D10 vs D60

[jalafer]

I have a D300 and I plan to upgrade to a more profesional camera body. I want to buy a second hand D10 or a D60. The price diference is very high, D10 are for 1000€ and D60 for 500€.
What are the improvementes of the D10 compaing to the D60.
Quality building
Raw images
Noise/Signal
I shoot mostly Raw, so in-camera processing is not important.

[evilenglishman]

i love my D60 and have often thought of upgrading (the shop i got it from will give me a new 10D for less than half price with my old camera in exchange).

I would like some good reasons to upgrade too :wink:

[stuartf287]

I have both -- my wife generally uses the 10D and I use the D60 when we are out shooting together. Otherwise I carry both in my bag. I can't tell the difference between the pictures taken with the two cameras. The 10D seems to focus better in low light, but it still isn't great in those conditions. If I had only the D60 I'd be obsessed with upgrading, but after using both cameras I don't think the upgrade would be worth $500 US. I'd rather put that money towards another lens, or a better lens. On the other hand, they are both wonderful cameras and no one should ever regret having bought a 10D. As people say, just my $.02.

[evilenglishman]

...The 10D seems to focus better in low light...


That seems to be the most used argument to upgrade, as well as the 7 point AF as opposed to the 3 point D60. Although I only use the centre point anyway.

Tell me, is it a VERY noticable difference?

[chris.bailey]

I have both and the major differences are

1) 10D has slightly better focussing but it is slight.

2) 10D turns on faster

3) 10D handles noise better at higher ISO's.

Pics printed at 8 x 10 from either are indistinguishable so I would take the D60 and use the $500 for some lenses a 17-40L maybe :wink:

[stuartf287]

Tell me, is it a VERY noticable difference?

Absolutely not (IMHO). The low-light focusing difference between the 2 cameras I use is hardly noticeable at all -- unless you are specifically looking for it. I also use only the center focussing area.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Doesn't the 10D have a quicker burst rate?

Also of course the 10D has the magnesium body as opposed to the plastic.. (hardly a big concern)

Remeber,. most of us 10D owners jumped on the badwagon specifically because they were $700.00 CHEAPER than the D60 had been!

The refinements to the 10D were icing.

I have not used "three point" AF but 7 Point AF is just six unused AF points as opposed to two :roll:

The "multi af point" thing does not serve a lot of use untill you get a 1 body with 45 AF points,. in which case the density of those points is close enough that they will actually track a moving subject AMAZINGLY well,. after a year with the 10D I can safely say that 7 AF points does this MAYBE 50% of the time... :roll:

[evilenglishman]

are you sure its plastic? mine feels like metal

[defordphoto]

I have both and the major differences are

1) 10D has slightly better focussing but it is slight.


I also have both and the 10D smokes the D60 when it comes to low-light focusing.

And yes EE, the D60 is a plastic body. The 10D is partially magnesium.

[photography By Evangelos]

Yes the D60 is a plastic body. The 10D's A/F performance is just a bit better over the D60 in low light that is it. Not worth the upgrade if you ask me. I would wait, as I am very sure a new model is on the way. Trust me it is on the way.



Angelo 8)

[paul162brown]

I have an old D30 (my first Dslr) which I got for a rock bottom price, which is very similar to the D60 is almost every way (poor-ish low light AF, 3 point AF etc etc) except for it only has half the pixels, although at the moment printing up to 10 x 8 suits anyway. I will wait for everyone else to pay the full prices for 10Ds and its replacements etc and when all those owners upgrade and 10Ds are really cheap secondhand, I will swoop!

My advice is to wait a while for the 10D replacement, then watch everyone drop their 10Ds in the chase for the 10D Mk11, and then watch the D60s drop even further (mine will be worth peanuts by then!). :wink: :D

[rickyd]

For landscape shots the difference is slight. I have both cameras and still use my D60 for macrophotography, but if you shoot sports- then the 10D is a huge improvement in the auto focusing department. good luck.
rickyd

[MarkH]

7 point AF? My 10D never knows what I'm taking the picture of, the camera is not the item that does composition, the photographer does that! I tried the 7 point thing a couple of times, but the camera kept choosing the wrong thing to focus on. I always use centre point and the camera rarely focuses on the wrong thing (only happens when the subject is really small and only makes up less then half of what the centre focus point covers).

Low light AF - If you shoot reasonably often in low light then this could be an important consideration. I have found that in any light where I can shoot hand held (with IS) without a flash, there is enough light to auto focus. I can easily AF by the light of a 40W light bulb.

Metal body - nice but won't improve the quality of the photos.


My opinion:
The 10D is the newer better camera and if the improvements make a big difference to you then that is the best choice. However the D60 is available 2nd hand at a much better price at the moment, maybe you would be better off with a D60 now and the replacement to the 10D in a year or two.

