Protection for front element

[nMotion96]

i got a canon 17-55 and sigma 10-20. what kinda of filter do you guys recommend that i used to protect the front element on these 2 lens.

[stevieboy378]

The Lens caps . . . .

[SkipD]

The Lens caps . . . .Ditto....

Use the rigid lens hoods that are designed by the lens manufacturers for each of the lenses as well.

[jcpoulin]

Hoods here as well. At the beach, with bright light or wind , I will use polarizer for both effect and protection.

[jr_senator]

lens cap, lens hood, and due care.

[drjiveturkey]

I prefer B+W MC filters over the other brands. Good build quality and doesn't degrade image quality. But like others have mentioned, the lens hood is the best protector.

[steved110]

Good quality UV filter to keep the front element clean and scratch free. hoods won't do that. Especially on an ultra-wide angle. You do need thin filters to avoid vignetting on the UWAs though.

The argument for and against filters is well established. But you will never see a post from a filter user whining about a scratched lens.

Like most religious arguments, you will also never succeed in persuading a member of either camp that he/she is wrong. I would simply point out that I am nearly always right about most things, and I use filters. ;)

[jr_senator]

But you will never see a post from a filter user whining about a scratched lens.



Or a non-filter using person either.

[SkipD]

I don't have any scratched lenses, and half of what I own is already 40 years old - and well used. I have never had filters on any of them for "protection".

[ed rader]

i got a canon 17-55 and sigma 10-20. what kinda of filter do you guys recommend that i used to protect the front element on these 2 lens.

multi coated UV filter. i use hoyas on all my lenses 24/7.

ed rader

[Lester Wareham]

You have triggered off the two camps, filter or no filter; each gives advice which reflects their own usage.

It is well established that a top end filter will have minimal impact on image quality even in relatively strong lighting.

You can choose to:

a) not risk any image loss and use no filter - although some would argue this delays image loss due to build up of tiny scratches during cleaning. I don't think this is all that likely if you clean carefully. However contrary to commonly stated opinions I know from experience that any hard object with minimal force will scratch the front element coating even on a modern lens. Also note that one of the common ways of damaging a front element is the lens cap coming off in a bag during transport.

b) fit a filter when using the kit in conditions that might cause damage; salt spray, windblown sand, chance of projectiles, small kids and animals with fingers or noses everywhere.

c) use a filter all or most of the time, Perhaps removing it when lighting conditions are very harsh say for night shots, although tests show the best filters mostly have a second order effect of flare.

Which you choose is more a mater of personality, a bit like getting insurance cover or saying 'what the hell, if it breaks, gets lost, gets stolen I'll pay for another'.

But if you use a filter, use a top end one with low reflectance; Hoya SHMC Pro1, Heliopan SH-PMC or B+W MRC. Summary of manufactures data. (http://www.zen20934.zen.co.uk/photography/LensTests/Flare/FilterData.htm)

Lastly, with a filter or not use the designated lens hood. Some protection for lens and if used an expensive filter, but more to the point it will reduce flare.

[Master-9]

Here we go again :-)

[ed rader]

Here we go again :-)

once a week. it's the closest thing to religion that some of us heathens see :D .

ed rader

[steved110]

Or a non-filter using person either.

I can recall seeing a couple of posts about scratches but would struggle to recall them. But it happens.

I don't have any scratched lenses, and half of what I own is already 40 years old - and well used. I have never had filters on any of them for "protection".

I'm not implying that a filter is any replacement for due care and attention - I take good care of my stuff and would not expect anything to get scratched through normal use. the biggest advantage my filters give me is protection against inadvertent finger smudges - which occurs easily. It is so much easier to clean ( let alone replace) a filter than a lens. And most scratches are probably caused by inept cleaning.

Hoods provide some degree of physical protection and I use mine. But the filters stay - on a £/gram of glass basis, they are way more expensive than my lenses.

This is , as I said, an age old argument that is basically unwinnable. Please yourself. We all do, ultimately!

[Billginthekeys]

You have triggered off the two camps, filter or no filter; each gives advice which reflects their own usage.

It is well established that a top end filter will have minimal impact on image quality even in relatively strong lighting.

You can choose to:

a) not risk any image loss and use no filter - although some would argue this delays image loss due to build up of tiny scratches during cleaning. I don't think this is all that likely if you clean carefully. However contrary to commonly stated opinions I know from experience that any hard object with minimal force will scratch the front element coating even on a modern lens. Also note that one of the common ways of damaging a front element is the lens cap coming off in a bag during transport.

b) fit a filter when using the kit in conditions that might cause damage; salt spray, windblown sand, chance of projectiles, small kids and animals with fingers or noses everywhere.

c) use a filter all or most of the time, Perhaps removing it when lighting conditions are very harsh say for night shots, although tests show the best filters mostly have a second order effect of flare.

