Concert with flash (nikon content)

[revaaron]

I was asked to post some of my pictures so here they are. these are all shots with nikon's (and a nikon mount). just some random ones that I sort of like.

who killed the red baron at Dover Brick House on Feb 6, 2007
nikon D100 + 12-24mm bulb MF Manually trigger flash
http://www.returntothepit.com/rttppics/324593.jpg

hammer bros at American Legion (Nashua, NH) on Feb 17, 2007
nikon D2X + 17-55mm
http://www.returntothepit.com/rttppics/326534.jpg

converge at Toad's Place (New Haven, CT) on Feb 16, 2007
nikon D2X + 17-55mm
http://www.returntothepit.com/rttppics/326216.jpg

mastodon at Toad's Place (New Haven, CT) on Feb 16, 2007
Kodak SLR/n + 12-24mm
http://www.returntothepit.com/rttppics/326071.jpg

mastodon at Toad's Place (New Haven, CT) on Feb 16, 2007
nikon D2X + 17-55mm
http://www.returntothepit.com/rttppics/325974.jpg

bane at Elk's Lodge (Cambridge, Ma) on Mar 2, 2007
nikon D2X + 17-55mm
http://www.returntothepit.com/rttppics/329580.jpg

killswitch engage at Avalon (Boston, Ma) on Feb 24, 2007
nikon D2X + 17-55mm
http://www.returntothepit.com/rttppics/328516.jpg

architect at American Legion (Nashua, NH) on Jan 27, 2007
nikon D2X + 17-55mm
http://www.returntothepit.com/rttppics/321958.jpg

[revaaron]

Random acts um.. at the middle east dec 8 2006
nikon D2X + 17-55mm
http://www.returntothepit.com/media.php?id=313259&date=dec082006&pic=random_acts_of_violence024.jpg

[revaaron]

porphyria at Sahara Club (Portland, ME) on Jan 26, 2007
nikon d2x + 17-55
http://www.returntothepit.com/rttppics/321792.jpg

porphyria at Sahara Club (Portland, ME) on Jan 26, 2007
kodak SLR/n + 12-24mm
http://www.returntothepit.com/rttppics/321857.jpg

[iareRay]

some pretty sweet shots!

i would love to see some non-flash ones..

[revaaron]

this was from another thread and the point was only ones with flash

[DwightMcCann]

Yes, another thread nicely isolated from this one, I hope! There are a couple that I really like such as the first [could you put numbers on your images in the future?] I have tried a few random shutter drag captures but they are generally pretty bad ... how many do you take to get ones you really like? And the good photographers here really, really don't care what equipment you use ... although for those who want significant help it is easier if they are shooting equipment we know.

[René Damkot]

Nice... Flash at arms length?

[gcobb]

Was that with a second shutter sync too?

[Corrado_Images]

The Hammer Bros singer always makes the best facial expressions in all of his photos

[CanonXTuser]

you know what you are doing with a flash as indicated with vibrant and colorful the photos are and how, at least on the main subjects, you have almost no blown highlights.

great great job. what flash settings, techniques do you use.

[narlus]

1 and 4 in the first post, and the 1st in the 2nd post, are excellent work...really spot on. how'd you get the 1st one? fisheye? love it.

i played around w/ flash last night, and would like some pointers if you'd care to spill 'em. the first time i ever used flash i think i lucked out (see my Pearls and Brass folder in my site), but using those same settings at last night's old school hardcore show (Gang Green and The Freeze) last night didn't work too well (ISO ~400, ~f/5, shutter ~0.5 sec). way too many trails and blown highlights; maybe the guys were just moving more? dunno, hard to say for me.

[Metalphotographer]

i played around w/ flash last night, and would like some pointers if you'd care to spill 'em.

When I'm flashing I use ISO 400 or 800, second curtain flash, apertures between 4 and 6 and shutter speeds of 1/10-1/20 sec. I also use a StoFen diffuser on my 580EX with the head pointing straight up and FEC set to -3.0.

[narlus]

well i think i had a few of those checked...ISO 400, ~f/5, stofen and head pointing up (or at least 60 deg)...i didn't have the FEC dialed all the way down, and i think i changed from 2nd curtain to 1st, because it's easier to release the shutter @ the point of action rather than trying to predict that the person's gonna do. i think my shutter speed was the big culprit though, as i had longer exposures. cutting them to what you suggest is probably a very good idea.

check out my Freeze thread for results, and comment at will.

