Airshow Gear Advice

[gooble]

I plan on going to Luke Days here in Glendale, AZ in a couple of weeks. I went for the first time several years ago and only had a Fuji S602z. While I was pleased with the shots I got from it at the time, they now look pretty bad overall.

This time, however, I plan on using a Rebel XT (I'd rather have a 30D or better but oh well), an EF 70-200 2.8 with 1.4x TCON which will give me approx 155-450mm, or 112-320 without the TCON. I also plan on using an EF-S 10-22 to get wide angle shots of static displays and will bring a monopod.

Is the reach of the 70-200 plus TCON, or 450mm, typically enough to fill the frame with planes in flight if I'm at the fence line? Can I get by without the TCON with a max reach of 320mm? Is the use of a monopod constricting? Do you find it necessary to attach/remove a monopod frequently? Can you use a monopod and easily pan as planes fly past? How do you feel about using circular polarizers? Do you find that it helps the sky (if clear) or would you rather have an extra stop or two of light? How do you shoot, full manual or shutter priority?

I know that is a lot of questions but any help would be appreciated. I will add that the above-mentioned Fuji had a 210mm 35mm equiv focal length and was really too short where the planes only sat in about a quarter frame or less so I feel 450mm would be a great improvment but really have no way to judge.

[LBaldwin]

I plan on going to Luke Days here in Glendale, AZ in a couple of weeks. I went for the first time several years ago and only had a Fuji S602z. While I was pleased with the shots I got from it at the time, they now look pretty bad overall.

This time, however, I plan on using a Rebel XT (I'd rather have a 30D or better but oh well), an EF 70-200 2.8 with 1.4x TCON which will give me approx 155-450mm, or 112-320 without the TCON. I also plan on using an EF-S 10-22 to get wide angle shots of static displays and will bring a monopod.

Is the reach of the 70-200 plus TCON, or 450mm, typically enough to fill the frame with planes in flight if I'm at the fence line? Can I get by without the TCON with a max reach of 320mm? Is the use of a monopod constricting? Do you find it necessary to attach/remove a monopod frequently? Can you use a monopod and easily pan as planes fly past? How do you feel about using circular polarizers? Do you find that it helps the sky (if clear) or would you rather have an extra stop or two of light? How do you shoot, full manual or shutter priority?

I know that is a lot of questions but any help would be appreciated. I will add that the above-mentioned Fuji had a 210mm 35mm equiv focal length and was really too short where the planes only sat in about a quarter frame or less so I feel 450mm would be a great improvment but really have no way to judge.

Forget the monopod for inflight stuff, it just gets in the way. Learn how to properly hold your camera and pan with your subject to get good images. For carpet suckers use as much shutter speed as you can and you will get good images. For the windmills use a slower shutter speed (125-250 sec) so that you can get good prop blur. Aim for the wing root with your AF sensor.

If you position yourself correctly then the 200 should bre pretty good as they pass, but for cross leg or good turn stuff you will want the longer focal length.

Sorry to the mods here but visit www.fencecheck.com (http://www.fencecheck.com) to see if anyone from that site is going to be there and get site specific info.

Try to keep the sun to your back if you can and shoot the A/C with the sun on your side if possible, it will improve your keep count.

Get to the fence at gate open time and secure your spot and stay there. Bring someone with you to help hold your place if you need to. Take a hat, jacket and lots of sunscreen. Regardless of the weather wear long pants, airfields make great reflectors and you can fry the gibbles if you are not careful:o

Take care, if you need more help hollar,

Les

[rhys]

I shot an airshow once. I used a 600mm mirror lens for the entire show and got a ton of fantastic shots. That was in my 35mm days. Go for the equivalent of 600mm and you won't be far wrong for close-ups of planes flying etc.

Trust me - you don't want pinhead sized aeroplanes trailing smoke. You want a close-up of the plane with smoke behind it!

You also want to use a constant shutter and aperture. Don't allow the camera to think. You'll lose a lot of photos that way. As for focus - set it on infinity and leave well alone - switch that wretched AF off.

[tnicol]

I'm no expert, but here's a gallery from Oshkosh a couple years ago:
http://tnicol.smugmug.com/gallery/704575#30728705
I used a 20D with a 70-300 4.5-5.6 DO IS with a polarizer. It worked great from the seating area along the flightline. I agree about the monopod. You can carry it around, but I doubt you'll want it - especially for the in-flight stuff.

