I know.ANOTHER price thread(CAD), but be happy that photography has led me to this Q!

[cskn0125]

SCROLL DOWN TO MY LAST POST PLEASE. (#9)

Hey guys. First off, I have read whichever threads we offer for pricing but I still wanted a thread deticated to my specific situation. Thanks for understanding in advance.

Venting:
Well, If some of you visit the sports sub-forum, you will know that I shot a paintball tournament over the weekend. After posting a few images in a local paintball forum, word has gotten around, demand has struck, and I am surprised but very pleased to hear people asking that they would actually pay for my images.

Being That this was my First time shooting speedball, let alone a tournament...I Hadn't lost hope, but did not think there would be this much demand.


What i am asking:

How much do you think I should charge for these images. I pulled some prices from a fellow photographers website ( and a member here!) and here are his:

High res Digital image: 10.00 / 8x10 print: $20 / 8X12 print: $25 ALL PRICES CAD btw. (these happen to be prices for paintball images as well on his site[timsbits.com])

I listed only these prices as I think they would be the most popular type.

How much should I Charge for my images? I don't want to charge too much but i dont know what to do.

Heres a few samples of my work:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v468/cskn0125/IMG_5435copy-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v468/cskn0125/IMG_5462copy-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v468/cskn0125/IMG_5846copy.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v468/cskn0125/IMG_5911copy.jpg

[cskn0125]

I guess I could use this as a time to also ask: What do these images look like on a calibrated LCD monitor? Mine is not, but I have edited these pictures to my monitors and my eyes likings. This worries me, as i know calibrated monitors view (obviously) different.

For the record, I am using a Samsung SyncMaster 940BW (19" wide)

[fortinaa]

First off, the photos look well edited to me on a calibrated monitor. Of course, it is hard to know without having been there to see the true colors in the first place. In any case, contrast, exposure, and tonality look good.

As far as pricing goes, I wouldn't worry about how long you've been doing it, or that it is your first time out. Your images look good, and you should charge what the market will bear. Timbits pricing is right in line with what I charge when I shoot events and sell 8x10 images. I haven't been to his site, but the only things you are missing are some paint splatter action on these. If the people are looking for the type of shots you have posted and have expressed interest, that doesn't matter, just something to focus on in future shoots. My guess is that if you offer $10 hi rez images, you'll sell a ton of those and not many prints. I sell web rez images for $8 (same cost as a 4x6). If you are going to lose out on print sales of an image altogether, you might as well make it worthwhile. $15ea or $10ea for 3 or more.

Just my 2cents

[bcap]

Hi,

I did see your thread in the sports section and if you recall I did post what I thought was a better edit. I think the photos you have are really fantastic. Great composition and I like how you really tried to get the faces in the photos.

Two pieces of criticism, to me (on a hardware callibrated monitor), the photos still have a green tint to them and, like someone else said, see if you can get some paint splash next time.

As for pricing. I am also in Canada and do events very frequently. We sell 8x10s for $20, 2 5x7s for $20 and 3 images on a CD for $20. So, by the sounds of it, your prices are dead on what I would charge.

The only thing I see wrong with charing $10 for 1 pic is that it will draw away from your other sales. I would say go $15 or 3 for $20 or something like that. That way people think "Ok, I could get a print for $20, or get the digital image for $15 and print it off myself for $1. And then I have the photo to use whenever I want - for my site, email, etc". See what I mean?

[cskn0125]

Thats a lot guys, that was really helpful. I'm going to go with both of your advice and offer more than one high res image.

Thanks again.

[mtbkanata]

I do two digital images... Medium Res (Which will print a 4x6) for $10, and a high-res for $20. Once they have the high-res, they can print whatever they want, so I think that offering the two choices is good... plus, then you don't have people buying a $10 high-res and making their own 8x10 for $2.99 at Walmart. (YUCK)

[cosworth]

Don't forget your browser won't show these images correctly with a calibrated monitor. You'd have to downloadd them and view them with a colour managed program (Windoes Photo Gallery from Vista for example).

That being said I think you should charge more. It legitimizes your work and dedication plus it weeds out the time wasters.

The first rule of sales is the happiest customer pays the most. Just go look at some L glass threads!

[cskn0125]

Thanks for the info guys!

[cskn0125]

Hey guys, Bringing this thread back up because i have another question

I've been contacted by someone wanting a high res disk of the image I am about to post. He wants all rights to it. Advertisements ( I would imagine), banners, and probably website usage. How much do I charge for something like this? Would this still be the same rate as everything else post in the original post, or since he is going to most liely use it for promotional items, would the price be diff.?

Heres the picture.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v468/cskn0125/IMG_5446copy.jpg


Need an answer quick, thanks

[cskn0125]

anyone? Sorry, just need to get back to him asap.

[fortinaa]

There are other pricing threads and resources that let you put in the specifics of usage and generate a number for you. Unfortunately, since you shot this for typical event sales, it is unfair for you to single out a photo they want and upcharge for it beyond what your normal hi resolution photo purchase would be. You will have to explain that the upcharge you are looking at is for giving them the full rights of usage, which the hi-res photo disk does not (most people would have just taken the disk without mention of usage). I am not sure where I would price this image to turn over rights. They are not going to be making money from the image, just using it to promote their paintball club. I am just going to throw out a number and say I'd be happy getting $100 for full usage rights.