Which you choose is more a mater of personality, a bit like getting insurance cover or saying 'what the hell, if it breaks, gets lost, gets stolen I'll pay for another'.

But if you use a filter, use a top end one with low reflectance; Hoya SHMC Pro1, Heliopan SH-PMC or B+W MRC. Summary of manufactures data. (http://www.zen20934.zen.co.uk/photography/LensTests/Flare/FilterData.htm)

Lastly, with a filter or not use the designated lens hood. Some protection for lens and if used an expensive filter, but more to the point it will reduce flare.
+1
i use B+W MRC filters on all my lenses.

[jr_senator]

It is so much easier to clean ( let alone replace) a filter than a lens.



Begs the question, how many filters have you replaced?

[Billginthekeys]

Begs the question, how many filters have you replaced?
if its like me probably none, but it doesnt mean it can happen. and since there is NO significant DISadvantage to using filters other than an extra $80 i will continue to use them. I never understood why non filter people bash everyone who uses them simply because they choose to, its downright silly. If you dont want to use filters, great, good for you, i could care less, and wouldnt mind if some of you would adopt the same policy :rolleyes:

[steved110]

Begs the question, how many filters have you replaced?

None. but the 77mm Hoya on my 17-40 has a small scratch - most likley caused by being a bit too enthusiastic with a lens tissue. It needs replacing, and before too long I will.

If the mark was on the front element of my lens I would be far less sanguine about it. As it is, I'm not delighted.

[rammy]

Begs the question, how many filters have you replaced?

I've replaced one B+W UV filter on my 24-105 becasue I zoomed in over a railing and hit the spike! Didn't have the hood on. I got it from HK so wasn't fussed spending the money to get another one.

Suffice to say I am MUCH MORE careful and grateful for my filters.

I would recommend you get B+W Muli-coated filters or Hoya Pro-1 multi-coated Digital filters. Clear or UV, you decide, I have both.

[neil_r]

Ohh goody, we have never had this debate before ;-)

[ed rader]

None. but the 77mm Hoya on my 17-40 has a small scratch - most likley caused by being a bit too enthusiastic with a lens tissue. It needs replacing, and before too long I will.

If the mark was on the front element of my lens I would be far less sanguine about it. As it is, I'm not delighted.

i have a scratch on one of my UV filters too and will get around to replacing it someday :D .

ed rader

[jr_senator]

[URL="http://www.zen20934.zen.co.uk/photography/LensTests/Flare/FilterData.htm"]

Interesting read. But like all such tests/comparisons there can be errors in the report. Perhaps it is of no consequence to some but there are a couple of points that I fault. First, "[2] Heliopan quote 2.5% per side of the filter for standard filters and a little later 0.2% SH-PMC filters. It is assumed this value is also per side of glass." While it is to the testers credit that this is pointed out in footnotes, it is none the less,assumed. And, "[5] B+W and Heliopan make a big deal out of using Schott optical glass, however the standard formula optical glass manufacture is a well developed process with all manufactures using essentially the same formula and processes.". This is way off track. Hoya pours their glass into seperate molds for each filter where uneven cooling down can cause distortion. The schott glass is made in cylinders and cut by laser, the filter then has to be completely flat. This is a big advantage for B+W and Heliopan and should not be dismissed as a "marketing gimmick". And what is not presented at all is the superiority of brass mounts not to bend, flex, distort. et over aluminum.

[Nick_C]

Or a non-filter using person either.

Strange as it was only a few months back when a guy on here was moaning his front element was scratched..

Nick :-)

[steved110]

You saw that too then Nick? I thought I was imagining things....

Of course then there's that infamous paintballing picture, which is kind of like photography snuff stuff....

[Nick_C]

You saw that too then Nick? I thought I was imagining things....

Of course then there's that infamous paintballing picture, which is kind of like photography snuff stuff....

hehe yeah, I thought it strange at the time when the UV haters said that scratches on the element wont matter or show, what? that makes no sense!

Nick :-)

[Grentz]

My kit lens is unprotected (no hood, no filter) and I have no scratches but there are some smudges (yes I could clean them off, but still).

I also have my 75-300 III USM that has a UV Filter on it. Causes no loss in IQ and it adds some nice protection. At the beach I noticed sand on the front many times that I could just wipe off, if that was on the front element it would not necessarily be an easy wipe off cause sand and grit can easily scratch it.

When I get my 24-105 I plan to use the hood and/or use a CPL all the time on it :)

[steved110]

Use a blower to get sand off your gear - if you wipe it, no matter how carefully, it will leave scratches.

Sand cuts glass.

[Nick_C]

Use a blower to get sand off your gear - if you wipe it, no matter how carefully, it will leave scratches.

Sand cuts glass.