[blackshadow]

I do like #s 1, 3 and 4 in the first post - the composition/framing/perspective in 1 and 4 are excellent. What lens(es)/settings were you using for the shots?

[revaaron]

sorry, I haven't been back.

the lenses and cameras are listed above the objects. no fish-eyes. with the 17-55, I shoot 95% of the time at f/4 1/20. f/4 seems to be a sweet spot for that lens. the 12-24, who's "sweet spot" is f/9-f/11, I try to shoot around f/8. when you shoot closer to f/4.5-f/5.6, it gets worse. I always use rear curtain. to the person that says something about "the moment of action", well.. you have to guess at what they are going to do. that's the "skill"

it's too bad the kodak SLR/n is so darn noisey. it's such an odd camera.

kodak SLR/n + 12-24mm
http://www.returntothepit.com/rttppics/310523.jpg
http://www.returntothepit.com/rttppics/310514.jpg
http://www.returntothepit.com/rttppics/310512.jpg

[zacker]

whats Toads stance on cameras.... do you need permission or do you just show up there and shoot? im from the area..

[revaaron]

if you want to use the phot-pits I know that you need a photo-pass.

the security at toad's are wicked nice guys. I love shooting there.

[PhotoJourno]

You see, this is what Nikon does to photographs. The Concert was actually Coldplay, opened by Josh Groban.

:lol:

[narlus]

to the person that says something about "the moment of action", well.. you have to guess at what they are going to do. that's the "skill"

technically, though, is there any difference in how the light trails are depicted in the image, 1st vs 2nd curtain? i guess i should try it out and find out for myself, but i don't use flash all that often. :D

[zacker]

if you want to use the phot-pits I know that you need a photo-pass.

the security at toad's are wicked nice guys. I love shooting there.

COOL.. THANKS. I can go to a few shows and get in on the guest list but didnt know if I could shoot. might be able to get some back stage stuff too... if I ever get off my lazy butt and actually go..lol been going to Toads since about 87... saw tons of shows, (allmost every Ramones show from 87 to about 90 or 91 i think) Toads is definetly a NH landmark...too bad theres no real Parking!

[revaaron]

1300 kids screaming for guns up!
http://www.returntothepit.com/rttppics/324019.jpg

[PhotoJourno]

I really like this one. Congrats.

[revaaron]

sometimes, it's just catching the right moment.
http://www.returntothepit.com/rttppics/329621.jpg
or the wrong momment

[revaaron]

http://www.returntothepit.com/rttppics/329659.jpg
http://www.returntothepit.com/rttppics/329830.jpg

[Valerie S]

Revaaron,

Care to share any more of your flash technique? Besides dragging the second curtain, are you using any diffusers? Are you aiming the flash at the subject or bouncing?


Thanks,
Valerie

[awad]

beautiful!

[bmoguy]

You've got some great stuff! Nice work.

[revaaron]

AWAD posts here too? this world is getting smaller and smaller...

I sometimes use a diffuse dome. actually, I would say most of the time I do. it's all about trying to get the light to come from a direction that isn't on top of your camera, but still illuminates where you want. Some times I have the flash in my hand and just trigger it manually. I'm working on making just a manual trigger for such events out of a broken cold shoe with a wire. I just need the right kind of trigger switch.

not very pretty, but this one was in the boston phoenix a month ago:
http://www.returntothepit.com/rttppics/322783.jpg
nikon d2x+17-55 I think it was 1/20 f/4.

Nikon's "big deal" about flashing systems is also the CLS that they made. I have all the components for it, but never get it to work right for me. I got another flash and put it across the room, but this is the best I was able to get out of it at the middle east
http://www.returntothepit.com/rttppics/310093.jpg
not worth it at all. I think with macro photography and stuff it can work well.. but in a live setting, it kills everything. I would be hard pressed to find a picture that I liked where I used it.

