Volleyball

[jharms1]

I'm still trying to learn how to take pictures of volleyball. My daughter had a tournament last weekend in a fairly dark gym. I used both my 85mm 1.8 and my 70-200mm 2.8 IS. I know from this forum that the 85mm is the lens of choice, but I really like the zoom. Here's a sample. Input on exposure and any other improvements would be appreciated.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m79/jharms1/IMG_9398.jpg

Here is a cropped version. I haven't purchased a noise reduction program yet. Is Noise Ninja still the gold standard? I heard about another one which has recently come out of beta which is supposed to be really good. Any suggestions on the best program to remove noise?
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m79/jharms1/IMG_9398-1.jpg

[BradS]

I did purchase Noise Ninja and have used it with some success. If you would like, send an image to me and I'll run it through the program and send the cleaned version back for your inspection.

Brad

[ZL4life]

use the flash! i've talked to some of the v-ball girls and they don't mind, and it really helps.

[grego]

70-200 is lens of choice, if you have the light. 300 2.8 is the lens of choice if you can get elevation for above shots.

It all just depends on the variables, involved in the gym setup.

[Heatseeker99]

I use the free version of Noiseware. It works great for my needs. Google it and give it a try.

[MJPhotos24]

use the flash! i've talked to some of the v-ball girls and they don't mind, and it really helps.
PLEASE DO NOT TAKE THAT ADVICE!!!!! I coach varsity volleyball, and I almost threw a photographer out the fricken door for his annoying flash habits!! I'm sorry but good photogs don't need a flash!! Yes, a good "light source" helps but standard flashes are friggen annoying and if you want to be thrown out of my gym by all means use it, but if you want to stay don't! The lenses you have should be plenty so do NOT use the flash!! Not to mention they cause a really "fake" effect to the photos.

P.S. yes I'm biased :)

[vetkrazy]

I understand wanting to use the zoom. If you have the light go for it. What was your shooting data? Underexposing adds to the noise level. What was your focus point? It looks like the back of the spiker as the blockers look oof.

As for noise reduction, the 2 most popular are noise ninja and noiseware. Noiseware has a freeware program you can down load and give a try.

And by all means NO flash! Will get you the boot real quick!

[jharms1]

Thanks, everyone! Here's a consolidated response to the posts received so far.

Offer to run through Noise Ninja - BradS, I sent you a PM. Thanks!

Use the flash - I was using a Minolta Dimage 7 with a flash until my daughter's high school coach forbid me from taking flash pictures at their games. That's what pushed me to but the equipment that I have now. I think that with a little knowledge and a lot of practice that I'll be able to get some good shots without the flash. Love the new equipment, however.

300 2.8 is the lens of choice - I've already spent waaaay too much money on camera equipment...at least until I learn how to use it properly. What I'd really like to have is a 28-500 1.2. Wouldn't that be an awesome lens! Yes, I know that I'd have to sell my house to buy something like this. But wouldn't it be great?

Free version of Noiseware - I'll google it and give it a try! Does it have the watermarks like the trial version of Noise Ninja? Does it work as good as Noise Ninja?

Shooting information - 1/400, 2.8, spot metering, digital exposure +0.1, ISO 3200, focal length 130mm, AI Servo AF, white balance daylight, focus center point.

Thank you all for the advice so far. What about critiques of this picture. Is it over or under exposed? Is 3200 ISO too high? Is 400 too slow? Other setting suggestions?

[Hurricane_777]

Thanks, everyone!

Thank you all for the advice so far. What about critiques of this picture. Is it over or under exposed? Is 3200 ISO too high? Is 400 too slow? Other setting suggestions?

Just curious....from a composition perspective, what was your intended point of focus in the pic you posted? The 2nd appears to be cropped a bit too tight (my opinion) and probably wouldn't display well larger than a 4 x 6. The exposure looks okay (from a brightness perspective), but to answer your question I still find myself trying to stay away from 3200 and keep the ss at/over 500. Use the 1.8 here :) .

IMO, This vantage point (behind the endline) is really only good for capturing blocks and serves (on the same side) and in some cases you need the additional reach beyond 85mm. Getting closer to the net allows you to capture anything at the net as well as the bumps and sets.

And by all means as others have said (and you have learned :) ), stay away from the flash. :D

[carpenter]

Free version of Noiseware - I'll google it and give it a try! Does it have the watermarks like the trial version of Noise Ninja? Does it work as good as Noise Ninja?




No water marks and it works quite well. Try that first before you purchase NN and see if you like what it does. I was in the same boat and I was pretty impressed with Noiseware so I just stuck with that.

[jharms1]

I use the free version of Noiseware. It works great for my needs. Google it and give it a try.

Just curious....from a composition perspective, what was your intended point of focus in the pic you posted? The 2nd appears to be cropped a bit too tight (my opinion) and probably wouldn't display well larger than a 4 x 6. The exposure looks okay (from a brightness perspective), but to answer your question I still find myself trying to stay away from 3200 and keep the ss at/over 500. Use the 1.8 here :) .

IMO, This vantage point (behind the endline) is really only good for capturing blocks and serves (on the same side) and in some cases you need the additional reach beyond 85mm. Getting closer to the net allows you to capture anything at the net as well as the bumps and sets.

