Portable studio using speedlights

[TXLEBER]

I've never done any portrait studio shoots and I'd like to experiment a little. I'd like to put together a kit that would be portable. I've got a 580EX (access to a second 580), a 430EX, and a cheap but sturdy ebay background stand with a 10x15 gray muslin. I'm thinking I'd like to get some umbrellas with stands or even a softbox and a reflector or two.

I figure my setup would be 580 mounted, second 580 at 45 degrees, and the 430 as background lighting. Should I get a softbox or umbrellas? Also, would a reflector be ok to use a hairlight or should that be done using one of the flashes? I don't want to go the alien bees route quite yet. I can afford $100-$150 in new equipment for my little experiment here.

dumb question disclaimer: I've read the stickies, but seem to get lost in all the info. I've also done a lot of searches and read a lot of the threads, but again, I get lost in all of the info.

[Salleke]

Sorry to see that nobody has givin you an answer untill now.
I'm in the same position. Go for strobes or for speedlights?

The best thing you can do is to ask one or two questions in one post.
And to search for yourself on the internet.

Maybee you can give this site a look. I found many good information there.

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00BjHh&tag=

Probabily I will go for strobes myself but I have a little more saved to spend
then you have right now.


Good luck.

[FlexiPack]

I'm in similar situation the OP. I can't really offer too much advice as im a beginner and my equipment is on order.

As I was a newbie to portrait work i didn't want to splash out too much money for now so in addition to my 430EX i bought the following:

Vivitar 285 Flashgun
Lightstand
Umbrella attachement
1x 43" white umbrella
1x 43" silver umbrella
5 in 1 22" reflector set
and the appropriate flash shoe adaptors and PC cord to trigger the flash.

Have you read Strobist? It's very informative for lighting using flashguns and people on a budget.. strobist (http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/03/lighting-101.html)

Also I highly recommend taking a look at a 'one light' thread over at Fred Miranda, it's really inspiring. I know you have more than one light but it shows you what can be acheived with minimal equipment and also quite a few posted diagrams of their setups which is helpful.. http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/424115

[TXLEBER]

Thanks guys. Checking out the info now.

[CanonCam]

My apologies for not responding earlier, I hesitated because I am by no means accomplished at this yet so don't want to steer someone in the wrong direction. Judging by your post, you are as new to lighting as me, if not, I again apologize. If correct, here's my take on the whole thing...

For me, starting out very simple is helping me to learn faster than buying a whole bunch of equipment right away.(which sounds like the same thing you are after) I'd suggest not worrying about hair lighting for now unless that is your goal. You have what I would say is sufficient light equipment as far as speedlites so I'd start with one and move it around till you find what you like, then add the others in as you find out what direction you want to take your pictures. Umbrellas are cheaper than softboxes so I'd start with them first.

As for getting lost in all the information, I understand completely. Just take your time and try simple setups first. It won't take you long to see what you need (want) to add or do. Not sure if this is what you are after, but this is the way I have been learning.

[FlashZebra]

If budget is an issue:

If you already have a pile of recent Canon Speedlights, building and ad hoc portable studio based on them seems reasonable.

If you do not already have a pile of recent Canon Speedlights, building and ad hoc portable studio based on them seems like an exercise in burning a very significant pile of cash.

Good quality studio lights like Alien Bee units are less expensive, have modeling lights, are significantly more powerful, and easily accept a wide assortment of inexpensive and widely available light modifiers.

A battery based flash unit like the Sunpak 383 has about the same power as a 580EX and cost only $80.00 (not $350.00 like a 580EX). There are good units to base a " Portable studio using speedlights" on.

Enjoy! Lon

[Curtis N]

My only advice would be to avoid spending a lot of money on stuff that won't be useable if/when you upgrade to "real" studio lighting.

Make portability part of your objective. A few economy lightstands and 42" or smaller umbrellas won't cost a lot, and will fit into a tripod bag for easy transport.

And as Lon suggests, old-fashioned flash units are not only much more economical than EX Speedlites, but more easily adapted for off-camera use.

[TXLEBER]

Thanks for all the advice. I've been doing a lot more reading. Some of the threads look real familiar, but only after reading them 2 or 3 times does it all sink in. :-)

So I figure I'll just use my current gear and add on some umbrellas and stands. Couple of questions:

1. Would a softbox be better for portraits than an umbrella? If so, is there a place that sells a speedring to fit the 430/580? (I've seen the DIY projects, but I don't have that much talent or time)
1a. Is a speedlight powerful enough for use with a softbox?

