Macro Flashes

[Jason Cole]

Hey Guys,

Im going to buy a flash to go with the MPE-65 Macro lens, But whats better and why is it better?

CANON MT-24EX Macro Twin Lite Flash

or

CANON MR-14EX Macro Ring Lite

To me a ring light would give better illumination, but then again the twin light can be bent too.. so im not 100% sure...

Any help would be much appreciatted. If one flash is better than the other can you explain why and the pitfalls of what does or doesn't work and why?

Thanks in advance!
Cheers
Jason

[rocklyons]

I went for the MT-24EX as it allows more control of the lighting. Either will light up your subject but with the 24 you can move both of the lights individually, position each at different angles and you have all of the other control you would expect from a high dollar flash.

[Dalantech]

You can follow the link to the macro technique article in my signature -
I've used both of them. Here is my .02:

The MR-14 has a better diffuser and I think the quality of the light it produces is extremely good. It's also easy to set up and take down.

The light that the MT-24 produces is harsh, so it really needs to be diffused. The flash heads are further apart than the MR-14, and you can detach then from the lens mount and move them even further apart (handy for shooting very reflective objects like water drops).

With BOTH flashes you need to use the built in ratio control to make one flash head brighter than the other or the lighting will look very flat.

For the EF-S 60mm to 100mm lens I recommend the MR-14. For longer focal lengths the MT-24 will give you better separation if you don't use the lens mount that comes with it. Really Right Stuff makes a flash bracket that will work for the MT-24, but it's Really Stinkin' Expensive...

[kster]

A related question, can the MR-14 & MT-24 act as a master to other Canon flashes (like the 580EX)?

[dpastern]

I personally would avoid the usage of ring flashes Jason. If need be, get a dual Wimberly flash arm setup and two 580ex units. Better lighting imho...

Dave

[zman]

I personally would avoid the usage of ring flashes Jason.

Dave

I agree twin heads are much more flexible; the only con IMO is the higher cost.

[Alex Paul]

24EX definately.... You can vary lighting with individual heads and can use one or both and indivually vary out put of each for even more lighting variations..... I often remove and hand hold one head while keeping the other on the bracket for backlighting or accenting one particular area....The ring light though ok always looks the same... It is great for scientific shooting but lacks creative flexibility.... Take care....Alex

Hey Guys,

Im going to buy a flash to go with the MPE-65 Macro lens, But whats better and why is it better?

CANON MT-24EX Macro Twin Lite Flash

or

CANON MR-14EX Macro Ring Lite

To me a ring light would give better illumination, but then again the twin light can be bent too.. so im not 100% sure...

Any help would be much appreciatted. If one flash is better than the other can you explain why and the pitfalls of what does or doesn't work and why?

Thanks in advance!
Cheers
Jason

[Dalantech]

A related question, can the MR-14 & MT-24 act as a master to other Canon flashes (like the 580EX)?

Yes, both can control other flash units.

[Dalantech]

I personally would avoid the usage of ring flashes Jason. If need be, get a dual Wimberly flash arm setup and two 580ex units. Better lighting imho...

Dave

If you really needed the separation then you could do the same thing with the MT-24 EX and it would be cheaper and a lot lighter.

Also how do you do ratio control with two 580s? I know it's possible if you are using the ST-E2 remote controller, but the MT-24 would be a bargain at that point...

[Dalantech]

....The ring light though ok always looks the same... It is great for scientific shooting but lacks creative flexibility.... Take care....Alex

I couldn't disagree with you more! IF you use ratio control then you can get shadows with the MR-14. If fact if you don't use ratio control with the MT-24 then the light from it will be completely flat...