And by all means as others have said (and you have learned :) ), stay away from the flash. :D

My team is the one in white. This particular shot appears to be focused on the opponent's head which makes the blockers a little out of focus. This is at 2.8. An f-stop lower than that would even decrease the depth of field. I agree about the vantage point. This was a very small gym and I wasn't allowed to sit on the sidelines. I almost always have unlimited court access and I typically shoot at courtside close to the net. I try and avoid 3200 as well. I did use my 85mm 1.8 quite a bit over this 2 day tournament but it was too short from where I had to stand. To try and keep the shutter speed up at 400 - 500 at 2.8 I had to shoot at 3200. Thanks for all the input! Keep it coming.

[superdiver]

I think you are off to a great start. I dont like the 2nd cropped verison. I like the first one better.

I have the 85 and a siggy 70-200 so I get the same basic noise. I also have both Noise Ninja and NeatImage. I use Neat image invariably. Check out my sports section and you can see how it works and whether you like the look or not.

A couple of CC...I would shoot from the floor and get more towards the net. I just dont like the looking down shots in volleyball...VB is all about mad hops. I wanna at least feel like these girls are up in the air and thats hard to do unless you are lowere then them...

[ZL4life]

PLEASE DO NOT TAKE THAT ADVICE!!!!! I coach varsity volleyball, and I almost threw a photographer out the fricken door for his annoying flash habits!! I'm sorry but good photogs don't need a flash!! Yes, a good "light source" helps but standard flashes are friggen annoying and if you want to be thrown out of my gym by all means use it, but if you want to stay don't! The lenses you have should be plenty so do NOT use the flash!! Not to mention they cause a really "fake" effect to the photos.

P.S. yes I'm biased :)


wow, that's crayz, i've asked the girls before, they only time they don't like it is when they're serving.

[liza]

I don't use flash as a rule at any sporting events. Not only is it prohibited, it just looks bad.

When I shoot volleyball, I tend to use the 100 f/2 more than the 85mm f/1.8 lens. The settings I typically use are f/2.2 to 2.5, 1/500, and ISO 1600. Works for me.

[jharms1]

wow, that's crayz, i've asked the girls before, they only time they don't like it is when they're serving.

I shot with a flash for a couple of years. The girls told me that they never noticed. I had a ref tell me not to shoot towards her because it blinded her, one time. The straw that broke the camel's back was when my daughter's coach wouldn't let me take flash pictures. Since I'm the team photographer (self appointed), I had a 30D and an EF 70-200mm f2.8L IS USM by the next match. I upload my pics to Yahoo's photo site and send the album out to the girls and parents. Even if they are not technically great, the girls sure like seeing pictures of themselves. And carrying a camera almost always gets me a courtside seat.

I do think that my pictures are better without a flash. I'm just trying to learn how to make them consistently better.

[superdiver]

LOL...as a photographer who doesnt use flash in sports I find the "flashers" annoying....LOL

[liza]

LOL...as a photographer who doesnt use flash in sports I find the "flashers" annoying....LOL

So do I. It really pi$$e$ me off when they mess up what would have been an otherwise perfect shot.

[ZL4life]

how do you know they messed it up? it still may be a perfect shot, for them

[liza]

how do you know they messed it up? it still may be a perfect shot, for them

No, you misunderstood. They're messing up MINE. For example, I had a well composed shot of a basketball tip off at the perfect moment loused up by a guy on the other end of the court using his flash and absolutely ruining my shot. The TV news guys hate them, too.

[ZL4life]

oooook, i get it. sorry

[disneydork06]

haha, a flashing debate. anyways, if you really want to use flash just ask the upref and also the coaches. if any of them say no then do not use it at all. some of the local newspaper photographers tend to use a bounce flash off the wall triggered by pw. they even use them inside our dome for football and basketball games. so yeah, it never hurts to ask. btw, I personally dont use a flash.

[grego]

300 2.8 is the lens of choice - I've already spent waaaay too much money on camera equipment...at least until I learn how to use it properly. What I'd really like to have is a 28-500 1.2. Wouldn't that be an awesome lens! Yes, I know that I'd have to sell my house to buy something like this. But wouldn't it be great?


Don't worry. You don't need to spend that much. But lens of choice can vary depending on what positions you can attain in the gym. A 300 2.8 might be very valuable if you can get into stands and shoot from above.

The Sigma 120-300 2.8 is a nice lens and its affordable compared to the 300 2.8. Would recommend it with a monopod though.

If shooting on the sidelines, then a 70-200 focal length or 85 1.8 would do well. Or from the baselines.

I shot with a flash for a couple of years. The girls told me that they never noticed. I had a ref tell me not to shoot towards her because it blinded her, one time. The straw that broke the camel's back was when my daughter's coach wouldn't let me take flash pictures. Since I'm the team photographer (self appointed), I had a 30D and an EF 70-200mm f2.8L IS USM by the next match. I upload my pics to Yahoo's photo site and send the album out to the girls and parents. Even if they are not technically great, the girls sure like seeing pictures of themselves. And carrying a camera almost always gets me a courtside seat.

I do think that my pictures are better without a flash. I'm just trying to learn how to make them consistently better.

If you can get good coverage with flash, its good as long as its okay with everyone else. Strobes of course are ideal. And then of course you can't use a motor drive with strobes or flash because the recycle time is too slow.