How to shoot a wedding for amateurs

[Rokkorfan]

Hi all,

If you are interested, on my blog at the moment I am recording a lesson plan on how to shoot a wedding for amateurs. There will eventually be six lessons covering:

1. Before you accept - what to do and say.

2. Basic photographic knowledge required.

3. Equipment - what will I need?

4. Planning the day and dealing with change.

5. Wedding poses 101.

6. Processing, presentation and post-wedding review.

Once it is all finished I will probably make it an article but for now it's just blog entries. You will need to scroll back a few days to get to the start, as we are up to lesson 3 at the moment.

http://www.xanga.com/AntonyHandsPhotographer

I am happy to take suggestions if people are keen to make them.

Best regards,

Antony

[bmd7703]

Just had a quick read through lesson 3 and I just wanted to say I like the attitude it takes. You have have acknowledged that it takes a lot more than just taking a few snaps but you have done it in a positive light and helping people in the right direction. Well done! Looking forward to the next lessons.:)

[mR_CaESaR]

yeah great link.

I'll be definately keeping an eye on this thread over the next week or so as i'm pretty much in the position of trying to become a wedding photographer.

[stoph]

That is some great stuff. I just finished reading chapters 1,2, & 3 and I really enjoyed it. I am the family photographer for my family and expect the situations you described to come up shortly. I really liked the idea of the simple contract of understanding you wrote for friends and family. Also, as a previous post stated, I love your attitude. You aren't talking down to those of us who love photography but just don't have the real world experience of a wedding photographer. Thanks so much for taking the time to write and share your thoughts.

[jjmucker]

looks promising thanks. how do you go back to lesson 1? :oops:

forget i even said that lol. i didnt know the older lessons were on the same page. DOH!

[Mario.]

Wow. Bookmarked. Can't wait to read this. Looks like a great intro guide.

[alinaprax]

Really nice work, both articles and photos I mean! I will have all of my assistants read this. Thank you for such a great resource!
~LDV

[Meaty0]

Great work Antony. You've taken a lot of the mystery out of this subject for an aspiring wedding photographer like me. At the time of posting this, you were up to part 4. I look forward to the rest.

One question; With reference to FILL FLASH. You say that when you finish photographing in the church and come outside, you alter ISO back to 100, change to Av mode (I'm with you so far) and alter your flash exposure compensation to -2 for normal pix in shadow. I see you use a 5D and I have a 20D. Don't both of these cameras have Automatic Flash Reduction (in Av mode) when using flash as fill and using them outdoors in bright light? Why would you need to reduce the flash output further?

[Rokkorfan]

Paul,

Re fill flash the Canon flash system is not as straightforward as many think. The best resource is http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/ but to summarise, you must turn down your FEC once in normal light. At zero FEC the Canon system will try to match ambient equally with flash. You need to override to get acceptable shots in virtually all circumstances.

Having a comprehensive understanding of how ETTL-II works is a must for all professional photogs. Shoot a few shots in normal light levels and see what I mean.

Cheers,

Antony

[scottykm]

Well all I have read so far is lesson 1, more from interest than any burning desire to be a wedding phot,

I really really wish the friend of a friend of mine who was asked to do a wedding had had a chance to read your article, She charged my friend £200 for the day, and provided her with prints and a CD, all taken on 35mm, I dont know the details but have been given the cd by a tearful bride and asked if I can do any pp to them to make better.

I really hope I can with my limited skills!!

heres an example (one of the better shots!)

http://scottykm.smugmug.com/photos/142072968-M.jpg

BTW they look better on screen than they do printed, is that typical of 35mm to CD?

[mmahoney]

Great advice on your site :D

You do a fantastic job of relating the basics of photography to shooting a wedding .. just the right amount of everything. Keep it up,
Mike

[jessiper]

As the photographer you need to determine what your couple is looking for. In my experience the vast majority of couples will say that they want a less formal, more candid approach to the day. NOTE: THIS DOES NOT MEAN THEY ACTUALLY WANT A CANDID WEDDING! If you ask more questions they will normally say that "Oh, yes we do want some posed photographs, they just want them to be natural looking. Oh, and we want the formal family shots, because Mom and Dad will want those", etc.

