Local store questions (long and rambling, sorry)

[mcneguy]

I was in my local store today looking for a larger bag. The Canon rep was talking to the owner of the store and I wasn't paying too much attention until the owner said "I can't wait for this internet thing to end, those guys are killing me". Then I said (by the way, apparently I have no angel on my shoulder telling me to just shut up in instances like this) "Maybe you should adapt" to which the owner replied "Why should I adapt, they're the ones ruining it for everyone" then it degenerated into myself, the Canon rep and the owner of the store arguing about why Internet sales are not going away and if this guy wants to stay in business he can either sell to people who have never picked up a copy of "Popular Photography" or adapt.

He gave the standard arguments about service, local ownership, blah blah blah and I told him that the average consumer is interested in one thing, price. I don't care about service, I'm pretty well informed and don't really need them to do anything for me but get the thing and ring it up. I did tell him about when I bought my Tamron 28-75 f2.8 DI in his store a couple of weeks ago, about how I came in wanting to buy the Canon 24-70 f2.8l and the salesman went above and beyond to show me that the Tamron lens was a much better buy so I bought it and in fact paid about $40 more than B&H because of the service I recieved there but last week I ordered a Canon 70-200 f4l from B&H because they had it for $579 and his store wouldn't budge from the $679 price they had. $100 extra was not worth it for me to get it locally, plus the tax I pay here is way more than shipping from B&H, the only advantage is that I get my lens on the spot and if I needed it right away I would have bought it.

This got me to thinking about my other obscenely expensive hobby, playing guitar. I have 11 guitars, we guitarists call it GAS or Guitar Acquisition Syndrome. All of my guitars are Fenders, Martins, Guilds, and Heritage, all made in USA. I buy each and every one of them at a family owned, very small store because they will always match Internet and mail order prices and I would never EVER buy a guitar that I didn't play first. Why does the music store always match places like Musicians Friend online and photo stores never even think of matching prices of places like B&H or Adorama.

I know that I do not own my own business but I guess I don't understand why the local photo shop owners won't work with me on prices when the local music store is happy to.

Discuss...

[CoolToolGuy]

Well, their costs are higher, for the store space they have to rent, the cashiers and salespeople they have to pay, etc. I don't know about photo gear, but with other things like books and CDs, some of the online vendors don't even have to have inventory - when you order it, the order goes to a jobber or the manufacturer who ships it out to you.

I agree that the stores need to adapt. I try to support my local store as much as possible, because I don't want the alternatives to be online or Ritz. I buy online when it makes the most sense. But especially with small, independent stores, their attitude and their creativity may be limiting factors in their ability to adapt.

[slin100]

From what I've read, the margins on cameras and lenses are razor thin. Furthermore, high-volume stores are given preferential wholesale pricing, which enables them to pass some of the savings on to the consumer. These two facts make it very difficult for a mom-and-pop shop to compete on price.

Your experience with guitars may not be applicable if the margins are different.

[CoolToolGuy]

From what I've read, the margins on cameras and lenses are razor thin. Furthermore, high-volume stores are given preferential wholesale pricing, which enables them to pass some of the savings on to the consumer. These two facts make it very difficult for a mom-and-pop shop to compete on price.

Your experience with guitars may not be applicable if the margins are different.

Good point, because guitars are not nearly the commodity that cameras are. Especially for American Fenders, etc. You may find a Taiwanese Stratocaster copy in BJs or Wal-Mart but the market for good guitars is so small that they couldn't possibly sell them. Besides, could you imagine going into Wal-Mart and asking to play that Martin or Taylor before you buy it? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sad to say, but cameras have become a commodity. I hope the good camera stores can adapt. They need something in the digital age to replace film sales and developing, which kept the traffic coming in regularly.

[Tom W]

Well, their costs are higher, for the store space they have to rent, the cashiers and salespeople they have to pay, etc. I don't know about photo gear, but with other things like books and CDs, some of the online vendors don't even have to have inventory - when you order it, the order goes to a jobber or the manufacturer who ships it out to you.

I agree that the stores need to adapt. I try to support my local store as much as possible, because I don't want the alternatives to be online or Ritz. I buy online when it makes the most sense. But especially with small, independent stores, their attitude and their creativity may be limiting factors in their ability to adapt.