[Alex Paul]

Hey Dalantach.... I'll compare work with you any time....Disagree all you want. I suggested the MT-24 as I have used all the different set ups and it wins hands down.... Now you shun it with me and agree with Dave..... Instead of talkng any more about it I will just let my shots show the results using the 24. These are just a quick grab.... I have thousands and will be happy to compare what ever you like...From reptiles to midges.. Most owners of the MR-14 go to the 24 when they realize how their shots though lit well leave a ring reflection all to often, and the lighting is flat in comparison to the dual head configuration........ The 24 heads, can be individually dialed in for power, can be used one at a time or both together and the processor allows more control than any shooter I know would ever need... They can be diffused easily with pieces cut from a plastic milk jug and secured with tape or rubber bands..... Now there is a huge expense... The heads can be removed from the bracket and held by hand, placed and weighted down, or hung to offer side lighting, backlighting, side and overhead lighting and any two light combination you can think of when shooting indoors with tripod.... If two isn't enough control a slave flash as well.. Do these variations with the 14.... My shots will show just how well it works.... Anyway I am done waisting my time with your argument....I haven't been posting here in a while but I see it is time again.....If these shots aren't good enough for you I'll spend a little time getting to the good ones...

MT-24EX set up with 35.00 Manfrotto twin arm Macro flash bracket. All shots hand held..
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n119/AlexPaul_2006/Macro/400shots0191.jpg

Stink bug.... All shots with the same gear except use of Rev 50 varies based on desired magnification Lighting with MT-24, 180mm lens, and reverse stacked 50mm
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n119/AlexPaul_2006/Macro/10%2006%20Macros/rev50nightstalking0602.jpg

No Seeum or Midge. Same set up
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n119/AlexPaul_2006/Macro/10%2006%20Macros/reverse50dustsizebugs10060292.jpg

Plant Hopper
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n119/AlexPaul_2006/Macro/planthopperandassorted021.jpg

Little flies gettin some
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n119/AlexPaul_2006/Macro/10%2006%20Macros/reversemount504ALP2006NassauBahamas.jpg

Fly in flight
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n119/AlexPaul_2006/Macro/10%2006%20Macros/Damsels3etc-1.jpg
No it wasn't luck.... I can nail them better than 60% of my attempts. I shared how with these folks back months ago..

Mantid
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n119/AlexPaul_2006/Macro/StickBug0161.jpg
There you go.... The proof is in the shots not in the talking.....



I couldn't disagree with you more! IF you use ratio control then you can get shadows with the MR-14. If fact if you don't use ratio control with the MT-24 then the light from it will be completely flat...

[Dalantech]

Alex,
First: I left high school a long time ago, so I almost didn't respond to your post...

Second: I never questioned your skill as a photographer, I simply disagreed with your statement about the MR-14 only being good for scientific work. I own both the MT-24 and the MR-14. The MR-14 is currently in my camera bag and goes with me everywhere -and if it produced flat light I wouldn't shoot with it. The MT-24 is in my closet -I have plans for it, but I don't carry it with me full time.

From a technical perspective your photos are good, but the lighting looks flat in most of them and it's due to your flash bracket. I don't know why Canon designed both flashes to be horizontal (like you have them on that bracket), but the last time I checked the sun shines on the top of objects for most of the day. If you used ratio control, and positioned one of those flash heads at the top of the lens and the other at the bottom, your images would look a lot better...

FWIW: I always shot with the MT-24's flash heads at the top and bottom of the lens, and I currently shoot with the MT-14 turned so that the "A" flash head is at the top of the lens. Try it some time. It's how I can get photos like this one -images that have a lot of detail even in the shadows:

http://dalantech.smugmug.com/photos/89581865-L.jpg

There's nothing flat about the lighting in that image...

Last, but not least, most people think that the MT-24 and the MR-14 produce flat light because they don't read the manual and they never use ratio control. One guy told me that he shoots with both the MT-24's flash heads at the top of the lens because the light was flat if he separated them...

