Pricing help

[jimtfoto]

Need some input from you guys on this dilemma ...
An acquaintance (he's also a co-worker of my wife's) wants us to shoot a family portrait. There are 11 family members but, due to family squabbling, we have to shoot in two sessions - nine people in one, two in the other. The guy wants us to then Photoshop the two into the nine-shot. That's not my problem.
It's this ... what to charge the guy!
We have sold many pictures to newspapers and are paid the paper's going rate for freelance pix. Most of the time for friends who have asked for prints of our pix, we charge them only a minimal fee to cover printing costs (not factoring in travel time, setup, camera usage, etc., etc.).
Factors I'm now looking at for this job include:
- Time (travel and set-up) for two shoots
- Equipment usage
- Photoshop work
- Since the "family portrait" will include 11 people, I'm thinking we'll have to use 13 x 19 paper for a good 11x17. We use an Epson 2200 printer. At that size we'll use archival matte paper. And he wants 11 copies. So add in not only the cost of the paper, but the ink as well.

Any guidance would be appreciated ..
thanks,
jim

[IndyJeff]

Jim I can't believe that because of a family squabble they want you to shoot twice and then shop two people into the shot. I would do it for $500 with the photoshop, plus print cost and $250 if it is done in one shot, plus print costs.

Personally tho I would just politely decline the offer or say "if your family can't get along for one hour to shoot a family portrait, I don't want to be involved." I see nothing but a headache and a big hassle coming from this deal. Good luck


Edit:
Two years ago my wifes family got a big family portrait done for her parents 50th anniversary925 people). We had to go to the photographers studio, then outside in the back and get the shot done. 3/4 hour waiting for shooter to show and get setup, 1/2 for the shoot. Cost $300 and that was with no prints, they could be ordered but that was extra cost.
The guy did a terrible job too, gaps in between people, the shot was very loose and some parents are seperated from thier kids. When we did see the proofs, my wife even said I could have done a better job. The inlaws all thought the pictures were "wonderful". More proof that the average person wouldn't know a good shot from junk.

[G3]

I'm with Jeff on this one...

But, if you want to do it, here's how to figure it:

Portrait sitting $250.00. This covers your time, talent and wear and tear on your equipment, plus film if you are shooting film (I always do formal portraits with Medium Format film cameras).

For travel, figure what want to charge for hourly labor and then make a 1 hour minimum. So, if you want $50.00 per hour, then your minimum is $50.00. Even if you only have to drive 15 minutes across town. That way, you are covered for gas and wear and tear on your vehicle.

Prints. I include an 8x10 and 2 5x7's for the $250.00 sitting fee. If they want more than that, it's $30.00 for an 8x10 and $15.00 for a 5x7. I send mine out to a pro lab. It doesn't really matter what it costs you to make the print. You keep the original images and they have to pay your rates for reprints or additional prints. If I print my own digital images, the prices are the same.

If they require you do that silly drill of adding 2 more people into the shot because they can't tolerate each other for an hour, I'd charge them an extra $250.00 at least for that service. It's not going to be as easy as it sounds.

If they agreed to do it all in one session, I'd cut them a break on the cost of the prints.

People are wierd sometimes, aren't they?

[IndyJeff]

If they require you do that silly drill of adding 2 more people into the shot because they can't tolerate each other for an hour, I'd charge them an extra $250.00 at least for that service. It's not going to be as easy as it sounds.


My point exactly. Jim try taking a shot of your wife, or somebody, then another in the same location of another person. Now add one to the other photo and run a print. Time yourself and see how easy it is and look at the results. Roberts Camera has digital manipulating, or they used to and this was a couple of years ago they charged $50 an hour.

[PhotosGuy]

I agree with IndyJeff,
Personally tho I would just politely decline the offer or say "if your family can't get along for one hour to shoot a family portrait, I don't want to be involved." I see nothing but a headache and a big hassle coming from this deal. Good luck

My instinct, finely honed from working with some equally "interesting" people is to take my highest day rate & then triple it in the hopes that they will go somewhere else.
On the other hand, you'll "learn a lot" on this job! (Trust me!)
:lol:

[IndyJeff]

My instinct, finely honed from working with some equally "interesting" people is to take my highest day rate & then triple it in the hopes that they will go somewhere else.

Photosguy, I strongly disagree with this method of declining a job, I'll tell you why. Lets say you think the job is worth $500 and you triple it to $1500, how do you know they people won't just say ok?
In my bathtub resurfacing business, I have been burned by this method at least twice. Once the tub was so pitted I didn't want anything to do with it but, I gave the lady a price of $700, a little more than doubled. She asked when I could do it!!! DAMN. I spent 8 hours just filling and sanding the damage on that tub, came back the next day and spent 4 hours finishing it up. 3 times the amount it normally took, got 2 1/2 times the pay.
The other time the lady was a bitch, plain and simple. I just knew it would be a problem. Well I doubled the price knowing that she would get someone a little cheaper. Wrong, she wanted me to do it because I had come highly recommended. Did it, and she went over it and found dust and orange peel. Thing was the dust would wipe off in 30 days as it was on the surface and not in it. The orange peel was still smooth and couldn't be felt but when she put her flashlight, a strong one at that, in the tub you could see it if you were at the right angle. She wanted the whole tub resprayed. I told her I could wetsand and polish it out but she wanted the whole thing resprayed. I refused and told her I would fix it but do it my way unless she wanted to pay the $300 to have it resprayed. Finally after speaking with her husband, I did it my way. When I got there she opened the door and the only words she said was, "You know where the bathroom is" and walked away.
Since then if I get a bad feeling about a job, be it photography or refinishing, I simply say I am not interested in doing the job.

NEVER BE AFRAID TO LISTEN TO YOUR LITTLE VOICE. It is seldfom wrong.

[PhotosGuy]

NEVER BE AFRAID TO LISTEN TO YOUR LITTLE VOICE. It is seldom wrong.

I totally agree with that!
On the other hand, when I was working full time, my day rate was $650, & if they wanted to pay triple that just for shooting the job, then I was willing to put up with the added agravation. It's mandatory to spell out everything in the contract in infinite detail to CYA.
I much prefered it when an ad guy would call up & say, "Here's a PO#. Shoot this one like the last one".
:lol:

[jimtfoto]

Thanks to all for the feedback ... I'll digest it all, and let you know what happens.

cheers,
jim

[Bruce Hamilton]

...but when she put her flashlight, a strong one at that, in the tub you could see it if you were at the right angle...

People who nitpick like that really pi** me off! :evil:
All she was looking for was to get the job free.

[Conk]

Personally I would be charging for 2 sessions plus the processing. As far as photoshop work goes I charge $40.00 Cdn an hour minimum 1 hour. An acquaintance of mine charges $75.00 U.S. an hour.
The way I see it is that if they want to pay the price, I'll do what ever they want. It all comes down to the dollar.
My freind that works professionally ot of Houston told me when I started was to aim high with the pricing. It is better to do 1 job at $1500.00 than 3 at $500.00.

[jimtfoto]

Here's an update ... the guy has agreed to a minimum $1,000 for the two shoots, plus Photoshop time and prints .... he's added another wrinkle in that he now wants smaller groups within the large group ... so I'm back to the calculator ... of course, his agreement thus far is only verbal .... anyone know of a site where I can download a basic photography contract form???
jim

[PhotosGuy]

Google some variation of:
contract photography OR photographer's
for 700,000+ links

Any contract found should be checked by a local lawyer before you trust it. And remember, you can be sued for anything, anytime, anywhere. You don't even have to be in the wrong.