flash problems

[flyboy]

I often get circular spots on my pictures when using the flash in automatic mode. See this picture for an example, http://jg.clifton.ca/flashproblem.jpg .

My camera is a canon powershot s30. Does anybody know what the problem might be.

Thanks

[archiebald]

I am no expert but that looks just like lens flare as you might see when pointing the camera within a few degrees of the sun.

Nothing is obvious in the photo, but could there have been a bright reflection or a lamp just out of shot at the 1 o'clock position??

[mike b]

I do racing photography and I get the same thing with winner's circle pictures. I think it's dust particles floating around in the air in my case..

[RichYoung]

Check and see if the house is haunted. :) ...Rich

[pault]

Hi,

I am getting exactly the same problem with my Ixus V. Mainly on flash, but it does occur at other times.

Sometime I get just one or two starbursts, sometimes the whole frame is filled with them.

Regards

Paul

[tjwelch]

This started happening to me a few days ago. I attempted to clean the lens which helped but didn't totally eliminate the spots. So, I guess its dust as someone suggested. My problem started, coincidentally, after removing it from a camera which it had been in for the first time!
I think I'll put my camera in a ziplock and then in the case to prevent this.

[delphinus]

Did happened to me with my S30. I noticed it happens more often whenever I'm doing night outdoor photos with flash. I got one event where half of my picture got polka dot image in it, and to think about it, the weather is teribly foggy at that time, so it might be water vapor or dust reflection. Pault? Can I check with you on what weather condition when you got photos with circle images?

I've never tried any kind of filter before, but I heard polarizer can reduce reflection a lot. Would it be applicable in this case? Assuming the culprit is water vapor or dust reflection, of course?

Delphin

[tjwelch]

When I had the problem, it was cool and damp outside, but I was indoors.
I'm a photography 'newbie' so I don't know the answer to your question about a polarizer.

[Maestro]

I too had this problem with my S40 which I bought as an "open box" deal - so I think the camera might have been previously damaged and returned without a reason. Anyhow, I returned the camera to the store I bought it from and they gave me a replacement.
When I looked into the lens of the new camera I noticed a dramatic difference between the two. In the old camera there was a brownish haze around the internal edges of the barrel, in the new camera it's crystal clear. I wonder if somehow a seal is being broken in the lens and oxidizing a lens component?
Take a look down your lens and see if there's a brown dust around the edges - I'm curious to know!

[delphinus]

I got a brownish haze around the internal edges of the barrel. It was previously unseen but after using a strong light source I can see the brownish haze. You are mentioning about brownish haze, not about the c shape appearrance at 10, 2, 6 o'clock position, right?
Btw have you ever experienced such problem? circle in the pictures, Maestro?

Delphin

[Maestro]

Yep, I had the problem and I returned the camera to get a new one based on a reply to a message I sent to Canon's customer support group.

It was when I got the new one (a few days ago) that I noticed the difference. I had previously noticed the brown haze and thought it odd but didn't link it to any visual artifacts until I saw the new one which is completely clear. I did notice the C shaped notches and the haze associated together but the haze was definately attached to one or more of the lens' internal elements. If I still had the old camera I could do a side by side comparison but I can only go from memory now..

I experienced the circles in indoor pictures, with flash with various levels of zoom. I could never distinguish any in brightly lit pictures or at wide angle.

I tried to reproduce the problem on my new camera, but couldn't. However, the problem didn't happen all the time and I haven't had the opportunity yet to really experiment yet.

[rcpage]

I have noticed this on a few shots and was perplexed. I think you guys might have uncovered a manufacturing flaw that Canon may not be aware of or think is restricted to just a small batch of cameras.

Unlike cars there is no 'recall' obligation except so far as the camera is within its warranty period.

I am posting mine back to have the newer firmware installed and am asking for the lens to be replaced at the same time after copying your comments on my letter to them!

I will post the outcome in about 10 days time when the camera should be back.

