Objective Opinions?

[Zeke]

Ok. I'm a happy-snapper from way back, I love photography, but have always owned 'point & click' cameras. I currently have a Kodak DX6490, which is a great little camera at 4MP and 10X optical zoom - it does a great job for what it is, and the price I paid.

I really want to get my hands on some quality SLR gear to learn the ropes - but can't decide wther to go digital or not... Digital photography is my end result (I'm a graphic designer) ut some people have suggested I'd be better to learn on a film camera, but can't offer any reasoning other than 'it's traditional'...

Thoughts?

[Case]

Zeke,

I recently made the move from p&s to digital SLR (i bought a 10d). I can't see why film would be better to learn on...in fact the instant feedback I get from my 10d is making it easier to learn. Shot doesn't work? try something else, then keep trying. Since you want to be in digital for work, and finances permitting :), go the dSLR.

Chris

[CoolToolGuy]

If you really want to learn that way, you would have to go back to the pre-automation cameras (like the Canon FD cameras), and I don't think many people want to go back that far.

The reason I say that is that with say, an F1, you had to do everything manually - focus and set both the shutter speed and the aperture. It will absolutely force you to learn more about exposure, focusing, etc.

But just to be using film has nothing to do with it unless you consider the development and printing.

I say go with digital, and preferably a DSLR. You can learn just as much, and perhaps more with a little will power. Use manual mode and check each shot as you shoot it. Some call it 'chimping', looking down at each shot on the LCD, but that gives you something you could never get with film (except Polaroid) - instant feedback. You can see the result immediately, and if you make a change, you see the result of that change right away. Look at the settings, and you will begin to get a handle on the basics.

Hope this helps.

[Zeke]

Thanks guys, some great advice there.

Would a 300D be a good entry level DSLR?

[mttmrphy]

Thanks guys, some great advice there.

Would a 300D be a good entry level DSLR?

http://www.photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=29041

[mson]

A film camera would FORCE you to think about what you are doing before you release the shutter. With digital I think we all tend to get a little lazy and shoot what we think is good, look at the results, then reshoot and get it right. Slide film would make you think even more.

That being said, I have an Elan 7E. I found myself not wanting to experiment with different settings because I didn't want to waste money on an entire roll and not get anything worthwhile. I’ve had my 300D for about a month and have taken over 700 shots.

If you have the money, get the 300D or 10D. BUT force yourself to really try and get the shot right on the first try. It will make you a better photographer in the long run.

[scottbergerphoto]

I've learned more in two years with digital then 10 years with film. The reason, instant feedback. With digital, you can set your camera to 10 different settings for the same picture and get instant feedback. You can mindlessly click away on film, just as easily as you can on digital. The difference is that with film, if you haven't meticulously written down your settings for each shot, by the time you get it back, you have no idea what you did. I also found when shooting film, that I was at the mercy of the photo lab. When I got a film scanner, I realized how bad some labs are.

Which ever digital camera you decide on, stay out of P or Auto. Use M, Tv, Av. Make concious choices about why you choose a particular mode at a particular time. Use different equivalent f stop/shutter combinations and note the differences. The same with flash.
Regards,
Scott

[PhotosGuy]

Would a 300D be a good entry level DSLR?

I'm a "film guy" with 40 years experience & I've had a 300D for two months. The more I use it, the better I like it.

No, it's not perfect, but really, no camera is, so eventually, you'll own more than one Canon digital camera anyway. I think it's an excellent 'starter' cam, & will still be a good backup cam a few years from now when you 'upgrade' to whatever is the "camera of the month" then.

On the other hand, It's really doesn't matter what you use as long as you use it a lot & learn from the experience. Eventually you'll find that you can't do something with your current cam that you have a burning desire to do, & you'll 'upgrade'. (If you have any money left after these guys talk you into buying all the L lenses!)

[CyberDyneSystems]

Zeke,

This is a digital forum.. and there for I am bound by law to tell you to "Forget Film" lol :roll:

The 300D/Rebel will set you up quite nicely indeed.

There are a few photogs that have made the leap to an SLR recently on this forum and the results can be startling!

Although we do like to assume that the camera does not make the photog.. that does not change the fact that better tools can make your job easier and can allow you to accomplish things that were not possible before.

In our "Share forums" we recently had our pal Rocky2 make the switch from a Pro90IS to a 10D.. Rocky2 had allways done an imressive job of overcoming the Pro90's shortcomings when it came to capturing the local wildlife with the cameras limited focal range.. but within weeks of having the 10D and a modest zoom lens (75-300mm) he has posted images that in years of owning the Pro 90 he could never achieve.