[LBaldwin]

I shot an airshow once. I used a 600mm mirror lens for the entire show and got a ton of fantastic shots. That was in my 35mm days. Go for the equivalent of 600mm and you won't be far wrong for close-ups of planes flying etc.

Trust me - you don't want pinhead sized aeroplanes trailing smoke. You want a close-up of the plane with smoke behind it!

You also want to use a constant shutter and aperture. Don't allow the camera to think. You'll lose a lot of photos that way. As for focus - set it on infinity and leave well alone - switch that wretched AF off.

OK Rhys, with the AF off how in the hades do you expect the camera to focus past Infinity correctly? All canon long stuff focuses past infinity so that you can still get sharp shots in hot weather and also in (some) high humidity situations where refraction is a factor in focus. I have nearly a 1000 airshows under my belt and would never shut off the AF, that is what it is for!!

I have BA shots of highspeed passes where the plane was near the Speed of sound, just setting infinity and blasting away won't work. You have to learn HOW your gear works correctly.

Les

[gooble]

LBaldwin,

That is an awesome pic.

BTW, what is BA?

So I guess you're saying it's best if you use AI Servo and just hold down the focus button at all times. That's what I plan on doing. That leads me to another question I had, does that really eat through batteries? I have Rebel XT w/grip and so I will have 2 stock batteries in grip and will bring 6 cell AA tray and a bunch of AA's for backup.

Also will have approx 8GB of memory or capacity for about 1000 RAW images. How many pictures do people typically take at an air show? On each pass of an a/c I can imagine taking 5-10 frames. Is this realistic?

[gooble]

I just figured it out. BA is Blue Angels right? A little slow there.

[JWright]

I regularly shoot the annual show here at MCAS Miramar and usually handhold my 100-400 IS L. A monopod is just going to be a hindrance. I think you are going to have plenty of reach with or without the TC. Last year I was right at the fence, and there were times when even the short end of the 100-400 was too close.

Gooble, I've sent you a private message...

[birdstrike]

OK Rhys, with the AF off how in the hades do you expect the camera to focus past Infinity correctly? All canon long stuff focuses past infinity so that you can still get sharp shots in hot weather and also in (some) high humidity situations where refraction is a factor in focus. I have nearly a 1000 airshows under my belt and would never shut off the AF, that is what it is for!!

What it focusing past infinity? If you focus at the hyperfocal distance for your lens, everything from that point to infinity will be in focus. You can safely put your lens in MF for an airshow and shoot from there.

http://www.batnet.com/bogart/Fleet_Week_Starred/

The last thing you want is to have your camera go hunting for focus as aircraft aproach show center.

[etaV8R]

...I have BA shots of highspeed passes where the plane was near the Speed of sound...
Great photo,
there is a misunderstanding many people have that the water vapor showing up means the a/c is close to or exceeding the speed of sound. This is not the case unfortunately. It is a great effect however to capture in a photograph. ;)

[JWright]

Great photo,
there is a misunderstanding many people have that the water vapor showing up means the a/c is close to or exceeding the speed of sound. This is not the case unfortunately. It is a great effect however to capture in a photograph. ;)

Agreed... Most of these airshows take place over populated areas and the FAA takes a dim view of sonic booms over cities. Years ago, an F-14 pilot exceeded Mach 1 during a demo at Miramar. He was called on the carpet after numerous reports of broken windows and other damage from residents of the areas surrounding the airstation.

[superdiver]

LOL...I was using "BA" as Bad A%$" and trying to make that work with the above sentance....just didnt make any sense to me....LOL

[LBaldwin]

What it focusing past infinity? If you focus at the hyperfocal distance for your lens, everything from that point to infinity will be in focus. You can safely put your lens in MF for an airshow and shoot from there.

http://www.batnet.com/bogart/Fleet_Week_Starred/

The last thing you want is to have your camera go hunting for focus as aircraft aproach show center.


