Light Meters

[spphoto]

Hey, I'm mostly a portrait photographer but recently have been branching out into weddings. I've used flash and ambient light meters before, but don't actually own one. I can definatly see the pro's of using one, but I've been just rattling off a few test shots and using the histogram to get my exposures right in studio. On location I usually use either the cameras metering or manual with flash. When I shoot film in studio I get the exposure on the digital first and then dial that into the other camera (that's a pain in the behind and the biggest reason for this thread) and on location it's the same as digital, camera meter combined with flash and manual.

Now that you know my background, my question! How many of you regularily use light meters? Has anyone used one but abandoned it? I'm thinking of getting a Sekonic L-358, which I've used before, but before I drop the $400 I'd like to be sure.

[tim]

L358 isn't that expensive is it? I find the L358 great for strobes, but I tend to use the histogram to work out exposure mostly. There's probably something wrong with my technique, but when I use it to set exposure outside of the studio the results are a bit hit and miss.

[coreypolis]

They can help, especially with multiple flashes. Ettl blows IMO, so anything that helps shoot in M is gravy.


Just a side note about shooting in digi for film exposures. The working EI of the film is most likely different than that of the stated iso on the box, and even that is different than the digital equivalent. You can get close, but the photo nerds will tell you that a light meter and knowing your working EI is the better way.

I used a Minolta Flashmeter VI, but apparently they are no longer for sale. I had much better success with them vs the Sekonics.

[Scott_Quier]

I have the Sekonic 358, love it.

You can find it at B&H (here (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=221078&is=REG&addedTroughType=search)) for $259 USD. Something to think about. Abandon it? I don't think so!

[spphoto]

Ya, the L358 is $379 or so at Vistek (Canada's answer to B&H). There's no point in ordering one from the states for me because we end up paying the price difference in taxes and border fees. I don't mind paying that much for it, I just wanted to be sure that I'd use it.

[picturecrazy]

I use the 358 for off camera flash metering at times. I find it's pretty accurate for that. But I don't use it for ambient readings. I find my in-camera meter to do quite well in this situation, provided you know what EC a particular scene needs.

[spphoto]

Ya, I find I'm not great at guessing EC, so I'm thinking it might be smarter to take incident readings than to futz around with EC while people are waiting.

[DocFrankenstein]

I was very hesitant about dropping 220 bucks on a meter, but it turned out one of the best investments I've made. I use it any time I have an opportunity to actually meter, which is 90% of the type of shooting I do.

It's a really nice, well designed tool with a friendly interface.

[Hassan2285]

I was very hesitant about dropping 220 bucks on a meter, but it turned out one of the best investments I've made. I use it any time I have an opportunity to actually meter, which is 90% of the type of shooting I do.

It's a really nice, well designed tool with a friendly interface.


quick question.

are you talking about the one mentioned above or do you use a different meter? If so which one.

thanks

[DocFrankenstein]

I went with 358 after using a version of minolta V. Minolta is said to me more stable, but sekonic has a more friendly interface so I went with that one.

Now minolta isn't made and I think L358 has very nice characteristics as compared to other brands.

There's that 600 series multimeter, but it's way too bulky and expensive for me.

[Phil Light]

I was very hesitant about dropping 220 bucks on a meter, but it turned out one of the best investments I've made. I use it any time I have an opportunity to actually meter, which is 90% of the type of shooting I do.

It's a really nice, well designed tool with a friendly interface.

Doc, do you do mostly studio work? It seems like most people don't want to bother with one outside of a studio.

[DocFrankenstein]

Doc, do you do mostly studio work? It seems like most people don't want to bother with one outside of a studio.
I do quite a bit of stuff I do is with a manual flash, but it's nor necessarily studio.

A lot of the times I prefer an ambient reading to a reflected one.

Granted there are some styles of shooting whch favour a reflective reading.

[photosbylisa]

I have the Sekonic 358, love it.

You can find it at B&H (here (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=221078&is=REG&addedTroughType=search)) for $259 USD. Something to think about. Abandon it? I don't think so!

I have the L358 and am NOT loving it :evil:

I am truly hoping that it is user error. I shoot with the 30D and every time I meter a subject for an outdoor portrait, it is ALWAYS underexposed. Yes, I'm in the right iso and metering mode.

