10D - Standard or Adobe RGB?

[jukas]

I'm trying to get more and more familiar with my 10D and some of the custom features. I'm curious about the paramaters menu option. Currently it's set on Standard but I"m wondering what Adobe RGB setting is all about.

I've tried the RTFM method, and it seems vague at best. Can someone enlighten me?

[Ferdinand]

Adobe RGB :)

[Rob Larsen]

Those settings apply only to the JPEG images -- not the RAW. For RAW images, the enhancements are available to adjust at time of conversion in your computer using the Canon File Viewer of other software (Capture One DSLR, Breezebrowser, PS Raw Converter, etc...).

Adobe RGB is a wide gamut colorspace that is most appropriate if you are planning on editing your images and/or printing them. sRGB is a better color space if you are publishing your images solely to the web. Many folks that are shooting JPEG with a workflow that does not involve post processing will tweek these settings to tailor their images to thier preference right in the camera.

Personally, I shoot mostly all RAW so I am not the best authority on these settings.

[psk4363]

Hi Jukas,

Like Rob I shoot in RAW 99% of the time so the colour space choice at the time of pressing the shutter button is somewhat irrelevant as that choice can be made in the RAW converter software later.

A 'wide gamut colorspace' merely means that Adobe RGB can 'recognise' more colours than SRGB. Imagine a rounded triangle representing all the colours possible (the colorspace), SRGB is represented by a similar shaped triangle within the main one but only covering, say, 50% of those colours (I don't know the exact percentage). Within that mian one (the colourspace), Adobe RGB also has a similar shaped triangle but covering, again say, 60% of the colours. So Adobe RGB 'recognises' more colours than SRGB.

So the reason why most pros choose Adobe RGB for editing and eventual printing is that they have more colours to play with - such a high number is not needed if you merely intend to publish images on the web.

I realise that is a very simplistic explanation and I don't intend to cause offence in stating it but I hope that it has helped you.

Cheers,
Barry

[jukas]

Hi Jukas,

Like Rob I shoot in RAW 99% of the time so the colour space choice at the time of pressing the shutter button is somewhat irrelevant as that choice can be made in the RAW converter software later.

A 'wide gamut colorspace' merely means that Adobe RGB can 'recognise' more colours than SRGB. Imagine a rounded triangle representing all the colours possible (the colorspace), SRGB is represented by a similar shaped triangle within the main one but only covering, say, 50% of those colours (I don't know the exact percentage). Within that mian one (the colourspace), Adobe RGB also has a similar shaped triangle but covering, again say, 60% of the colours. So Adobe RGB 'recognises' more colours than SRGB.

So the reason why most pros choose Adobe RGB for editing and eventual printing is that they have more colours to play with - such a high number is not needed if you merely intend to publish images on the web.

I realise that is a very simplistic explanation and I don't intend to cause offence in stating it but I hope that it has helped you.

Cheers,
Barry

Barry, et al

So if I understand you correctly, basically SRGB does similar to a jpg image in that it takes similar colors and assigns it the same color (i.e very similar shades of green, would simply be recognized as the same shade of green) where as Adobe RGB and Raw Format recognize many more individual color shades?

Currently I'm shooting in Large/Fine and haven't made the jump to RAW formatting yet, partially because I only have a 512mb CF card, and partically because I don't fully understand how to work with a RAW formatted image yet.

Thanks for the info, and no offense taken ;)

[defordphoto]

If you're working in Photoshop and printing out of Photoshop then by all means use AdobeRGB. Most (not all) other software other than Adobe products do not recognize AdobeRGB.

The web, and most other software, including most display software for your computer is optimized for sRGB.

[jukas]

If you're working in Photoshop and printing out of Photoshop then by all means use AdobeRGB.

Hrm, does this mean that if I use Photoshop to crop and modify the image, and then take it to a local photo place to have it printed, I should consider using SRGB instead of AdobeRGB? I had assumed (uh oh) that in either SRGB or AdobeRGB that if I used photoshop to modify the image, and then saved it to a .jpg (not working with RAW yet), that I wouldn't have any issues getting it printed, regardless of where I took it. Now you've got me wondering.

Can anyone point me to good references on learning about the RAW format? Most of the people I've talked to seem to prefer the RAW format, but I don't understand it atm.

Sorry for the novice questions, I'm trying to learn as much as I can :D

[Ferdinand]

You can process in Adobe RGB and then convert to sRGB before you take it to an outside shop to have it printed.

As for me I have a pretty accurate printer profile, so I work in Adobe RGB and just let my printer color manage the color.

