended up with a nice order for the stills WITHOUT any solicitation on my part. I also got the booking for another 2 weddings from the B&G parents for their other marrying children.

Regards,
Alan

I'd like to make a number of comments:

First in a competitive situation I doubt if your contract disclaimer is the first or the 12th thing that you mention. It'll be in the contract but in the fine point section. It may well be the B&G's responsibility to read this but they won't.

If I was competing against you, and I found out that you did go over every paragraph of the contract, I would mention something like, "Gee there's one guy who has all this legal garblygook in their contract. It seems very complicated." just to create doubt in their mind. Besides even if you sign them up, it'll be months before the wedding and as much as I personally would like to think that their wedding pictures are in the forefront of their mind, they really aren't. Are you then prepared to have a legal debate with the bride on her wedding day? I'm not.

The key to me on the wedding day is to solve problems not create them. I also think that you should bring the B&G into any potential problems as soon as they arise. If the minister won't let me shoot during the ceremony (and many won't) I rat him out to the B&G as soon as I can. If the videographer is getting in the way, I point it out to the B&G. If I think that one of the guest is distracting them I mention it. Once again make it their problem.

I do have a problem with the videographer hanging about.

Go right back to the beginning, and ask yourself about why the B&G hired you? What do you bring to the table that someone else doesn't? One assumes it's the unique "look" that you bring to your images.

If you think that all wedding poses (and perhaps more importantly how you GET the B&G into those poses) are the same then the buyer should just go to the cheapest supplier of this commodity that they can find. I mean corn is corn, and wheat is wheat, but I reject the idea that MY photography is YOUR photography. So do I fear that the videographer will steal my ideas? Not really, I'm more concerend that they'll get in the way. But I also see no need to provide them with an instructional video to train their staff. Would you invite a comptetitor to videotape you videotaping a wedding? Why not?

[CanonUser]

Dave,
I usually email the contract to the client along with a questionaire regarding the wedding details (names, addresses, contact, special attententions, etc.). I ask them to review and prepare a list of question that they bring to cantract signing. Before both party sign anything, I take them point by point through the contract in plain English and ask them if everything seems fair. Only then, we would sign and accept the binding contract. I explain to the customer that the numerous legal clauses are there to protect not only myself but to guarranty the client that they will receive my service at the highest quality as well. The "garblygook" ensures that the client's $3-5K pay for my video/photography service is well spent. Thus far, I have not got a rejection or a request to have any of the clause modified yet. Beside, without the "garblygook", if the client contest anything to their charge card vendor, all you got will be "garblygook" for the time you put in at their wedding. There are actual wedding where the B&G hired multiple studios to shoot and screwed everyone afterward. How about the B&G split right after the honeymoon but before picking up the photos? Hmmm..."garblygook" sounds darn good in these cases!
Talking about creating troubles. My own wedding was ruined by the bickering photographer and videographer. Thus, when I work on a shoot, I leave my ego at home and concentrate on giving a first rate service. That's why I insist on putting everything on the table, advising the client of what to to or expect on the big day, reminding them to smile or relax, keeping them laughing, be nice to the guest, staying out of the videographer/photographer shots, and smile at every st*pid remark thrown at me. I am both a videographer and a photographer (my studio split 50/50 on both services), and believe me, it's usually the photographer that gets into the camcorder shot (once the camcorder is on the tripod, it stays put, and the long zoom lens does the works!) and makes the regrettable comments. Though, both camp has it's own bad apples.
Last thing, hit Barnes & Noble and you'll see all the poses you want to see. The trick is to match the right pose to the the subject in a particular scene or lighting condition. That ability to analyze and select the right pose is the hallmark of a great photographer and separate s/he from the run-of-the-mill. If you're blessed with such a talent, then no matter how people try to copy your look, you'll still be The King of the Hill, On Top of the Heap! Like you, I have a "garblygook" of a clause abpout being the Exclusive Photographer/Videographer in the contract beacause I want to work efficiently and not because of competition. A wedding a family event, you can't stop people from taking photo or video, so why pull your hair out and make a scene? In the spirit of your word "to solve problems not create them", I even allow photo and video by family members in my "garblygook". Being nice and flexible gave me more leads than any marketing ploy available out there.

Regards,
Alan

[robertwgross]

Today's wedding shoot went off without major problems. I was wrong about the B&G heights. The groom was 6'7" and the bride was 5'7". That made it interesting.

When we got to the reception hall, I was still on the first set of AA batteries in my 550EX flash. The green then red ready lights came up quick, so I fired off a test shot. The flash went off, but the shot looked to be 4-5 stops underexposed. Hmmm. I checked the cable connections and tried again. Same thing. Switch off and switch on and tried again. Same thing. I kept trying different tests and nothing worked right.

