Lighting for total morons (like me)

[Scottes]

Winter is still here, so I've been testing extension tubes and playing with macro shots in my basement and such. I'm not happy with my lighting. Dull and lifeless. I've got a couple books, but they (and others that I've looked at) seem to key in on 2 things: portraits, and lotsa fancy different types of lights that I just can't see buying.

I want to do small (closeup to macro) still-life stuff. I want to get lighting cheap - I'm happy to make stuff in my shop - and I use digital so color-cast is easily correctable, and AWB exists. Good enough for now.

But all lighting books I've looked through seem to lean towards portraits, and they all seem to lean towards much larger subjects than I'll do. I'd love to find a book on "Home-Made Lighting for Small and Macro Subjects" but this seems unlikely. :)

Any hints, tips, suggestions, etc, etc, etc?

I understand that lighting is an art unto itself. But I don't even know how to hold the paintbrush at this point.

[slejhamer]

Have you tried the cut-out milk jug and flood light?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/photo/essays/vanRiper/020809.htm

I made a much bigger version with a cardboard box. I cut out one side and the top and covered them with a frosted shower curtain. Painted the remaining inside panels flat white (built-in reflector.) Add a black cloth or sheet of construction paper for the bg.

First shot done with the box and two tungsten lamps:
http://www.pbase.com/image/22992188

This one was with a single flash into the side panel toward the back of the box from slightly behind the flower (as I recall):
http://www.pbase.com/image/22994454

And finally this one was done using a sheet of white 8.5"x14" paper to form a dome over the scooter, with a single flash from behind and up into the "dome." I held another sheet of paper in front, camera right, as a reflector. The dome gave a nice wrap-around effect, and the front reflector added just a little more frontal lighting. The "wet asphalt" is a textured plastic desk blotter.
http://www.pbase.com/image/26041232

Also check out the free lessons for basic product shots here:
http://www.webphotoschool.com/newschool/freelessons/index.html. It's a commercial site but the free lessons are worth a look. If you don't have soft boxes you might be able to improvise with the milk jug and/or cardboard box.

P.S. I actually find the rules of portrait lighting to be useful in macro work. ;)

Cheers,

[Scottes]

I've been using a couple of flourescent-light panels, domed over, with 150-watt halogens controlled by distance and dimmers.

http://www.itsanadventure.com/postimages/400_setup.jpg

The problem is a lack of control. I'd like one side to be much darker than it is, but too much is reflecting inside. Perhaps it's a matter of putting different shades of paper inside, but that seems like a real bother. Also the light is sometimes too soft, sometimes way too soft.

So it seems that the control I want would be better served by multiple lights.

Why is it never easy?


PS: Nice shots

[evilenglishman]

I've been using a couple of flourescent-light panels......

....The problem is a lack of control. I'd like one side to be much darker than it is, but too much is reflecting inside.



lose one of the lights and make use of the reflections from your only light.
If its too soft lose the paper.

[slejhamer]

lose one of the lights and make use of the reflections from your only light.


I agree with Evil's suggestion.

Also, based on where the light is hitting the edge of the dome, you are probably getting some direct light spilling onto the opposite inside wall of the dome which is adding to the ambient light. Try using some sheets of black construction paper to feather or flag the light; just be careful not to let them touch the hot halogens!

[Scottes]

Yep, tried that too, just wasn't happy. I got rid of all the reflectors and used one light and the very very little ambient light in the room. Then I played with reflectors - printing paper, white foam core, gray paper - until I realized that the lighting was too soft.

Guess I just got to play some more, but I wish I had more of a clue (and equipment).

[iwatkins]

I've been playing around with constant lighting as well for macro/table top stuff.

I've been tinkering in the shed with mains voltage halogen lighting. In conjection with a dimmer control I should be able to have two lights (or mroe in fact) with independent dimming.

Problem I have is finding the materials. I can't for the life of me find that gooseneck material, you know, the metal tube that bends in any direction but supports weight. Apart from that stuff, I'm almost there.

I basically have a single cable running to the wall that leads into a 4 foot by 4 foot by 3 inch high "box" for my base (my table). The electrics are all in there with two dimmer controls on the front face of the "table". Once I have the gooseneck material I'll then be able to position the light heads almost anywhere giving almost total control over lighting.

