How much advertised tripod weight do I REALLY need?

[JaGWiRE]

My friend and I have been talking. He owns a 200 f2 and gitzo 1325 tripod with RRS-55 head. It's not a light setup by anymeans, he uses his D2H with that lens on it, and it is a solid setup.
The thing supports like 25 pounds. I am looking into upgrading my tripod to something more solid, and something that will support the upcoming 70-200 2.8 IS and possibly 300 2.8L IS.
My friend has me convinced that I need something that supports 20lb+ for optimum stability. He said go with something that supports at least 2x what your gear weighs.
Now the RRS-40 head seems promising, but for the actual tripod, I'm in, well, a rut.
It seems if I want 20lb +, I have to go either heavy aluminium / carbon fiber from induro or benro, or not that heavy gitzo (4.5 for the G1325 I believe, about 1/2lb heavier then competitor tripods), but quite expensive.
So other then the 1325, here are some other tripods that I guess will, well, work.
http://www.vistek.ca/details/details.aspx?WebCode=228097&CategoryID=ProPhotoTripods (not that much cheaper then a gitzo, if cheaper)
http://www.vistek.ca/details/details.aspx?WebCode=227527&CategoryID=ProPhotoTripods (cheaper, specs look okay)
and then back from induro, could always go aluminium http://www.vistek.ca/details/details.aspx?WebCode=228108&CategoryID=ProPhotoTripods (a little heavy, looks like 3/4lb heavier then it's CF equivalent)

So it seems like no matter which way I go, I am looking at near 5lb for the legs (4.5lb for the g1325 which seem to be the lightest) if I want something that supports atleast 20+ lbs.
Out of all those, the induro aluminium looks pretty promising, but do I really need the 20lb+ limit? Is my friend right when he says you need that for stability? If I am willing to budge, and go for something a little lighter that supports 17 lb, I have more options, and can get away with a more portable setup, such as the this tripod
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart&A=details&Q=&sku=473491&is=REG
or I believe 258 in Canada ( http://www.vistek.ca/details/details.aspx?WebCode=227526&CategoryID=ProPhotoTripods )

So what do you think? Will the 300 2.8L IS if I ever get it, and a MK II N be too heavy for one of the 17lb tripods that are available at quite afforderable prices? I'm not sure which of these third praty gitzo-like tripods have that removable center column where you can still use the tripod without the center column like my friends g1325, but if the price difference is going to be substantial between the gitzo and third praty tripods, I can pass on the removable center column.

[SkipD]

My tripod recommendation for general purpose use is the Bogen/Manfrotto 3021BPro (known as the 055ProB outside the U.S.) topped off with the Bogen/Manfrotto 488RC2 ball head.

This is a very sturdy combination with enough height for most folks.

It is an extremely versatile tripod/head combination, with many ways to support a camera. You can put a camera over a short wall, directly above a table pointing down, inches above the ground, etc

The 488RC2 ball head has a feature that should not be ignored. That is the separate release for "panning". You can loosen the lever and rotate the camera horizontally without releasing the ball. This is great for scenic panoramic shots.

There are advantages to the ball head that may not be immediately apparent. One is the ease of packing/carrying the rig without various handles getting in the way. Another is the speed and simplicity of aiming the camera with only one control to mess with.

Here’s the combination at B&H: 3021BPro/488RC2 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=353322&is=REG&addedTroughType=search/)

I use this combination with my 20D/grip and 70-200 f/2.8L IS and a 1.4x extender. It is plenty sturdy. My Bogen/Manfrotto 3051 is a bit sturdier, but is twice the weight and overkill for most field use.

The tripod you posted a link to is a lot shorter than the 3021, and that could easily be a drawback at times.

[JaGWiRE]

My tripod recommendation for general purpose use is the Bogen/Manfrotto 3021BPro (known as the 055ProB outside the U.S.) topped off with the Bogen/Manfrotto 488RC2 ball head.

This is a very sturdy combination with enough height for most folks.

It is an extremely versatile tripod/head combination, with many ways to support a camera. You can put a camera over a short wall, directly above a table pointing down, inches above the ground, etc

The 488RC2 ball head has a feature that should not be ignored. That is the separate release for "panning". You can loosen the lever and rotate the camera horizontally without releasing the ball. This is great for scenic panoramic shots.

