10D, vs MkII

[Saturn]

Hello:

Looking for some opinions. First let me say that I use a D60, and have rented the 10D. The 10D's files are noticeably cleaner than the D60. We've had 30 by 40 photoprints, and billboard images made from both cameras without a problem (no client complaints!).

I need to personally get either a 10D, or (if I can find the $$), a MkII before the end of July. It will be used exclusively for weddings beginning in August. I am well versed in workflow issues related to digital weddings. My only question is, should I get the 10D, and upgrade to something better next year, or try to pop for a MkII now? I really feel the extra resolution of the MkII is a non-issue for weddings, based on our great results with the 10D & D60. The only 3 benefits I see for the MkII are 1), dual card writing for in-camera backup of files. 2), 1.3 chip instead of the 1.6 in the 10D, and 3) the faster write speeds.

Any opinions??

Thanks!

[timmyquest]

I just want to start off by saying that i mean no offense at all to you but this thread is intersting to me.

The 10D and the MKII are nothing alike and all i can say is that if you can afford the MKII then by all means get it, but there are other things to tihnk of.

What type of lenses do you have? If you dont have any the 10D and some better lenses might be a better route.

Also, experience, i'm guessing you've got plenty because of what you want to use these for but if not again the 10D may be a better choice.

[DaveG]

Hello:

Looking for some opinions. First let me say that I use a D60, and have rented the 10D. The 10D's files are noticeably cleaner than the D60. We've had 30 by 40 photoprints, and billboard images made from both cameras without a problem (no client complaints!).

I need to personally get either a 10D, or (if I can find the $$), a MkII before the end of July. It will be used exclusively for weddings beginning in August. I am well versed in workflow issues related to digital weddings. My only question is, should I get the 10D, and upgrade to something better next year, or try to pop for a MkII now? I really feel the extra resolution of the MkII is a non-issue for weddings, based on our great results with the 10D & D60. The only 3 benefits I see for the MkII are 1), dual card writing for in-camera backup of files. 2), 1.3 chip instead of the 1.6 in the 10D, and 3) the faster write speeds.

Any opinions??

Thanks!

If you can afford it get the Mark II. Not only will you get the improvements you mentioned above but you'll also get a much better (I hope) flash system with the E-TTL 2.

But there's no way that I'd buy either the 10D or Mark II in July and plan on shooting weddings with it in August. Although the 10D is similar to the D60 (while the Mark II is not) I wouldn't feel that I was familiar enough with the camera to use it at a wedding.

I teach a seminar to a local community college on wedding photography, and one of the skills that I stress that a wedding photographer must have is complete control and mastery of their camera; so that they control it and not the other way around. I've had my 10D for over a year now and I'm STILL not confident enough to use it at a wedding, although that time is coming.

Hey this can be a manhood thing and you can just say, "I'm OK with it, don't worry." But I'd just as soon mess up at things where there's a lot less downside than messing up a wedding.

[petiot]

i totally agree with TimmyQuest. But i think your problem is that you cannot resist the idea of treating yourself with a Mkii.

personaly i think that a Mk II for weddings only is a bit "over the top". but obviously if your business consists of wedding ad other types of photography, a MkII might be a solution to consider.

So,a 10D (or even two) plus a good lens to complete your colection, two huge CF cards, one BigEd, a couple of additional filters, an additional flash unit, a new bag, etc etc!! or .... a MkII

:wink:

[karusel]

But there's no way that I'd buy either the 10D or Mark II in July and plan on shooting weddings with it in August.

Well, I'm not a pro, nor do I have extreme experience shooting weddings, but I bet my right hand, that DaveG is right. I know alot about computers, I've been extensively shooting photos for 3 years, of that 1 year digital, I thought people talking about 'rather steep learning curves' of 10D were some grandpas that previously owned some pre-war russian camera, but now that I got it myself... boy oh boy am I reading the manual! :shock: Most of the photos that I shoot right now are worse than those produced with $300 PS cameras. So, I too advise not to expect mastering the camera in one month. And mastering a camera is what I would think is pretty basic for stressful situations like weddings, when, I assume, you wouldn't have time to think about ...gee was it this button or this one?.. or thinking about DOF and what the aperture should be to achieve what you just had an idea about.