2. Has anyone bought these umbrellas/stands off of ebay. If so, which vendor have you found to sell the best quality at the most reasonable price.


Thanks again for all the advice.

[Lotto]

Umbrella is easier to setup, but softbox gives better controls. The link below is a small softbox combo, has evrything needed to mount the EXs.

6 ft from the subject @ iso 100, 430/580 will at least provide f8, you can raise the iso from there.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=3750&A=details&Q=&sku=419377&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

[digitaljoe]

Umbrellas are so cheap and a good way to start and you can use them with monolights later on. Photogenic's Eclipse is a good brand.

Better than a cheap umbrella - Photek make a softliter umbrella (3 sizes) with a diffusion cloth (provides a soft light for flash or monolights) and comes with gold and silver inserts. Worth considering.

If you have the flashes fine but don't spend on equipping a studio if you have not bought as yet. It will work out in the end more expensive than a set of AB's which provide far better quality light with modelling lights. I made this mistake!! Monolights should be your first choice.

[sfaust]

With the exception of using different stands, I use the hardware to mount the softbox and 580ex for a portable kit of mine, and they work well.

But some food for thought.

Buying a 580ex is about $380. An Alien Bee 800 is more powerful, and about $100 cheaper. All the accessories are made to work together, so you won't need to hodgepodge anything together.

I built a portable kit based on 4 580ex strobes, 2 med softboxes, 2 umbrellas, speed rings, custom made snoots and grids, barn doors, etc, and spent far more than a similar setup with WL800ws monolights. But it all fits in a medium sized tripod bag! I paid for portability, and compromised a bit on ease of use to do that. So I would heistate to add anymore speed lights to your setup, and go wtih something like the Alien Bees, WL, or similar.

With that said, you already have a 508, access to a second one, and a 430. You can easily make a nice little portable portrait setup with that. Depending on the variety of work you want to do, either umbrellas or softboxes will work. I would take the time to read up on the differences in the light quality between an umbrella and a softbox, and see which you like best. They are both pleasing, just different. You as the artist get to make that decision. There is some good info here; http://ksp.webphotoschool.com/index.html. I think PhotoFlex has some comparisons on their website as well.

As mentioned by CanonCam, use one light off camera and play with it. Soften it with diffusion, move it closer, further, create shadow patterns by putting a plant in front of it between the subject, use a cardboard tube to act as a snoot for 40's hollywood glamour images, etc. You will learn so much more by doing that than starting with a whole bunch of equipment.

Here are a couple one light images. Very easy to do, quick to setup, and they turn out pretty reasonable results.

One strobe with a grid.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/68/221001627_a72230af92_m.jpg

One strobe with a softbox and close to the subject.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/91/273422882_c04a0248e2_m.jpg

One strobe with a softbox fairly close and feathered.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/147/361594376_2e21d5302a_m.jpg

You really don't need a lot of lighting equipment to get decent results. Take one strobe and play with softlight, hard light, feathered lighting, diffused, snoots, etc. Once you get bored with that, add another light and try mixing the lighting types such as hard and diffused, snoots and grids, etc. Also add in contrast ratios between the two lights. You'll get some very creative and excellent images by doing this, much more so than by starting with the standard softbox, fill, and hair light. Once you work up to three lights, you'll automatically know how to setup the traditional portraiture ligthing just by looking at a well lit portrait IMO.

Just a another way to approach learning lighting, which also happens to work very well if your lighting budget is tight.

[sboerup]

The only reason I wouldnt go with the Speedlight way is the complete lack of modifiers. I was able to get a great setup with Metz handle mount flashes that worked really well. Only thing is that I was very limited to the control of the light.

Went back to the AB setup and built my own battery. Much cheaper than 2 580s but much more powerful and versatile.

This setup allows an AB400, medium octabox, battery. Was easy enough for me to run up and down stairs and holding all my gear. Didn't have a problem, but the quality of light is 1st for me.

Samples from yesterday.
http://www.sboerup.com/proofs/clients/hoefferle/_MG_2430.jpg

http://www.sboerup.com/proofs/clients/hoefferle/2/_MG_2625.jpg

[TXLEBER]

Thanks for everyone's input. Out of all the stuff that I've read this has got to be THE MOST INFORMATIVE write up I've seen: http://ksp.webphotoschool.com/index.html

Thanks sfaust for posting that. I think for now, I'll stick with my speedlights and get 2 lightstands for them, a background light and some reflectors. Now that I've made my INFORMED decision, It's time to get up and do it. Thanks again!!

