10D Replacement

[Tom Green]

Keep hearing rumors that Canon is about to replace the 10D.
????

[Cadwell]

Yes, of course Canon is going to replace the 10D. Every dSLR in the range will be replaced at some point. No-one knows what with or when, though.

[Jim_T]

Keep hearing rumors that Canon is about to replace the 10D.
????

LOL.. A replacement is 'right around the corner'.... This rumor has been circulating since last October. I can't even count the number of times I've seen messages posted by people who say they've heard a Canon rep or a major camera seller claim that the 10D is discontinued.

As Cadwell says.. It most certainly will be replaced... Probably by this fall... The 10D has had a very long run compared to the D30/D60...

[jfretless]

Why are people so worried about the 10D getting replaced? When the replacement arrives, do all the 10D's stop working or does the images that come from the 10D's automatically become bad? Why do people think they have to the latest and greatest? More and more on this forum I get that the general feeling is, "money spent on equipment equals how good of a photographer I am." More than half the people on here will never sell one of their photos, but yet spend $10K to add to the big pile of "bird in flight" or "morning dew on a rose" photos.

Serious, Is it just me?

Even if I step back and admit that some of my frustration is sour grapes and wish I could plunk down $4K+ on 1D Mk2. I know that there are great "pro" photographers on this forum that need every edge that they can get when it comes to equipment, speed, image size, performance, etc... but that's their living, they buy those things to make money, not to impress the wife or co-workers.

Sorry for th rant, but I can't be the only one that feels this way.

John

[PrimoFelis]

Why are people so worried about the 10D getting replaced?
...
John

John,

I, for one, agree with your general sentiment. First and foremost, gears are tools. People who seem to forget that and flaunt their expensive equipments turn me off.

That said, I also understand that there are many people who are worried about model changes becuase they are contemplating on buying a piece of (often expensive) equipment.

No one likes to be the one who buys the current model one day, and find out 10 days later that it just got replaced with a new (and in the case of dSLR bodies very likely functionally improved) model at the same or a similar price. It's natural that people want to get more value for their money.

As for some hobbists keep switching gear for the latest and greatest models, I personally don't have any problems with that; it's their money.

By definition they are in it for the enjoyment and part of that comes from owning and using nice gear. (This is one of the expensive pitfalls for the hobbists. Professionals would have to justify their new equipments for the actual gains they provide or produce. Hobbists generally don't have to.) Anyway it's just a hobby. So I'd say "whatever turns you on." :)

Just my two cents worth.

A dRebel user and proud of it! :wink:
(Actually not exactly a cheap gear either. So everything is relative...)

[nosquare2003]

John,

A good camera / lens does helps to take better photos (especially for amateur):

- people usually learn faster from a better DSLR than a manual SLR
- it is a drive to make better photos with better equipments
- a better camera/lens helps to solve some difficult situations where amateur will certainly meet (e.g. low light, fast action, high contrast...)

I really want to see a 10D replacement. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to upgrade to a 10D replacement -- but a higher grade camera 8)

IMHO, it may not be good to get upgrade faster than one's learning steps...

[DaveG]

John,

A good camera / lens does helps to take better photos (especially for amateur):

- people usually learn faster from a better DSLR than a manual SLR
- it is a drive to make better photos with better equipments
- a better camera/lens helps to solve some difficult situations where amateur will certainly meet (e.g. low light, fast action, high contrast...)

I really want to see a 10D replacement. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to upgrade to a 10D replacement -- but a higher grade camera 8)

IMHO, it may not be good to get upgrade faster than one's learning steps...

"... people usually learn faster from a better DSLR than a manual SLR"

I completely disagree. I've been a photographer for about 25 years now, and a pro for about 20 of those, yet I would have hated to learn photography on my 10D. It's not that the 10D - or any digital camera is bad, it's that it is so complicated.

