New Guy's First Questions: Fast 200mm for the D30

[ShutteringFocus]

Hello everyone :D

I am new around here. Im 16 and I am pretty much obsessed with photography 8)

I have a Canon D30 that I bought from a friend who is one of those "buy the newest model" guys.

I bought a Sigma 28-135 3.8-5.6 to go with it. So far its been a good lens...although I must say I haven't gotten any prints made. But they look good on my computer here.

Now I have been bitten by the "gear bug" :twisted:

I would like to get a good fast 200mm lens for a wide variety of reasons.

I'd like to shoot school sports for the school newspaper and also have some serious zoom power for wildlife and such. (which I could get with a converter on a 200mm and my 1.6x crop factor)

I have been doing research around here and there and I think I have decided that a fast lens is better than an Image Stabilized one. For indoor basketball and nighttime football I need the action stopping power of a fast shutter.

Lenses I have looked at:

Canon 70-200 4.0L (pretty much out because it's 4.0 and expensive)
Sigma 70-200 2.8
Tonika 80-200 2.8

I basically have $400 which could be really stretched to $500 if I absolutely needed too. So I have to go used I think.

My questions?

Are there any other lenses I should look into?

Does anyone know of a good On-line used gear dealer?

How do the Sigma and Tonika stack up to one another?

[CyberDyneSystems]

The Sigma seems to be more highly regarded in the "online circles" compared to the Tokina. I have no personal experience with the Tokina,. but I owned the Sigma and was very impressed.

$400.00 will be tough, though even used.

Check www.keh.com

I think for a bout $550.00 the Canon f/4 can be had.

[Pekka]

For indoor basketball and nighttime football I need the action stopping power of a fast shutter

Canon 85/1.8 and 135/2 or 70-200/2.8 are usual choices for those arenas (optimal lens would be 200/1.8 if you can find and afford one).

Canon 4L is too slow for those events. So a good choice would be that Sigma 70-200. Check also Canon 100/2.

Serious zoom power for wildlife is a different matter. 100-400 IS is the usual tool, and sigma has a 50-500 which many like a lot.

[daaaveman]

You really want to pull together the money for the Sigma 70-200 EX if you can. It's exactly what you need. It's high quality and fast enough for the indoor work you want to do. It's very popular tho so you're going to be lucky to get one used. There are none on ebay right now. The new price at B&H is $739. I know this is out of the range you're looking at but my thought is that you might want to work to save the extra $$. Mow some lawns, clean some garages, work some overtime, detail some cars, whatever might be available to you. If you show people you're really serious about this, they will take you seriously and work to help you. If you work hard, you should be able to pull together the extra $$ in a few weeks.....no blowing it on girls tho, lenses are more important and lots less trouble!! Last but not least, don't go for the cheapest online retailer to save the $$. You'll end up with nothing.

One other thought, you could go to your local camera shop and put it on lay-away. You'll end up paying tax on it but you won't spend the money on something else (maybe I'm just thinking back to how irresponsible I was at 16) and you'll get the local support after the purchase....


Best of luck. If there's no way to swing the Sigma, I'd look close at the consumer primes in your price range. Although I have heard that the Tokina is decent too, just not up to par with the Sigma. If you've caught the bug, you're going to have this lens for a long time.....don't rush into buying one that won't make you happy. It's worth a few weeks and some hard work.

Enough of my rant. I wish you the best..... Come back to visit us here often and let us know how this works out. You're lucky to have found this little corner of the internet. You'll learn a lot.