I put in a different set of AA batteries (probably not new), and tried again. Same thing. Hmmm. Then another different set (probably not new) and got the same thing.

Finally I cracked open a new package of AA batteries for the flash and tried again. VOILA!

Apparently just because the ready light comes on does not mean that it is ready. So now I will need to monitor my flash usage more closely to predict when this weak battery situation will return.

Fortunately, I was able to get this done during the lull before the reception shooting began in earnest. Otherwise, that could have been awkward.

---Bob Gross---

[G3]

My clause is not a bunch of legalese or "gobbledygook". It simply states that photography while I'm working, by either pro or amateur photographers, is not allowed. There are several reasons for it, but I don't enforce it strictly (or at all, for that matter) unless there is a problem. I've never had another pro show up, but if I did that would be a completely different situation and I would enforce the clause.

I have run into situations where people will actually get in front of me with their point and shoot camera or video camera. The problem here is that it can easily cause you to miss a critical shot that can't be recreated. I've had problems with people's flashes going off at the same time as mine, people's flashes triggering my slaves, having to try to crowd in with 4 or 5 other people with cameras, etc.

I have had people standing right beside me firing flashes at my set-up shots, crowding in beside me trying to get the same shot, etc. On the surface, that might not seem like a big deal, other than being very irritating and distracting. But, the fact is, Uncle George is going to try to convince B&G that they don't need to buy your prints because "I got the same shots for free."

Most times there really isn't an issue, and there is no reason to say anything. If there is someone that is getting in my way, though...Well, I have a job to do and a contract to fulfill. I'll go and ask the Best Man to say something to Uncle George because he is interfering with me getting my job done. I'd rather tick Uncle George off than to tick off B&G because I didn't get all the shots they asked for. I try not to ever bother B&G over things related to the photography because they already have enough to worry about...I try to introduce myself to the Best Man and the Maid of Honor and the Coordinator if there is one and remember their names and faces and get them to help me.

[CanonUser]

I shoot RAW, f-5.6, 1/30-60, ISO400 so a set of AA in my 550EX goes quite a bit. Though I swap them immediately if the cycling time seems to be longer than normal. It's probably a waste, but it's better than missing a crucial shot. I have a Sigma DG Super on order, and hopefully, it'll add to the flash photos.
I'm easy, however, I will not work if there is another shooter shows up next to me during the formal portraits. I had shots where the subjects were looking every which way because there were more than one camera pointing at them. I had "Uncle Bob" rearranged my pose because of certain relationship between subjects being photographed. I had family members who thought they can set up a better pose than I do, s/he would stand behind me and started to give verbal instructions to my subjects on where to look or how to pose. At this point, I usually tell the couple that the distraction is dragging out the session and I wouldn't have enough time to do the detail shots and a little reminder about our agreement at the contract signing. The couple often get someone to be the gatekeeper immediately after that. The only problem I had with the videographer is their tungsten hot lights. If I drag the shutter for the ambient light, then I'd have a serious mix lighting problem on hand. That's why when I shoot video, I use a daylight bulb bounced off an umbrella, the Bride'd look nice & soft while the I keep the still shooter happy.

Regards,
Alan

[robertwgross]

The only problem I had with the videographer is their tungsten hot lights.

I hear you on that one. One wedding in September had a two-person still photo team and a two-person video team. Everybody was tripping over everybody else's lighting. I had these little beams of warm light spilling into the white wedding cake shot.

Then one of the video guys sat down next to me and started asking me twenty questions about the still photo business. Frankly, that was none of his business.

---Bob Gross---

[martcol]

....trying to figure out what we are going to do... ...to try to avoid accenting the height difference.
---Bob Gross---

Good luck Bob, I would like to see some of what you come up with.

Martin

[TonyKInTexas]

Or Portland, OR in winter. :roll:

Does the sun rise every morning? At least we have consistency.

Obviously you have never visited the North or South Poles in winter.

At the poles, they forget what the sun even looked like.

---Bob Gross---

[robertwgross]

Good luck Bob, I would like to see some of what you come up with.


It's done. The CD-ROM has been made and delivered. And the couple paid.

---Bob Gross---

[dj007]

To try and answer your original question.

The lens you choose will depend somewhat on your style and camera.

If your camera does not have a full frame sensor (like the 1Ds) than you will need somewhat wider angle lenses to achieve the same crop/fill as an equivelant 35mm.