What most couples want is a degree of traditional coverage, but with shots that don't look posed. Sure they want some candids, but it is a very rare couple that wants a true photojournalistic wedding without some traditional coverage. If they actually do want this, I would very seriously consider not agreeing to shoot the wedding. Why? After all, you are probably thinking that it is easier to successfully shoot a candid, photojournalistic style wedding than a traditional one right? Well if you are thinking this, sorry, but you are quite wrong. - taken from the link the OP provided

That is so very true (both points)! They (almost) always think that's what they want, but they really don't.

[Yella Fella]

thats a pretty comprehensive read, will read more when i get some time :)

hope it help many newbies/amateurs to understand

[Meaty0]

Paul,

Re fill flash the Canon flash system is not as straightforward as many think. The best resource is http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/ but to summarise, you must turn down your FEC once in normal light. At zero FEC the Canon system will try to match ambient equally with flash. You need to override to get acceptable shots in virtually all circumstances.

Having a comprehensive understanding of how ETTL-II works is a must for all professional photogs. Shoot a few shots in normal light levels and see what I mean.

Cheers,

Antony

Thanks Antony for at least attempting to answer the question. It gets a bit more confusing when you read the article you have a link to. Here's a quote from that article:

Auto fill reduction. Also called “automatic reduction of flash output” in some Canon documentation. Canon EOS cameras automatically use regular flash exposure with no compensation when ambient light levels are low - 10 EV (http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/index2.html#ev) or lower. However, when ambient light levels are brighter - 13 EV or higher - the camera will switch to fill flash mode and reduce the flash unit’s output level. It does so in TTL mode by dropping flash output by 1.5 stops. Between 10 and 13 EV the camera will smoothly lower the flash unit’s output by half a stop for each EV.


E-TTL flash works in a similar fashion, though apparently flash output will be lowered by as many as 2 stops when ambient lighting is bright. Canon have not, however, divulged their secret E-TTL fill reduction algorithm, so it’s total guesswork exactly how it works. Apparently, though, the algorithm compares the brightness level of each zone both before and after the preflash, in part to compensate for highly reflective areas.
Some mid to high end EOS cameras allow you to disable this auto fill reduction by means of a custom function. See the section on flash exposure compensation (http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/index3.html#fec) for details. Note that any flash compensation you may apply manually is in addition to this auto fill flash reduction, unless of course you’ve disabled it via a custom function.
I'm not sure if you were aware of this. It seems that Canon EOS cameras already reduce the FEC. It doesn't say what mode you have to be in, but I would assume it's Av. And it would seem that any further FEC you make, is IN ADDITION to what the camera already makes. Confusing isn't it?
I guess it just comes down to practicing first to see what settings work, but you would think Canon could make flash a bit easier and more predictable.

[Rokkorfan]

Paul, I was aware of this, I just don't think it works particularly well, or maybe I simply prefer a lower level of fill. Both of my cameras have ETTL-II, and both need to be dialed in for negative FEC when shooting in normal light. Shooting at zero FEC produces artificially bright results for fill.

Like you said, and I have tried to reinforce in the series, it is all about knowing your equipment and how it will react in any circumstance.

Cheers and thanks for the comments,

Antony

[Meaty0]

Paul, I was aware of this, I just don't think it works particularly well, or maybe I simply prefer a lower level of fill. Both of my cameras have ETTL-II, and both need to be dialed in for negative FEC when shooting in normal light. Shooting at zero FEC produces artificially bright results for fill.

Like you said, and I have tried to reinforce in the series, it is all about knowing your equipment and how it will react in any circumstance.

Cheers and thanks for the comments,

Antony

Hey Antony!

I took your advice and went outside, stood my daughter in afternoon light in the shade of a tree. I set the 20D (with a 50mm f/1.4) on Av mode, ISO 100, and aperture of f/2.8. With the 580ex on "0" FEC, I shot 3 images and bracketed the exposure +/- 2/3rd stop. Just as you predicted...ALL three had flat, boring results. The nice shadows were washed out instead of softened. (For some reason...worse in the 2/3rd stop underexposed image..go figure!). When I dialed in just under -2 FEC on the flash (-1 2/3), they looked just about right. Even at -1 FEC, they were still overdone.

I whipped on the 85mm f/1.4 and even tight in close-ups, they still looked wrong at FEC "0".

So much for Canon's Automatic Fill Reduction. I don't know why they bother.