In addition, with the solid base, mounting paper/card backgrounds, coves is fairly easy.

Cheers

Ian

[Scottes]

Problem I have is finding the materials. I can't for the life of me find that gooseneck material, you know, the metal tube that bends in any direction but supports weight. Apart from that stuff, I'm almost there.

Yep, I wish that I could find that stuff, too. About the only thing I could think of would be conduit. But I don't know if it would really hold shape, or too much weight.

Lamps like this (http://www.dazor.com/dazor/catalog/hatask.html) would be nice. But I'd like to just find the tubing able to hold 10 pounds and make it myself. Those lamps probably wouldn't hold up to adding diffusers or barn doors or something - they'll probably just hold their own weight and that's about it.

Hardware stores might have some type of flexible tubing such as those used for gas lines.

[Tom W]

Here's something that might work -

I got a couple of those cheap clamp-on aluminum reflector work lights from the local Home Depot store. Then I picked up a pair of the cheapest tripods I could find at WalMart. This is what I came up with:

http://home.comcast.net/~trwilk3/Images/MacroSetup.jpg

I used that to produce this (OK, its a stupid picture, but its only purpose is to illustrate one of the uses of the lights):

http://home.comcast.net/~trwilk3/Images/BrownsMacro.jpg

I used those little spring clamps to attach white handkercheifs to each light to soften them a bit. Bulbs are 100 watt Halogen. Shoot RAW, use about 2900 K custom white balance either in camera or in FVU to get it back to normal color.

Of course, if I weren't just messing around, I might put a nice background behind the object and set it up on something other than the Kenko Extension Tube box. :)

[iwatkins]

Scottes,

Been digging around this morning and came across these: http://www.kaiser-fototechnik.de/en/produkt.asp?artikel=5568

No idea on price, but would be easy to build into a homemade table top studio. Dimmerable as well.

Cheers

Ian

[Scottes]

Tom your photo has what bothers me - lack of shadows and contrast. I think this is because the light source is so huge in comparison to the subject that the shadows fade so lightly that they're lost.

I guess that I'd like the ability to do "Rembrandt Lighting" on a Barbie doll. Is that asking too much?

[Scottes]

Been digging around this morning and came across these: http://www.kaiser-fototechnik.de/en/produkt.asp?artikel=5568

Sweet!

Look at this setup:
http://www.hpmarketingcorp.com/images/Kaiser/DIGITALSTUDIO1.jpg

Can't find pricing either. :(

[slejhamer]

I guess that I'd like the ability to do "Rembrandt Lighting" on a Barbie doll. Is that asking too much?

Reading those portrait books again, eh? :wink:

Scale the lights down to Barbie size by investing in a few AAA mini-MagLites; the beam is adjustable from spot to flood. Use cardboard and blue-tack for barn doors. Roll up a 1"-strip of paper for a snooted hairlight. Heck, I might have to try this myself! :D

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00002N6SF/102-9781990-7195351?v=glance
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00002N6SF.01.MZZZZZZZ.jpg

P.S. Most of those table-top product lighting setups are intended to give very diffused, shadow-free light. Doesn't quite sound like what you are going for...

[Tom W]

Tom your photo has what bothers me - lack of shadows and contrast. I think this is because the light source is so huge in comparison to the subject that the shadows fade so lightly that they're lost.

I guess that I'd like the ability to do "Rembrandt Lighting" on a Barbie doll. Is that asking too much?

I guess I'm more into "ebay" lighting. :)

Actually, I don't know what Rembrandt lighting might be, having not tasted the juices of higher education for a long time, but I suspect that it could be achieved by either removing the diffusing handkerchief from one or the other light, varying the distance and angle, or just using one light from some pre-determined angle.

I haven't experimented enough with my "cheap light" setup yet to try the various lighting styles - my main goal has usually to get rid of the hard shadows so that the person looking at the object might be able to see what is hidden in them. Plus, I've been working to avoid harsh reflections.

[Tom W]

Been digging around this morning and came across these: http://www.kaiser-fototechnik.de/en/produkt.asp?artikel=5568

Sweet!

Look at this setup:
http://www.hpmarketingcorp.com/images/Kaiser/DIGITALSTUDIO1.jpg

Can't find pricing either. :(

That looks cool, though it appears to be some kind of poolside tanning booth for the wealthy. Looks versatile.

