A couple of Benro-Gitzo design similarities

[squiress]

While I was searching for reviews on the Gitzo 3540 model variations I came across some photos that were VERY similar to some I had just taken;) during my Benro tripod teardown. These were at NatureScapes.net. One was in an excellent article on tripod maintenance (something that few here seem to expect to have to do to their Gitzo tripods, which seems rather absurd given what you've paid for them). The first shows a leg segment removed from the tube. See my Benro 128 leg segment showing bushings, compression ring and knob, and outside of the color of the components and obvious material differences, these could be the same leg segment (based on appearance). See:

http://www.naturescapes.net/082004/gd0804.htm

Then when I did a search on this site (great stuff and seems like okay pricing) I found these Gitzo 6X ALR replacement bushings:

http://www.naturescapes.net/store/product.php?productid=209&cat=0&page=1

Although a little longer on the leg, and maybe tacked on the edges of the slot in some manner, the white dot of the locator nib is obvious at the top edge of the segment. This is pretty much exactly what I show in my 328n6 teardown. We still have some material differences likely, but I would say that both tripods show the same method for ALR.

No intent to start a raging thread on IP again, but thought these were interesting. I haven't taken apart anyone else's tripods with these same features, so I am not familiar with how other companies achieve similar functionality. Trying to be objective here.:cool:

Stew

[irish1]

How much money in gear do you think those guys have in the water there? $20,000?

[squiress]

How much money in gear do you think those guys have in the water there? $20,000?

At least $8k in cameras, $12k in lenses. Probably $3k in flash, tripods and heads. I'd say more than $20k. It in itself is a neat picture. These guys are really up almost to their armpits in their work:D

Stew

[CyberDyneSystems]

Greg and EJ are both awesome. So is Heather who took the Pic linked above.
Naturescapes is a fabulous resource forum for nature photogs too,. but don't even consider posting any images unless you are a demigod! :lol:

Looks like a 600mm with 2X and a 500mm with 2X, both have 1D mkII's hanging off the back, Wimberlies on 1325CF (or the newer version) wimberly flash brackets, and 580EXs with Better beamers.

[blonde]

but don't even consider posting any images unless you are a demigod! :lol:



agreed. i love seeing their work but at the same time it almost makes me want to sell all my gear :)

[freaking102]

Benro's are copies of Gitzo designs, hence the similarity.

[busterboy]

Naturescapes is a fabulous resource forum for nature photogs too,. but don't even consider posting any images unless you are a demigod! :lol:


I love that quote..:lol:



Awesome pictures of some very dedicated photographers..;)

[JohnJ80]

While I was searching for reviews on the Gitzo 3540 model variations I came across some photos that were VERY similar to some I had just taken;) during my Benro tripod teardown. These were at NatureScapes.net. One was in an excellent article on tripod maintenance (something that few here seem to expect to have to do to their Gitzo tripods, which seems rather absurd given what you've paid for them). The first shows a leg segment removed from the tube. See my Benro 128 leg segment showing bushings, compression ring and knob, and outside of the color of the components and obvious material differences, these could be the same leg segment (based on appearance). See:

http://www.naturescapes.net/082004/gd0804.htm

Then when I did a search on this site (great stuff and seems like okay pricing) I found these Gitzo 6X ALR replacement bushings:

http://www.naturescapes.net/store/product.php?productid=209&cat=0&page=1

Although a little longer on the leg, and maybe tacked on the edges of the slot in some manner, the white dot of the locator nib is obvious at the top edge of the segment. This is pretty much exactly what I show in my 328n6 teardown. We still have some material differences likely, but I would say that both tripods show the same method for ALR.

No intent to start a raging thread on IP again, but thought these were interesting. I haven't taken apart anyone else's tripods with these same features, so I am not familiar with how other companies achieve similar functionality. Trying to be objective here.:cool:

Stew

Very interesting and supports the IP knockoff discussion. looks like a duck, quacks like a duck.....

J.