There is nothing on the 10D that is cause and effect. With an old Nikon FM you could tell a student "Turn THAT, and THIS will happen." Now you'd have to say, "Turn that and this will happen, IF you've enabled that."

There is also nothing linear about the controls. A dial with shutterspeeds was not only a control but a teaching device. The student could see all of the shutterspeeds and more importantly the pattern that they fell in. Now you get speeds in half or one third stop intervals and you never get to see them all at once, at least on the camera. The aperture controls are even worse. Do you remember how complicated and non intuitive aperture numbers were at first? "Let me see the big number is the small hole?" Well add two thirds MORE numbers (if your camera is in 1/3 mode) to your aperture collection. 2.8 was bad enough but then 3.2 and then 3.5? It must look like they have a wonky calculator!

[WestFalcon]

Learning on a DSLR has to be the ultimate tool. I have done professional photography for 30 years, taught photography classes, had a camera club at school(I am a teacher) and I really think that the instant feedback from a DSLR is a fantastic tool for learning. You can talk about a concept like depth of field and then you can instantly demonstrate it on a TV with the video out feature....thats instant feedback and as a teacher for 34 years, this is a wonderful teaching aid. You don't have to wait for the student to develop the roll of film and print it to critique his or her work. The old SLR's were good for teaching basic concepts of photography but the new DSLR's far exceed the old manual cameras. The only problem is that most young students and many adults can't afford $1000 for the camera and you can't teach as well from a point and shoot. My 2 cents!

[PrimoFelis]

Just talking about ease of learning the fundamental skills and knowledge of photography for a moment, I'd completely agree with comments by both DaveG and WestFalcon.

Frankly, I am glad I don't have to learn photography on one of these modern cameras with controls that are anything but straightforward or intuitive. My hat is off to those who can and do. But I sure wished I had the instant feedback of digital cameras back then.

So, in theory, an ideal camera to learn photography on might be an old manual SLR-type camera with straightforward "analog" controls (say Nikon FM2, Canon FTb, or Olympus OM1), but with the camera back ripped off and replaced with a digital sensor/memory/LCD display electronics.

Of course such a camera would not be considered "sexy" (except to the demented few), so we have no such thing on the market.

Or do we? Browsing at DPReview website, I see this new Epson digital rangefinder (Leica-M mount interchangeable lens) camera with analog controls.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0403/04031101epsonrd1.asp

(It's not an SLR, but I'd argue that with the instant feedback of digital it is less of a hindrance.)

I wouldn't mind having one of these in addition to my dRebel. In fact I might argue that this would make a good "10D replacement" too. (<- A forced and obligatory mention of Canon EOS digital products to stay in this forum and thread.)

It's bound to transform me into a much better photographer, right? :wink: (And it'd be cheaper than 1D MkII!)

[Tom W]

here's a thought, though I know it will never fly. Canon could come out with a Manual digital SLR, compatible with the older FD lenses. Perhaps they could even throw out a lens or two (though I doubt they would). Make it look and operate like the older AE-1 or FT style body, complete with match-needle metering.

It would be the best of both worlds - get the fast feedback of digital, and the learning experience of manual.

It would probably cost too much to make.

[nosquare2003]

DaveG

I agree to your points to some extent. Your example of aperture is good (but the technology won't change back for obvious reasons). But I would say, people take "more" pictures than ever with the use of DSLR. Provided all factors being equal, more practice will usually result in a steeper learning curve. And we have instant feedback of different results as stated by WestFalcon. Moreover, the EXIF file does helps for learning. Any bad photos (in technical terms) may be analysed by EXIF file. In the days of manual SLR, it is not possible unless we write all the settings in a notebook.

Tom W, I really miss the match-needle metering and the split screen for manual focus.