[Saturn]

Hello All:

I should've mentioned a bit more in my first posting. I've shot commercially (all Canon) for about 20+ years. Shoot about 20 wedding/year for the last 10 years. Have more than enough Eos lenses to get any job done, and rent whatever else I need. On some D60 jobs (commercial, not weddings), I'll shoot 15GB of data in a 5-day period, some heavy setup stuff, and some very fast action stuff, more than any wedding. I'll have no issues with any new camera learning curve on any job. (Not trying to sound snooty!) I just know what I can get out of a 10D/D60 file, and question the viability of spending lots of extra $$, when I could get a 10D and maybe a new G4 laptop. (Mac-savvy, don't use PC's. Again, not trying to sound snooty!) Guess I'm kinda answering my own questions about the 10D vs MkII??

[CoolToolGuy]

I think the 8 FPS can be a bonus for a wedding photographer. I'm not saying its a must, but when you tell everyone to 'smile' not all the smiles are at their best at the point in time of one shot. In some cases, one phase of someone's smile can look look like a scowl or other non-flattering pose. Having the flexibility of 8 FPS could allow the photog to choose the best. Plus, there can be the issue of guests and their flashes spoiling an exposure - another potential bonus for 8 FPS.

Hope this helps
Have Fun
Rick 8)

[Saturn]

Hello:

I won't need 8fps for a wedding, but do need 1fps, for sometimes 10 consecutive frames. Anything faster and my flash will have trouble keeping up. Even at this slower shooting rate, I think the buffer of the MkII would be beneficial over the 10D?

Anyone know if the MkII shutter is a lot louder than the 10D?

I'm also (prematurely?) dismissing the Koday/Canon hybrid. Don't like the idea of a Sigma body wrapped around my Canon lenses. Guess I worry about possible reliability issues.

Thanks.

[msvadi]

MkII sounds like a much better camera than 10D. Since you are a professional I think it makes a lot of sense to get more advanced equipment. Can you just shoot a few more weddings to cover the cost of MKII?

[D60DIETER]

Get it this way:

fps 3,-------------------- 8,5
ISO 100-1600,----------- 50-3200
crop 1,6,------------------ 1,3
Monitor 120000,------------- 235000
Res 6,3MP,--------------- 8,2MP
Format RAW,----------------- RAW II
Flash ETTL,----------------- ETTL II
Energy BG-ED3,-------------- inbuilt
AF 7,---------------------- 45 (own PRO)
PRO DIGIC,---------------- DIGIC II
conn. USB 1.1,-------------- USB, FIREWIRE
storage CF,-------------------- CF and SD
price ~ 1300.- €,-----------~ 4000.- € plus

and some more

So get what you need or better what you want. :D


Dieter

[Ballen Photo]

Oh Boy! As noted, the MK II is one HECK of a camera, and I'd be REAL happy with it.
Now, I dont know anything about your finances, but here's a thought;
MK II = $4500.
10D + two "L" lenses = $4500?
........Bruce

[CoolToolGuy]

Hello:

I won't need 8fps for a wedding, but do need 1fps, for sometimes 10 consecutive frames. Anything faster and my flash will have trouble keeping up. Even at this slower shooting rate, I think the buffer of the MkII would be beneficial over the 10D?

Anyone know if the MkII shutter is a lot louder than the 10D?

I'm also (prematurely?) dismissing the Koday/Canon hybrid. Don't like the idea of a Sigma body wrapped around my Canon lenses. Guess I worry about possible reliability issues.

Thanks.

Duh, my brain wasn't fully engaged - I guess you would need quite some flash system to keep up for 8.5 frames, but multiple shots are the real issue. Perhaps the buffer of the MKII is a bonus there. And you can slow the MKII down to 3 FPS - this might be good because the shutter button may be too sensitive at 8.5 FPS.

The Sigma issue is very interesting, and a few pointed questions to Kodak might be appropriate to see where they sit on this (it is their product). I don't see how Kodak can ignore complete compatiblity with the EF lens system, but this will come out quickly after the camera hits the street as photogs mount up their lenses.

Have Fun
Rick 8)

[CoolToolGuy]

I hear that there is a new Canon flash coming that will be above or replace the 550EX. No more details, but this may be an interesting development considering E-TTLII in the 1D MkII

Have Fun
Rick 8)

[Ballen Photo]

I hear that there is a new Canon flash coming that will be above or replace the 550EX. No more details, but this may be an interesting development considering E-TTLII in the 1D MkII


Hmm, I heard a rumor stating just the opposite, that the 550EX was it through this next generation. I guess that's why they call them rumors? Because you STILL have to wait and see? :shock:
..........Bruce

[CoolToolGuy]

I hear that there is a new Canon flash coming that will be above or replace the 550EX. No more details, but this may be an interesting development considering E-TTLII in the 1D MkII


Hmm, I heard a rumor stating just the opposite, that the 550EX was it through this next generation. I guess that's why they call them rumors? Because you STILL have to wait and see? :shock:
..........Bruce

I never know what to believe and what not to believe until I see the announcement. We all have the things we would like to happen, and who knows, really. I know that I am underwhelmed by the automatic performance of my 550EX on my Drebel. Photokina is how far away?... :?

