starting out. advice please?

[jjmucker]

wedding photography is something ive been really considering over the past year and have some questions for the folk who has been doing this line of work.
i will start off by saying ive only ever done one wedding were ive been official photographer which was last oct. i have another one coming up this oct, which im doing for a friend and he asked me at the end of last year. the wedding is over in spain and have agreed to do free of charge as long as he pays flights,board, cost of prints etc. im really excited about this and will be a GREAT experience for me. by then i will have either the 400d or 30D so i have 2 bodies as well as probably purchasing the canon 17-55 IS and selling my sigma 17-70

after this wedding then i will know for definite that this is what im wanting to do as a career. now for some questions regarding "preparation" for doing weddings. please bare with me :D

say for example i get a phone call from someone asking me to do thier wedding.
this is how i'd imagine the process..

you arrange to meet the, to be bride and groom at their home.
you ask them questions and take notes about how many is in the wedding party, ie, how many bridesmaids, flower girls,pageboys etc.
are both sets of parents attending the wedding (they may have passed away for example), what about both sets of grandparents?
by taking these type of notes you can then make a list up of what formal shots you know you will be taking on the day.
also make a list up of any other type of shots. (candids,fun pics etc)
write down possible locations of where to take the wedding party for these shots.
of course obviously making sure they are happy with the prices/packages you are given them.
attending the wedding rehersals to be sure were you will be "pitched" during the ceremony etc.

is this type of thing common practice for wedding photographers. like making up a list of who's in the wedding, asking a lot of questions for the B&G to answer,drawing up a list of possible locations etc or am i going too deep here.
i guess everyone is different in regards to this but im really interested in what you guys actaully do after recieving the phone call from the B&G.
any advice will be excellent for me and im sure other folk will be interested to hear what you guys do.
thanks for reading and looking forward to some help and advice
:D

[tim]

Sounds like a good plan, get the 30D and grip I rekon. 17-55 is great. Couple thoughts:
- I meet people in my home office, I don't have time to go to see everyone who wants to meet me. If they really want you they'll come to you.
- Why does it matter how many are in the wedding party? Except to start conversation. I ask about venues, what kind of photography, other things about their day.
- I ask them to supply list of group shots, and I decide formal shots on the day unless they specially request some.
- Write a list of candids?! :p
- Run through your package, prices, what's included, upgrades, etc. Keep it simple to start with.
- I don't go to rehearsals unless there's a really, really good reason. I've been to enough weddings I know what's going to happen now. For a culture i'd not photographed before, or for weird locations, maybe, but I might charge them for it.

Rest looks good.

Also, FAQ here: http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?p=2453681

[Banbert]

Myself and my business partner are very much newbies to all this (its our first year) so take everything I say with that knowledge in hand, but heres what we do anyway.

We started up middle of last year and have done quite a few client meetings now (about 30 at last count) and nearly all of those have resulted in bookings, probably to a large extent because were very cheap but I guess we also come across quite well. This years our portfolio builidng year.

Whenever we get an enquiry by phone or via the website we offer to meet the potential clients at their house, the venue or at my place. Meeting at the venues was something that we thought clients may like and also because it was our first year it gave us a way to get round the venues to suss them out and also to meet the managers/wedding planners at those venues. Much better to meet them with a "hi were here talking to Miss xxxxx and Mr xxxxxx about shooting their wedding here later this year" than a cold call on spec.

At the client meetings we show our portfolio items and talk about what they are looking for from the photography and talk to them about our philosophy and the way we shoot weddings. If were meeting at the venue we usually have a walk around the venue together and this gives us a chance to show our enthusiasm at the shot opportunities that we will have at the venue they have chosen.

During the client meeting and generally as they are looking through the portfolio, album and slideshow we run through a form that I have knocked up and write down the details which allow us to quote for coverage and also records all the details we will need beforehand and on the day itself.

heres the form we go through > http://www.boundlessphotos.co.uk/wip/boundlessquote.pdf

Walking through the timings of the wedding day is one of the main parts as this is where we discuss when they want the coverage to start and end. Its always interesting to see how much prep and thought B&G's have put into all this before hand and it varies massively. We have B&G'S turn up with excel spreadsheets of the timings and scrap books of photos that they have cut from mazgines that they like, and similairly we have B&G's that turn up who arent even sure what time the wedding will be, never mind any other timings.

Either way we try and help them picture how the day will run and how we will fit in nicely with that. :)

30D > 400D .... no dial on the 400D so its slow and a faff going through menues and chimping photos, plus it doesnt feel half as substanial or well made.