If you pick up a 70-200, 300 f4 or 2.8 or any other CANON long lens you will find that many focus past infinity. This is because atmospheric conditions effect the actual focus of long lenses. I am not sure how to explain it except that during high humdity and or high temp situations the focus at infinity will be in front of or behind your subject. That is another reason why Canon long lenses are white. Heat defraction effects the placement of infinity on the lens. So Canon lenses allow for that by focusing past infinity.

MF for airshows is of course possible, but AF is geneally faster, more accurate and consistant for most applications at airshows. The real buggaboo is the smoke from the generators on the A/C. That can really foul up any AF system. In that case I just bump the focus manually to adjust on the fly. I routinley switch from MF to AF during a show. I sometimes like to pick where the focus falls and AF does not do it ALL the time. But 90% is pretty darn good.

Lens hunting is not really a large issue for me because I have invested in the fastest glass I can get my hands on, same with the bodies. I did this because I was tired of halfa$$ issues with low end bodies (10d) and slow glass.

Thanks,

Les

ps good job on the high speed pass!! I have the same series going back about 20 years now except when weather fouled something up!!

[LBaldwin]

Great photo,
there is a misunderstanding many people have that the water vapor showing up means the a/c is close to or exceeding the speed of sound. This is not the case unfortunately. It is a great effect however to capture in a photograph. ;)

No misunderstanding at all. the current speed of that A/C is approx 700 mph. SoS is at sea level (humidity and temp varible) approx 761 that day.

As an a/c increases speed the various surfaces cause a vacuum that sucks the vapor into a cloud, and as the a/c increases speed that vapor gets further and further from the point where the break takes place first, the nose of the a/c.

As speed increases the point where the breaks take place moves further and further towards the rear of the a/c. Temp and humidity and altitude effect the Sos and so do the individual aspects of the a/v surfaces. A wing may break the speed of sound or stall depending on the characteristiscs of the situation. Propellers do this all the time. The ends break the speed of sound but the rest of the 'wing' do not

You will not see the cloud bubble behind the cockpit around the rear engine cowls or between the vertical stabs unless the a/c is going fast enough.

Les

[LBaldwin]

Agreed... Most of these airshows take place over populated areas and the FAA takes a dim view of sonic booms over cities. Years ago, an F-14 pilot exceeded Mach 1 during a demo at Miramar. He was called on the carpet after numerous reports of broken windows and other damage from residents of the areas surrounding the airstation.

BA number 5 did it here in 2000 and also (I think) in 1997. The a/c does not have to pass all the way through the barrier to create that boom though. if just the nose pass through you will get a local boom. In 2000 BA #5 did and shattered several boat windows on a Coast Guard ship as well as a few police boats.

Les

[LBaldwin]

LBaldwin,

That is an awesome pic.

BTW, what is BA?

So I guess you're saying it's best if you use AI Servo and just hold down the focus button at all times. That's what I plan on doing. That leads me to another question I had, does that really eat through batteries? I have Rebel XT w/grip and so I will have 2 stock batteries in grip and will bring 6 cell AA tray and a bunch of AA's for backup.

Also will have approx 8GB of memory or capacity for about 1000 RAW images. How many pictures do people typically take at an air show? On each pass of an a/c I can imagine taking 5-10 frames. Is this realistic?

Boy, I am telling you now you involved in this here A/C stuff and there is no turnin back!!:lol:

You sound like you have plenty to get you started. Glass is always the issues you never have long, short, wide or light enough hehe.

Practice panning your a/c that is what will help you bring home the most keepers. Go to that A/C forum I told you about and start asking questions we love newbies there and all of us understand the airshow addiction. I am going to Florida next week from San Jose just to attend a aviation photography symposium. Darn if it ain't spring break too.

Les

[deletedpenguin]

Agreed... Most of these airshows take place over populated areas and the FAA takes a dim view of sonic booms over cities. Years ago, an F-14 pilot exceeded Mach 1 during a demo at Miramar. He was called on the carpet after numerous reports of broken windows and other damage from residents of the areas surrounding the airstation.

I think I remember this. I believe I was at that airshow. :)

[gooble]

Thanks for all the good responses.

I will be renting the lenses and TC and now I am wondering whether I should get a 2x TC instead of or in addition to the 1.4x TC and then I can use the 2x to give me a max 640mm focal length but if I don't need it I can use the 1.4x. I'd rather not use the 2x as it reduces focus response and reduces max aperture 2 stops. However would I ever even need to shoot below f/5.6?