Also if you are the type to stay out on the edges and do photojournalism style then you would need a longer lens(70mm or more) than someone who gets right in close to the action (maybe 24-70) in the end you will likely need a few to cover the range you shoot. (I recently went through the data on all my weddings from last year to help me choose my next lens, and was very surprised to see how many far shots I tended to take! but that's just me.) most of my shots were 70mm or shorter however I already had good glass in this range, I was just surprised at the number of shots I had taken with my lesser quality longer lenses.

Regardless of focal length of lens you will almost always be happier with fast glass (2.8 or faster) as many weddings are shot in dark churches and do not allow flash during cerimony.

Remember that the lenses fit many different camera bodies and you are likely to have them much longer than a specific camera so dont be afraid to wait, save and get good ones.

Good luck whatever you choose, and please let us know what factors led to your lens selection and most importantly tell us all your results.

[DaveG]

I shoot RAW, f-5.6, 1/30-60, ISO400 so a set of AA in my 550EX goes quite a bit. Though I swap them immediately if the cycling time seems to be longer than normal. It's probably a waste, but it's better than missing a crucial shot. I have a Sigma DG Super on order, and hopefully, it'll add to the flash photos.
I'm easy, however, I will not work if there is another shooter shows up next to me during the formal portraits. I had shots where the subjects were looking every which way because there were more than one camera pointing at them. I had "Uncle Bob" rearranged my pose because of certain relationship between subjects being photographed. I had family members who thought they can set up a better pose than I do, s/he would stand behind me and started to give verbal instructions to my subjects on where to look or how to pose. At this point, I usually tell the couple that the distraction is dragging out the session and I wouldn't have enough time to do the detail shots and a little reminder about our agreement at the contract signing. The couple often get someone to be the gatekeeper immediately after that. The only problem I had with the videographer is their tungsten hot lights. If I drag the shutter for the ambient light, then I'd have a serious mix lighting problem on hand. That's why when I shoot video, I use a daylight bulb bounced off an umbrella, the Bride'd look nice & soft while the I keep the still shooter happy.

Regards,
Alan

The funniest interference story happened last summer.

I was photographing the bride with the bridesmaids before the wedding. I had posed them and I think that I took a shot. I walked up to them (this was inside) when I noticed one of the bride's friends getting ready to take a shot.
I backed away to give her a chance and she took a shot. This was all OK with me since it was just a moment of delay. But I thought that the flash looked funny when she fired her camera. I walked up to her and realized that she was holding this very nice little digital point and shoot camera BACKWARDS. The funny flash light was because it was bouncing off of her forehead. I'm almost surprised that she didn't burn herself!

I said, "I think that you're holding the camera backwards." I didn't think was all that funny because I just thought that she was unfamiliar with that camera. I suspect that she got this camera the day before the wedding, because they always do. Anyway that big review screen may look more like a lens than the lens, so I understood.

Of course all her friends, including the bride went off on her. She's kind of sheepish about the whole thing and I felt a little bad, but I also figured that she probably wanted her pictures to turn out.

Meanwhile I've done my adjustments to the group and I'm back at the camera position. At this point she says, "Don't you think that the [something] in the background is distracting?" The "something", and it may have been a painting, was on the wall behind the group. I glanced though the camera and explained that it was out of my frame. Then she took ANOTHER shot with the camera backwards.

So here we have a wedding guest with a P&S that literally doesn't know which way to point the camera, and yet she is more than willing to question how I'm doing things. The story of my life.

[TonyKInTexas]

LOL That is TOO funny.

[Ken Fong]

So, at a general level, what does the digital photographer do in the place using low-contrast film (NPH or NPZ) for wedding situations (tight shots of bride in white dress and groom in black tux).

I will be shooting in this situation for both indoor and outdoor with off-the-camera flash. So far, what I've read is to never fire direct flash on the white dress and to diffuse the light; but I am quite a novice at precise metering and tweaking exposures. All my intelligence seems to go away when I am under pressure, so can anyone suggest a way to dummy-proof the setup in advance to minimize mistakes during the event? Most likely, I will be shooting in Program or Aperture Priority. Thankfully, I am not being paid for this, but I want to do good work since they didn't hire a professional.

thanks in advance
-Ken

[TonyKInTexas]

If it were me I would do more than defuse the light. I would think of using bounce (maybe even a 20/80 bounce where only 20% of the light is reflected to the subject). At the same time I would also look at reducing the output of the flash or set the exp. comp. to be about -1 or -2 stops. A lot depends on how far away you are going to be.

So get someone to wear a white dress in similiar light conditions and start practicing. That is going to be the best method to know what to do.

