Paint Shop Pro

[mcneguy]

Interesting little article in the currenet Pop Photography about how Paint Shop Pro may be as good as Photoshop CS. I didn't really believe it until a friend showed me an image she altered in Paint Shop. Has anyone used it? I don't use the full blown PS, I use Elements 2.0 and it has always done what I needed which is basically crop, sharpen, adjust, and print. I have never swapped backgrounds or anything fancy which the article alludes is easier with Paint Shop.

Just wondering what you thought. I should have done a search first but I didnt' think about it until now and I already typed this so....

[CoolToolGuy]

I have Paint Shop Pro 8.1 as well as Paint Shop Album. Of course, I got PS Elements 2.0 with the camera, so I also have that.

I got PSP because Photoshop CS will not run on my OS. :(

PS Elements did everything I asked it to. :)

PSP and the Album program have a more intuitve interface than Elements, and better batch capabilities. I have not exploited much, so I don't know the limits. Red-eye reduction is one or two clicks, and if you don't like it, you can adjust it manually. The 'fix' interface is good, with three images on the screen - as-is, adjusted one way, adjusted the other way. 8)

I may go to Photoshop after I upgrade my PC, but I think I will learn 'digital darkroom' quicker with PSP. :wink:

[Belmondo]

The problem with a question like this is that there are very few people who really have extensive experience with both programs. It's not at all unexpected that anyone offering opinions will be heavily influenced by their own experiences and (therefore) product loyalty. Even magazine writers have those prejudices.

It is a very subjective kind of analysis these guys are trying to make when they write these articles. Which is better? Which is easier? Which has the steepest learning curve? Which is most versatile? Which gives the best results?

The yardstick I use to measure such things is 'what do the pros use?' Clearly PS is the 800-pound gorilla in that category right now, but I also get the sense that other programs are gaining on them (albeit slowly).

Interesting question, but I'm not sure I'd rely too heavily on the conclusions of one author whose agenda (if there is one) is unknown.

Tom

[G3]

If you can get the same end result with two different programs, then I don't think it's a matter of "which program is best?", but rather "which program is best for me?".

I'm sure there are some things that Photoshop CS does better than PaintShopPro, and vice-versa, and some things they are on equal ground.

I think Belmondo is right, some people are going to be prejudiced toward one and others toward the other, and very few people will have equal and high levels of expertise with both.

I haven't used PaintShop since the early releases and found it limiting then. I'm sure it has matured a great deal since then. I use Photoshop CS, that's what I'm familiar and comfortable with and see no reason to look any further (especially since it's already paid for). I know that it is a very powerful and flexible program, but it also has a steep learning curve and is often less than intuitive. It may very well be that if I were starting out now and had to choose between the two, I would end up with PaintShopPro...I don't know. I do know it is much less expensive than PS CS.

Does it have Camera RAW capability? Does it have the same level of 16-bit support? What about layers, layer comps, channels, curves, batch processing, ranking, etc.? Does it have a sister component like Photoshop for HTML support and web-page design (Adobe ImageReady)?

[Jesper]

I've tried PSP 8, but I found that it lacks some features that I find essential: color management is just too basic (you can set the monitor and printer profile, but it only supports sRGB as a working space, no soft proofing and no way to convert from one to another color space) and doesn't support 16-bit editing (which has its advantages, especially when applying curves to get more detail out of dark areas).

I did like the user-friendliness of PSP 8, and it's quite a powerful program, but unfortunately it lacks on the items which I mentioned above and which I find essential for what I want to do.

I've upgraded from PS Elements which I got with my 10D to PS CS.

[evilenglishman]

Interesting little article in the currenet Pop Photography about how Paint Shop Pro may be as good as Photoshop CS. I didn't really believe it until a friend showed me an image she altered in Paint Shop.


I've never heard of "Pop Photography", but it sounds like the kind of magazine that would say something absurd like that.
They probably tell you to eat burgers too as it does the same thing as cooking and eating your own food - only quicker :wink:

[karusel]

Wise words up there. 8)

I might add, that since I've been using Photoshop for like 4-6 years, there is no way in this universe I would be prepared to change over to any other program. But that is not the only reason, it is for a fact, that Photoshop is the most used photo editing program used by pros, so it has to be at least good if not superb, also, it is being constantly updated, not just manicured, the updates are implemented into the program, added on, so there seem to be very small changes, but once you observe it closely you get surprised.