[Scottes]

I guess that I'd like the ability to do "Rembrandt Lighting" on a Barbie doll. Is that asking too much?

Reading those portrait books again, eh? :wink:

Guilty as charged. :)


Scale the lights down to Barbie size by investing in a few AAA mini-MagLites; the beam is adjustable from spot to flood. Use cardboard and blue-tack for barn doors. Roll up a 1"-strip of paper for a snooted hairlight. Heck, I might have to try this myself! :D

I may play with this since I have several. I wonder if it will work well - the inner spot is oddly shaped, and the fall-off is large and soft. With the tubing to form a snoot it has merit though. I'll give it a go.

P.S. Most of those table-top product lighting setups are intended to give very diffused, shadow-free light. Doesn't quite sound like what you are going for...

Very good point. Dazor makes some nice goosenecked concentrated spots, but at $120 a pop it hurts. But this made me thing that maybe tracklite spots attached to some sort of gooseneck would be OK. I may give that a shot.

[Scottes]

I guess I'm more into "ebay" lighting. :)

I'd like to be in that price range. :) If only they'd do what I want.

Actually, I don't know what Rembrandt lighting might be,

Relatively high contrast lighting on one side of the face leaving most of the other side in shadow, except for a triangle of light on the cheek opposite the light.

http://www.garageglamour.com/tips/articles/chiaroscuro/dualapryll1.jpg

If I could get that effect on a small object I'd be happy.

...my main goal has usually to get rid of the hard shadows so that the person looking at the object might be able to see what is hidden in them. Plus, I've been working to avoid harsh reflections.

Yep, that appears to be the goal of most macro lighting. But why? OK, it makes sense sometimes/mosttimes, but isn't the light what makes the photo? Why not do it on a small scale? Most small/macro photos look flat - where are the dimensions???


Thinking about these things mentioned in this post, particularly sljhammer's points about diffusion, makes me think that I'm looking for spotlights. A spotlight will actually be quite a large light source to a Barbie doll anyway. Hopefully they'd give me more shadow control than a huge light source than I've been using, since I can control the light better with diffusers and reflectors.

[Tom W]

OK, I'm not sure I have the proper subject material to duplicate that, but I did some playing around after reading your post. First, I got out my "50 Lighting Techniques" book. Oddly enough, I found Rembrandt lighting. :)

So here's what I did. The setup was this. Removed the diffusing from the left light, but left it on the right one. I tried to set the left one to get some good shadow, though it is difficult as my little Browns feller isn't all that deep. He's not very human-shaped.

Anyway, here's the setup:

http://home.comcast.net/~trwilk3/Images/RembLight2.jpg

And here's the first picture with the left light up high and shining directly on Mr. Brown:

http://home.comcast.net/~trwilk3/Images/Rembrandt2.jpg

Shadows are pretty strong, even if his face doesn't share the beautiful features of the model in your pictures. :) Moving the light will change that. (whoops - edit: Moving the light will NOT change that :) ).

If the shadows seem too dark, you can use diffuse light to fill like this:

http://home.comcast.net/~trwilk3/Images/RembFill2.jpg

The intensity of the fill can be varied by moving the light back away from the subject. Alternately, you could install some kind of dimmer on the cords.

[Scottes]

I like #1 better, as you can clearly see the wrinkles and he has more depth.

My current lights definitely aren't as positional as I'd like. Time to work on that.


I have a feeling that I'll be visiting the local hardware stuff and the Home Depot and such. Might even build a proper table.


Lotsa good iseas and things to check. Hopefully it won't take too much time or money. Especially money. (I "need" more L.)

[Tom W]

I probably could have gotten even more intense shadows if I had moved the left light down a bit and more to the side - Its easy to experiment. One could probably use some aluminum foil to block off part of the reflected light, kind-of like a snoot.

A couple of things if you go the "cheap shop light" method:

1. Don't leave the lights on for more than 15 minutes or so with handkerchiefs or cloth over them. They do get a little warm, though the cloth is about 3 inches from the bulb so it probably isn't a true fire hazard. Nevertheless, better safe than sorry.