There are advantages to the ball head that may not be immediately apparent. One is the ease of packing/carrying the rig without various handles getting in the way. Another is the speed and simplicity of aiming the camera with only one control to mess with.

Here’s the combination at B&H: 3021BPro/488RC2 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=353322&is=REG&addedTroughType=search/)

I use this combination with my 20D/grip and 70-200 f/2.8L IS and a 1.4x extender. It is plenty sturdy. My Bogen/Manfrotto 3051 is a bit sturdier, but is twice the weight and overkill for most field use.

The tripod you posted a link to is a lot shorter than the 3021, and that could easily be a drawback at times.
The overall length doesn't matter, my 3001pro is pretty good for me, I'm short, 5'2 maybe.
Regardless, I have a 3001, my next legs won't be manfrotto. Not that I'm dissapointed, but the 3021 are huge, I've seen them, and they are quite heavy, and their load capacity isn't up to what other manufacters seem to be offering.

[SkipD]

The overall length doesn't matter, my 3001pro is pretty good for me, I'm short, 5'2 maybe.
Regardless, I have a 3001, my next legs won't be manfrotto. Not that I'm dissapointed, but the 3021 are huge, I've seen them, and they are quite heavy, and their load capacity isn't up to what other manufacters seem to be offering."Load capacity" can be a misleading number, depending on the integrity and marketing thinking of the manufacturer.

There is no standard that I am aware of that would let you compare tripods from different manufacturers based solely on the "load capacity". One manufacturer could, for example, provide a rating that is the greatest weight that could safely be supported without risk of crushing the tripod. Another, on the other hand, could be advertising the maximum weight of average equipment that can be supported in a steady fashion on their tripods. There might be significantly different numbers applied by both companies to identical tripods and we, the consumers, would never know how to compare the specs from the various companies.

What I can tell you from firsthand experience is that the package I suggested is very solid and at the same time extremely versatile. I have used mine in so many different ways that I doubt I can recall them all. In all cases, the camera was supported quite steadily.

Before buying a tripod - especially a super light spindly one, even the $600 carbon fiber Gitzo that a salesman showed me - test them out. Put a camera with a long lens on each and rap on the front of the lens while looking through the viewfinder. The one that stops vibrating the quickest is the one I would choose, all else being the same.

[DocFrankenstein]

Benro is a piece of cr#p.
Your friend is right.
1325 is a once in a lifetime purchase. You buy it once and it works forever. It holds the camera steady.

Frottos are a notch lower on quality and have less capacity per weight.

[JaGWiRE]

Benro is a piece of cr#p.
Your friend is right.
1325 is a once in a lifetime purchase. You buy it once and it works forever. It holds the camera steady.

Frottos are a notch lower on quality and have less capacity per weight.
Um, Doc, I have nothing against you, but your not going to add anything? It looks like there are some quality gitzo knockoffs on the market. What about that aluminium induro?
A lot of people on dpreview have been praising benro and other companies..
Skip, I guess I should head down to vistek one of these days. The 055 is humongous though. Not sure if any of these are as big, but those are too big for my usage, and myself for that matter.

[DocFrankenstein]

What do you want me to add exactly?

It does look like there are good knockoffs. I haven't handled induro ever... nor heard about it. Vistek rents them though, so they must be ok.

I know for a fact that benro is a piece of crap. I have their ballhead and it's plastic. I can tighten it completely and still be able to shift it with my bare hands. Their tripod sure looks like a gitzo, but I'm sure it's not built like it.

My actual gitzo tripod has a ballbearing and metal washers on the column tigtening mechanism. It will not wear and even if it does after a couple hundred years of use, it's wear compensating. There's no way any knockoff will give attention to those details. Gitzo also has a lifetime warranty, benro doesn't have any.

Read the doughnut vibration paper. Gitzo is that expensive because of the way it's built on the inside - not because it looks cool.

I can compare tripods with firearms. They're pretty simple in theory - just a tube with a little hammer. Even for the bolt fed rifles the prices vary from 100 bucks to ten thousand. There's always a difference in quality, accuracy and handling to be felt when you spend that extra buck.

Gitzo's price is up there for a reason. The forumites on DPreview are not the beacon of truth.

[JaGWiRE]

What do you want me to add exactly?

It does look like there are good knockoffs. I haven't handled induro ever... nor heard about it. Vistek rents them though, so they must be ok.