I also found out, you need the "High Speed Synch" function activated on the flash.:D

I can hardly wait to try out the flash in full-sun, through to low evening light, at our camera club's annual outdoor model shoot next week-end. I'll study your article and link again before I go.:D

Thanks

[davidgr]

I haven't done this for awhile, so I might have it a bit off, but...
When you have the subject under a tree (or shade), take an ambient meter reading out in the daylight (out from under the shade). Set the flash to the same f/stop and add (I think) 2/3rd's of a stop EC on the camera.

On edit...
Ooops, that should be -2/3rd's a stop, not +2/3rd's.

[Rokkorfan]

I haven't done this for awhile, so I might have it a bit off, but...
When you have the subject under a tree (or shade), take an ambient meter reading out in the daylight (out from under the shade). Set the flash to the same f/stop and add (I think) 2/3rd's of a stop EC on the camera.

Thanks David, but I don't think that this is really the best way to tackle this with modern cameras. Shooting with the flash in manual mode (as opposed to the camera) in such a fluid situation is probably not optimal. By simply leaving the camera in AV mode (in normal light) and using negative FEC you can achieve good results consistently.

[dlcx]

Awesome job Antony!
Loving it... look forward to more :)

[jjmucker]

i have a quick question guys. i will be shooting a wedding over in spain come sep for a friend (cant wait).
im predicting that the weather will be quite sunny, when shooting outside with flash im basically just better off switching to AV dial in what settings i want (shutter,apeture) and simply use some -FEC?. is this the general rule?

[Rokkorfan]

i have a quick question guys. i will be shooting a wedding over in spain come sep for a friend (cant wait).
im predicting that the weather will be quite sunny, when shooting outside with flash im basically just better off switching to AV dial in what settings i want (shutter,apeture) and simply use some -FEC?. is this the general rule?

If you are shooting in full sun you normally need to add at least +1 to overpower the full sun. If in shade I normally shoot -1.5 to -2 FEC.

If you refer to the earlier lessons in this series I discuss the use of fill flash.

[Jettin]

Antony, thanks so much for taking the time to make this, its been bookmarked for safe keeping.

Regards
Jeff

[davidgr]

Thanks David, but I don't think that this is really the best way to tackle this with modern cameras. Shooting with the flash in manual mode (as opposed to the camera) in such a fluid situation is probably not optimal. By simply leaving the camera in AV mode (in normal light) and using negative FEC you can achieve good results consistently.
I offered it as a possible alternative that works for me. If you shoot differently, that's fine, but don't knock it until you've tried it. And today's "modern cameras" may be smarter than cameras of the past, but auto mode and ettl are not perfect all of the time. IMO ambient light meter readings are more consistent and reliable than reflective readings you'll get in-camera. Digital has made people lazy compared to the days of film when bracketing and mutiple exposures of the same subject actually cost money. With the time you spend taking multiple shots and bracketing, you could have got it right the first time with good technique that would probably take just as much time if not less.

[acorean]

Wow. Bookmarked.

Ditto! Great reference. This is just the type of literature that a beginner needs. It is intuitive, general enough to allow creativity, gives enough direction yet is not vague. Great Job!!!

[jjmucker]

can anyone recommend some good books or ebooks that could get would be wedding photographers started. something along the lines of the advice on the blog but goes into more detail etc.

[Rokkorfan]

I offered it as a possible alternative that works for me. If you shoot differently, that's fine, but don't knock it until you've tried it. And today's "modern cameras" may be smarter than cameras of the past, but auto mode and ettl are not perfect all of the time. IMO ambient light meter readings are more consistent and reliable than reflective readings you'll get in-camera. Digital has made people lazy compared to the days of film when bracketing and mutiple exposures of the same subject actually cost money. With the time you spend taking multiple shots and bracketing, you could have got it right the first time with good technique that would probably take just as much time if not less.

David,

If it works for you great, however this series is targeted at amateur photographers seeking advice to shoot a first wedding. I would bet that less than 1% of those photographers have a handheld incident meter, and so this option is really unavailable for them.

That said, I don't understand how your method will work. After all, most modern flash units don't have aperture settings any more, as they don't have auto flash capability. I think the only current Canon shoe mounted flash with auto capability is the new 580EX II, which is yet to be released. As well as that, setting the flash for full sun and then opening up your lens for a correct exposure in shade will simply result in it overexposing the flash by three stops.

For accurate ambient exposures the use of an incident meter will normally generate great results, but not for flash where you are using HSS (ie. anytime in bright light where your shutter speed exceeds the camera's sync speed) as most flashmeters can't meter HSS flash. Since the adoption of digital by most pros their incident meters no longer get used due to the immediate feedback provided by digital. I have a Minolta Flashmeter VI, the last and most advanced Minolta meter made. I have used it once in the last two years, and that was just for fun.