Depending on conditions, a bounce may be all that is needed. It is safer to practice and know for sure.

Take care,

So, at a general level, what does the digital photographer do in the place using low-contrast film (NPH or NPZ) for wedding situations (tight shots of bride in white dress and groom in black tux).

I will be shooting in this situation for both indoor and outdoor with off-the-camera flash. So far, what I've read is to never fire direct flash on the white dress and to diffuse the light; but I am quite a novice at precise metering and tweaking exposures. All my intelligence seems to go away when I am under pressure, so can anyone suggest a way to dummy-proof the setup in advance to minimize mistakes during the event? Most likely, I will be shooting in Program or Aperture Priority. Thankfully, I am not being paid for this, but I want to do good work since they didn't hire a professional.

thanks in advance
-Ken

[DaveG]

So, at a general level, what does the digital photographer do in the place using low-contrast film (NPH or NPZ) for wedding situations (tight shots of bride in white dress and groom in black tux).

I will be shooting in this situation for both indoor and outdoor with off-the-camera flash. So far, what I've read is to never fire direct flash on the white dress and to diffuse the light; but I am quite a novice at precise metering and tweaking exposures. All my intelligence seems to go away when I am under pressure, so can anyone suggest a way to dummy-proof the setup in advance to minimize mistakes during the event? Most likely, I will be shooting in Program or Aperture Priority. Thankfully, I am not being paid for this, but I want to do good work since they didn't hire a professional.


thanks in advance
-Ken

I don't know what kind of flash that you are using but I'll assume that it's a 550EX. If you have time to take a practice shot, do so and then look at the histogram. The worst thing that can happen to a digital capture is if you bury the hightlights - her white dress - on the right side of the histogram. If this happens change the flash output on the flash (this will override any compensation that you've enabled on the camera) and select minus 2/3 or so and ty another.

If you are using an automatic flash like a Vivitar 283, set it to f8 and try a shot, and of course review the review while using the histogram. If it's hot close down the lens a bit. If it's underexpsosing use the aperture to open up.

The key here is to get a good normal exposure on her dress. Her face might be a tad under but that way you'll preserve detail in the dress and you can fix the face in photoshop. Don't worry at all about the black tuxes. Let them go black. You'll still see detail in the vests, ties, flowers and of course the guy's faces.

Don't worry about direct flash and the bride's dress either. I'd like to know how you could photogaph the bride coming down the aisle (in either direction) in any other way. I mean it's god's house and even SHE couldn't bounce off of the ceiling of most real churches!

So you use direct flash and try to get it so that the flash is directly over the lens. That way there won't be side shadow. For those aisle shots side shadow isn't all that much of a problem anyway, since the background is so confused and the shadow is hard to see. DO NOT try a slow shutterspeed to ambient fill flash if the subject's are moving, since you'll just get a blur.

[G3]

I agree with Dave. If you are using a 550Ex, just go with Program mode and E-TTL for the vast majority of your shots. As Dave pointed out, if the subject is moving, shift your program to get a suitably high shutter speed (1/125th or higher). If you check your Histo often and just watch for blowing out highlights, you should be fine. Just don't overcompensate and start underexposing. Make smallish changes.

Believe it or not, getting the proper exposure is not the hardest part of wedding photography..far from it. The hardest things are being in the right place at the right time and getting all of the shots you need (sometimes I would like to clone myself 3 or 4 times), RELAXING...so your subjects will be relaxed, and posing people without making them look posed. All of this is experience...nobody can really tell you how to do it, you just have to do it and learn.

Practicing beforehand with similar subjects in similar settings is also good advice. And...a good assistant is indespensible.

One other little piece of advice, and then I'll shut up. Bring along an emergency kit and a short (4 foot) step ladder. In the emergency kit, have things like a small tool kit with a set of jeweler's screwdrivers, safety pins, straight pins, spot remover, a small mirror, black shoe polish, Kleenex, a small sewing kit, assorted buttons, some white adhesive tape, a small assortment of makeup (have a wife, girlfriend, mother or someone that knows about these things assemble the makeup kit for you), a cheap hairbrush and comb that you can throw away and replace, aspirin or Tylenol (for you..you'll need it), a small pair of sharp scissors. These are all things that I've needed at one time or another. Women cry a lot at weddings and makeup runs, if it's hot, it sweats off. Shoes get scuffed, bottons get lost. The Bridesmaid is there to assist in fixing the makeup and that sort of thing and you can get it done on the spot if you have these things with you, and you won't have to wait around for the Bride or Groom or whoever to run off somewhere else to get fixed up.