[squiress]

A couple of Benro articles. The first is fairly straightforward discussion of their 8X CF methodology. English translation leaves alot to be desired, and not sure how much of this is BS, but they quote numbers based on their testing and provide graphs (that are not all that specific and too small, but still not an article from someone that is in a defensive mode concerning any IP issues. The second is a discussion of their n6 dust rejection technology. The third one is an attack on maybe older but obviously Gitzo technology (composite ring on leg in maintenance article linked above. I got the impression that it was cardboard (swelled when wet)). This product description seems to reference that (see paragraph on water resistance). Oh, and it's the Benro version of the Gitzo's Basalt.:-) They load slow.

http://benro.cn/news/tan.html

http://benro.cn/news/fang.html

http://benro.cn/Product/1/pa3.html

Stew

[JohnJ80]

and this isn't knocked off? Even the website pictures look similar to Gitzo's website. Basalt - LOL!

Thanks for posting this. Pretty funny.

dust resistance - having had much experience with sand (I live on a beach). this stuff has almost magical abilities to work its way through any seal. I've had it do that to the seal on two diving masks between the rubber and the glass. The one place I haven't had an issue with it is on my tripod even when in the sand and the water. I do disassemble it when I've had it deep in the water though.... Thailand rubber probably solves that though. :)

J.

[squiress]

and this isn't knocked off? Even the website pictures look similar to Gitzo's website. Basalt - LOL!

Thanks for posting this. Pretty funny.

Thailand rubber probably solves that though. :)

J.

I think that this is all AMAZINGLY flagrant for a company that isn't keeping their products in China under the protection of their national economic policies. They are marketing them to a broad array of Western countries as well as Asia. Either Gitzo can't fight this (ie., they intentionally licensed technology to Benro), or has made a decision not to fight this outside of China (surprising), or is in the prep stage and will fight it. Whichever is it, it will be nice to finally get some 'proof positive' one way or the other sometime down the road, and I would think for Gitzo's sake, sooner would be better.

Stew

[JohnJ80]

They can't (practically) fight them in China because of the rule of law there and the lack of intellectual property protection as a way of doing business. So, they have to wait until they start showing up in some country that does properly protect intellectual property. That means that they most likely need to incur some financial damage and be able to document it (not a simple task). Since these fights are typically very, very expensive, if there isn't sufficient damages compared to total sales - it very well may not be worth it until Benro gets much, much larger and/or if in fact that happens. It isn't worth it if the legal fees are in excess of the actual lost profits - you'd be better off applying the money you would have spent on attorneys to R&D.

Then, with that scenario, you'd have to fight them in each geography under the laws of that country or geography. Too, once in a foreign country, judges and juries are probably a lot more friendly to companies that are native rather than foreign. Probably the only practical place to go after them legally is in Gitzo's home country. That would be pretty small since their international business is no doubt much larger than their domestic business. Basically, going after them legally is a waste of time.

Not to mention, all that takes tons and tons of time and effort as well.

I doubt there is enough money in ALL the tripods sold, being the niche market that they are, to make that worthwhile - having enough profits lost to make paying the legal fees worthwhile.

That is why rip off companies in particular countries can be "AMAZINGLY flagrant" in their ripoffs. Just because no legal action is taken does not make rip offs right. It just means the bad guys get away with it.

Based on all this, it is very likely we will never get an answer one way or the other. Gitzo will continue to ignore Benro not wanting to draw attention to them and Benro will keep denying that they did rip them off. I still have to say if it quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck, and looks like a duck then it probably is a duck. That is probably your best guide. Similarities are striking at almost every level.

J.

[squiress]

That is why rip off companies in particular countries can be "AMAZINGLY flagrant" in their ripoffs. Just because no legal action is taken does not make rip offs right. It just means the bad guys get away with it.

Based on all this, it is very likely we will never get an answer one way or the other. Gitzo will continue to ignore Benro not wanting to draw attention to them and Benro will keep denying that they did rip them off. I still have to say if it quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck, and looks like a duck then it probably is a duck. That is probably your best guide. Similarities are striking at almost every level.

J.

So if you are correct (IP Rip-off) then answer number two seems probable since they have already started marketing them in countries other than China. I guess the real question (outside of the moral issue if Gitzo has not willingly transferred IP to Benro) is who is big enough to make it worthwhile to fight. Nobody comes to mind. Industrial Apocalypse! Benro prices are rising. Quality is improving. Innovative things are occurring (even if Thailand Rubber).
Perhaps that will be the equalzer. When prices get close enough (Benro up, Gitzo down) choice will be back to absolute quality and customer service. Just a thought. Capitalism is self regulating, or should be.

Stew