[GAELICSTORM7]

Hi guys, still getting used to my Sigma EM140DG flash (don't know if I should call it a ring flash as it's not got a ring as such but 2 heads ?), messing today firing both heads and left and right on there and at various settings (8 are available for each one) and also rotating the heads so there above and beow the lens as opposed to it's left and right, I'm only learning but to me there seems to be a huge amount of adjustment that can be made to move shadows or balance light, I'm pretty impressed with it so far.

here's an image for your amusement centre one is both tubes (1-1), right hand image is right tube only (0-1), left hand image is left hand tube only (1-0)

Cheers

Alan

[Dalantech]

Hi guys, still getting used to my Sigma EM140DG flash (don't know if I should call it a ring flash as it's not got a ring as such but 2 heads ?), messing today firing both heads and left and right on there and at various settings (8 are available for each one) and also rotating the heads so there above and beow the lens as opposed to it's left and right, I'm only learning but to me there seems to be a huge amount of adjustment that can be made to move shadows or balance light, I'm pretty impressed with it so far.

Cheers

Alan

Hey Alan,
The only limit seems to be the length of the cable between the flash head and the controller ;) Looks like you're off to a great start with that flash! Try the same experiment, only vary the ratio between the heads and see how the shadows change.

I was playing around in the house tonight with high speed sync mode. I never had much luck with it in the past, but someone on a another forum said that he used it full time so I'm trying it again. Always something new to learn...

[mtonsbeek]

Hey! Dalantech and Alex! Great spat! Good argument from both sides.
Be open to each other's points of view. We can all learn from each other.
There in NO right and wrong. Great shots from both of you!

PS: Alex, could you post a frontal shot of your set-up please? I have the same Manfrotto bracket but have not used it yet.

[Dalantech]

Hey! Dalantech and Alex! Great spat! Good argument from both sides.
Be open to each other's points of view. We can all learn from each other.
There in NO right and wrong. Great shots from both of you!

PS: Alex, could you post a frontal shot of your set-up please? I have the same Manfrotto bracket but have not used it yet.

Sorry if I seemed a little abrasive in my reply. I don't respond well to people launching personal attacks just because I don't agree with what they have to say...

And you're right -there is no set right or wrong. If I believed that there was a set way to shoot macro I wouldn't have half the images in my gallery ;)

[Alex Paul]

Dalantech.... ;) Not to shabby, but that ringlite glare is harsh... This is case in point.... The other thing is with no exif data it can't be determined what aperture you were using or for that matter what lens....Both as you know have a profound effect on DOF and dimension. Shooting a reversed 50 for real macro, not on bugs the size of a barn door, the DOF is the thickness of a piece of paper and so you are forced to sacrifice DOF for fine detail on the really small things...It isn't the shortcomings of the flash it is the nature of the beast.... This is why Brian also known as LordV got into focus stacking Here is another small one for you.... 24 flash
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n119/AlexPaul_2006/Macro/newest%20shots/flashindaylighttest51533.jpg
Now to your assumption that shooters are to ignorant to learn to use their gear properly.... I disagree.... I also think that you make a valid point.... No flash with bells and whistles is idiot proof....BTW I agree that this exchange has value.... You see I took your comments as a personal attack as well.... Take care.... Sorry for the barn door comment :D :D

[Alex Paul]

I will need to take the shots and post them for you... The bracket works very well... Often times it takes a heated debate to get points across, respect established and the best information exposed... Unfortunate but true..... I am actually enjoying the value of the exchange and I am starting to like this Dalantech guy :D. I too have been the route of the different flash set ups and my mind is absolutely made up on which is more versatile and does a better job overall.... I can only agree to disagree ;) I also use mine from time to time without diffusers for shooting birds :D It works fantastic... But this is another forum discussion :D. I'll post better detailed shots of the bracket set up after dinner... Take care.....Alex

...Hey! Dalantech and Alex! Great spat! Good argument from both sides.
Be open to each other's points of view. We can all learn from each other.
There in NO right and wrong. Great shots from both of you!