The only people I know who regularly use meters these days use them for setting up studio flash units.

I am glad that this system seems to work for you, for beginners I think helping them understand the basics of using FEC will be less complicated and more successful.

Best regards,

Antony

[wseed]

Looks to be a great guide Antony, I've bookmarked to finish reading later.

[davidgr]

Anthony,

You’re right, my techniques might be a bit over the top for an amateur, but it does work.

You don’t need a flash with aperture settings. All you need is a flash that can be set to a manual mode, and you need to know exactly what the light output is on manual at various distances and power settings (if the flash has them). Think guide numbers here.

I have a “modern” flash, a Quantum T5D, that has auto, e-ttl and manual modes along with power settings from full to 1/64. Okay, maybe not an “amateur flash. I even have some old Sunpak 522’s that can do the same thing, and the newer “modern” 555’s can do the same.

Even on a bright sunny day, using the “sunny 16” rule, you could get this technique to work by using ISO 100, shutter speed of 1/200 (100 +2/3 stop roughly) and f/16. But it will also depend on how powerful your flash is and the flash to subject distance as to whether or not this would even work in the first place. Again, probably above amateur level here.

And I’m sorry, but “beginners” have no business shooting a wedding on their own, unless of course poor cousin Sue can’t afford a real photographer, even though she spent hundreds on that pretty white dress. Some pictures are better than none. But you should not be trying to teach a beginner the basics of photography in your series. They should already know how their camera and flash will work in every setting, and what every function does. If they don’t, they don’t belong at a wedding. Your series should be about what you’d need for gear and what to expect at a wedding for those that have never shot one, not about basic photography and camera operation.

You want to talk about basics? I’m old school, where hand held meters were more reliable than what was in the camera, where there was no auto focus, auto exposure or e-ttl. Now that’s basics! It really helps to know how things work and why. Technology has made us lazy and ignorant.

[Rokkorfan]

And I’m sorry, but “beginners” have no business shooting a wedding on their own, unless of course poor cousin Sue can’t afford a real photographer, even though she spent hundreds on that pretty white dress. Some pictures are better than none. But you should not be trying to teach a beginner the basics of photography in your series. They should already know how their camera and flash will work in every setting, and what every function does. If they don’t, they don’t belong at a wedding. Your series should be about what you’d need for gear and what to expect at a wedding for those that have never shot one, not about basic photography and camera operation.

Refer Lesson 2:

http://www.xanga.com/AntonyHandsPhotographer/581543900/how-to-shoot-a-wedding---lesson-2.html

Oh, and yes, I should have said "Amateurs" not "beginners" in my reply. My mistake.

[Rokkorfan]

This is all really beside the point though David - You are right, you can use manual control, yes I agree, beginners shouldn't be the sole photographers at weddings. See, we agree. :)

[davidgr]

Anthony,
Sorry for getting off-track here, and sorry I hadn't got to lesson 2 yet. :) I just can't seem to find the time to read long articles, even though I'm sure they'll be good.

[Meaty0]

And I’m sorry, but “beginners” have no business shooting a wedding on their own, unless of course poor cousin Sue can’t afford a real photographer, even though she spent hundreds on that pretty white dress. Some pictures are better than none. But you should not be trying to teach a beginner the basics of photography in your series. They should already know how their camera and flash will work in every setting, and what every function does. If they don’t, they don’t belong at a wedding. Your series should be about what you’d need for gear and what to expect at a wedding for those that have never shot one, not about basic photography and camera operation.

You want to talk about basics? I’m old school, where hand held meters were more reliable than what was in the camera, where there was no auto focus, auto exposure or e-ttl. Now that’s basics! It really helps to know how things work and why. Technology has made us lazy and ignorant.

Well then...I bow to your obvious superior knowledge. So why don't you write a tutorial on it yourself and share some of that knowledge with us "beginners"? I would certainly welcome any help.

[davidgr]

Paul,

Chill out dude! :rolleyes:

First, I don't have time to write a tutorial. Besides, it's already been done. Been to the bookstore lately?
Second, I never claimed to have superior knowledge.
Finally, if you don't like what I said about beginners, that's fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. You have yours and I have mine.

[davidgr]

Whatever!