I was told by a rep at the camera store where I bought both the camera & meter that because the 30D's sensor is so sensitive that if I want to meter correctly this is what I have to do. If I want to shoot iso 100 I have to meter 200, shoot iso 400 meter at 800 and so on.

I tried this tonight as well....didn't work :(

I will try playing around with the exposure compensation tomorrow.

Are you telling me that your meter is pretty much spot on?? Green w/ envy and wanting my meter to at least put me in the ball park!

[dave.richards]

Outdoors my L358 is pretty damn accurate as long as I am in open shade with consistent light. But like Tim said above, I find myself using the histogram more and more and really only pull out the L358 for studio work.

[Padawan Dad]

Contrary to what a lot of people are saying about the 358 with ambient light, mine is very accurate 100% of the time. Accurate with strobes as well. I absolutely love it! Is it possible to get bad copies? Maybe technique is an issue... I don't know; but mines perfect :D

[photosbylisa]

Contrary to what a lot of people are saying about the 358 with ambient light, mine is very accurate 100% of the time. Accurate with strobes as well. I absolutely love it! Is it possible to get bad copies? Maybe technique is an issue... I don't know; but mines perfect :D

I'm really hoping that it is user error. Honestly. I just want to know how to use this meter correctly. It's too expensive for my budget to just be a dust collector.

I want to get my exposures spot on....and not have to correct in ps

You shoot w/ the 30D as well...and you meter at the same iso as you shoot at?

Ugh, now I think I'm more frustrated to find somebody with the same camera & meter who loves it. I'll keep trying :)

[Scott_Quier]

I am truly hoping that it is user error. I shoot with the 30D and every time I meter a subject for an outdoor portrait, it is ALWAYS underexposed. Yes, I'm in the right iso and metering mode.

I was told by a rep at the camera store where I bought both the camera & meter that because the 30D's sensor is so sensitive that if I want to meter correctly this is what I have to do. If I want to shoot iso 100 I have to meter 200, shoot iso 400 meter at 800 and so on.

Run this by me again. How is that supposed to correct under exposure problems? The camera shop guy suggested you meter at ISO 200, get a reading, dial that in to your camera, set the camera ISO to 100 and shoot. If all equipment were spot on, this would cause the exposure to be 1 stop underexposed. And this process is supposed to correct under exposure problems?

FWIW - I also have come to rely more and more on the histogram when shooting outdoors. OK, I may have to shoot a couple of "setup" exposures to dial it in, but from then on it's pretty much set (unless the light changes).

BTW - I also have the 30D (and the 20D) and it works pretty much as intended.

[linarms]

I'm really hoping that it is user error. Honestly. I just want to know how to use this meter correctly. It's too expensive for my budget to just be a dust collector.

I want to get my exposures spot on....and not have to correct in ps

You shoot w/ the 30D as well...and you meter at the same iso as you shoot at?

Ugh, now I think I'm more frustrated to find somebody with the same camera & meter who loves it. I'll keep trying :)

Can you describe your metering technique for us?

I just sold my L-358 to Nick C. (here on POTN) but only because I decided not to pursue multi-light studio setups. That said, it was perfectly accurate with my 30D's ...

[Padawan Dad]

You shoot w/ the 30D as well...and you meter at the same iso as you shoot at?

Yes, I do indeed meter at the same ISO as I shoot. Although there may be a technical regulation as to what "perfect exposure" is (however, I am not aware of it,) I find perfect exposure to be subjective. It works for my taste spot on.

I use it mostly with indoor strobes, and for outdoor wedding formals using natural lighting... quick and very reliable for me.

[photosbylisa]

Can you describe your metering technique for us?

I just sold my L-358 to Nick C. (here on POTN) but only because I decided not to pursue multi-light studio setups. That said, it was perfectly accurate with my 30D's ...

For my studio strobes (4 B800's ) I know this will sound strange and even more user error...but, my exposures taken w/ L358 are actually overexposed. Meter will read F8 but I have to shoot at F11

I shoot cord mode...plug the meter into the main light. Go to where the subject will be sitting and aim the meter (in cord mode) at where the camera will be.

Outdoor I place the meter under the subjects chin pointing at where the camera will be. Making sure I'm not in the way of light. I have even had the subject hold the meter themselves pointed at where I am so I'm sure not to block light in anyway. But, outdoor, it gives me underexposed.

Maybe I am too picky with wanting it to be perfect? I always end up going by my histogram.