PS: Alex, could you post a frontal shot of your set-up please? I have the same Manfrotto bracket but have not used it yet.

[Dalantech]

Dalantech.... ;) Not to shabby, but that ringlite glare is harsh... This is case in point.... The other thing is with no exif data it can't be determined what aperture you were using or for that matter what lens....Both as you know have a profound effect on DOF and dimension.


Alex,
Exif data here -although it won't show you the 37mm of extension tubes that I had on the 100mm macro: http://dalantech.smugmug.com/gallery/1590111#89581865 -mouse over the image and click on the photo info link. Edit: Forgot to mention that the shot was taken with an MT-24 and Sto-Fen diffusers stuffed with cotton balls. Don't get me started on Sto-Fen's MT-24 diffusers...



Shooting a reversed 50 for real macro,


Real macro is shooting at life size magnification or above -the gear that you use to do it is pretty much irrelevant. Anybody can reverse a lens...


...you are forced to sacrifice DOF for fine detail on the really small things...It isn't the shortcomings of the flash it is the nature of the beast.... This is why Brian also known as LordV got into focus stacking...


Using a flash for fill when shooting with natural light as your primary light source will bring out details that you wouldn't see without it. It's difficult to explain to someone who shoots with the flash as the primary light source -you have to try it for yourself. As for DOF: Getting maximum DOF all the time isn't necessary, and in some cases it can actually ruin an image -especially if there is too much detail in the background.

Your style of shooting, and Brian's, isn't the type of macro that I like to do. I like to show the critter in it's environment, and I want to use DOF to isolate it in the image. Although I respect Brian's work, and have taken a few focus stacked images myself, it isn't something that I want to do because I don't like the results. Brian and I have talked quite a bit about DOF here and on a couple of other forums and we simply have different approaches to using it.

As for flash: The flash that you use isn't important, but the quality of the light that it produces is. There is a "color shift" to your images that is due to the color of the flash light. Have you tried experimenting with different diffusers?


Now to your assumption that shooters are to ignorant to learn to use their gear properly.... I disagree....


I never said that anyone was ignorant -but I will say that the vast majority of the people on the planet don't read the frickin' manual ;)


I also think that you make a valid point.... No flash with bells and whistles is idiot proof....BTW I agree that this exchange has value.... You see I took your comments as a personal attack as well.... Take care.... Sorry for the barn door comment :D :D

LOL! I don't see any particular technique as being inherently wrong -if it works for you then by all means use it! But try not to get bent just because someone doesn't agree with you...

[Alex Paul]

Take care Dalantech... Try a rev 50 sometime and then lets talk about DOF... and dimension ;) Unlike the MPE it can't be shot with a closed down aperture.... The 50 has to be wide open... Light diffraction does become an issue when the main lens is closed down to much but shooting a lens with tubes is a whole lot easier in every respect than a lens producing 4x to 5x magnification..... When you have a DOF so shallow that, less than perfect focus plane alignment, and or any slight change in focusing distance turns the shot to trash, opens up a whole new set of challenges, especially when hand holding the shots... I am shocked at the harsh light you managed out of the 24.... It is a non issue for me with my milk jug diffusers and flash set to manual and output adjusted properly... Most of my small bugs are shot at night near lights outdoors and so there isn't enough ambient light to do anything I have to turn the focus beams on to see for focus....When I am getting poison oak and such crawling through the bushes shooting I of course dial down just for fill... I always shoot strictly manual everything, When shooting the rev 50 other than light meter it renders everything else useless.. When I shoot a conventional macro arrangement with tubes I feel like I am shooting a wide angle lens... Try the rev set up you might enjoy the challenges.. Oh I have a lot of Damsels and Dragons to share with you too as I see you really like them..... I do too, but I honestly get bored shooting them as it is just to easy..... No dig just the way it is.... I enjoy working with compositions with them, and I do get joy capturing them showing habitat ... Take care..... Stofen sucks..... BTW I won't focus stack either.... I do stack images for astro imaging to increase detail and light but with macro I prefer to work with what I have and get the most out of the gear with improved technique instead of feeling like I am cheating. It is not the case, it is just another tool in the creative box, but it just seems so unholy :D :D. The other thing is handholding and figuring on getting 4 or 5 images with different focal points is great in theory but in the bushes with bugs that move it isn't a practical option. Very rarely do I shoot anything in a controlled environment, Also, try 4 perfectly focused and framed shots hand held on a moving bug where the working distance is under an inch, and any movement away from the hairline focusing point trashes the shot ;)....... I agree that Brians work is wonderful and he is a great guy. :D :D.... Take care man.....Alex