[convergent]

Whatever way you decide to go, I would highly recommend you invest in a light meter in this somewhere so that you can learn what you are doing... otherwise it will be very frustrating and you won't learn anything. I would get fewer lights, get a meter, and get some reflectors to work with. You'll learn so much more.

[TXLEBER]

Whatever way you decide to go, I would highly recommend you invest in a light meter in this somewhere so that you can learn what you are doing... otherwise it will be very frustrating and you won't learn anything. I would get fewer lights, get a meter, and get some reflectors to work with. You'll learn so much more.


Interesting....out of all the threads I've read, not one has said that a light meter was a must have. Could you elaborate on why?

Thanks!

[Curtis N]

I take occasional portraits with multiple flash units (manual mode) and umbrellas. I don't have a light meter, but I've never had a problem getting the exposure right. I just test, chimp, and adjust accordingly.

I meter would help, especially for setting main/fill ratios. I'll get one someday, but I don't think the lack of a meter should stop anyone.

Anyone who wants to get creative with multiple flash units should check out the Strobist (http://www.strobist.blogspot.com) blog. David Hobby has developed quite a following, teaching people to light, and he rarely mentions meters.

[sfaust]

With film, a light meter was a necessity unless you had a polaroid back for previewing your lighting. With the cost of polaroid film, and the 70 second wait for each preview to develop, a light meter would save you time and money.

With digital, a light meter isn't essential for learning since you can preview your lighting changes as you go. Its nice to have if you have a complex light setup, but certainly not needed to learn lighting at all. As long as you can preview the image to see what adjustments are needed, you're all set.

I would put a light meter on the list 'after' getting a two or three light setup, some light modifers, etc.

On speedlight modifiers, they are very easy to make. Grids, snoots, diffusion, etc, so it shouldnt' be much of a limitation for a DIYer. For my lightweight location kit, its all speedlights, and I've got excellent light control with DIY grids, snoots, diffusion panels, etc, and the softbox mounting kits. The www.Strobist.com website, and his group on Flickr have many examples of home made modifiers that work excellent. I generally don't recommend speedlights because it costs you more than a similar monolight setup. But if you already have a few, you can do wonders with it.

[AdamJT]

I use my 580ex's all the time for both studio and on location lighting. I have the Impact stands and umbrellas that B&H sells as an accessory to the 580ex. I really like this setup and have had no issues with lighting this way. You can either use them in manual and create your own ratios, or use them in full e-ttl and let the computer brains do the work for you. The impact umbrellas work nicely to soften the light. I usually leave one flasa on the camera for control purposes and turn it off, although occasionally I leave it on and just aim it at the ceiling or behind me to add a little extra fill. As others have said the advantge to the system is the extreme portability. Very easy to take outdoors or to events and have it set-up and ready to go in only a few minutes. The e-ttl features and ratioing capabilitites can really make its use a no-brainer for quick work. i would post some pics, but I am typing from my work computer and don't have any examples handy.

Long and short is don't be afraid to move ahead with a speedlite set-up. Is it a replacement for studio strobes? No..but it can be a great set-up for anything from portraits to small groups and give high quality results.

[TXLEBER]

AdamJT, do you trigger your flashes via cable or infrared?

[René Damkot]

Since he's talking about "leave one flash on the camera for control purposes and turn it off" and "use them in full e-ttl and let the computer brains do the work for you", I'd say he uses Canons wireless ...

[AdamJT]

Yes I do use the Canon wireless. Works well indoors and at short distances outdoors.

[convergent]

Interesting....out of all the threads I've read, not one has said that a light meter was a must have. Could you elaborate on why?

Thanks!

How else would you know how to control the different strobes? They need to each be metered separately if you want to be able to apply any creative approaches. There is no other way to measure them but with a light meter. I think many people starting out on a budget try to go with a "trial and error" approach, but this is very difficult to be consistent and repeatable with. It can also be very frustrating if you are trying to learn.

I'd also suggest you get a good book on studio lighting first to understand what I'm talking about. Maybe get the book first and that might help you decide what you want to get. The best one I've found is Amherst Press's "Master Lighting Guide for Portrait Photographers" by Christopher Grey. It does a great job of explaining studio lighting in basic terms and then giving you real examples where they build up the lighting in a situation and show you the effects along the way.

Of course this all assumes you aren't going to set the Speedlites on ETTL and just let them figure things out.