[cskn0125]

thanks fortinaa. Thats helps.

[totalphoto]

Chris, i just hooked up with a guy in my home town, check out his site and click on a picture to see the pricing.
www.zoomphoto.ca

Joe who own zoomphoto has thought alot of thing through, and he is very, very fair. it the old saying "Treat your customers like you want to be treated"

His shipping tells the whole story, he wants people to get thier photos and not reemed for shipping. He is one smart dude.
Tell me what you think!
Leon

[cskn0125]

Very nice, Thanks a lot Leon... this helps much.

[totalphoto]

Oh Ya, Love your shots! I'd Buy!

[cskn0125]

Thanks, I really appreciate the compliments.

[sfaust]

When they say they want all rights, what exactly are they asking for? Exclusive, non-exclusive, advertising, worldwide, local, regional, all languages, brochures, billboards, television, sales to third parties/stock agencies, or ...? They probably aren't aware of what they are asking for, but just using buzz words.

All rights means they want the ability to do anything they desire with the image. Basically a shared copyright agreement. That means they can submit the images to stock agencies and collect the funds on the sales. They could sell the image to a paint ball manufacturer which could then be used in national advertising for which he could benefit from the usage fees. He could even limit your ability to use the image if you gave him all rights, which can include exclusive rights.

When asked for all rights from a client, I mention that they are asking for the rights to produce billboards in the UK, as well as a small picture on their brochure. Typically, what they really want is to use the image for anything they are likely to use it for, which normally doesn't involve worldwide rights in all media.

This gets us into a dialog as to what they really want, and then we write up a usage rights agreement that fits their intended purpose, but is far short of giving them all rights. Usually it works out to be non-exclusive usage, north America, for all marketing, advertising, promotional or personal use of the company or person buying the image, with no third party sales. I also include language that releases are the responsibility of the client unless it was arranged before the shoot so I had time to gather the proper releases. We both end up happy, them getting all the rights they actually need at a much lower rate, and me keeping control over my image rights.

Another thing to be aware of. If you give them advertising rights, you should have a signed model release for everyone in that image. If not, you are exposing yourself to a possible lawsuit for using a persons image for commercial use without permission. If its for editorial use, you usually don't need a release. But for advertising you do. I would also have in the agreement that if they use it for advertising purposes, they are responsible for obtaining the necessary releases for people and property.

Unfortunately, since you shot this for typical event sales, it is unfair for you to single out a photo they want and upcharge for it beyond what your normal hi resolution photo purchase would be.

I disagree with this for a number of reasons. First, you shot it and priced it for event sales, not for advertising or commercial use. Event sales is far different from commercial use, and both are priced very differently. Image rights are not based on how or why you shot the image, but are based on how the image is used. Usage rights for an image used in a brochure for a local company might pull in $100 or so. The same image used in a national magazine with a subscription base of 300K might pull in $5K. This is how the industry works once you venture outside of retail and into commercial or advertising.

If the person wants the image for advertising, it doesn't matter that you would sell the same image at an event for $20. The event sale will only be viewed by a very limited number of people for their personal enjoyment. The advertising image could be viewed by hundreds, thousands, or more, and with the purpose of selling a product or service. The value of each is very different.

It is no more unfair to ask for a significant increase over the event price when used for unlimited usage in advertising, than it would be for Adobe to charge you significantly more for a license that allows you to run an unlimited number of its Photoshop application throughout your 50 person business.

If it was only for local promotion, a couple banners, and web site usage, $100 might be reasonable (imo on the low side based on Alamy, Getty, FotoQuote, and Workbook stock quotes). But I would also give him a written usage agreement that limits the usage to those mentioned. For all rights, no restrictions, I'd be talking $5K or more, which is a bargain if you look at any pricing model published in the industry for usage rights. Which also brings me back to the above. Does he really need rights to use the image on billboards in the UK? He would be paying for it with all rights, and he should understand thats what he is asking and paying for.

I wouldn't worry about what you are selling the event images for. If he mentions that it seems unfair that the event images are say $20, let him know that for $20 all the purchaser only gets an 8x10 print that they can put on their fireplace mantle, and no rights whatsoever to make copies or use it for anything other than what it is. A nice framed print. What he is asking for is far different, and would need to be priced accordingly.


BTW, GREAT IMAGES cskn0125. You also asked about how they look on a calibrated monitor since yours wasn't. They look great. The white balance drifted between shots, so I'm guessing that you used AWB while shooting. But its minor and doesn't in any way detract from the images. I only mention it because you asked specifically about it.

[cskn0125]

Thanks so much Stephen, I was just going to ask someone to go a little more in depth, but you hit it right on the nail!. This helped tremendously. Its sucks being someone who knows nothing about this but at the same time its pretty awesome to have helpful people like you and the rest of potn.

thanks again stephen

eDIT: Thanks for answering that calibration question I asked, I've got a calibrator coming in the mail and it should be here on friday!