[dpastern]

I still think that Brian (LordV) has the best lighting on any of the shots that I've seen. And he uses a single flash unit on a flash bracket. He rarely has hot spots on his shot, the lighting is even, but not flat. I consider flash my weakest point and I'm working on plans to fix it.

Dave

[Alex Paul]

Hi Dave:) I confess from time to time I use a single diffused 420EX cheap and does the job :) If I only had one macro lighting set up and was choosing between the two Canon Macro flash offerings, I would still stick to the MT-24 over the MR-14. I also like them as they put less weight hanging out over the end of the lens, which is already nose heavy, and the 24 for the variety offered in light variations... You know the saying use what works best for ya ;).. As you know most set ups will work well given enough time to modify, and fine tune technique... Shooting a rev 50 is a little more challenging in flash placement as the light needs to squeek in to a space no deeper than 1/2 to 1 inch between subject and lens.. I found with the Manfrotto flash bracket it didn't have the meat to hold the heavy flash in position dependably and so a more expensive alternative was needed. I still play with it once in a while but for the most part stick to the dual head rig...Jody Melanson, who I am assuming you have heard of also uses a single flash with a massive diffuser that looks like a street light lens and gets terrific results from it as well, but by his admission the weight is an issue as he also hand holds his rev 50 shots, and we have discussed him going to the manfrotto and twin head as well to address the nose heavy issue....Jody shoots Mites and you can count the number of hairs on them :).. Brian is certainly aware of him :)
Take care bro....Alex

I still think that Brian (LordV) has the best lighting on any of the shots that I've seen. And he uses a single flash unit on a flash bracket. He rarely has hot spots on his shot, the lighting is even, but not flat. I consider flash my weakest point and I'm working on plans to fix it.

Dave

[dpastern]

Oh I've seen Jody's awesome work before. And I've seen his rig ;) I'm looking at buying a Lumiquest mini softbox with this pay, I think a lot of issues stem from my current sto-fen diffuser. It's not bad, but for macro shots, I don't think it's really suited. I'm also going to try Brian's Coca Cola can diffuser as well one day. I like natural light photography, but it is very limiting and frustrating. Camera shake due to low shutter speeds, and noise make it very difficult to get great shots.

Dave

[Alex Paul]

Manfrotto twin head flash bracket , mounted to upside down lens tripod mount bracket.. I modified mine this way to keep the flash brackets and heads from hitting the ground when placing lens right up against the subject to be shot... It keeps things high and out of the way yet still offers all the same adjustability... Because the arms are upside down the flash heads are reversed, making the left control on the unit, controlling the right head and visa versa... It is easy to get used to... I also took the fiber washers out between arms and base at securing screws for a more ridged and positive hold... With them in place the arms will jar pretty easily..... Anyway here ya go..... The set up works very well.... Certainly better than the stock mount under some circumstances. And definately better when a reversed lens is sitting out front.... Tape is a lousy option for holding the mount in place, though I have seen some mods made to a lens bayonet mount cap that works but requires epoxying the center cut cap to the stock mount rendering it useless other than that specific application... Take care....Alex

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n119/AlexPaul_2006/Macro/cameraflashsupportsystem0081.jpg