I will be doing some more outdoor experiments this afternoon. I am meeting with 2 other photogs that all have the same meter and one of them also shoots with the 30D as well. So, it will be a good test to see what I am doing wrong.

Thanks for your comments!

[Stan43]

I have a new Sekonic L-758DR. I take readings in the church before the start , switch the cameras to manual and don't look back. Seems to work well. Outside I rely more on spot meter.

[linarms]

For my studio strobes (4 B800's ) I know this will sound strange and even more user error...but, my exposures taken w/ L358 are actually overexposed. Meter will read F8 but I have to shoot at F11

I shoot cord mode...plug the meter into the main light. Go to where the subject will be sitting and aim the meter (in cord mode) at where the camera will be.

Outdoor I place the meter under the subjects chin pointing at where the camera will be. Making sure I'm not in the way of light. I have even had the subject hold the meter themselves pointed at where I am so I'm sure not to block light in anyway. But, outdoor, it gives me underexposed.

Maybe I am too picky with wanting it to be perfect? I always end up going by my histogram.

I will be doing some more outdoor experiments this afternoon. I am meeting with 2 other photogs that all have the same meter and one of them also shoots with the 30D as well. So, it will be a good test to see what I am doing wrong.

Thanks for your comments!

You definitely extend the dome the whole way?

[photosbylisa]

You definitely extend the dome the whole way?

Yes, dome is extended all the way. Today's tests outdoors went a little better. I adjusted the exposure on the meter to -0.6 and that seemed to help.

Although in reading my histograms today (which I really tried to do) I found that the shots I liked were the ones where the highlights were farther away from the right. I didn't like them even if they were touching the far end.

Did I explain that right? I think maybe I was confusing 1/3rd stops with full stops. So, in actuality it wasn't as far off as I was stating. :o

Every day is a new day and I learn something beneficial. So, my quest continues!

[linarms]

Okay ... I'll keep asking questions and maybe we'll eventually find something :-)

Are you using any filters on your lens?

[mizuno]

I find perfect exposure to be subjective.

But it's not. Perfect exposure is absolute.

[linarms]

But it's not. Perfect exposure is absolute.

Uh-oh ... Bill and mizuno are at it again :-D

I think there is such a thing as creative under- and over-exposure, but mizuno's right, to capture a particular scene with neither, it is possible to make a 'perfect' exposure. That said, film and to a lesser extent digital photography allow a little leeway without loss of detail. In particular, over-exposing slightly on digital is advisable to minimise noise issues.

[mizuno]

I'm just correcting misinformation. :)

There are people at all levels of photography on this site and we all have a responsibility to educate each other. People new to photography could read comments like that and assume that there is no such thing as a perfect exposure.

[photosbylisa]

Okay ... I'll keep asking questions and maybe we'll eventually find something :-)

Are you using any filters on your lens?

I have a clear hoya filter on the end that the camera guys tell me I must have to protect the lens. Cheaper to replace a scratched filter than glass.

Now, I've probably opened another whole can of worms because I have also heard that by putting a $28 filter on my $500 lens (I know that's not a lot of some people, but to me it's a ton) I've now got a $28 lens.

And, yes, I seek PERFECT exposure!

;)

[linarms]

Ok ... no polarizer or anything so exposure results should be fine.

If you've double checked your ISO and other settings and can't get an accurate (flashless) exposure ... you might have a faulty L-358.

Oh yeah ... if you're using a flash, don't forget it automagically brings your shutter speed down to 1/250 if you're not using HSS and have a faster shutter speed selected.

[Padawan Dad]

Uh-oh ... Bill and mizuno are at it again :-D

I think there is such a thing as creative under- and over-exposure, but mizuno's right, to capture a particular scene with neither, it is possible to make a 'perfect' exposure. That said, film and to a lesser extent digital photography allow a little leeway without loss of detail. In particular, over-exposing slightly on digital is advisable to minimise noise issues.

I'm not getting sucked in... we're all entitled to our own opinion. However, I think I can see what he is saying. I would guess when you nail exactly what you see through the viewfinder, it would be perfect exposure. Anything else would be artistic, I just wasn't aware that there was an official standard... thats all I'm saying.

[Padawan Dad]

But it's not. Perfect exposure is absolute.