[TonyKInTexas]

One nit. ISO on a 10D CAN go to 3200 if you override it in the menus. That is in the manual and is considered a feature to prevent accidents.

Get it this way:

fps 3,-------------------- 8,5
ISO 100-1600,----------- 50-3200
crop 1,6,------------------ 1,3
Monitor 120000,------------- 235000
Res 6,3MP,--------------- 8,2MP
Format RAW,----------------- RAW II
Flash ETTL,----------------- ETTL II
Energy BG-ED3,-------------- inbuilt
AF 7,---------------------- 45 (own PRO)
PRO DIGIC,---------------- DIGIC II
conn. USB 1.1,-------------- USB, FIREWIRE
storage CF,-------------------- CF and SD
price ~ 1300.- €,-----------~ 4000.- € plus

and some more

So get what you need or better what you want. :D


Dieter

[CyberDyneSystems]

Just an aside,. the 10D's 9 frames at 3 FPS .. is probably adaquate for the the job at hand. As we would need to wait for the flash to recycle the 10D won't be shooting at 3 FPS.. so cut that in thirds to 1 fps and the 10D can keep up rather well... the only times I have run out of frame buffer on the 10D is when I have shot bursts.. if I am shooting one shot at a time,. it has allways kept up despite it's slow card write speed.

That said,. the 1D bodies have a lt to offer..:)

[WestFalcon]

As a veteran of 25 years of wedding photography, I think that peace of mind knowing that you are using a professional quality camera is worth a lot. The 10D focusing issue has caused me some problems with my 2- 10D's. The new Mark II should have this problem solved with a true professionally accurate system. How much is your daughter's wedding pictures worth? To me, they are priceless and I would like to use the best equipment that I can afford. I am using 10D's now with 645 or 35 mm backups of key shots. My wife wants me to buy it(nice wife huh) for the reasons I have given. The 10D's do a very nice job but I really don't think that Canon intended these cameras to be professional only but more of an advanced amateur/professional camera. I am not a full time professional so this is a rather large investment but I think it will be a wise investment for a person doing professional weddings at a rate of 15-20 a year. What do you think of this analogy? An A2 is to a 1N as a 10D is to a Mark II. I always used a 1N for film shots at wedding since it was the best Canon had for a while, not the A2 which is a nice camera but not made to the same standards as the 1n.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Having now used both the "Elan" level 7 point AF in the 10D and DRebel and the "1" series 45 point AF in a 1D.. were I shooting professionally,.. I might insist on a "1" if only for the AF.

The difference is rather dramatic!

[jkelley]

You can buy 2 10Ds for less than the price of 1 MkII. If you are a wedding photographer, I would think it would be essential to have at LEAST 1 back-up body, if not more. Failures will occur and if you don't have a back-up plan, it would be a disaster (for the bride and groom).

If $ is not an object, then get 2 MkIIs.

I have recently hired a wedding photographer for a job in July and have interviewed many photographers who use the 10D. Looking at their porfolios, I am certain the 10D is up to job...

[DaveG]

I hear that there is a new Canon flash coming that will be above or replace the 550EX. No more details, but this may be an interesting development considering E-TTLII in the 1D MkII

Have Fun
Rick 8)

I was at a lecture by the local Canon rep a couple of weeks ago, and that was the first question he got. He said that he had heard of no replacement for the 550EX and pointed out that with the Mark II the improvements in E-TTL II are all in the camera and the required lenses, not the flash.

A lot of the E-TTL II is based on the multi focus points that the Mark II has. My question was whether E-TTL II could be a firmware upgrade which he told us it wasn't.

Now he wouldn't be privy (for not more than a few days anyway) to what is really going on at Canon, but if there is 550EX replacement what camera would it be for? Obviously the Mark II doesn't need it? And would Canon introduce a camera like that and have IT be obsolescent the second this new flash (which must do something) comes out?

No I think that if they had it ready, the Mark II would have needed it, and it would have been introduced at PMA.