The ladder will come in handy for certain shots where you need to get some elevation for the shot. Be creative with that...you can come up with some really nice shots by properly elevating yourself.

[robertwgross]

I'll add a few comments to this.

We carry all of the ladder and stuff around in duffel bags when we set up at a wedding. That way, it is handy if we need it, but passers-by won't try to walk off with a ladder. One bag contains nothing but extra batteries and electrical gadgets for digital cameras and flashes.

We have the whole wedding shoot diagrammed out in advance. We know how many hours we are going to be there, so we have it planned out, in a general sort of way, for how many minutes we will be at each posing site, and about how many family shots we intend to get. With two shooters, the assistant can kind of make sure that we are sticking to the script. That way, we don't have to worry too much that we are overlooking something.

About the only thing that would really screw us up is weather. If we are shooting in a local park before the ceremony, extra windy or extra hot weather really throws a monkeywrench into the time schedule.

---Bob Gross---

[Ken Fong]

So if I'm hearing this right...practice, bounce, meter on the white, don't worry about the tux, and plan for contingencies.

I have a 550EX. I'm planning to use the omnibounce (tilted 45 degrees up) for the closer shots, but for the group shots, I was reading that I could actually point the omnibounce straight forward (subjects beyond 15 feet away)?

I guess I'll also buy a book on posing.

These are all great and valuable tips...thanks everyone.

[DaveG]

So if I'm hearing this right...practice, bounce, meter on the white, don't worry about the tux, and plan for contingencies.

I have a 550EX. I'm planning to use the omnibounce (tilted 45 degrees up) for the closer shots, but for the group shots, I was reading that I could actually point the omnibounce straight forward (subjects beyond 15 feet away)?

I guess I'll also buy a book on posing.

These are all great and valuable tips...thanks everyone.

If you are going to bounce, you have to bounce off something. Anything beyond a 10 foot ceiling is going to give you very little bounce effect.

Other than taking the time to remove the Omnibounce, it will give you no advantage in taking shots when it's in the 90 degree position. It may well make the light spread out to cover a wide angle, but the 550 with the 17mm wide angle diffusion screen deployed will cover a 14mm lens on a 10D.

The Omnibounce will NOT soften the light since softness is based on the size of the light source and its distance from the subject. A large lightsource that's a long way from the subject is very harsh (the sun) while a smaller light source very close to the subject is softer. In any case the Omnibounce pointed directly at the subject is still a point source of light and as harsh as the 550 is normally.

[Ken Fong]

Hello all,
Just wanted to update everyone on how the wedding photography went (by me the amateur). Overall, the operations went surprisingly smooth. I hope to have samples posted soon. Here are my lessons learned for my own journaling benefit (and hopefully others)...my focus was on in-church portraits.

Flash Setup:
The 580EX (Main) and 420EX (Fill) reflected off of a 60" and 40" umbrella reflector respectively, triggered by an ST-E2, which I was using for the first time (except for a few practice shots at home). Umbrellas were mounted on 2 $25 lightstands with $15 umbrella adapters with flash shoe mounts. Umbrellas were just above subject's eye level and were aimed just over the subject's heads. The Main and Fill were at 90 degrees relative to subject, with the camera equally between the reflectors. The ST-E2 was set to a 3:1 ratio (Main/Fill). The tripod that I brought was too short, so I had to hand-hold the camera. Setup time was very fast...about 10-15 minutes to set up the stands/umbrellas and configure the flashes as slaves. The 90 degree setup worked well for most of the photos. The only exception was with the group situations, where shadows were being cast onto folks in the back row...moving the reflectors closer towards the camera helped, as well as asking the folks in the back to lean forward.

Metering:
For the most part the Program mode got about >85% of the shots correct...this was a surprise given the black tux and white dress...I did not need to use an incidental meter. There was one case where the groom and best man (with black tux jacket on) did a silly pose kneeling down...for some reason, the matrix meter overexposed the shot, making the tuxes grey. It was shot in RAW, so maybe I can bring it back. When the jackets were removed, the metering was correct. Maybe next time I will bring a gray card to solve this problem.

Lenses:
The 50mm 1.4 and the 24-70mm 2.8 got the most use; the 85mm 1.8 was hardly used.

Posing:
Given that directing people is not my forte, it went well. It's amazing when you look and sound like you know what you are doing, people become very cooperative. I had a hard time getting people out of their 'trance' to remove the unnatural smiles, but the advice that helped me the most was to take the picture "after the picture"...folks were relaxed and some of the best shots came when people thought it was over.

Thanks again everyone for your advice...I hope to apply my lessons learned on the next shoot.