I know for a fact that benro is a piece of crap. I have their ballhead and it's plastic. I can tighten it completely and still be able to shift it with my bare hands. Their tripod sure looks like a gitzo, but I'm sure it's not built like it.

My actual gitzo tripod has a ballbearing and metal washers on the column tigtening mechanism. It will not wear and even if it does after a couple hundred years of use, it's wear compensating. There's no way any knockoff will give attention to those details. Gitzo also has a lifetime warranty, benro doesn't have any.

Read the doughnut vibration paper. Gitzo is that expensive because of the way it's built on the inside - not because it looks cool.

I can compare tripods with firearms. They're pretty simple in theory - just a tube with a little hammer. Even for the bolt fed rifles the prices vary from 100 bucks to ten thousand. There's always a difference in quality, accuracy and handling to be felt when you spend that extra buck.

Gitzo's price is up there for a reason. The forumites on DPreview are not the beacon of truth.
Fair enough, but Benro heads are said to be **** everywhere, their tripods however are getting positive notice it seems.

[DocFrankenstein]

I can't decide for you. I'm sure a benro won't fall apart in the first few months of use, but beyond that it might be a lottery.

[JaGWiRE]

I can't decide for you. I'm sure a benro won't fall apart in the first few months of use, but beyond that it might be a lottery.
I'm still looking at my options. I'm not sure if vistek stocks these in stores, I'd love to take a look at them though. The store on queen street is weirdly setup though (it's in like a house or something, really weird.)
It might be a lottery, but if I get the one for say $200 USD, it's not that much to lose. I have plans to get a good ball head regardless (RRS 40 or 55, depends I guess on which tripod, no point in getting the 55 for a tripod that supports 18lb.)

[DocFrankenstein]

yeah, they have a couple of benro tripods kicking around.

I like the queen store setup. It's original and not the standard warehouse model. I wonder what the original house was like.

[JaGWiRE]

yeah, they have a couple of benro tripods kicking around.

I like the queen store setup. It's original and not the standard warehouse model. I wonder what the original house was like.
Yeah. Well Vistek originates from Calgary anyway I think.

[onBit]

Upgraded from a cruddy Velbon to a Gitzo1257 and what a difference. First off its carbon fiber and very light so i don't consider NOT taking it along. The setup is very quick, one turn and the leg extends completely, with a 1/4 turn at each joint to tighten. Once setup the 5d+f2.8 70-200mm is very sturdy on top of a 468mgrc2 ball head with quick release. A center hook to hang some extra weight to really stabilize things.

I did look hard at the Manfrotto 3021& the 55 but after many tests in the store I did not like clipping the clamp down on the legs.

The price was high but after using this setup on a few hikes and in bad weather it was worth the price. I don't have any regrets, especially after living with a cruddy tripod for some time.

[JaGWiRE]

Upgraded from a cruddy Velbon to a Gitzo1257 and what a difference. First off its carbon fiber and very light so i don't consider NOT taking it along. The setup is very quick, one turn and the leg extends completely, with a 1/4 turn at each joint to tighten. Once setup the 5d+f2.8 70-200mm is very sturdy on top of a 468mgrc2 ball head with quick release. A center hook to hang some extra weight to really stabilize things.

I did look hard at the Manfrotto 3021& the 55 but after many tests in the store I did not like clipping the clamp down on the legs.

The price was high but after using this setup on a few hikes and in bad weather it was worth the price. I don't have any regrets, especially after living with a cruddy tripod for some time.
I think the main problem with me is what advertised load capacity, and what tripods will actually support the weight of my soon to be setup (30D + 70-200 2.8L IS) and possible future setup (MK II N + 300 f2.8L IS.)

[foxbat]

You're spending upwards of $6100 on gear and you want to skimp on the tripod? Buy once, buy the Gitzo.

[JaGWiRE]

You're spending upwards of $6100 on gear and you want to skimp on the tripod? Buy once, buy the Gitzo.
LOL. Well, I don't know, you are probably right, but if there are third party alternatives that will do the job just as well at a fraction of the cost I am not going to eliminate them from the whole picture. I'm not so sure I'm getting the 300 2.8L IS, but I'd like to be prepared in case I guess.

[ron42838]

Have a look at Tripod Legs offered on Ebay. I won a bid on the leg set from Amvona, AT-858B alum. legs. Using Ebay site and not their home site. They are not light, however, they are very well built and will do the job. With the money saved, you can get a better head. Check out the site and you will see the specification details.
Ron42838