[Saturn]

Hello:

We've shot with the D60 for about 1.5 years now. We've lately been renting the 10D, using the D60 as a backup for critical jobs. We only shoot raw and have found that the 10D files are noticeably cleaner than the D60 files, especially in the lower mid-tones to shadows. The files are so much cleaner, that they appear to need less sharpening than the D60 files. And that's at 100 asa. We don't even consider using the D60 above maybe 200 asa.

Saturn.

[ShutteringFocus]

I'm taking the cleanup theory too...

I got a D30 for practicaly nothing compared to what it cost originaly. In a year or two I might pick up a 10D when the Mark II or canon's next hot cake replaces it.

Sure, I might be a little behind in the race...but it sure is a heck of a lot cheaper!

haha :lol:

[jalafer]

Thank you all for your informations. but the decision is not clear for me yet.
3 points focus is not a matter for me, because I also prefer to focus with the central point.
Focus ability in low light shouldn't be critical for me as well.
My only concern is that "Saturn" explains about the noise/signal. It seems that changing from the D300 to the D60, I would be loosing some quality in my pictures in any ISO over 100. Is that correct ?
For the rest of the posts it was quite clear that the right decision for a second hand camera is to buy now the D60 and wait for the D10 MarkII

[nosquare2003]

See:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos10d/page18.asp

[evilenglishman]

looks quite negligible until ISO 800 but for me this is another thing i dont use. I'm always on 100 and occasionaly go to 200. I think ive used 400 2-3 times since ive had the camera.

From the info I've read here I'll keep my D60 :D

[lensecap]

An st-e3 flash transmitter fixes the low light fcus problem so NO i can not see the need for the 10d. I would prsonaly rathr have two d30s than one higher res camera. hat is why I am selling my d60 and going back to a d30. I just don't need that big a file. I have spent closeto £4000.00 in the last two years on d30 and d60, by buying at the WRONG time. just think, I could buy four d30s at todays price. Ease into this untill you realy undersand the differences in the cameras. They are all good machines, just diferent machines for different purposses.

[Andy_T]

What are the improvementes of the D10 compaing to the D60.
Quality building
Raw images
Noise/Signal
I shoot mostly Raw, so in-camera processing is not important.

Please bear in mind that the picture quality of the 10D and the 300D are identic. (same sensor, same signal processor functions)

- There should be no difference in RAW images between 10D and 300D (=no improvement)
- According to some posts here, Noise/signal of the D60 should be worse than 10D - so it's also worse than 300D!

Disclaimer: I don't own any of the cameras mentioned, all I think I know I read on this forum :)
So if I'm terribly wrong, somebody please correct me!

Best regards,
Andy

[scottbergerphoto]

What are the improvementes of the D10 compaing to the D60.
Quality building
Raw images
Noise/Signal
I shoot mostly Raw, so in-camera processing is not important.

Please bear in mind that the picture quality of the 10D and the 300D are identic. (same sensor, same signal processor functions)

- There should be no difference in RAW images between 10D and 300D (=no improvement)
- According to some posts here, Noise/signal of the D60 should be worse than 10D - so it's also worse than 300D!

Disclaimer: I don't own any of the cameras mentioned, all I think I know I read on this forum :)
So if I'm terribly wrong, somebody please correct me!

Best regards,
Andy
Someone posted a picture a while back of the insides of the 10D and 300D. The 10D uses three separate circuit boards to do what the 300D does in one. So the elctronics are not the same.
Scott

[defordphoto]

Not to mention that the thread does not even concern the Drebel...

The D60 produces a fine photograph. Some even prefer its color rendition over the 10D because it's more saturated. I still have mine after getting the 10D and will still have it after getting the new Mark II. It's a great camera.

Hmmm...how much you willing to pay for a D60? ;)

[Andy_T]

Someone posted a picture a while back of the insides of the 10D and 300D. The 10D uses three separate circuit boards to do what the 300D does in one. So the elctronics are not the same.
Scott

You're absolutely right, and I remember that post. (That's why I wrote 'Same signal processor functions').

To my memory, the speculation was that the new board does about the same that the old 3 boards had done (at least image quality wise, of course FPS are different) and that the 3 boards had been put together mainly to save costs on production. But that is *speculation*.

Scott - is there some information that substantiates the **assumption** (=speculation) "The 10D takes better pictures than the 300D"? That would really be a *major* point (IMHO) differing the two cameras and would be very intersting for me!.

Best regards,
Andy

PS: Of course, if you read one of the myriad of threads comparing the two cameras, what you will get is
- better build
- faster (more FPS)
- more flexibility (custom functions, FEC, mirror lockup etc.)
- a nicer 'feel' (not to be underestimated, IMHO).

[Andy_T]

Not to mention that the thread does not even concern the Drebel...



He mentioned that he wants to upgrade from the D300.
I assume he means the 300D.

