Anybody want to help me out? Suggestions,Advice?

[foley]

It seems like nobody looks in the other forums So I thought I'd post this over here.
Sorry for the double post :?

Ok, I have MANY,MANY questions?
Fill free to help me out
I photo mainly rock concerts big arenas to very small bars shows.

Of course, at the big arena shows most of the time nobody can use a flash and the lightning is a lot better too.

My problem is small bars and VERY long lightning clubs.

I was wondering what some of you would suggest for the situations I have?

I'm trying to get more of a natural look of the lights and stage and skin tones when I shoot in these places.

Here's the Equipment I am currently using for small clubs:


Canon EOS Digital Rebel
TAMRON 28-75MM F/2.8 XR Di Canon Lens
Canon EF 50mm F/1.4
CANON 550EX SPEEDLITE FLASH 550 EX


I usually switch back and forth between to 28-75mm and the 50mm fixed lens.


I just recently bought a CANON Off-Camera Shoe Cord 2 for the EOS Speedlite. To try some experiment some ideas with to make the lightning look better (a lot more natural like I'm seeing it live)?

Which one of these would you suggest trying first to diffuse the flash and try to get the look I'm looking for?


STO-FEN-GREEN AND GOLD OMNI
STO-FEN-Omni-Bounce
STO-FEN-TWO-WAY BOUNCE:


I was thinking the Gold would be a great idea and help to Skin tones.

What do you guys think? Any suggestions other than these? Make my own diffuser maybe?

How about for shooting promo pictures for bands (black and white glossies) also , what do you suggest?


Is the Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM really worth that much extra the money?

The results really that much better than say a TAMRON 28-75MM I'm using or a Sigma 28-70mm F2.8 EX? What do you suggest? And what would be your second suggestion?

Also, here's what I use for long shots (shooting from the sound board at arena shows )

Sigma 70-200mm f/ 2.8 HSM
Sigma 1.4x EX APO Extender



BTW, I could probably post photos of the lightining in these main clubs/bars I mainly photo at if needed.

Thanks for the help

[G3]

It's going to be difficult, if not impossible, for anyone to offer you any advice without seeing a couple of the shots you are talking about.

[foley]

Ok, here is a shot right from my camera, I just resized it.
THis is the place I have the MOST problem with.
They only have one set of lights and they are in front of the stage it's pretty dim no back lights and the place is VERY small!
The set of lights on the front of the stage has only about 5 or 6 lamps and it's like 4 reds and 2 blues or something.
Photos always look really red or orange without a flash.
(I usually make them Black & White and they look a lot better)

This photo was take with no flash at all.
Lens used was a Canon 50mm 1.4f

http://www.musicandentertainmentonline.com/showingcoloratthemel.jpg

[G3]

You could help this image quite a bit in Levels, by going in and individually correcting the red, green and blue channels. However, if you want to have a photo that does not show any effects from the stage lighting (completely accurate daylight color rendition of the subject), you would have to use a flash when you shoot it. That would not accurately reproduce what you saw, though. Then it wouldn't look like a concert photo...concert photos should strike a balance between showing what the concert actually looked like and accurate (daylight) rendition of the subject....you want to be able to tell it was taken at a concert.

I think if you use PS to reduce the red cast somewhat on this photo, you will have an effective concert shot.

[nosquare2003]

Is the lighting in the bar consistent?

[henkbos]

Shoot RAW. That will solve your problems with color casts as it is a lot easier to correct them.

[CoolToolGuy]

Sorry, I don't have a lot of time this morning, so I must summarize my thoughts on this.

Flash will wash out any stage lighting effects. Try to avoid it. Lens speed and white balance are your friends. At f2.8 your shutter speeds are probably very slow. Try going for the 85mm f1.8, 100mm f2, 135mm f2. Increase the ASA to 200 or 400 and change the white balance to the 'bulb' setting.

Raw makes the white balance unnecessary, but I like to minimize post-processing.

Hope this helps.

[nosquare2003]

If the lighting is rather consistent, I will:

- shoot raw;
- shoot a white sheet of paper or 18% grey card;
- convert the photo by selecting the white paper / grey card as white balance and save it. Convert the same photo without changing the white balance
- blend them into two layers in Photoshop
- use layer mask and layer opacity for control.

[foley]

Is the lighting in the bar consistent?Yes, it is

[nosquare2003]

For a consistent lighting, it's easy to get the "correct" skin tone by using custom white balance. However, like others said, the photo will have a "daylight" look and the mood will be gone.

Others' ideas are great to try. Personally, I think that henkbos suggestion for RAW is simple. You can adjust the colour temperature until it pleases you.