[Lucky Forward]

Hi gooble, I attended the annual airshow at Andrews AFB near D.C. last year with my 20D, 100-400L, and 4 GB in CF cards. Shooting in burst mode, I racked up hundreds of pictures very quickly, but during lulls in the action I made a point of reviewing shots on my LCD screen and I deleted shots where the plane was out-of-frame or there were other obvious problems. This way I felt like I had plenty of card space for the Blue Angels at the end of the show. I shot about 900 pics all told, and came home with 500 on the cards.

Keep in mind that a plane approaching you with the pilot visible is much more interesting visually than a plane that has already passed and is heading away. Also, when you start to point your camera anywhere in the general direction toward the sun, the planes go into silhouette very easily, so within the constraints you have at the airfield try to keep the sun behind you as much as possible. Sorry if this point sounds obvious, but I was really surprised how many of my shots were silhoutted when I got them home.

[Treat me like a tourist]

i have only ever heard a sonic boom once, that was at the tattoo in uk 1997 i think- it scared the hell out of everyone on the ground, the year before 2 russian migs collided mid air, everyone thought another mid air collision had happened.
That said shame you dont see / hear them more often.

I hope to shoot my first airshow in digital this year, hopefully my 70-200 will serve me well else i might just have to buy the 400mm5.6

[LBaldwin]

i have only ever heard a sonic boom once, that was at the tattoo in uk 1997 i think- it scared the hell out of everyone on the ground, the year before 2 russian migs collided mid air, everyone thought another mid air collision had happened.
That said shame you dont see / hear them more often.

I hope to shoot my first airshow in digital this year, hopefully my 70-200 will serve me well else i might just have to buy the 400mm5.6

Those sonic booms take a toll on the A/C too. The F-14 A & B models had serious cracks develop due to highspeed stresses. The D was a little sturdier. The F-18 and F-16 have developed stretch marks in the sheet metal from Bosnia when going M1 or better. Not to mention the toll it takes on the engines to push a loaded A/C even close to M1. Most won't go that fast with a full combat load.

Have fun at those shows, with your new glass it will make a world of difference.

Les

[LBaldwin]

Hey All,
check out this video!!

Les
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgBnO4idzyg&eurl=

[EOS_JD]

Here's a few mostly with 300f4L IS + 1.4 or 70-200 f2.8L IS

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/gallery/data/890/f16_7.jpg

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/gallery/data/890/f16_6.jpg

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/gallery/data/890/Arrows_4.jpg

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/gallery/data/890/Arrows_5.jpg

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/gallery/data/890/f16.jpg

[Eagle]

Keep in mind that a plane approaching you with the pilot visible is much more interesting visually than a plane that has already passed and is heading away.

Not always. A fighter going away with afterburners on makes one hell of a shot if caught correctly.
Had a F/A-18F break the barrier here at a local show in '05. There were broken windows and all. They claimed they didn't do it, but the show organizers paid for the windows and publicly apologized in the newspaper.

[EOS_JD]

Like it :)

[Dekka]

LOL...I was using "BA" as Bad A%$" and trying to make that work with the above sentance....just didnt make any sense to me....LOL
LOL So was I.

There's some awesome pics in this thread.

[LBaldwin]

Eos_JD Great shots really like the first and last!! Good work!!!

Les

[LBaldwin]

If you want to read more about sonic booms go here!!
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/news/FactSheets/FS-016-DFRC.html

Les

[foghorn]

Those sonic booms take a toll on the A/C too. The F-14 A & B models had serious cracks develop due to highspeed stresses. The D was a little sturdier. The F-18 and F-16 have developed stretch marks in the sheet metal from Bosnia when going M1 or better. Not to mention the toll it takes on the engines to push a loaded A/C even close to M1. Most won't go that fast with a full combat load.

Have fun at those shows, with your new glass it will make a world of difference.

Les
Just to jump in the conversation (because a/c talk does that to me)
A/C loaded with ordanance or external tanks are stressed more when flying over water at low altitudes vs. crusing at a higher altitude. Why this is, I don't know.