So Jalafer should compare what he wants to get also to what he has at the moment. Picture quality wise, I assume he will not get more out of the 10D (and less out of the D60).

But that's just my guesstimate :-)

Best regards,
Andy

[Saturn]

Hello:

Interesting replies so far! It was discussed that some prefer the D60's color (more saturated) than the 10D. When we did initial testing (profiling) of our then-new D60 18 months ago, we backed way off on the color saturation because we found the excessive reds to be very problematic in all of our images. The oversaturation would result in banding in the deeper mid-tones and shadows.

If you're shooting raw with any of these cameras, which we started doing shortly after our initial tests, the in-camera settings don't mean much as you will tweak all files in your conversions.

Between the D60, the 300D and the 10D, I would go for a used (or new) 10D. The slightly higher price of this body is well worth the cleaner files, better menu and stronger body.

Thanks!

[VonClev]

Jalafer and Lensecap:

I'll second the advice above recommending you check out the dpreview review - its awesome, and is the reason I upgraded to a 10D from a D60.

Lensecap - two D30's, hmmm...well if finances are the issue, I totally understand; however, the problem with the 3 megapixels of the D30 is that you are really limited with what you can do with cropping and enlargements - something I do a fair amount of....

I now use my 10D with my L glass, and keep the D60 around with the 28-135 IS out and ready for spur of the moment shots (kept in full auto mode so the wife can use it.

Chuck

[GenEOS]

I have refrained from this topic until I actually got my hands on a 10D to speak.

I shot a 10D at the NHRA Nationals this past weekend and the performace of it vs. my D60 was amazing. I did not think there was that much of a difference, but there is. Focusing is by far better and faster than the D60.

I was able to lock on to a T/F car at start and get 3 sharp images as the car came at me, the camera kept focus 8 out of 10 times on the third frame.

On the low light nightime qualifying rounds, it blew the D60 away, hands down.

I like them both, but the 10D is a little better in performace, as it should be.

If they came out with a 10D that shot 5 FPS, I would dump my 1DMKII order...

[Andy_T]

If they came out with a 10D that shot 5 FPS, I would dump my 1DMKII order...

Maybe you should have waited for that 10DII that will certainly be released soon :)

Best regards,
Andy

[jalafer]

After checking the comparison in dpreview the answer is clear, the D10 produces images with lower noise than the D60, so it is probably worth to pay the extra money to go from the D300 to the D10 instead of the D60.
Maybe not so clear if you already have the D60 and want to ugrade to D10, but this is not my case.
Thank all of you for so much info.

[defordphoto]

After checking the comparison in dpreview the answer is clear, the D10 produces images with lower noise than the D60, so it is probably worth to pay the extra money to go from the D300 to the D10 instead of the D60.
Maybe not so clear if you already have the D60 and want to ugrade to D10, but this is not my case.
Thank all of you for so much info.

Now just log into you memory banks that it's actually a 10D and not a D10. Canon did the letter-swap on the 10D.

[Andy_T]

After checking the comparison in dpreview the answer is clear, the D10 produces images with lower noise than the D60, so it is probably worth to pay the extra money to go from the D300 to the D10 instead of the D60.

Just to get that straight - you are aware of the following:
- The 10D will get you the exact same image quality as the 300D (no improvement)
- The D60 will give you worse performance than what you have at the moment.

All that said, the difference is in build quality, flexibility and FPS.

Best regards,
Andy

[jalafer]

I know image quality will be the same with the 10D, but now after purchaising the 70-200 f4L and the 17-40 f4L and after playing in the shop with the 10D, I found it feels really profesionally build and my D300 feels much like a toy.
This is the main reason for me to change.

In the other hand, how do you include other comments in your posts ?

For your info, price for the 17-40 in fotobbom in Spain 618,8€
Price for the 70-200 in Irudi Foto in Spain 650€

[forrest64]

There seems to be a lot of complaints about the 10D's 7 point AF since it doesn't seem to pick the subject that was intended. May I remind everyone that the actual point of focus can be manually set and I have found this feature useful especially when doing still lifes. Therefore 7 points (10D) is better than 3 points.


Mark

[GenEOS]

I found rear button focus with the Al Servo ? focusing mode to be even more useful and accurate than the D60. That and swapping focus points to suit my subject matter, kept it in focus 95% of the time.

[Andy_T]

In the other hand, how do you include other comments in your posts ?

either use the 'quote' button or write (quote="jalafer") TEST... (/quote)

Replace the round brackets with square brackets ( [ ] )

Best regards,
Andy

[jgbryan021900]

I had a 10D when it first came out and then switched back to the D60,
I just liked the way the photos came out of the D60 better, of course thats when there was alot of talk about the 10d having soft photos. Just got a 1d now so...taking it on a shoot Thursday...the focusing is incredably fast..