My suggestion was to use layers in Photoshop to adjust the skin tone separately.

I agree with others not to use flash. As the lighting is dim there, the flash will be the main source of lighting.

Hope this helps.

[foley]

I agree with others not to use flash. As the lighting is dim there, the flash will be the main source of lighting.

I agree with others not to use flash. As the lighting is dim there, the flash will be the main source of lighting.

Yes I agree, and that is what I've been trying. But the lights are SO dim in there it's almost impossible.

I thought maybe I could use VERY little flash, like bounce it of use a Diffuser. Heck I don't know, I still concern myself a beginner basically.

I do know I've got pretty lucky with VERY VERY dim light before check out this shot, people love it!
http://www.indianapolismusic.net/pics4/dep/dill1804%20464.jpg

Thanks for the help guys

[G3]

That is a great shot.

[alsmith]

post processing sounds like your best option but you might experiment with white balance using the stage lights. I find that it works great in lowlight and odd color situations.

The second picture is pretty good, I like the smoke in the lights from the rear.

[Goofup]

As a former band member, please, please, never use flash!

I've must've seen a hundred threads of people wanting to know how take band shots in crowded, dimly lit clubs. This is like asking how to take decent picture of a running black cat at midnight. I have two stock answers:

1- Yes, it can be done, but to get the kind of shots you're thinking about you'll have to use one of those classified cameras that only the government can afford.

2- Get a digital movie camera. Some of them have amazing low-light capabilities- much better than still cameras. Not only will you capture the motions and sounds of your favorite band, you'll have your choice of thousands of frames to pull stills off of.

[PhotosGuy]

Do you go there a lot & are you shooting just for yourself? How about showing the owner a few pics & offer to give him a few for advertising purposes, if he'll take the red gell off one of the lights for one set? (& maybe kick the intensity up a bit, too.)
I did that years ago & also got a free bar tab out of it!
:wink:

[RichardtheSane]

In my experience of concert photography you need to make a choice. Mood and atmosphere of the venue or natural looking skin tones. It is possible to get a good compromise but not easy and requires experimentation and a flashgun. When I did achieve fairly natural skin tones they looked totally out of place with all the smoke and lighting. I did it by experimenting with manual modes. I sef for the widest aperture, and 1/90th then adjusted the flash output until it gave a good exposure. I think I ended up at about 1/16th flash.

I now shoot totally without flash because I prefer the 'real' look of the gig.

Another thing I do with my images is process them to get the 'rock and roll' look. Monochrome and grainy - in fact with images that have a lot of red sometimes it is all you can do with them! Here are a few of my shots, color and a mono.

Quireboys
http://www.richardlindley.co.uk/images/quireboys0025.jpg

http://www.richardlindley.co.uk/images/quireboys0045.jpg

HIM

http://www.richardlindley.co.uk/images/himmono.jpg

http://www.richardlindley.co.uk/images/ville1colour.jpg

Not the best shots in the world, but an example or two :)

[foley]

Mood and atmosphere of the venue or natural looking skin tones.

Really to tellyou the truth I try to do both.
I'll shoot a few with flash(if the place and the band is ok with it) and than the rest I'll shoot without.

[RichardtheSane]

I hope you don't mind but I had a quick (and I do mean quick :) ) play with your image and did a bit of what I do with mine....

http://www.richardlindley.co.uk/images/rock.jpg

[foley]

Yeah, I know them photos from that bar look pretty good to me in black and white ( I think).
That is how I summit that photo to my publisher was in B & W .

To go back to my question though, I'm not really to worried about natural skin tones. I just thought if I use just a little bit of flash I can still capture the stage lightning and atmosphere without the hot spots on their faces.
That's why I asked about diffusers and such.

Thanks a lot for the help guys, it is very appreciated . :D

[RichardtheSane]

I think then you need to experiment with manual flash. A diffuser such as the omnibounce will not help much in that environment because you still have a small light source and nothing to bounce it off. Also because the omnibounce cuts a couple of stops of light out then if you use ETTL then you will notice a drain on batteries.

The way I worked out the settings was to correclty expose all the scene without flash, then apply manual flash and (depending on distance) adjust the output on the flash itself untill you get the images you want. There is a scale on the rear of the flashgun that shows you what range the flash will be effective at when in manual mode, if possible try to be at the furthest end of that range so the flash is not fully illumintaing the subject. Shoot raw because working out white balance in that situation and environment is close to impossible, plus even if the white balance is correct you might not like the way the image looks!

Did I explain myself OK? :)