Well, it isn't just the high cost of the storefront and cashiers - B&H has that as well. But B&H also has a huge volume of sales not only from walk-ins, but also from telephone and from internet sales.

What would be cool is if Mark could design a web site for this guy that could get him into a competitive situation with the big shops. I know that's a huge endeavor, but I don't think that the store owner is going to make it unless he offers some outstanding additional services (like maybe being an authorized Canon and/or N*kon repair center if they have those).

[Vegas Poboy]

Here locally we have two Pro shops & I try to support both of them as much as possible but if I can save more than $50.00 I let them know I'll go online. and make the purchase In fact one of the stores I hang around about once a week have started working with me on prices to where they won't match it but come real close to some of the online prices. I also refer other customers to them which becomes a win/win situation. Other things that I've learned about retail is location. Vegas gets alot of tourist & the prices & taxes @ the Pro shops is alot better than some of the overseas stores so everyone wins on that deal also.

[defordphoto]

As much as a bummer as it is to lose local shops, price usually wins out and the locals lose. The times are-a-changin' and the consumer drivers the economy and where it goes. We like customer service too, but not at 40% higher prices! If the price margin was closer then I'd be more tempted to buy local, but it's not even close so the Internet wins out, plain and simple. If they can't play then they'll go away. Again, plain and simple. It's kinda like the Internet is a worldwide WalMart and no one can compete.

Yeah...the Internet is a monopoly upon itself. Disconnect it.

That's going to happen. Not.

[CoolToolGuy]

I let the local shop know what I can get it for from B&H, and they let me know how close they can come. Sometimes they do very well, and sometimes they don't. I don't try to slam them with a price from one of the bad places because I would never buy from one of them. If they can't come close, I tell them up front, and we are both okay with that. I think because I have bought a lot from them they are more willing to deal with me to keep me as a customer. Then comes the service. I lost the rubber eyecup on the Drebel, and they didn't have one in stock. They took the one off of the display and loaned it to me, and ordered one for me. I get to test fit camera bags - which I guess I could do at any store, but not if all the stores went out of business. :(

This can't happen with the big chains - the manager at the local Ritz has zero flexibility to deal to retain a customer, and I have been told by them that they "don't handle" Canon factory lens hoods - "but we have these real nice collapsible ones." :?

Plus, the day is coming in many states (in the US) when the onlines will have to charge sales tax. That used to be a bonus in the online world, but as more and more sales happen online, the state sales tax revenues go down, and those teachers, firemen, and police still have to be paid, so the states are taking their show online. :shock:

[IndyJeff]

I was down at Roberts Camera one day this winter, a guy is talking about a lens with the counter guy. The customer mentions some website where he can get the lens for $175 less. The counter guy said plain and simple, "there is no way to sell that lens new at that price. That is less than what we pay for it. If you want this one, that's our price. If you would rather, go online and buy it." The guy grumbled some and then left. About the time I was ready to leave the counter guy comes up to his fellow counter guy who was helping me and said the price at that website was $75 cheaper, not $175. At which point we all kinda chuckled.

Somebody mentioned before about onliners using jobbers, some online stores take the order and then have it shipped to you with their shipping label on it from the supplier.

Some larger stores who do walkin, catalog, phone and online sales buy a large amount and get a good discount by doing so. If they can move an item and make $50, 30 times in a month, they will by underpricing the competition by $30-$100 lets say. Volume sales makes up for a larger profit. If they listed the item at the suggested manufacturers retail price they may only sell 10 a month and make $100 on each sale but, 30 X $50 would result in a gross of $1500. More volume, less profit but more gross revenue in the end. Simple, see?

Ever try to sell something to Wal-Mart? They tell you what the price will be, not ask what your price is.

[Jmurman]

Well, I am on both ends of the argument.

I buy online because thats HOW I like to buy. I also SELL online because thats my job.

My other passion is cigars. I can almost always get a better price online than I can at a retail location. There are time where I cannot get the exact smoke I am looking for, and thats where the local retailer comes in.

On the other hand I am the Internet Sales Manager for a Honda dealership, and I sell Hondas online. Very competitive business, with some dealers selling BELOW actual cost. I know that any retailer has to make a profit to keep the doors open, however, if a retailer was smart they would also have a web site...its just good business.

Some people get it and some dont....