There however exists a possibility that for someone with limited graphic program knowledge may find it easier to work in PSP and he may progress faster until a point where the - as I humbly believe - workflow in PS is easier and offers more options in higher PS know-how levels.

[ShutteringFocus]

I have been using Paint Shop Pro 6 for about a year now...I'm new to this digital stuff...and so far I haven't needed anything else.

But I'm not one to draw a comparison because I dont really know what Im doing...haha :roll: :oops: :roll:

[msvirick]

I have been using Paint Shop Pro 6 for about a year now...I'm new to this digital stuff...and so far I haven't needed anything else.

But I'm not one to draw a comparison because I dont really know what Im doing...haha :roll: :oops: :roll:
I quite agree with above statment. Take a bite once for ever with PS and you will be set for life.
I started out with Paint Shop, but wow once I used PS 6, I was hooked. Since then I have upgraded to PS 8 (CS)

[Cordell]

People, IT DOES NOT MATTER WHICH ONE YOU USE! It's all about which one does what you need it to do.

PSP is great for everything except color management. Corel Photo-Paint is great. Picture Window Pro is great. GIMP is great except for color mangement.

PS is only the standard because it is the most popular because the "pros" use it. Why do "pros" use it, because they have been using it on the MAC forever, and at one time it had all the features they needed. The PC side had weapons that were just as effective and they still do. There are features in other programs that work just as well and features in other programs that work even better than PSs.

Cordell

[Ballen Photo]

I have a friend that has been using Paint Shop Pro for several years now, and loves it. I wont argue with him about this since he gets good results from it. Then again, he's been using it for years, and knows how to make it work. He always upgrades to the latest, and has PSP 8 now.
One thing I can say also, after all his upgrades total, he still hasn't paid near the cost of just Photo Shop CS alone. :shock:
.........Bruce

[Sam North]

Except for RAW, which I'm not so sure about anyway, if you can't do it in the full pro version of Corel PHOTO-PAINT, it can't be done.

It's a “…fully professional program, rivalling Photoshop for features, with powerful tone controls and brushes” (Tom Ang, Digital Photographers Handbook).

The latest version is currently only available in Corel's Graphic Suite 12 - but it’s still cheaper than Photoshop. Or you can buy Corel Essentials 2 which is on a par with Elements (I've used both), plus you get the considerable bonus of CorelDRAW, which I use for website design elements.

Photoshop has a pretty good stranglehold on the pro/am market, but not just on merit I feel. It's evolved that way, largely because in its earlier evolution it was adopted by pros and that in turn has meant ongoing proliferation in magazines. Corel's strong design work ethos through CorelDRAW may have helped to keep PHOTO-PAINT in Photoshop's shadow. I've used Corel's software since the early 90s so I know it delivers.

(Interestingly, I still have a few images on floppy I worked on in 1992 in PHOTO-PAINT and I can still open them. Says something for floppy disks!)

Sam

[robertwgross]

Interesting little article in the currenet Pop Photography about how Paint Shop Pro may be as good as Photoshop CS. I didn't really believe it until a friend showed me an image she altered in Paint Shop.

It may be that one program is better than another. Also, it may be that your friend is simply better skilled at one program more than another.

I learned Corel PhotoPaint years ago and am still stuck there.

---Bob Gross---

[chris.bailey]

For what most of us use them for (crop, re-size, colour balance, curves adjust, sharpen, print) most of the time all of them are overkill :!:

I mailed Adobe and suggested there was a market out there for a cut down version of CS just for us photographers, their reply was that elements is their product for the pr-sumer digital photographer :cry:

But if colour management is an issue then PS it has to be.

[evilenglishman]

PS is only the standard because it is the most popular because the "pros" use it. Why do "pros" use it, because they have been using it on the MAC forever, and at one time it had all the features they needed. The PC side had weapons that were just as effective and they still do. There are features in other programs that work just as well and features in other programs that work even better than PSs.


don't forget that PSP can't handle CMYK properly - this is essential for any professional who is producing artwork/graphics/photos for print.

[ldivinag]

don't forget that PSP can't handle CMYK properly - this is essential for any professional who is producing artwork/graphics/photos for print.

that is the major point that the POPULAR PHOTOGRAPHY article mentioned...

otherwise, PSP 8.x has just about all the tools PS CS has...