Grab that Drebel and show what you can do! :)

[PhotosGuy]

This is a difital forum.. and there for eI am bound by law to tell "Forget Film" lol
Well, I don't do "difital", anyway!
:lol:

Kodak's stock is down. The King is dead! Long live the King! :lol:

Still, there are some things I continue to like about film. But digital is just too easy to use to ignore it, now that the quality is up.
(And, some things I hate, too. Did you ever retouch a color "C" print? Then, 20-30 years later, the print has faded but the dyes are still bright. Yetch!)

[Jesper]

If your end result is going to be digital, it's much easier and better to use a good digital camera.

Before I bought my 10D, I was using my EOS 30 (= Elan 7E in the USA) and a film scanner to scan my slides. It was a lot of work that took a lot of time. First, bring the film to a shop for development. Wait a few days until it comes back. Scan the film, watch out for dust etc. because the smallest dust particle causes a blob in the scan. Scanning itself is slow and a lot of adjustments to get good color, constrast etc. are necessary. It costs you a few hours to make high-res scans of one roll of film. The scans always have film grain and some blobs because of dust. All that has to be edited away, which takes more time.

With the 10D, everything is SO MUCH faster and easier. No film grain - the 10D (and also the 300D) have very low noise, you can see your photo on the LCD immediately and download them on the computer immediately, no need to clean up every frame, no hassle with film, no problem with X-ray at airports, etc...

[BoySpot]

Why do some people seem to object to P mode. Is them some snobbish quality about using Tv or Av and letting the camera do everything for you in those modes. P is fine. You can still choose your speed or aperture with the shifting.

P is not the same as using the automatic modes which control everything. It's just another metering mode and you still have lots of control.

[nosquare2003]

The thread asked for objective opinions. Does "objective opinions" really exist here? :wink:

I'm here to provide my "subjective" opinion -- get the 300D and you will learn fast :evil:

[CyberDyneSystems]

Why do some people seem to object to P mode. Is them some snobbish quality about using Tv or Av and letting the camera do everything for you in those modes. P is fine. You can still choose your speed or aperture with the shifting.

P is not the same as using the automatic modes which control everything. It's just another metering mode and you still have lots of control.

I'm right with you there!

I use "P" most of time.. maybe 50%.. with all the other modes taking up the other 50% of the time..

When the lighting situation is changing quickly and frequently,. I prefer to have it in P

[CoolToolGuy]

Why do some people seem to object to P mode. Is them some snobbish quality about using Tv or Av and letting the camera do everything for you in those modes. P is fine. You can still choose your speed or aperture with the shifting.

P is not the same as using the automatic modes which control everything. It's just another metering mode and you still have lots of control.

I'm right with you there!

I use "P" most of time.. maybe 50%.. with all the other modes taking up the other 50% of the time..

When the lighting situation is changing quickly and frequently,. I prefer to have it in P

I am with you on this. The P mode does a great job most of the time. :D

The thread started out about learning. The manual modes and the other automation modes will allow or force you to become knowledgable in the variables of the exposure. So when you encounter a shot that is not right in the P mode you will know what you can change to get the shot you want. That is the hazard of cameras that do everything for you - there is little incentive to learn when you can just go around clicking your finger off, getting great shots 90% of the time. The best shots are often in the other 10%. :wink:

[karusel]

One single argument: if you plan on buying film SLR to then get digital SLR, you will have to learn twice, and will loose a lot of money, time, perhaps even patience.

[Canuck]

Why do some people seem to object to P mode. Is them some snobbish quality about using Tv or Av and letting the camera do everything for you in those modes. P is fine. You can still choose your speed or aperture with the shifting.

P is not the same as using the automatic modes which control everything. It's just another metering mode and you still have lots of control.

I'm right with you there!

I use "P" most of time.. maybe 50%.. with all the other modes taking up the other 50% of the time..

When the lighting situation is changing quickly and frequently,. I prefer to have it in P

Yes, but you loose the ability o shoot RAW in P mode. I shoot almost exclusively manual, other than when I want to see what the camera suggests and try it in M for the RAW function.

[htbyron]

Yes, but you loose the ability o shoot RAW in P mode. I shoot almost exclusively manual, other than when I want to see what the camera suggests and try it in M for the RAW function.

I'm pretty sure you can shoot RAW in P mode, at least with the 300D & the 10D (I don't have one yet, but I'm shopping/choosing & been reading manuals, etc.). FWIW, I can do so with my G3.

Tom

[PhotosGuy]

I'm pretty sure you can shoot RAW in P mode, at least with the 300D & the 10D
Yes, you can. To check without using the manual, just pick a mode & check the menu to see what's available in that mode.