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n119/AlexPaul_2006/Macro/cameraflashsupportsystem0111.jpg

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n119/AlexPaul_2006/Macro/cameraflashsupportsystem0151.jpg

[Alex Paul]

I liked the details of Brians diffuser..... I think the stoffens are fine for general photography use but I agree Dave they do come up short for macro... Take care pal....Alex

Oh I've seen Jody's awesome work before. And I've seen his rig ;) I'm looking at buying a Lumiquest mini softbox with this pay, I think a lot of issues stem from my current sto-fen diffuser. It's not bad, but for macro shots, I don't think it's really suited. I'm also going to try Brian's Coca Cola can diffuser as well one day. I like natural light photography, but it is very limiting and frustrating. Camera shake due to low shutter speeds, and noise make it very difficult to get great shots.

Dave

[Alex Paul]

BTW I appologize for being a part of hijacking this thread.... I hope you find enough useful information to help with a decision...Shooting the MPE as in shooting a rev 50 requires a much more specialized flash set up than 1:1 requires and so I think you are on the right track no matter which of the two Canon options you decide on.....Take care...Alex

[Dalantech]

I still think that Brian (LordV) has the best lighting on any of the shots that I've seen. And he uses a single flash unit on a flash bracket. He rarely has hot spots on his shot, the lighting is even, but not flat.
Dave

Agreed. Also check out Tom Hicks over at the Fred Miranda Macro Forum. He uses natural light as his primary light source with a camera mounted 580 EX flash and Lumiquest Mini Soft box. Tom's work convinced me to look for a way to shoot with natural light with a hand held rig (he mounts his gear on a tripod).

[Dalantech]

... I'm looking at buying a Lumiquest mini softbox with this pay, I think a lot of issues stem from my current sto-fen diffuser. It's not bad, but for macro shots, I don't think it's really suited. I'm also going to try Brian's Coca Cola can diffuser as well one day. I like natural light photography, but it is very limiting and frustrating. Camera shake due to low shutter speeds, and noise make it very difficult to get great shots.

Dave

The Sto-Fen was designed to be bounced off of a ceiling -great if you're shooting portraits indoors. But pretty dysfunctional if you're trying to shoot macro. The Sto-Fen diffusers for the MT-24 are made out of the same plastic as their normal flash diffusers -and work about as well :rolleyes: I had to resort to stuffing cotton balls in them and the light still wasn't what I wanted...

The Lumiquest is an excellent diffuser for macro -I used it on a camera mounted 430 EX for this shot:

http://dalantech.smugmug.com/photos/67006665-L.jpg

If you notice Brian doesn't change flashes, he simply looks for ways to get better light from the one he has -and the quality of the color in his shots has improved...

[dpastern]

Agreed. Also check out Tom Hicks over at the Fred Miranda Macro Forum. He uses natural light as his primary light source with a camera mounted 580 EX flash and Lumiquest Mini Soft box. Tom's work convinced me to look for a way to shoot with natural light with a hand held rig (he mounts his gear on a tripod).

I'm familiar with Tom's images as well, love his style.

Dave

[dpastern]

The Sto-Fen was designed to be bounced off of a ceiling -great if you're shooting portraits indoors. But pretty dysfunctional if you're trying to shoot macro. The Sto-Fen diffusers for the MT-24 are made out of the same plastic as their normal flash diffusers -and work about as well :rolleyes: I had to resort to stuffing cotton balls in them and the light still wasn't what I wanted...

The Lumiquest is an excellent diffuser for macro -I used it on a camera mounted 430 EX for this shot:

If you notice Brian doesn't change flashes, he simply looks for ways to get better light from the one he has -and the quality of the color in his shots has improved...