[delphinus]

Seems we are not the only ones scratching our head. You can check it here: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1010&message=3196301

Their conclusion? It is caused by flash reflection from dust/ water vapor. That explains why I got more circles in one place and none at another.

Delphin

[tjwelch]

YOu know.. it just occured to me. Just before I took out the camera (when i had the circles) I was getting dressed for a halloween party and had been spraying gold color stuff on my hair. The spraying probably left lots of 'things' floating in the air.. maybe even spray on dust particles is what made them show up on the pics. I still am having the problem though.. j ust not near as bad, and not using the flash does help.

[delphinus]

Oops, just got a reply from Canon Technical support

----------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for your enquiry.

The white spots (white shadow ciricle) is cause by floating dust particles
in front of the optical unit or subject which appear as out of focus in the
image capture.

Attach is a website on the detail explanation of the white spots:-
http://www.fujifilmsupport.com/faq/tech/spot/spot.htm

Hope that this information is helpful to you.
----------------------------------------------------------------

Hope this helps


Delphin
http://www.pbase.com/delphinus

[pault]

A fascinating thread and a seemingly plausible explanation. Since my earlier posting I have continued to notice these "artifacts". Interestingly I had begun to think it was to do with water particles in the air. This was to do with the fact that I noticed I could get a lot of artifacts in a kitchen when cooking, also the most impressive example was when I took a photograph in fog and got thousands of artifacts.

What I still find curious is that the shape of the artifact is identical in each picture. This would seem to indicate that some kind of interference pattern is being created. However, to try and work this out I borrowed a friends Ixus and got the artifacts but with a different pattern.

Also any explanations about why I have never seen this on a traditional compact camera, (or maybe someone has?).

P.S Just as a final point I went home last night and got my wife to shake a duster while are took a photo, sure enough there were the artifacts.

[Maestro]

...So I wonder what that brown haze is in some lenses and if that has any effect on picture quality. But dust particles in the air does seem reasonable, however as stated by someone else, I've never noticed this on a point and shoot film camera before.

[delphinus]

Maybe caused by the film it used? Most film camera used ASA200 (ISO200) type of film. However, I'm not sure whether they are at the same absolute sensitivity level or not. I noticed less dots when I shoot using ISO200/ ISO100 compared to ISO400 (obviously)

I also read the comment why G1/G2 produces less/ almost none dots compared to S30/S40. They conclude that smaller lens produces more dots. Why? I'm not too sure. Check www.dpreview.com forum about this problem.

Delphin

[Maestro]

Just as a follow up:

I've had the opportunity to take a number of pictures recently with my new camera in all sorts of different conditions and I have not seen one white circular blob on any image yet even though some of the areas were quite dusty. I'm wondering if there was still some correlation between the lens and the reflections...

[SLR10]

I just got an S50 and was very disappointed with the white spots. The manual says it is normal with digital photography but I did not get them with the Nikon and Kodak camera's I had. The manual says the spots are a reflection of dust or bugs and it occures more at wide angles.

Personally, I think ther is a problem with the shape of the lens or the filter on the flash that causes this to show up so much. As stated in the Fuji bulletin posted by someone earlier, the closeness of the flash to the lens has something to do with this problem. Why don't the manufactures make a point of moving the flsh as far away as possible from the lend. That would help with red eye too. Don't they get it?

I bought this camera because it was supposed to be tat the top of its class, but the problem should lower its standing a lot. I am amased that canon has stuck with the "S" design and not tried to improve on it

[delphinus]

Agreed, this might be caused by lens/ flash problem. I also noticed that Sxx series camera produces red-eye problem more often as compared to other product due to the relatively close positioned lens and flash unit. Perhaps this contributes to dust reflection problem.

Delphinus
PS S30

[pblevitt]

Just to add

Having different shapes with different cameras could be due to the prism effect of the flash cover.

(Cannot remember the technical term, but they use the same idea in car headlights)