[Compact Diss]

I like the Phoenix one, nice tats

[bacchanal]

technically, though, is there any difference in how the light trails are depicted in the image, 1st vs 2nd curtain? i guess i should try it out and find out for myself, but i don't use flash all that often. :D

Narlus, I think second curtain is potentially helpful if you're shooting moving objects, but the camera is still. The light trail appears behind the subject (like motion blur, instead of in front of the subject (which can look like reverse motion blur). Think of flashing a passing car or running person. You want the sharp (flashed) part of the image to appear at the last point that the subject was at. It honestly doesn't matter so much for concert stuff though imo.

[revaaron]

bacchanal is correct.

nachtmystium (PVD warehouse)
http://www.returntothepit.com/rttppics/314405.jpg
http://www.returntothepit.com/rttppics/314413.jpg

[narlus]

Narlus, I think second curtain is potentially helpful if you're shooting moving objects, but the camera is still. The light trail appears behind the subject (like motion blur, instead of in front of the subject (which can look like reverse motion blur). Think of flashing a passing car or running person. You want the sharp (flashed) part of the image to appear at the last point that the subject was at. It honestly doesn't matter so much for concert stuff though imo.

a lot of times though, don't you want the camera body to move? that's how you get those groovy light trails from the amp LEDs etc.

maybe i'll bring my flash gun to this saturday's Isis show. rev, i expect you will be shooting that, no?

[bacchanal]

a lot of times though, don't you want the camera body to move? that's how you get those groovy light trails from the amp LEDs etc.

maybe i'll bring my flash gun to this saturday's Isis show. rev, i expect you will be shooting that, no?

In that case (really in the case of concert photography), you can go either way...because in general both your subjuct and the camera are going to be moving, so may end up with light trails all over the place (amp lights, highlights from the guitar tuners, etc.). There is nothing wrong with using 1st sync (esp for shots like the one at the beginning of this post with the sitting guitar player), but if you have a really high energy band with lots of movement, it would probably be ideal to stick with second sync and try to anticipate the moment. Easier said than done of course...and like Lavar Burton always says...but don't take my word for it! ;)

[revaaron]

I will have my flash at the ISIS show. downstairs at the middle east is probably one of the worst places in the world to shoot with flash tricks.

[revaaron]

this shot of ISIS:
http://www.returntothepit.com/rttppics/259236.jpg
was in a magazine last year. It's not a very good image until you b/w and contrast adjust it. then the second layer of images comes out. I believe this was a over 1 second exposure and I was it with the flashes of others in the audience. I'm guessing I was using my D2X

[bacchanal]

Man, isis is cool. I thought they were pretty big though...that place looks like an unused corner of a HS cafeteria.

[revaaron]

it's just a room. there are like 100+ people behind me. I've heard some people saying things about aaron and his distain for photogs. I was very stand off-ish and only went near him for a few shots and for most of those, I was using the flashes of people with crappy digital cameras in the crowd and not my flash.
I'm guessing at Jesu, flash will be at a minimal. I will of course have to borrow my gf's 5D.

[roman_t]

i had real good time! some shots are so energetically biased. thanks alot for sharing. wow!

[revaaron]

with my old (and quite broken) D2H from last night while my D2X is in the shop
http://www.returntothepit.com/rttppics/332431.jpg

[revaaron]

this was in a near completely black basement with my D100+ 17-35mm sigma
http://www.returntothepit.com/rttppics/80225.jpg
After is was cleaned up in pp, that was my best looking photo in a magazine until it was knocked out of that place this year. this was taken march 12 2004 at the HOSS in brookline mass.

[DwightMcCann]

And here I thought I was the only one in Performing Arts who also shot bloody noses (from boxing events.)

[René Damkot]

Nice energy. Good fill flash.
I hope Canons ETTL ever gets close to Nikons iTTL (if that's what it's called?)

[revaaron]

yeah, canon's a generation behind nikon in flashing systems.
nikon's a generation behind canon in sensor development.
I think it would be easier to re-do a CL system then a sensor system. we'll see when the 1dmarkII and d3(x/h) are compared.

Tonight, I had an AIM convo and I stick by my claime that the natural skin tones from nikons are better than the canons out of the box. (going with the D2x ASIC)

from tonight, D2h:
http://www.returntothepit.com/rttppics/333040.jpg

[revaaron]

oh and I shot that 'bloody' band again tonight:
these pictures SUCK cause I'm using my failing D2H (red casting). I can't wait to get my D2X back in the mail...
http://www.returntothepit.com/rttppics/332883.jpg
http://www.returntothepit.com/rttppics/332884.jpg

[René Damkot]

yeah, canon's a generation behind nikon in flashing systems.