2. These are really tungsten light - if you mix them with camera flash, you may get some strange color casts that will be hard to correct. You'll have the yellowish cast from these lights and the white light of the flash. Window light in large amounts will do the same thing when mixed with tungsten.

3. The tripods I used are the cheapest ones I could find at WalMart - I think they're about $15 each. You can use them for off-camera flash and perhaps for a point and shoot camera, but I'd not be willing to put my 10D on one of them. :)

I am starting to use these lights a lot for object pictures - they are much less harsh than flash, though bounce flash is fairly soft. Plus, they're fun to play with and learn with.

Some day, I may get a small set of studio lights or strobes, but I'm not ready for that yet.

[Scottes]

Yep. The 3 lights I have all put out the same color temp, and I don't use flash for this reason. I can fix/set the white balance this way.

15 minutes under these lights usually breaks me into a good sweat. :) 3 x 150 halogen = hot, very hot.

I've heard that dimming can change color temp, so I bought bulbs in different wattage. This may not be true, but bulbs are cheap, and better safe than sorry.

I hack around in my workshop so I'll probably build a new table and stands and clamps out of scraps. All that may cost me $3 if I'm missing a clamping part.

I heard of a way to make home-made goosenecks: buy some conduit and stuff it with wire. The conduit makes it flexible while the wire inside gives rigidity and holds it where you place it. Hopefully $15 will get me 4 or 5 goosenecks.

Add some small clamps at $.49 each to hold foamcore reflectors, gobos and such. Tape these to the goosenecks.

If it comes down to it I'll buy some halogen spots and attach them to goosenecks.

If I go full-blown crazy this might cost me $100 and a week in the basement. If I get frustrated I'll be ordering some fancy lights and not getting L. :)

[slejhamer]

If I get frustrated I'll be ordering some fancy lights and not getting L. :)

Read this, Scott:
http://www.zuga.net/forums/showthread.php?s=b4462924504304f96fdf6be62f14e969& threadid=12576&highlight=light

Lessons from a master, using one light and a reflector to get classical portrait lighting on a 6" tall statuette!

You don't need MORE lights. You just need DIRECTIONAL light. (And of course the mini-mag will work great for this exercise.) :D

Happy snapping!

[shelbix2020]

I tried the milk jug with a 15 watt and a 20 watt light .. one on either side .. and came up with these 2 shots:

http://www.alexusfreehost.com/shelbix2020/Horse%20Keychain.jpg

and:
http://www.alexusfreehost.com/shelbix2020/Beads.jpg

the horse is untouched in PS .. but the Beads I did some minimal work
those arent my things of course hehehe :oops:

[Lagged2Death]

You don't need MORE lights. You just need DIRECTIONAL light. (And of course the mini-mag will work great for this exercise.)

I'm a photography newbie, but I have tried taking some up-close pictures by the light of a flashlight. You can certainly get some interesting effects, and you have good control of exactly where the shadows will land. It can be fun, although you'll need pretty long exposures - flashlights are awfully dim by photography standards.

I'd like to very presumptuously offer a couple of tips:

Consider AA rather than AAA lights. You get a better runtime, and if you've got a digi-cam that uses NiMh AAs, you can use the AA cells in the flashlight too.

Modern Mag brand lights are state of the art - of 1978. They are dim for their size, and have splotchy yellow beams. The Mini-Mags in particular use vacuum bulbs much akin to the original Edison bulbs of 100 years ago, and go dim and yellow after just a few hours of use. There are better choices, like 6v/4AA halogen/xenon lights (www.brightguy.com/detail.html?sku=PRITEC40HNYCPO) with textured reflectors and creamy-smooth beams, and lithium-powered "tactical" xenons (www.brightguy.com/detail.html?sku=STR85001) (although the tactical lights are pretty expensive to buy and run for a purpose like this).

Of course, if you've got a Mag on hand, by all means, try it out. I just don't think anyone should be encouraged to buy a Mini-Mag for this purpose.

[Lamplight]

Tom, I'm almost positive that one of your "quick Walmart tripods" is similar to my only tripod. :D

<----daydreams of Bogen...


BTW, I took this with a simple overhead flourescent light:

http://community.webshots.com/photo/127013504/127014372Lozmtc

And this was just using sunlight filtering through a translucent plastic roof panel on my back porch:

http://community.webshots.com/photo/127013504/137526785BzHYbH