[LBaldwin]

Just to jump in the conversation (because a/c talk does that to me)
A/C loaded with ordanance or external tanks are stressed more when flying over water at low altitudes vs. crusing at a higher altitude. Why this is, I don't know.

Friction with air molecules, nasty buggers those. Fluid dynamics is a really cool science and most often the study of A/C is in the mix.

Les

[jpthomas27]

I've shot several air shows and here's what would say.
1) 200mm plus the T-con will more than likely be fine. I shoot it with my 100-400L and usually don't extend all the way to 400.

2) 8 Gigs of mem may or may not be enough. I would take as much as humanly possible! I like to have more so I don't worry about running out before I get to the good stuff at the end of the show.

3) Batteries: Is your lens the "IS" version. If you have the 70-200 IS then take more batteries. The batteries are very cheap on ebay and will last much longer than AA's your going to have as your back up. Same theory applies as memory as far as I'm conserned. take more than you'll ever need.

Bottome line is your not hiking so taking too much gear won't hurt you. Borrow CF cards and batteries from friends if you can't afford to buy them right now. You'll be suprised how fast you'll fill up memory at an airshow and how often you'll hold the shutter until the buffer fills up.

[gooble]

jpthomas27,

Thanks for the tips. With 8GB I estimate I can get around 950 shots in RAW. I suspect that will be enough but I may get more storage to be safe. It's pretty funny thinking about how much storage that is. My first airshow I had a prosumer Fuji with only a 340MB Microdrive. I could only have about 145 images and after every a burst of shots as a a/c flew by I would quickly review and delete obvious bad shots.

I feel better that the 70-200 will be adequate, but what TC were you refering to? The 1.4 or 2. With the 2x I'll have 2x200mm x 1.6 multiplier so 640mm. You said you shoot with max 400mm but is that on full frame or not? It is really a moot point though as I am renting these lenses for the airshow and previously I decided I wanted to rent the 100-400 but it was not available so I'm stuck with the 70-200, and it is not IS by the way.

[Eagle]

Learn how to use your gear correctly and you won't need 8g because there will be no need to machine gun.

[LBaldwin]

Learn how to use your gear correctly and you won't need 8g because there will be no need to machine gun.

In some ways I agree. When I shot fillm I could easily shoot up to a brick of film during the weekend. You will shoot lots at first but as you get more experience you will get more picky.

But for now shoot away and have fun till you get home and wade through 5000 cessna images:)

Les

[EOS_JD]

Eos_JD Great shots really like the first and last!! Good work!!!

Les

Thank Les.... :)

[etaV8R]

... wade through 5000 cessna images:)Les
Whats wrong with Cessnas?
I had a great flight tonight around downtown Los Angeles. Clear, smooth, just amazing.

[LBaldwin]

Nothin if you like flying in the family truckster. But once you have been in a Stearman, Waco, B-17, B-25, B-24, Rv-6, Ciatbria, Marchetti, Lanceair to name just a few. hard to get my heart pounding for a Cessna.

Although one of the best Airshow pilots that ever lived used a 150 Aerobat extensivly for her show. That was the late Ameila Reid. When she passed on a few years back she had well over 60.000 hours in everything from a 747 on down. She even had Shuttle (sim) flight hours. I've heard. She was the primary aerobatic instructor for Sean D. Tucker too. She used an unmodified 150 for her show. It had no inverted oil/fuel system so it cut out lots during her act. It was called butterfly and very similier to Bob Hoovers show. She flew that A/C with the engine dead through loops, barrell rolls and vertical stalls with the engine off and often less than 25 ft from the ground and seldom straight and level. It was something that the BA pilots I was with at the time stop and watch with abject amazement.

Take care, and many safe and fun flights,

Les

[etaV8R]

Oh the Cessna jazzes me because I am flying it. I love aviation. Working at an airport allows me to see airplanes every day in many forms and fashion. One reason I finally made the step from my S45 to the 5D:D
I was born into an aviation family. One doesn't arrive with the initials "ETA" by not having a pilot father and a flight nurse mother.
Dad has had many toys I have flown in. The best was his D-17 Staggerwing. Hard to beat that one. Good times.

[LBaldwin]

Staggerwing,,, You Troll!!:p One of my faves. I shot a Mil one this week at the Navy Flight museum too.