[jjmucker]

thanks for the comments and advice guys. really appreciated.
the list i wrote up is somehing that i just thought that folk would do, as ive never done this before. the wedding i did last year was quite low key and i didnt charge much as i had little or no experience. the one over in spain this oct is for a friend so i will be pretty relaxed but really looking forward to getting some great shots over there. the real challenge is when i meet up with 2 folk ive never met before and going over all the things, like lists ,checklists etc.
maybe after a dozen or so weddings i wont need these types of lists and stuff, i just think this would really help when starting out.
do you think it looks unproffessional to carry a shot list around during the wedding?
i also thought every photographer went to the rehersals, i suppose the more experenced you are theres really no need eh.
again, thanks for the advice guys. anything else would be most helpful :D

[Phil V]

Shot lists are really dependant on experience and shooting style. I have a (small and in my memory) list of 'must have' shots for the formals (I'll ask the B&G if there's anything peculiar to add to this). However, we spend 20mins max on the formals and I shoot for 8-12hrs. So that's not really a big part of our day.
Whether it's 'unprofessional' to carry a shot list is really dependant on your style, no two weddings are the same for me (as a PJ photographer) so a pre written list would be an impossibility. If your shooting style involves setting up lots of shots, whether for traditional or fashion type shooting, then a lot of pre planning and notes could be invaluable.

I've never attended wedding rehearsals, mostly because I know what a wedding service goes like, I'd ask the B&G if there was going to be anything out of the ordinary to look out for.

[Banbert]

thanks for the comments and advice guys. really appreciated.
the list i wrote up is somehing that i just thought that folk would do, as ive never done this before. the wedding i did last year was quite low key and i didnt charge much as i had little or no experience. the one over in spain this oct is for a friend so i will be pretty relaxed but really looking forward to getting some great shots over there. the real challenge is when i meet up with 2 folk ive never met before and going over all the things, like lists ,checklists etc.
maybe after a dozen or so weddings i wont need these types of lists and stuff, i just think this would really help when starting out.
do you think it looks unproffessional to carry a shot list around during the wedding?
i also thought every photographer went to the rehersals, i suppose the more experenced you are theres really no need eh.
again, thanks for the advice guys. anything else would be most helpful :D

We have our first wedding of 2007 in April and then it goes mad for us for 6 months with 2, 3, 4 and even 5 some months, this is our first season and myself and my shooting partner are very new to this. I will deffo be carrying some cards with shot lists on that we have written up for when things are moving fast and I want prompts. I personally dont think theres anything wrong with that and what I will be using will be small and pocketable withs mall writing so it cant be read from a distance so people wont know what they are ... for all they know I could be checking latitudes or position of the sun :)

[sblais]

... please bare with me

What kind of wedding photography are you into?? :D :lol:

Congrats on that second gig and welcome to the fast-paced world of wedding photography!

Here's how I proceed with clients meetings:

- I usually meet them at a quiet coffee shop. We greet them, offer them something to drink and sit down with them. Chat about different general topic subjects, asking them questions about themselves, thus encouraging them to participate in the discussion. It makes them feel comfortable.

- When it feels appropriate, I let them know how I want to proceed with the meeting (portfolio, packages, business practice and contract). I present them my albums, portfolio, etc. When they are done looking through it all, I ask if they have any questions. Then I follow with my packages and my business (the way I do things, philosophy behing my approach to wedding photography, etc.) by presenting them with a flyer that they can take home. And we discuss their needs and requirements. I present them with a wedding information sheet that they can fill out on their own time as well as a wedding photography checklist.

Then I present them with the contract and go through it all with them. I try to do it as quickly as possible (knowing your contract from A-Z is a good way to cut down on this section) and keeping everything simple. Once done, I ask them if they have any more questions.

- Finally, I end with more questions about themselves (general topic and wedding related) to end the meeting. They have a copy of all documents and can review it at their own time.

I try to get a personal meeting with my clients. It's more costly in terms of time but I find that it makes my life easier in the long run and I get to know my clients in more depth. It helps creating bonds with my clients, which is what I'm looking for. You CAN be friendly in business ;)

For the wedding day, my wife and I memorize the names of the wedding party and immediate family so it makes it easier on us and them (instead of saying "hey, thingamajig, it's your turn for the photo!") and creates a friendlier atmosphere. I usually do bring a checklist with me but so far, I've almost never used it. I tend to review it (my wife reading it to me while I drive) on our way from the ceremony to the formals, but that's it. There is no time reading through it otherwise. I prefer to be alert and take good candid shots than to be stuck reading a list of photographs to take and miss out on some special moments.

Overall, my clients usually thank me for taking some time with them and this is one comment that I get a lot. I do take the time necessary to do things right with my clients.