[Jesper]

PS is only the standard because it is the most popular because the "pros" use it. Why do "pros" use it, because they have been using it on the MAC forever, and at one time it had all the features they needed. The PC side had weapons that were just as effective and they still do. There are features in other programs that work just as well and features in other programs that work even better than PSs.


don't forget that PSP can't handle CMYK properly - this is essential for any professional who is producing artwork/graphics/photos for print.

Why is CMYK mode essential? because this question is a bit off-topic here, I've asked it in a separate post (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=29878) in the Post Processing and Printing forum...

[openspace]

I have been a user of Paint Shop Pro since version 4, and throughout the years, I have been extraordinarily impressed with the number of features JASC Software has packed in what may be one of the most underpriced pieces of software on the market. Bang for the buck, PSP is a fantastic program, and a huge bargain. Version 8 is no exception.

But as a photographer who demands the best image output available, PSP no longer cuts it for my purposes for four main reasons...

-----

1. PSP does NOT support the AdobeRGB color space. In fact, if you try to open an image with the aRGB profile embedded, PSP generally crashes.

2. PSP does NOT support 16-bit editing. Not that you can blame them. Photoshop didn't get it right until this last version either, and PS costs $400 more.

3. PSP has limited color management.

4. PSP has no native RAW support built in. For many, this won't matter as they use an external RAW file handler (Breezebrowser or Capture 1 dSLR LE). But when you think about it, PSP 8 + Capture 1 dSLR LE is around $250.00. And PSP 8 + the full version of Capture 1 is as expensive as PS CS. Plus since RAW conversion is built in to PS CS, the workflow is streamlined and simplified.

-----

All that being said, I still love PSP. But now I only use it as a vector graphics and web graphics program. And in both of these areas, PSP is phenomenal.

In the end, I will say this - If you are on a limited budget, and are looking for a fantastic graphic design program that also is a high quality, feature rich photo editor, you cannot go wrong with PSP. In my opinion, it is best in it's comsumer class.

But if you want the best photo editing tool out there, save those pennies for PS CS. I guarantee once you get your hands on it, and start up that steep learning curve, you'll never look back.

[Scottes]

Take everything openspace said and pretend I said it too. (Though I seem to remember using it at version 3.)

I think those statements are dead-on.

[evilenglishman]

1. PSP does NOT support the AdobeRGB color space. In fact, if you try to open an image with the aRGB profile embedded, PSP generally crashes.


That is interesting considering it is a very widely accepted colour space. I wonder if its deliberate :wink:

[gcogger]

The issue really is that PSP only supports sRGB - in fact I think it just assumes that all images are sRGB.

[G3]

1. PSP does NOT support the AdobeRGB color space. In fact, if you try to open an image with the aRGB profile embedded, PSP generally crashes.


That is interesting considering it is a very widely accepted colour space. I wonder if its deliberate :wink:

Hmmm AdobeRGB was developed by Adobe.....Adobe makes Photoshop....I'm thinking there's a definite connection. JASC doesn't want to support the competition.

[Cordell]

The fact that PS has AdobeRGB is not important. Yes it is a larger color space than sRGB, but if you talked to a seasoned printmaster you will find out that the color space is converted back to sRGB anyway once it gets to the printer. Has anyone completed any testing to see for themselves the advantage of adobeRGB over sRGB?

I really don't see much of an advantage of using PS RAW converter either. I much prefer C1. From there even the simplest photo-editor can do the rest.

[evilenglishman]

The fact that PS has AdobeRGB is not important. Yes it is a larger color space than sRGB, but if you talked to a seasoned printmaster you will find out that the color space is converted back to sRGB anyway once it gets to the printer. Has anyone completed any testing to see for themselves the advantage of adobeRGB over sRGB?

I really don't see much of an advantage of using PS RAW converter either. I much prefer C1. From there even the simplest photo-editor can do the rest.

perhaps its for better looking images on screen?
Wider gamut=better colour reproduction
This discussion isn't about Photoshop supporting aRGB, its about Paintshop Pro NOT supporting it and why.

2 advantages to using the Photoshop raw converter that spring to mind are;
1. Everything in one program - No need to use a second program.
2. Individual taste - some people used photoshop before RAW came along and they dont want to go out and buy another prog to do it.

Aside from those points Photoshop does everything capture one does and a billion other things Capture 1 can't do.
Why use windows xp when you can use windows 98 or dos?