[sfaust]

How else would you know how to control the different strobes?

Very easily, look at the LCD! Turn on your main light and take an educated guess for the setting. Take an exposure and look at the LCD. Too dark, turn up the strobe or open up the aperture. The reverse if its too bright. Once you dial that in, turn on the fill light and repeat the process. Then do the hair light, etc. Once you do it a few times and become comfortable with it, you'll setup your lighting and be able to pretty much guess at a decent exposure, and just tweak the lights accordingly, even on complex and creative setups.

Most entry level people I teach lighting to usually can't afford a flash meter at first. So I teach them how to setup lighting without using one, and they all do fine. Only after they can setup the lighting without a meter, do I introduce one and show them how to use it. If someone is a formula based photographer (ie, main light at f8 softbox, hair light at f11 snoot, fill at f5.6 softbox), I can see how a light meter would be very important, if not required. But I find formula based shooting far from creative to begin with.

By the way, I also recommend Christopher Gray's book. Another good one is Michael Grecco's book, which takes portrait lighting a step further and goes into many more creative and darmatic techniques for portraiture.

[convergent]

Well I guess we'll agree to disagree. Learning lighting is all about ratios and such. There is no way that you can discern a ratio from an LCD, and in fact I don't even recommend using the LCD for exposure without the complexity of strobes. If you are using strobes, there are multiple different exposures to be concerned with, and the sooner the mind goes to multiple exposures and ratios, the sooner they'll have any idea what they are doing. Its certainly possible to get a nice picture without a meter, but I think starting out learning the basics is the best approach. Given the choice of two strobes and no meter, or one strobe, a meter and a reflector... I'd recommend the latter.


Very easily, look at the LCD! Turn on your main light and take an educated guess for the setting. Take an exposure and look at the LCD. Too dark, turn up the strobe or open up the aperture. The reverse if its too bright. Once you dial that in, turn on the fill light and repeat the process. Then do the hair light, etc. Once you do it a few times and become comfortable with it, you'll setup your lighting and be able to pretty much guess at a decent exposure, and just tweak the lights accordingly, even on complex and creative setups.

Most entry level people I teach lighting to usually can't afford a flash meter at first. So I teach them how to setup lighting without using one, and they all do fine. Only after they can setup the lighting without a meter, do I introduce one and show them how to use it. If someone is a formula based photographer (ie, main light at f8 softbox, hair light at f11 snoot, fill at f5.6 softbox), I can see how a light meter would be very important, if not required. But I find formula based shooting far from creative to begin with.

By the way, I also recommend Christopher Gray's book. Another good one is Michael Grecco's book, which takes portrait lighting a step further and goes into many more creative and darmatic techniques for portraiture.

[sfaust]

I do agree that we'll probably not see eye to eye on this, nor should we. Both approaches work well, both are widely taught, and one doesn't preclude the other.

You are also right that you can't determine a light ratio on an LCD. Nor can you determine the light ratio from an image or print. But one doesn't need to either, and thats my whole point.

Lighting ratios are a measurement system used to convey lighting intensities, and thus lighting setups so that they can be understood verbally among people. Much like Kelvin values are used to describe the color of light. As photographers we all know what warm afternoon sunlight looks like. But only through Kelvin values can we precisely and accurately describe the same exact light to each other. Yet, even without knowing the actual Kelvin temperatures, photographer day in and day out recreate that lighting with gels and strobes. They do it visually, and not numerically.

So if a photographer doesn't need to verbalize that light quality to another person, they don't need to understand Kelvin values at all. All they need is to reference their visual interpretation of the light, and with a few minutes of experimentation with the appropriate gels, presto, late afternoon sun.

The ratio of a shadow to the highlight isn't important, as long as the photographer knows how to adjust the strobe to achieve that effect that they are holding in their minds visually. If they want deep shadows, its well within any photographers capabilities to use the slider on strobe to remove lighting from the side they wish to create shadows on, and check it visually. They won't be able to describe it as a specific ratio, but they can easily match it their pre-visualization just as one can determine if a glass is half full visually without a unit of measure, and recreate it visually as well.

Some people learn better visually, and others learn better with formulas and setups. Eventually they will learn both, but the order is best determined by the individual photographer.

But to say one can't learn to light, and do it creatively without learning ratios is shortchanging a lot of very good photographers out there.

[Curtis N]

This was done without a light meter. I have no idea what the main/fill ratio was, but I bet I could recreate it without a lot of fuss.