Probabely one of the reasons why most Canon shooters don't use flash ;)

[corterlifecrisis]

is return to the pit your website? im pretty sure you've shot my roomate's band (i know you shoot a lot of bands), i got the whole "oh! you shoot photos? look at this guy's website" thing last semester with your website. really good stuff man

[revaaron]

Probabely one of the reasons why most Canon shooters don't use flash ;)

the other reason being that they are one generation ahead on sensors so noise isn't as much of an issue. I'm hoping that the 18mp 1.1 crop sensor that nikon (or sony) is rumored developing is true. that would be awesome. my hartbei 35mm tilt shift lens has drop off on the edges with the shift @ FF so the 1.1 crop would rule. I'll buy it if they make the ISO 1600 look at least as good as the 5D, but they also need to leave in the dx crop and the HSC mode.

the Full Frame kodak slr/n rules. I love working with my 12mm on a FF camera. kodak was sooooo ahead of the game if they only stuck with it, their sensors would be the best out there. oh well. to bad they stopped with a wicked noisey sensor and just went for cheap OEM P&S.
http://www.returntothepit.com/rttppics/333104.jpg
http://www.returntothepit.com/rttppics/333185.jpg
http://www.returntothepit.com/rttppics/333208.jpg

[René Damkot]

Sensors may be good, but sometimes you just need a tiny fill flash. With any Nikon or a Canon film camera using TTLL (my Eos 1n for example), that's no problem. On my 1D2 I mostly need a few test images to get it right in that perticular situation, or need FEL.
Not the best thing in a hectic environment....

[revaaron]

is return to the pit your website? im pretty sure you've shot my roomate's band (i know you shoot a lot of bands), i got the whole "oh! you shoot photos? look at this guy's website" thing last semester with your website. really good stuff man


what band?

[corterlifecrisis]

the carrier

[revaaron]

I believe I have a picture in their upcoming 7" or 10".

[revaaron]

from saturday...
http://www.returntothepit.com/rttppics/prospect_hill028_333516.jpg

[narlus]

nice shot rev; who's the band?

[DwightMcCann]

Oh, that is nice!

On the Nikon flash topic: I shot Nikon for over 30 years. When I got an N70 and good Nikon flash it was amazing! You could shoot with straight ahead flash with subject in front of a mirrored wall and get perfect exposure. The "fill flash" was really just that. I read at one point that Nikon used a "Library on a Chip" created by collecting data from special cameras from 100 top photographers ... when you were shooting it would take the meter readings from all the sensors, distance to object in focus, pre-flash readings, exposure mode and lens setting (and who knows what else) and do a database lookup into the 28,000 combinations in the library to determine just what to do. When I went to Canon it was the one thing that I really missed.

[Denovo]

What's a Nikon?

[René Damkot]

What's a Nikon?

A camera brand with better flash metering then Canon offers. :rolleyes:

[revaaron]

DwightMcCann: the D70 had a 30,000 entry database.
the D70s had a 300,000 entry database

[DwightMcCann]

DwightMcCann: the D70 had a 30,000 entry database.
the D70s had a 300,000 entry database
And a flash system that made sense for a hell of a lot less than my 1D Mark II[N] bodies.

Another nice thing about the Nikon flash IIRC is that the automatic settings, like sports, portrait, landscape, etc., were also factored into the flash database lookup and my experience was that they were very accurate. But I would never go back ... all the rest of the Nikon technology lags at least a year or two behind Canon.

[johnstoy]

Wow...Nikon goes way back with me, too...

Had a Nikkormat FT3, with a 50mm f/1.2 lens and extension tubes and some doublers, back in the early/mid 70's.

That was for nature photography, (daily slide show presentations) with the PA State Park Service...

I'm still uncertain why I went with Canon after all... but I like it...

[revaaron]

can I have your 50mm f/1.2?
is that a nochto?

[johnstoy]

The Nikon stuff belongs to the Park Service. In my case, it's partially, in conjunction with the local school intermediate units, that also supply educational audio visual aids... (All of this required a specific college education, competitive state wide testing and experience.)