"Only a Sith speaks in absolutes..." (Obi-Wan to Anakin in E3) Being a huge Star Wars fan, I couldn't resist ;)

[linarms]

"Only a Sith speaks in absolutes..." (Obi-Wan to Anakin in E3) Being a huge Star Wars fan, I couldn't resist ;)

:-D

[mizuno]

"Only a Sith speaks in absolutes..." (Obi-Wan to Anakin in E3) Being a huge Star Wars fan, I couldn't resist ;)

Sith's can't use the Force, though.

[hopkins]

So most of you do not use a lightmeter when doing weddings where you have a flash on you camera? How do you make sure you have everything set correctly?

I just bought a Sekonic L-358 but havn't figured out how to use it.

[Padawan Dad]

So most of you do not use a lightmeter when doing weddings where you have a flash on you camera? How do you make sure you have everything set correctly?

I just bought a Sekonic L-358 but havn't figured out how to use it.

I use mine for outdoor formals. As for the rest of the wedding, it varies every minute, you just have to be on top of it all of the time. I basically use Manual w/in camera evaluative metering, some spot depending on the circumstances.

[linarms]

So most of you do not use a lightmeter when doing weddings where you have a flash on you camera? How do you make sure you have everything set correctly?

I just bought a Sekonic L-358 but havn't figured out how to use it.

Fiddle-faddling with a meter at weddings is likely to cost you some shots, though for outdoor formals it's not a bad idea (as these are usually "set and forget" situations). I usually use manual mode + partial metering and expose off something like a face or dress (which I know from experience will need 2/3 to 1 1/3 stops of overexposure). That and my trusty histogram :-)

[DocFrankenstein]

I'm just correcting misinformation. :)

People new to photography could read comments like that and assume that there is no such thing as a perfect exposure.
Hahahaha

IMO there is no such thing as perfect exposure.

[linarms]

Hahahaha

IMO there is no such thing as perfect exposure.

Well, it is possible to get a 'perfect exposure' of a grey card.

So in theory, if you meter off a grey card which is receiving the same amount of light as everything else you care about in the frame, your exposure will be 'perfect'.

Of course this doesn't mean there is only one perfect ISO/aperture/shutter speed combination for any given photo ;-)

[DocFrankenstein]

I don't photograph grey cards very often. Do you?

[linarms]

I don't photograph grey cards very often. Do you?

No, but that's not really the point, is it?

[DocFrankenstein]

i think it is

[dpurslow]

I have the minolta flashmeter 5 and love it, you can adjust it and I have my set to give me slightly underexposed images so if needed I can pull back detail - that being said, I generally use the spot meter on the camera and only pull out the handheld meter for studio lights etc.

[photosbylisa]

I have the minolta flashmeter 5 and love it, you can adjust it and I have my set to give me slightly underexposed images so if needed I can pull back detail - that being said, I generally use the spot meter on the camera and only pull out the handheld meter for studio lights etc.

I thought that if you were going to be off on expsoure that you should shoot to the "right" so that if anything it would be slightly overexposed so that you wouldn't get the noise/grain that comes w/ underexpsure.

[dpurslow]

I thought that if you were going to be off on expsoure that you should shoot to the "right" so that if anything it would be slightly overexposed so that you wouldn't get the noise/grain that comes w/ underexpsure.

I come from the world of shooting chrome and slides, if you blow out a highlight its lost forever, - shadow detail is a lot more forgiving, so I always tend to underexpose slightly - I am talking about 1/3 of a stop to 1/2 a stop max.

loose the detail in a pure white wedding dress and you have an upset bride. get her detail with a tiny amount of noise and who cares ?

I dont aim to get noise, I adjust shutter speed, iso etc to make sure its not an issue but me, I would rather be a little under than a little over every time.

[linarms]

I come from the world of shooting chrome and slides, if you blow out a highlight its lost forever, - shadow detail is a lot more forgiving, so I always tend to underexpose slightly - I am talking about 1/3 of a stop to 1/2 a stop max.

loose the detail in a pure white wedding dress and you have an upset bride. get her detail with a tiny amount of noise and who cares ?

I dont aim to get noise, I adjust shutter speed, iso etc to make sure its not an issue but me, I would rather be a little under than a little over every time.

Yeah, blown highlights are unacceptable.

That's why using your histogram is so important though ... if you don't *need* to underexpose to avoid blown highlights, don't ...