Probably wise to do this even with general dust specs, ive had old filters that have so many microfine scratches that they start to look hazy, I now blow & wipe <-- hmm that sounds kinky :lol:

Nick :-)

[jr_senator]

And, if there is a small bit of something left on the lens after blowing, I crumple up a fresh piece of optic cleaning tissue and just kinda pick the little rascal off.

[Nick_C]

And, if there is a small bit of something left on the lens after blowing, I crumple up a fresh piece of optic cleaning tissue and just kinda pick the little rascal off.

Yep same here, can never be too careful ;)

Nick :-)

[nMotion96]

i search B+W MC filters and so many came up. can someone post a certain one or a link to b&h that they would use for those 2 lens thanks.

[Lester Wareham]

B+W and Heliopan make a big deal out of using Schott optical glass, however the standard formula optical glass manufacture is a well developed process with all manufactures using essentially the same formula and processes."[/COLOR][/I]. This is way off track. Hoya pours their glass into seperate molds for each filter where uneven cooling down can cause distortion. The schott glass is made in cylinders and cut by laser, the filter then has to be completely flat. This is a big advantage for B+W and Heliopan and should not be dismissed as a "marketing gimmick". And what is not presented at all is the superiority of brass mounts not to bend, flex, distort. et over aluminum.

We have had this discussion before (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2864667&postcount=46), both Hoya and Schott are in the top 5 or manufactures of optical glass. The hot press and polish method is the same as Canon use for lens elements (http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/tech/l_plant/index.html). The cylinder phase sounds like the same part of the process after initial mix prior to the hot press phase.

I don't think any company goes into its production methods that clearly, and I just don't see where you get this idea from, optical glass manufacture and blank creation is a well established process dating back decades, I doubt any of it is rocket science to either company.

But even if you are right and Hoya directly mold rather than hot pressing it does not follow that their process control will cause a problem, that is a conclussion you have made.

Do you actually have any evidence to show this 'distortion'?

It just sounds like scare monger surmise to me. In any event lens resolutions tests with Hoya Pro 1 filters shows no loss of lens resolution, so I find it difficult to credit this as actually being an issue.

Your sure have a downer on Hoya. :)

[jr_senator]

The hot press and polish method is the same as Canon use for lens elements (http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/tech/l_plant/index.html).

OK, fine, nice to know, but I'm not going to side track myself with another company's off the subject (ie. lenses instead of filters) product.

The cylinder phase sounds like the same part of the process after initial mix prior to the hot press phase.



Huh? This from Hoya; "After being melted...this material is then precision molded..." and this from Heliopan "Heliopan filters are "dyed in the mass"...Heliopan cuts, grinds, polishes and coats their filters..." and from B+W; " B+W filters...start with a cylinder of Schott German optical glass from which the filters are diamond cut..."


Your sure have a downer on Hoya. :)

No, I don't care for filters made with the materials Hoya uses or their crafting methods. This includes Canon, Nikon, and a host of non-German made filters. I'm an equal opportunity picker-oner.:wink:

[Billginthekeys]

i search B+W MC filters and so many came up. can someone post a certain one or a link to b&h that they would use for those 2 lens thanks.
you want the 010 MRC in whatever mm's you need.

[JimAskew]

once a week. it's the closest thing to religion that some of us heathens see :D .

ed rader

ROTFLMAO :lol:

OP - I use B+W UV MRC filters on all my lenses. As others have stated should you choose to use filters then only buy the best. And, also use a hood at all times.

[JimAskew]

i search B+W MC filters and so many came up. can someone post a certain one or a link to b&h that they would use for those 2 lens thanks.

If I am correct then both of your lenses use a 77MM filter size. Here is the one I bought from B+H:

[Lester Wareham]

Huh? This from Hoya; "After being melted...this material is then precision molded..." and this from Heliopan "Heliopan filters are "dyed in the mass"...Heliopan cuts, grinds, polishes and coats their filters..." and from B+W; " B+W filters...start with a cylinder of Schott German optical glass from which the filters are diamond cut..."


Well I sure hope they anneal after cutting them from bulk material. The normal optical blank method is to form cylinders, cut and trim to the correct volume, hot press mold, anneal and the grind and polish.


No, I don't care for filters made with the materials Hoya uses or their crafting methods. This includes Canon, Nikon, and a host of non-German made filters. I'm an equal opportunity picker-oner.:wink:


It is of course up to you, but I think you are reading too much into what is after all the output from a marketing department; these folks are expert at making the ordinary sound extraordinary as well as promising the impossible - but that is another story. I worked with too many of these people to take much note of what companies put in marketing collateral.

Canon filters are of course (not to be too technical) expensive crap.

It is always fun to argue these with you, take care. ;)

[Double Negative]

Buy a good filter such as Heliopan SH-PMC and B+W MRC and you will neither degrade your image nor run into problems. I use them on all my L zooms.