[DaveG]

DaveG

I agree to your points to some extent. Your example of aperture is good (but the technology won't change back for obvious reasons). But I would say, people take "more" pictures than ever with the use of DSLR. Provided all factors being equal, more practice will usually result in a steeper learning curve. And we have instant feedback of different results as stated by WestFalcon. Moreover, the EXIF file does helps for learning. Any bad photos (in technical terms) may be analysed by EXIF file. In the days of manual SLR, it is not possible unless we write all the settings in a notebook.

Tom W, I really miss the match-needle metering and the split screen for manual focus.

But I think that people will be more inclined to use a camera like a VCR. You know, you use 2% of the VCR's capabilities 99% of the time.

You CAN use review and you CAN take a lot more pictures with instant feedback. However if you don't know how to make meaningful changes to those images then you are just spinning your wheels. More is just more, if you can't fix the mistakes. Practice DOES NOT make perfect. PERFECT PRACTICE makes perfect.

Now this next stuff is probably the same on the EOS 1N, which make me glad that I didn't have to learn photography on that either. But it boggled my mind to finally realize that the dial on the top controls the shutter in shutterspeed priority and it controls the aperture in aperture priority. The SAME dial! And the big round back-of-the-camera dial which controls aperture while in manual has nothing to do with the aperture on any of the automatics. It's all of a sudden for setting a bias to over or under expose the automatic setting!

One would have thought that Canon would have kept the top dial as shutterspeed control and you'd mess with that if you wanted to bias the shutterspeed while on aperture priority and the back dial would stay the aperture control and (once again) you'd mess with that if you wanted to bias the aperture on shutterspeed priority.

And why is Shutterspeed Priority Tv? What in god's name is intuitive about that? Hey "A" = aperture priority and "S" = Shutterspeed priority. Rocket Science, eh?

Although I realize that Canon will never sell another SLR camera with an aperture ring on the lens, and that the conventions of the controls and stuff like "Tv" can't be changed now. It still doesn't make it any easier to learn.

[CoolToolGuy]

Practice DOES NOT make perfect. PERFECT PRACTICE makes perfect.


Sounds like Dave Pelz speaking.



And why is Shutterspeed Priority Tv? What in god's name is intuitive about that? Hey "A" = aperture priority and "S" = Shutterspeed priority. Rocket Science, eh?


Tv stands for Time value or Time variable.

Have Fun
Rick 8)

[nosquare2003]

DaveG,

Yes, if a learner doesn't have a learning attitude, it doesn't matter what equipments he uses. So, more practice in such case is not useful. And the manual SLR doesn't help either -- one may just give up photography anyway.

[PrimoFelis]

What was this thread about anyway? :?

Keep hearing rumors that Canon is about to replace the 10D.
????

Oh yeah. Right.

Here are past announcement dates for Canon dSLRs:

EOS D30: 17-May-00
EOS 1D: 25-Sep-01
EOS D60: 22-Feb-02
EOS 1Ds: 24-Sep-02
EOS 10D: 27-Feb-03
EOS 300D: 20-Aug-03
EOS 1D MkII: 27-Jan-04

I thought I might detect some kind of a pattern, but not really.

Sept-Oct. 2004, maybe? (Just guessing.)

[DaveG]

[quote=DaveG] Practice DOES NOT make perfect. PERFECT PRACTICE makes perfect.


Sounds like Dave Pelz speaking.

[quote="DaveG"]

Actually it was Bobby Orr.

[defordphoto]

What was this thread about anyway? :?

Keep hearing rumors that Canon is about to replace the 10D.
????

Oh yeah. Right.

Here are past announcement dates for Canon dSLRs:

EOS D30: 17-May-00
EOS 1D: 25-Sep-01
EOS D60: 22-Feb-02
EOS 1Ds: 24-Sep-02
EOS 10D: 27-Feb-03
EOS 300D: 20-Aug-03
EOS 1D MkII: 27-Jan-04

I thought I might detect some kind of a pattern, but not really.

Sept-Oct. 2004, maybe? (Just guessing.)