Regards,
Ferdinand.

[Rob Larsen]

Hrm, does this mean that if I use Photoshop to crop and modify the image, and then take it to a local photo place to have it printed, I should consider using SRGB instead of AdobeRGB? I had assumed (uh oh) that in either SRGB or AdobeRGB that if I used photoshop to modify the image, and then saved it to a .jpg (not working with RAW yet), that I wouldn't have any issues getting it printed, regardless of where I took it. Now you've got me wondering.


The only time I use sRGB is for on screen viewing applications. I edit and leave my file in Adobe RGB for all printing applications. Most print shops have printers that can best interpolate Adobe RGB into the colors their device supports. Since each printer has it's own unique color reproduction capabilities, you might as well leave your file in Adobe RGB to minimize the number of times the colors in your file will be translated.

Since you seem to be a newcomer to PS and color management, I will defer the topics of printer profiles and soft proofing at this time. But, as you get more comfortable with PS and color management theory, you will want to explore those subjects.

To boil this all down, I always leave my files in Adobe RGB and will create a special sRGB "web version" when needed.

On another note, if you are working with jpegs, make sure that when you open one in PS that you save it in PSD or TIF format during the editing process. Each time you save a jpeg it gets recompressed and looses some image quality.

[Jesper]

Adobe RGB is a color space. On the Standard setting, you're using a different color space (sRGB).

If you want to know exactly what color spaces are and why you'd want to choose one or another, you'll need to learn what color management is all about.

To start with, have a look at this info:
Color management and color science: introduction (http://www.normankoren.com/color_management.html) on Norman Koren's website
CMS for Beginners (http://www.rogercavanagh.com/helpinfo/33_cmsjoe.htm) on Roger Cavanagh's website

There are also several books available about this subject, for example:
Real World Color Management (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0201773406/qid=1080328068/sr=8-1/ref=pd_ka_1/102-3405470-7186538?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) by Bruce Fraser et al.

[Spatch]

Hi Guys,

First post :D . I am looking to get started in photography and currently own a 10D with 17-40L lens plus other bits and bobs. I then download images to my computer where I use Photoshop and then print to a Canon i950 printer.

I am curious whether I should be using the 10D in Adobe RGB, then using photoshop in Adobe RGB profile (and also printer in ARGB if possible). Currently I work in sRGB throughout and I have profiled the monitor and printer (printer colour management is set to sRGB) etc and get reasonable results (but I have noticed that some colours do not match exactly).

This being said, I would prefer to work in ARGB as the range of colours are better. However, when viewing ARGB images on the monitor the colour is very flat and lacking in colour (I have been advised that this would occur).

Can anyone advise if it is just a matter of reprofiling the monitor and printer to work in ARGB.

Any advice would be gratefully received as I want the colour to be as good as possible as I am planning to sell prints of portriats that I have taken.

Cheers
Mark.

[maderito]

However, when viewing ARGB images on the monitor the colour is very flat and lacking in colour (I have been advised that this would occur).

Can anyone advise if it is just a matter of reprofiling the monitor and printer to work in ARGB.


Adobe RGB color numbers examined in a sRGB color space tend to look drab. Your monitor is calibrated for sRGB and, most likely, in Photoshop you are working in sRGB color space (or Monitor).

You have to set the Photoshop working RGB space to Adobe RGB (not sRGB or Monitor) to properly view an Adobe RGB image. Goto Edit/Color Settings.

You can visualize the difference by assigning different profiles to the same image. Set the Photoshop working space to Adobe RGB. Then goto Image/Mode/Assign Profile and see the difference between assigning Adobe RGB vs. sRGB profiles to an image. Use any of your images or download the Adobe RGB image in this directory: http://raph.levien.com/files/

When converting an image from Adobe RGB to sRGB, the situation changes. The conversion "engine" maps the Adobe color to an sRGB color that comes very close (to our eye) -- but the numbers may be very different. For instance, I just checked and the Adobe RGB color 191,47,46 maps to the sRGB number 222,43,42. The second number, when viewed in sRGB space, is indistinguishable to my eye from the first viewed in Adobe RGB.

Thus, the two color spaces do not represent the same color number identically. You have to be careful to view a color within the color space it was intended. Adobe RGB images intended for web viewing should be converted to sRGB images -- as previously suggested by others. That conversion is made via Image/Mode/Convert to Profile.

BTW -- you don't have to reprofile your monitor. Saved that for last. :)

[Spatch]

Thanks for that. It seems to be OK now, I now just have problems with black and white. I will post another thread.