[Jon]

I use nothing but B+W MRC filters on my lenses, and they're always on. Lens hoods, especially on wide-angle zooms, offer too little protection IMO. And they offer no protection at all if you're in windy environments (either natural wind or prop or jet wash) with airborne debris, or in undergrowth or unmaintained trails. Not to mention they don't help against dogs sniffing at the lens and leaving noseprints.

[Nick_C]

I use nothing but B+W MRC filters on my lenses, and they're always on. Lens hoods, especially on wide-angle zooms, offer too little protection IMO. And they offer no protection at all if you're in windy environments (either natural wind or prop or jet wash) with airborne debris, or in undergrowth or unmaintained trails. Not to mention they don't help against dogs sniffing at the lens and leaving noseprints.

I agree 100% with you, all I keep seeing on here is "a hood is the only protection you need" a hood is designed to stop light from hitting the lens, I guess it would provide a mild protection against you moving forward & hitting on something but thats about all.

Nick :-)

[StealthLude]

I hate using filters on my lenses so Id go with a hood.

[nicksan]

B+W 010 MRC multicoated filters.
That, plus the lens cap and the gigantic hood should keep things in order!

[Nick_C]

I hate using filters on my lenses so Id go with a hood.

WE HAVE A UV NON BELIEVER!, GET HIM!!!! lol ;)

Nick ;-)

[steved110]

I believe the last poll on this weighty and important subject showed slightly over 50% of us use UV filters, and the rest don't.

It is always fun to argue the point - notice the OP has beaten a fairly hasty retreat - :D - but at the end of the day you have to do what you are comfortable with, and take the consequences. Most of us are grownups after all!

[Lester Wareham]

notice the OP has beaten a fairly hasty retreat

Yup, the photographer's equivalent to "Eris' golden apple of discord", pardon the classical reference.

Start a post with the word filters in it and watch the discord grow! :lol:

[JimAskew]

Yup, the photographer's equivalent to "Eris' golden apple of discord", pardon the classical reference.

Start a post with the word filters in it and watch the discord grow! :lol:

But isn't this what POTN is all about? The OP asked a valid question and everybody chimes with his/her perspective of the correct answer.

I see no sense in arguing about it...state your case and let the OP decide...the only time for disagreement is if someone put out false or mis-leading information.

Professionals do not have to resort to argumentative or sarcastic language to make their points...my $0.02 worth.

[steved110]

Actually for a filter related debate, this one has been pretty civilised! No one has been rude or dismissive, and sarcasm has been fairly minimal.

A lot of ill-feeling can develop from cultural misunderstanding, and some people have no sense of humour, but on the whole it has been pretty good natured.

And that is what POTN is for. If there were absolutes in these things, it would be a very boring place!

[BBrat]

i use MC UV filters and a c-pol filter. i just did a 9 day cruise and the filters were life savers on beaches/sand and the water/salt, especially when there are winds blowing all over.

also my c-pol filter saved my 24-70 in ST.Lucia. was in the Internet café at the end of the day and didn't know that one of the 2 doors to the café was locked(closing). so i go to leave and push on the door and the door doesn't budge but my camera continued its forward motion and the pol filter rim hit the handle to the door. the lens and filter are fine but the filters rim has a nice little gouge on it. it could have been my lens that had the gouge, but thank fully not. i am very anal on keeping my gear pristine.

[nMotion96]

If I am correct then both of your lenses use a 77MM filter size. Here is the one I bought from B+H:

yeah both of them are 77mm but i heard your suppose to get a thin one for the wide angle correct? or was that only for the canon 10-22 and not the sigma 10-20.

[jr_senator]

Hay, if using an UV filter routinely gives someone that warm, secure feeling (like a security blanket) then it's worth it to the user.

[mitchella68]

I am looking on here to see the best quality protection ( UV filter) I can obtain. I assume I know jack about most subjects so Im no pro here. I shoot outdoor motocross and will not resist the shots that put my lens beind the tires of passing bikes. Even at 30 plus feet and a bike passing me at a 90 deg. angle will at times leave chips in my Canon filter like a winshield. I would rather not use a filter for most other shooting though.

[Big WIll]

I never use filters for protection, i ALWAYS have the hoods on my lenses though. A hood is a must in my opinion. Whether its blocking excess light or not!

My 70-200mm and its hood are best friends, its hood has saved it from many scrapes!

[jr_senator]

I am looking on here to see the best quality protection ( UV filter) I can obtain.

The best filters are made by Heliopan or B+W. I'm not sure just what difference you may experience in the finished photo by using coated or multi-coated filters.

[Tyreman]

I never use anything on the front element its capped when not in use.
A sometimes is a lens hood.
But people might want to place a special effect filter or there are those that have a non invasive cover(filter) over the front element at all times for a protective stance.
It depends what side of the bridge you are on and of course want to be on.:lol: