Hello

[EVOL]

I just found this awesome forum.

I just got into birding about a year ago and I am addicted. I have always enjoyed photography as a hobby and birding gave me a reason to further my photo skills.

I have my first question........I need a versatile lens for birding. It will take some time for me to save enough but I have it narrowed down to:

EF 300mm f/4.0L IS w/ Canon 1.4 extender

or

EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS


I know already people are going to say the 400mm but the 300mm is going for about $600 on ebay if you catch it. So what do you think?


Here is a sample shot of mine. Gold Crowned Kinglet

[Ospi]

Nice shot for starters. As for the lens decision, iv just bought the 300 with a 1.4x for wildlife and sport and took it over the 100-400 mainly because of its superior sharpness and speed at 300 and the QC issues with the 100-400 (and knowing my luck of late with lenses id get a dud).

However the 100-400 (if you get a good one) is brilliant, very versatile and very sharp. From photos i have seen it looks like the 300 + 1.4tc is just as sharp as a good copy of the 100-400 at 400mm so if you are going to be shooting at 300 and 400 a lot anyway and you say you can get it cheap id go for the 300 prime.

[canonloader]

Let me dip my oar in here. For $50 less than the EF 300mm f/4.0L IS, you can buy the all time premier birding lens, the 400mm f/5.6L Prime. Think about it. Do your homework. Read these forii and pay attention to what other people are using here, and the lenses they use to get their pics. IS is way over rated. You will hear all kinds of arguements about how IS will add a stop or two when shooting in low light. I say, they've been reading too many Canon ads and wait til it breaks. Think about it. If you have St. Vitus or some other palsey, get a lens with IS. If your reasonably steady or, [gasp] use a tripod, then you no more need IS in a lens than you need another front eye.

Your not one eyed, are you? :mrgreen:

[dancinec]

Welcome to the forum and beautiful shot and with a beautiful shot to begin with. I will have to second what Mitch has said. I have had my 100-400 mm for repair once already (although was covered by Canon). Look for a used EF 400/5.6 on eBay and I doubt whether you will find one. The 400 mm is lighter, less complex (and reportly sharper) than the zoom and much cheaper than the 100-400 zoom and of course the more expensive (although faster) 300.

[EVOL]

Can you use a 1.4 extender with the prime 400mm?

[hTr]

Just my opinion.

If you get the 300 mm f4 Prime and add 1.4 TC You have 420mm f5.6 and a 300mm f4

If you have 400 mm f5.6 you have 400 mm f5.6.

You do the math.

[tomcio]

The ultimate and "cheap" birding lens is the 400mm f5.6 .... if I was starting out I would be aming for that lens (trust me its better to start off good then spend more money in the long run). Close after that would be 300mm f4 IS and if you slap a 1.4x on it you have a 420mm lens with IS (and no IS is not just all hype). Another option would be Sigma 50-500mm but this lens is slow and needs to be stopped down to get sharp results.

[GyRob]

Can you use a 1.4 extender with the prime 400mm?
yes but only manul focuse unles on a 1d series camera.
Rob

[JimLittle]

Better yet, you can use 2 (count 'em, 2!) 1.4x extenders and still get sharp pics!

[tomcio]

yes but only manul focuse unles on a 1d series camera.
Rob

FALSE.......

Canon 1.4x you will have to tape pins to keep AF.
Tamron "cheap" 1.4x (works amazingly good on that lens) you have AF.

[ZipDude66]

My 2 cents, which is worth even less.

If it's a flat-out birding lens you're after, I would recommend the 400 5.6. On the other hand, if you have the urge to do some motor sports, air shows or any good light sporting events and still have a good birding lens 100-400 could be you're lens. Almost forgot 100-400 can even be used for portraits in a pinch. I have owned both and still own the 400 5.6.:) Never owned or used the 300 4 but can tell you many a good bird shot have been had with it. As for extenders I personally don't like them with any lens but have to admit to using them. It's your choice!

What lens did you use on the Kinglet? Good looking shot!

Zip

[EVOL]

That shot was taken with the EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6. I know a lot of people dont like that lens but in good light i get great shots with it.

I have been doing some searching and there are not any 400mm f/5.6's out there under $1200 right now.

I would like to try something with an IS but if the price is right ill try any one of the combos right now.

[hTr]

That shot was taken with the EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6. I know a lot of people dont like that lens but in good light i get great shots with it.

I have been doing some searching and there are not any 400mm f/5.6's out there under $1200 right now.

I would like to try something with an IS but if the price is right ill try any one of the combos right now.

Here is a example of a similar sized bird "Yellow Rump Warbler" using a 300mm f4 with 1.4 TC.

You be the judge

[EVOL]

very nice.

are you using the canon teleconverter with the EF 75-300mm 4-5.6?

if so......does it retain its autofocus?

[hTr]

very nice.

are you using the canon teleconverter with the EF 75-300mm 4-5.6?

if so......does it retain its autofocus?

This is a 300 mm f/4 L IS USM prime with canon 1.4 TC and yes this picture was taken with auto focus and Wide open f5.6, ISO 200, shutter 1/1600

[canonloader]

I have been doing some searching and there are not any 400mm f/5.6's out there under $1200 right now.
Say what? It's only $1,064, NEW (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=4657&A=details&Q=&sku=12129&is=GREY&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation).

And these were all shot (http://www.photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=277039) with the 400L and 1.4x TC II.

[hTr]

Say what? It's only $1,064, NEW (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=4657&A=details&Q=&sku=12129&is=GREY&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation).

And these were all shot (http://www.photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=277039) with the 400L and 1.4x TC II.


Mitch

Can you shoot yours with 1.4 TC in USM (Autofocus) or do you tape pins?

[canonloader]

It will shoot in AF, but it hunts all over. Taping the pins reduces that. Still not the best, but it is usable.

But my point is, without the 1.4, I could still have gotten all of those shots, they would have looked just as good and with a little croppage, just as big. People are always going for the bigger and better and forget the cost, when closer at free would work just as well. ;)

>edit< The original OP was asking about one lens to buy that would be best for birding. Even if I had the money to waste, I would still buy the 400L Prime, and not the 1-4 zoom, even as a second lens. Instead, I would buy the 400L and the 70-200L non-IS to take up the slack. ;)

[hTr]

It will shoot in AF, but it hunts all over. Taping the pins reduces that. Still not the best, but it is usable.

But my point is, without the 1.4, I could still have gotten all of those shots, they would have looked just as good and with a little croppage, just as big. People are always going for the bigger and better and forget the cost, when closer at free would work just as well. ;)

Mitch

My point for the 300 mm f4 IS with 1.4 TC is you really, you get Two lens the 300 IS and 420 IS. The cost for the lens is less than $40 and the 1.4 TC is about $250. The IQ is almost identical.

[canonloader]

For only another 20mm? Bad deal, IMHO. What's 20mm? One step closer, maybe one step and a baby step?

IS in a lens, unless you have the time and money to blow on it, is like women in bars wearing a lot of makeup. Looks pretty, until they wash it off. IS will eventually fail and you'll have to get it fixed. A non IS lens will just keep working, and working, and working. ;)

you get Two lens the 300 IS and 420 IS. The cost for the lens is less than $40 and the 1.4 TC is about $250.
And there you go, your back up to the cost of the 1-4 IS. Or, you've just degraded the IQ by adding the TC. It's a no win situation.

[EVOL]

Well I did it! I got a EF 300mm f/4.0L IS used for $750.

I plan on going with a 1.4 teleconverter but i have to replenish the funds first.

What you guys think between the Canon, Tamron, and Kenko teleconverters?

Is the canon worth the extra money?

[hTr]

Well I did it! I got a EF 300mm f/4.0L IS used for $750.

I plan on going with a 1.4 teleconverter but i have to replenish the funds first.

What you guys think between the Canon, Tamron, and Kenko teleconverters?

Is the canon worth the extra money?


congratulations you got a hell of a buy.

Here is a shot taken with Canon 1.4 TC and Your lens. Judge for yourself

Setting were:

f8
iso 400
shutter 1/1250
exp. 0

[memorex88]

Welcome to the forum and congrats on the new glass :)

[ngannet]

IS in a lens, unless you have the time and money to blow on it, is like women in bars wearing a lot of makeup. Looks pretty, until they wash it off. IS will eventually fail and you'll have to get it fixed. A non IS lens will just keep working, and working, and working. ;)



Hahahaha! That is way too funny!!!!:lol:

Congrats EVOL (do you like the band EVOL or is this referring to something else?) You have a nice lens there. I have the Tamron 1.4TC and I think it's pretty good. This shot was taken with my 400mm and 1.4TC and is a crop, maybe 25%. http://www.pbase.com/ngannet/image/74493481.jpg I would stay away from 2x TCs unless you're using a tripod. I tried the Canon one and my shots were garbage. But the subject was quite far away. Even though I stabilized the lens on my truck window (with the ignition off) I still couldn't get sharp shots. I try to avoid TCs at all cost, but sometimes birds are just a tad too far. The key is to have good lighting or a 'pod.

[reewik]

Bottom line , you just bought a fantastic lens at a fantastic price. I will also add... You will never, never have enough when it comes to bird photography. I went from the 400 5.6L (Will get it again next year) to a 300 2.8L IS. This for me made total sense. i can now AF with the 2X on for a longer focal length (600mm) then with my 400 with the 1.4 (560mm). What is 40 mm , you would be suprised. I also can shoot at 5.6 vs. f8 and this is totally awesome!!! Another plus is the IS... Trust me a huge, huge addition!

A lens of this quality is always a difficult decision...and just some further warning to you... If you love to bird you will be spending $6700.00 to $9000.00 on your next lens and tripod... LOL

[donlavange]

Bottom line , you just bought a fantastic lens at a fantastic price. I will also add... You will never, never have enough when it comes to bird photography. I went from the 400 5.6L (Will get it again next year) to a 300 2.8L IS. This for me made total sense. i can now AF with the 2X on for a longer focal length (600mm) then with my 400 with the 1.4 (560mm). What is 40 mm , you would be suprised. I also can shoot at 5.6 vs. f8 and this is totally awesome!!! Another plus is the IS... Trust me a huge, huge addition!

A lens of this quality is always a difficult decision...and just some further warning to you... If you love to bird you will be spending $6700.00 to $9000.00 on your next lens and tripod... LOL

If there is any adavntage to IS it ends at say 500mm unless you hand hold. According to the book, it says that even when left on IS, is turned off when the lens is mated with a tripod.(the lens senses it) Maybe weight lifting should be mandatory if you buy a lens at or above 500MM!

[reewik]

Do not always believe what you read sir!

[JimLittle]

There are many paths to follow on this journey but for me, it's hard to beat that 400mm 5.6L when using one or even two 1.4x teleconverters to achieve up to nearly 800mm's in focal length----It's really light, inexpensive right now with the rebate and sharp as a razor-----even better deals can be had when looking at used models----

But there is no one way to go-------

[EVOL]

thx guys.......im really excited to get this lens and spring to get here. i am on the migration route for many birds going north and im 45min away from the famous Horicon Marsh. i am an airline pilot and i frequently overnight in upper michigan along lake superior. last year i spotted scarlet tangers and indigo buntings but didnt have the equipment to photograph them. it took me a long time to give up my old 35mm film ways but im really excited to learn photography all over again.

no ngannet it isnt the band EVOL......its just a username that i have been using since i played Janes WW2 Fighters online in 99.

hTr and ngannet........those pics look great.

[donlavange]

Do not always believe what you read sir!

Could you explain? Does IS work on a tripod or what am I missing? Thanks.

[hTr]

Could you explain? Does IS work on a tripod or what am I missing? Thanks.

Actually Don the 300mm f4 IS USM has two IS modes, Mode 1 is for total IS and Mode 2 is for panning in the verticle or horizontal. This works very well for flight shots with a good Tripod head. Also It can be shut off or it doesn't hurt anything when it is on in a fixed postion.

[donlavange]

Actually Don the 300mm f4 IS USM has two IS modes, Mode 1 is for total IS and Mode 2 is for panning in the verticle or horizontal. This works very well for flight shots with a good Tripod head. Also It can be shut off or it doesn't hurt anything when it is on in a fixed postion.

Thank you! I realize there are 2 modes on most (or all) Canon IS lenses. I never really thought about the panning mode, so that is good to know.

I guess my question is. . . Is that aspect (panning) worth putting IS, at considerable expense, on these large (500 and above) lenses since most people can not hand hold them ?

[hTr]

Thank you! I realize there are 2 modes on most (or all) Canon IS lenses. I never really thought about the panning mode, so that is good to know.

I guess my question is. . . Is that aspect (panning) worth putting IS, at considerable expense, on these large (500 and above) lenses since most people can not hand hold them ?

I can't speak for the 500mm but the 300mm is completely capable of being
hand held and I would say in my experiance it make a significant difference. As far a panning on a tripod for larger slower birds mode 2 works well. For the small quick birds I would prefer IS mode 1 and Hand Held.


Now I would love to have a 500mm f4 IS USM to find out.

[donlavange]

Thanks hTr! Working on finding out.