Spring/Fall - Spring/Fall

There sure is a pattern there, except for the D30, but that's a different deal. People are expecting a 10D MKII this fall. Some people are also expecting a new 1Ds MKII. It'll be fun to see what Canon delivers. I doubt they have the ability to announce two major camera upgrades simultaneously. Their productions lines can't keep up with what they have now.

[CoolToolGuy]

Actually it was Bobby Orr.

No kidding? Surprised the puck outa me :!:

Have Fun
Rick 8)

[Tom W]

Actually it was Bobby Orr.

No kidding? Surprised the puck outa me :!:

Have Fun
Rick 8)

Hey - no slapshot comedy! :)

[CoolToolGuy]

Actually it was Bobby Orr.

No kidding? Surprised the puck outa me :!:

Have Fun
Rick 8)

Hey - no slapshot comedy! :)

Yea, that would be icing on the cake

Have Fun
Rick 8)

[CyberDyneSystems]

Go ahead and keep up the fighting guys,. the moderators won't interfere unless a Hockey Match breaks out!


:roll: 8)

[EBOS]

What was this thread about anyway? :?

Keep hearing rumors that Canon is about to replace the 10D.
????

Oh yeah. Right.

Here are past announcement dates for Canon dSLRs:

EOS D30: 17-May-00
EOS 1D: 25-Sep-01
EOS D60: 22-Feb-02
EOS 1Ds: 24-Sep-02
EOS 10D: 27-Feb-03
EOS 300D: 20-Aug-03
EOS 1D MkII: 27-Jan-04

I thought I might detect some kind of a pattern, but not really.

Sept-Oct. 2004, maybe? (Just guessing.)

Spring/Fall - Spring/Fall

There sure is a pattern there, except for the D30, but that's a different deal. People are expecting a 10D MKII this fall. Some people are also expecting a new 1Ds MKII. It'll be fun to see what Canon delivers. I doubt they have the ability to announce two major camera upgrades simultaneously. Their productions lines can't keep up with what they have now.

I hope they release the 10D mkII ... :lol:

Greetz,

EBOS

[defordphoto]

Could be. Market-wise, the 10D and Drebel are Canon's weak points with the Nikon D70 out there. I'll predict a 10d MKII in fall and then the 1Ds MKII in Spring.

[iwatkins]

10D replacement ? Yes, absolutely will happen. When ? Who knows but in the next 12 months for sure.

As for the learning using a DSLR. I'm glad I learned on a totally manual camera without a meter (for the first month), then my dad let me put a battery in it (Oly OM10). BUt I would have loved the instant feedback on shots taken rather than labs/home developing.

As for amateurs buying kit. So what, if they want shiny new toys, let them buy them. I'm certainly one of the worst at being like this as I am a bit of a gadget freak myself. As I always say: "He who dies with the most toys, wins".

(I have actually sold some of my shots, so I'm not included in John's rant :roll: )

Cheers

Ian

[photography By Evangelos]

If I were a betting man I would say the 10D will be no more. Canon has a cycle for the non 1D cameras and that is replacement. Just like the D30,D60, and the 10D will be on the hit list soon. What do we need in the next camera?? Well we will get the DIGIC chip II for sure and we will get ETTL II for sure. As for the DIGIC chip I would have to say it is time for a larger pixel count we have now had three 6.0 Pixel cameras D60,10D, and the Digital Rebel so I would say 8 or 9 Pixels with a 1.6 X factor. A larger Buffer as the Nikon D70's is way larger than the 10D :cry: and the Digital rebel. So now we will have to wait but not for long as the 10D is now over 13 months old and it's time is near.
:D :D

Angelo

[Cadwell]

I have a 10D. I will probably not buy the 10D replacement as the 10D currently meets / exceeds my needs. I WILL probably buy the 10D replacement replacement as by then the technology will have moved on far enough for it to be worthwhile and my 10D will be looking a little tired.