Great A/C. I wish I had one of my own of any kind...

Les

[etaV8R]

Here's a question for this group and thread. I am comparing lenses and trying to work out a feasible and costly set up. I do not only shoot aviation shots but it is one of my favorite subjects.
Does anyone here have an opinion of the bigma for use in aviation photography? I'm still narrowing my selection of lenses to chose from, Canon and Sigma or a mix of the two.
Thanks.

[EOS_JD]

Bigma will not be too bad although you'll need pretty bright light to be able to use it. Even at f4 shutter speeds can be slow here in Scotland due to the poor light.

In somewhere like Florida or California I could see it being of much more use :)

[steved110]

I think with care your 70-200 with a tcon will be just enough reach - I found mine with out a tcon was a little too short.

But the lens I really want for airshows at the moment is the 100-400. I'd also consider the Bigma, but really want IS for a lens that goes out to 400mm

[Mumby]

Hello!

Shooting aircraft is the reason I started spending money on cameras! Most of the advice in this thread is good, my tuppence worth would be to say that the part about just setting the focus to infinity will not work, ever. Servo mode is the way to go. Also, as someone else mentioned, shooting in manual mode helps. If you are shooting aircraft against a bright sky then try overexposing by 1/3 of a stop, or maybe even two thirds if it is a very dark coloured aircraft. f/8 seems to be a popular stop to shoot at aperture wise.

To see the best of aviation photography look here

http://www.airliners.net/

That site also has a good forum where you can ask for advice. Another good forum is here

http://www.ukar.co.uk/cgi-bin/ukarboard/ikonboard.cgi

They will all have plenty of good advice too.

Regards

Paul

[LBaldwin]

Hello!

Shooting aircraft is the reason I started spending money on cameras! Most of the advice in this thread is good, my tuppence worth would be to say that the part about just setting the focus to infinity will not work, ever. Servo mode is the way to go. Also, as someone else mentioned, shooting in manual mode helps. If you are shooting aircraft against a bright sky then try overexposing by 1/3 of a stop, or maybe even two thirds if it is a very dark coloured aircraft. f/8 seems to be a popular stop to shoot at aperture wise.

To see the best of aviation photography look here

http://www.airliners.net/

That site also has a good forum where you can ask for advice. Another good forum is here

http://www.ukar.co.uk/cgi-bin/ukarboard/ikonboard.cgi

They will all have plenty of good advice too.

Regards

Paul

Hi Paul,

I invite you to come over to fencecheck.com. I am not sure that I agree that airliners.net has the very best in aviation images. As a whole I find many of the image there as rather ordinary, and without a great deal of creativity or style. Truth be told I have not checked in there a few years but in the past have not found the images all that excellent.

As far as gear is concerned the 100-400 L is quite a reasonable lens for most G/A work. I prefer the 500 f/4 but of course it is pricey. Spend as much money on the lenses as you can, the bodies will change of course but Canon long stuff is without equal in the aftermarket when you compare all aspects of the lenses.

As far as sigma is concerned I think you will find that they do have a market with the price concious but use or rent a long L and see they world in an whole new way. Spending the money will always hurt and that will never change but once it is done you won;t look back unless you under use the lens.

Les

[etaV8R]

I'm looking at several Sigma lenses and a few Canon ones. My 35-135 doesnt seem to be on the ball as it was back in the day. It is several years old.

Basically I would like to purchase two zooms which can cover a wide range of situations. Ideally both would be fast and the long range zoom should have IS/OS. Extenders will also play a role since they can provide greater reach. What is the drawback of using extenders? Can they be used with most lenses or only specific ones? Can the Canon extenders be used with Canon lenses other than L series?

Are Sigma lenses that bad compared to Canon? Sigma seems to rate here on the forums. Soon as my list is narrowed down I will post a thread in the general lens section. And since this is still in the aviation thread, aren't most aviation shots done in daylight? There have been some awesome sunsets at LGB lately but thats when the wide angle 2.8 comes in handy. At 2.8 wouldn't the dof be reduced? Geez I sound like a noob.

[JeffreyVB]

I just ordered up my 100-400L rental from RentGlass.com last night. Hope to have it in my hands Thursday, just in time for this weekend's show at Langley AFB. :D