[jjmucker]

thanks sblais. all of this will be taking onboard and is great advice.

[sblais]

thanks sblais. all of this will be taking onboard and is great advice.

No problem! BTW, this is the way I do it, but you have to find a way that you are comfortable with. That's very important as well. Be confident in what you do and do things your way. There are no rules in business. Only expectations from potential clients. The way you want to meet these expectations is entirely up to you!

[jjmucker]

yeah. one thing i know for sure is that each person does things there own way and in a way were they feel comfortable.
its just good to get an insight in ways other people do things. especially when just starting out.
thanks

[Time Thief]

presenting them with a flyer that they can take home.

. I present them with a wedding information sheet that they can fill out on their own time as well as a wedding photography checklist.

Then I present them with the contract and go through it all with them. .

Thanks for sharing the info. I too am just starting and am finding the help here just great. You wouldn't want to share a copy of some of these would you? I am in the process of trying to come up with my own contracts and information sheets. Just kinda curious as to what extra little things different people put in their contracts.

[sblais]

Thanks for sharing the info. I too am just starting and am finding the help here just great. You wouldn't want to share a copy of some of these would you? I am in the process of trying to come up with my own contracts and information sheets. Just kinda curious as to what extra little things different people put in their contracts.

Contracts:

First, I would recommend that you speak to your local professional photographer association for templates. They may require you to register to their association, but it certainly won't hurt you (other than for the membership fee ;)). Or hire a lawyer to write one for you (may be even more expensive than the membership fee and you don't get more benefits from it!)

If you don't feel like you are ready for this step, then you can Google the following contract "wedding photography" filetype:PDF and you will find that many photographers have a pdf version of their contract on their websites. You can get inspiration from there (disclamer: not all of these contracts contain all clauses to fully protect you and your business)

Checklist and information sheet:

Google the following: "wedding photography checklist" filetype:PDF and "wedding photography information sheet" filetype:PDF and you will get tons of examples to choose from.

I could've PM'd you with my versions, but I figure that providing you with tools may help you more in the long run ;) Adding the filetype in Google is a powerful plus to your searches!

[slappy sam]

sblais, just wanted to let you know that after reading your first post I was pretty impressed. I think if I was a client I'd really appreciate what you do as far as the planning and meeting goes. It seems very professional, yet relaxed and friendly at the same time. :)

[sblais]

Why thank you! :oops: It's very appreciated, but I'm sure that there are many photographers out there (and on this forum ;)) who do just the same.

sblais, just wanted to let you know that after reading your first post I was pretty impressed. I think if I was a client I'd really appreciate what you do as far as the planning and meeting goes. It seems very professional, yet relaxed and friendly at the same time. :)

[SidinUSA]

When I did weddings in England (South Yorkshire) I used to go with the wedding party to at least one of the rehersals. This gave me a chance to vet the site and work out good picture locations and to meet the Vicar. There is nothing like being informed 5 minutes before the bride walks up the aisle that there is no photography allowed. Also talking politely to the Vicar he can tell you where you can get a ggod view while the wedding party are signing the register.
I used to take my camera with me to the rehersals, it gave me an idea of the lighting, where the light be coming from through the windows, what lenses I could use to capture the bridal party. Once you have completed a couple of weddings at that particular church you dont need to attend the rehersals any more as you already have the knowlege.

[tim]

There is nothing like being informed 5 minutes before the bride walks up the aisle that there is no photography allowed. Also talking politely to the Vicar he can tell you where you can get a ggod view while the wedding party are signing the register.

How does finding out 2 days before the ceremony make any difference from finding out 5 minutes before? I personally arrive at least 15 minutes before the ceremony, unpack my equipment (in case the bride's early), then go straight to the celebrant/priest/person standing at the front of the church and ask first if they have any rules or preferences, and then the rough outline of the ceremony. Works fine :)

[jjmucker]

When I did weddings in England (South Yorkshire) I used to go with the wedding party to at least one of the rehersals. This gave me a chance to vet the site and work out good picture locations and to meet the Vicar. There is nothing like being informed 5 minutes before the bride walks up the aisle that there is no photography allowed. Also talking politely to the Vicar he can tell you where you can get a ggod view while the wedding party are signing the register.
I used to take my camera with me to the rehersals, it gave me an idea of the lighting, where the light be coming from through the windows, what lenses I could use to capture the bridal party. Once you have completed a couple of weddings at that particular church you dont need to attend the rehersals any more as you already have the knowlege.

i actually agree with sidinusa but thats because im quite inexperienced and doing this helps me greatly for the points sidinusa has mentioned already. (lighting, best view point etc)
i suppose everyone has there own preference and no one is right and no one is wrong eh :D