[Malaxos1]

I have asked the same question about a month or so ago. I even was considering the same lenses. In my research I have found that the Sigma was quite soft wide open and that the sweet spot was at around f8. Being that I wanted the lens for use during weddings where I need a long telephoto it had to be fast. An, if the Sigma wasn't good enough wide open then it wasn't the lens for me. I also did a search on www.photosig.com for photos that were taken with the Sigma and Canon lenses. There was no comparison, the Canon ones looked pro and the Sigmas did not. So, I went for the Canon. I have not regretted it, while f4 isn't amazingly quick, it has served well so far. Here is a link to some photos I took with the Canon 70-200 f4L, I also used the D30. Just the animals were taken with that lens...Dean

http://groups.msn.com/ProfessionalPhotoTalk/deansphotos.msnw?albumlist=2

[ShutteringFocus]

New Idea:

Flash

What if I bought a 420x Flash? Could I use my lens (135x1.6= 216) with the flash and get good results.

Not as good, of course, as the 2.8 lens...but It could take me a while to get to $600...a long while.

Then I would have a 216mm 5.6 with the flash. Would that flash be powerful enough for indoor basketball/nighttime football?

Is there a very negative reaction to the flash from players and such? (ha, if I were shooting film that would be a good pun...NEGATIVE reaction...)

Am I going to get beat up by the football players for shooting flashes at them when they try to catch the ball? :roll:

With the flash being less than $200 I could start now. And then it could hold me over until I get up to $600-$700 for the lens. And at only 216 I would just have to get closer. Maybe get a pass thingy from the newspaper people to let me be on the sidelines.

But only if it would work....

Could I get decent 400 ISO or less at 5.6 with a 420x?

[msvadi]

Are you sure they will let you take pictures with a flash?
In any case, I think that a flash cannot replace good lenses (or even not so good lenses). I would put a flash last on your shopping list. Buy the best lens you can afford. You'll also need some support for the camera (a monopod?).

By the way, regarding the used equipment. Used lenses in good condition cost (on ebay, for example) almost as much as new at B&H. Sometime ago I was hoping to find a good used lens 1/2 price or something. I gave up very fast. It looks like lenses keep their value very good.

KEH has 200mm 2.8 L used for $500 ($620 new and B&H):http://www.keh.com/shop/product.cfm?bid=CE&cid=06&sid=newused&crid=7275504

[Cadwell]

I can't imagine flash would be appreciated. Certainly not during play. I suspect that if you tried it, you would be "invited to leave".

[Avarond]

If your going to be shooting at night under lights "all the time" your going to need a fast lens. I have to crank my f/4 70-200 to 1600 ISO just to get 1/60 sec. under bright lights at the baseball park. During the day its a perfect lens and I can even shoot indoors pretty good especially if im not too worried about the noise and turn up the ISO. But if you want perfectly stopped action at night outside, your probably going to need that faster lens. Maybe someone with a f/2.8 70-200 can tell you what they get under those same conditions.

[ShutteringFocus]

Dang...So I cant sqeak by with a $180 flash... :?

I'm never going to own a car... :lol:

[Belmondo]

I'm never going to own a car... :lol:

True, but you'll be able to take some really great pictures of everything that's within walking distance. :wink:

[timmyquest]

For indoor basketball and nighttime football I need the action stopping power of a fast shutter

Canon 85/1.8 and 135/2 or 70-200/2.8 are usual choices for those arenas (optimal lens would be 200/1.8 if you can find and afford one).

Canon 4L is too slow for those events. So a good choice would be that Sigma 70-200. Check also Canon 100/2.

Serious zoom power for wildlife is a different matter. 100-400 IS is the usual tool, and sigma has a 50-500 which many like a lot.

I dont know why, because people have told me this same thing many times...but i think i'd be better off just getting the 70-200 and an extender.

200mm is prolly good enough for highschool football games.

[ShutteringFocus]

"True, but you'll be able to take some really great pictures of everything that's within walking distance"

The High school is just down the street. 'bout five minute walk. :D

Thanks Much for all the help Ladies and Gentlemen.

I love people with cameras...they are so dang nice!

I think I will penny pinch for a few months...er...years...and Look for one of those 200mm 2.8ers to show up used someplace.

Meanwhile I don't have time to mope around and wish for new junk! I have a 28-135 that works just fine!

Thanks again!