Thanks for the tip Dalantech, very much appreciated. The Sto-fen is going to be replaced. I'm planning on updating to the 1D Mark III and getting a 580ex II, as well as a dual Wimberly flash arm setup. Well, that's long term goals. I do like natural light macro photography, it's a good thing my flash and offshoe adaptor did both break, cos it's taught me to rely on, and use natural light to my advantage.

Dave

[Dalantech]

Looks like we need to start a thread on flash technique ;)

[StealthLude]

I use the MT-24EX and love it. I only have a 100mm Macro right now, but the MP-E is my next lens, and plan on using the same MT-24EX.

[Alex Paul]

Now your talkin buddy :D :D.... Let's keep going at it ;)..... Kidding ..... Take care..

care....Looks like we need to start a thread on flash technique ;)

[Alex Paul]

Now this is the kind of input I like to hear :) Great choice......

I use the MT-24EX and love it. I only have a 100mm Macro right now, but the MP-E is my next lens, and plan on using the same MT-24EX.

[racketman]

A related question, can the MR-14 & MT-24 act as a master to other Canon flashes (like the 580EX)?

yes :D

[Jason Cole]

Ok guys thanks, it look like the MT24 is the way to go, I will grab one next week and let you know how I go... im a bit nervous about posting results up here just yet after seeing some of the amazing samples in this part of the forum though... stay tuned and thankyou to everyone for all your valued input.

[Cactuspic]

Alex, I just took a look at your rig. Counterintuitively, flash light is softer the closer you move it to your subject. To soften the light , you can move the arms of the manfroto closer to your subject taking care to preserve your lighting angles at the higher magnifications. Due to the closeness/softness factor I find that my twinlight flash MT-24EX is softer at 1:1 with my 65mm MPE lens than with my 105mm. The higher magnification I use with the 65mm MPE, the softer the light.

Irwin

[Dalantech]

Alex, I just took a look at your rig. Counterintuitively, flash light is softer the closer you move it to your subject. To soften the light , you can move your the arms of the manfroto closer to your subject taking care to preserve your lighting angles at the higher magnifications. Due to the closeness/softness factor I find that my twinlight flash MT-24EX is softer at 1:1 with my 65mm MPE lens than with my 105mm. The higher magnification I use with the 65mm MPE, the softer the light.

Irwin

I saw the same effect when going from Canon's lens mount for the MT-24 to the Really Right Stuff mount...

[SunTsu]

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n119/AlexPaul_2006/Macro/400shots0191.jpg

.....

Can someone please explain why you would tape a lens to the front of another lens like that?

[racketman]

you can achieve high magnifications by reversing a lens on to the front of another - you can get coupler rings for a few quid but they are hard to find.

[nqjudo]

Interesting thread. I just purchased a new macro rig and deciding on lighting was painful. I tried flash brackets, both Canon macro flashes and the Sigma ring flash as well. I finally decided on the MR-14 for portability and ease of setup/take down.

Before purchasing I read Dalantech's macro article and I found it to be quite helpful. I will agree that the MR-14 can and will produce a flat light unless you tweak it to do otherwise. There is the ratio control but I am also finding that unclasping the ring from the lens and hand holding it can produce interesting results as well. In short, the flash can produce a warm light with interesting shadowing if that's what you want. It's like any other tool. If one takes the time to learn it intimately, some pretty nice results can be produced.

Besides, lighting and exposure are fairly subjective to a point. In this case for instance, I find that Alex's photos have a flatter and less interesting lighting that Dalantech's. This is said with all due respect though. All shots posted are top notch indeed and it all proved to be a very interesting read.

[aiea1]

SunTsu , I found this link very informative for a biginner like myself.

http://www.flickr.com/groups/macroviewers/discuss/72157594536861701/

[SunTsu]

SunTsu , I found this link very informative for a biginner like myself.

http://www.flickr.com/groups/macroviewers/discuss/72157594536861701/

Thanks! I wonder how someone figured this out.

I noticed you also have a 100mm macro and am wondering if you ever use the above approach now that you have a dedicated macro lens.