Getting my own Nikon 50 1.2, was my main desire and actually responsible, for my current DSLR set up...A good friend of mine collects Nikon lenses for more than 30 years now... He, however chooses no to sell any of his acquisitions...

When my possible purchase of a 50mm 1.2 simply fell through... and Canon was introducing a new version of the 85mm f1.2 prime lens, I went with the Canon set up...

I ran this past one of our moderator's, whom I met at my local venue... and was impressed with the results that Canon produced... we discussed the issue and the need of the f1.2 lenses for low light situations... and given the lens options, I chose to run with Canon...;)

[Valerie S]

I've heard some people saying things about aaron and his distain for photogs. I was very stand off-ish and only went near him for a few shots and for most of those, I was using the flashes of people with crappy digital cameras in the crowd and not my flash.

Can anyone elaborate on this? Isis is playing here on Friday and I think I can bring my kit into the club they're playing, which has a really great light rig. However, I don't want to end up with a 35L suppository.

[narlus]

well, i can say that Isis' tour manager kicked rev and myself from the sidestage prior to their set; since there's no front pit, and the club was sold out, it meant that getting a good vantage spot after Jeus's set was pretty tough. luckily my buddy was still up close (though not at *the* front), so i wormed my way up and got a few decent shots from between heads. wide shots were obviously a no-go.

[revaaron]

heh, I was wicked confused cause that was me talking about someone named aaron. but it's one of those "his name is my name too" moments.

well ISIS typically has the room pitch black and then if you get close to the lead dude, he'll get mad at you for using flash. whether or not he's done this a lot, I don't know. I know he's done it to a couple people. I don't blame him, I hate being on the other side of a flash.

I would say shoot around him like you are shooting around a sleeping grisley bear. test the waters and get some good shots before you do anything that might stur the bear. Also, don't poke the bear.

[Valerie S]

No cameras allowed at the club without a pass anyway. The bigger clubs and theaters in SF are all like this. Thanks anyway.

[carbonXevo8]

more of killswitch engage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Howrad rules!

revaaron where are you from? Great photos btw

[constrict]

Spending some time on the canon forums aye aaron? ;)

[revaaron]

well, I do have a 5D sitting right here...

[constrict]

well, I do have a 5D sitting right here...

I need a girlfriend who has a 5D.

[revaaron]

I'm from new hampshire.

the singer of a life once lost is always awesome to shoot
http://www.returntothepit.com/rttppics/a_life_once_lost062_336299.jpg

[revaaron]

http://www.returntothepit.com/rttppics/a_life_once_lost076_336313.jpg

[revaaron]

some recent ones. all with the nikon D2X
http://www.returntothepit.com/rttppics/ghoul082_352286.jpg
http://www.returntothepit.com/rttppics/regurgitate040_351471.jpg
http://www.returntothepit.com/rttppics/the_taste_of_silver020_349070.jpg

[InspiredGraphix]

I hadn't seen these before.

Some awesome pics in there mate, well done.

Rob

[René Damkot]

I like #2.
#1 is lacking ambient light, #3 has a too distracting BG.
You could edit your post and add a space between images. Makes it a bit easier to seperate...

[bob393]

Nice work!

[EveryMilesAMemory]

Awesome Shots, but I've never shot a concert that they let me use a flash??

Pat
www.everymilesamemory.com

[rkb249]

The Hammer Bros singer always makes the best facial expressions in all of his photos

I have some absurd looking pictures of Jim Death on my photoblog. Dude opens his mouth up soooo wide when he yells, seriously looks like an ape.

[narlus]

Awesome Shots, but I've never shot a concert that they let me use a flash??

Pat

in the clubs around boston, the only places where a 'no flash' rule is thrown up are the ones w/ a capacity of ~1000 or bigger. so, there are plenty of opportunities for flash, at least near me. that said, i don't use it 99% of the time.

[Compact Diss]

I finally have a flash picture to add!
I went to see The Horrors back in March. The lead vocalist Faris Badwan turned all the stage lights away from the stage. I either used a flash or I walked out with nothing. I didn't edit the pics until today because I felt they were all crap; except this one didn't turn out too bad so I thought I would throw it up here.

Enjoy!

[DwightMcCann]

So, how did you do the flash?

[Compact Diss]

lol, good question. I turned the setting to automatic...I went the point and shoot route using the pop up flash...