printer profile ?

[RJCONKLIN]

i have had photoshop cs for 3 months. i have figured out how to use most of the basic tools. i have read the user guide that came with cs, also i purchased classroom in a book which i have also read.

my problem is understanding how to get what i see on the computer screen to look anything like what i print. all my prints look like they went through a bleach bath. they are almost impossibel to correct because of the difference between what i see on screen and on print.

my equipment: canon 10d; nec multisync fp2141sb; canon i9100.

my settings: camera adobe rgb raw; photoshop cs color settings custom adobe rgb 1998; adobe gamma, adobe rgb 1998. use only canon ink and glossy photo paper pro.

i am just really lost in all of this. i called nec to see what phosphorus they used in their monitors. needless to say they thought i was crazy.

i would apperciate help in getting things closer to right. is there a cookbook to setup the equipment i have? does anyone know who to contact to set me straight?

thank you.

[scottbergerphoto]

The most important thing you can do is to first calibrate your monitor, and make sure that the monitor profile you create is set as your default monitor profile. You can do this with Adobe Gamma, or a Hardware/Software package like Spyder/Optical. Adobe Gamma should not be one of your PS settings, it is a calibration program that can be found in your Windows Control Panel. Once you have done that, post back your setttings in PS CS and your printer driver and will see what needs to be done next.
Scott

[RJCONKLIN]

this is what i do not understand. in adobe gamma under description i have adobe rgb 1998. if i try to chance it to nfp21411.icm it says it is not a legal profile. what is the correct profile for my monitor {nec multisync fp2141sb}?

[slin100]

Unfortunately, color management is not easy to understand.

First off, at a minimum, you need to calibrate your monitor. While you can buy an expensive spyder to do the calibration, you should first try the simpler visual calibrators and see if you get "good enough" results. There's, of course, the Adobe Gamma utility that came with Photoshop. Using that utility should get your monitor into the ballpark. Many will find that sufficient. You can doublecheck aspects of the calibration, like gamma and black level, by visiting Norman Koren's excellent website (http://www.normankoren.com). You'll want to go his page on Monitor calibration and gamma (http://normankoren.com/makingfineprints1A.html). Norman's pages are somewhat wordy, so if you want to cut to the chase, just jump down to the Gamma and black level chart (http://normankoren.com/makingfineprints1A.html#gammachart).

Second, you need set up Photoshop and your print driver. If you have a custom ICM profile for your printer's paper, you want to set up Photoshop to use it. If you don't have a custom profile, you should set up Photoshop to use Printer Color Management, which will let the printer driver handle the final conversions. I don't have a Canon, but if the Canon print driver has a setting to use ICM, try that first because I see you're using Adobe RGB as your working space. I just a did websearch and found that you can enable ICM if you switch to manual color adjustment in the driver. The ICM setting will make the printer driver convert the image from its source colorsapce (Adobe RGB in your case) to the colorspace best suited for the paper/ink combination. Strangely, some find that enabling ICM produces worse results, so you'll want to experiment.

You can read more about setting up color management policies in Photoshop here (http://www.creativepro.com/story/feature/14331.html) and here (http://www.creativepro.com/story/feature/15310.html). If you want a treatise on color management, I recommend Real World Color Management by Bruce Fraser, the author of the two articles referenced above.

[scottbergerphoto]

this is what i do not understand. in adobe gamma under description i have adobe rgb 1998. if i try to chance it to nfp21411.icm it says it is not a legal profile. what is the correct profile for my monitor {nec multisync fp2141sb}?
When you run the Adobe Gamma program, it will ask you to give your new profile a name. Give it a useful name like the date and what it is: 042704monitor. Then tell Adobe Gamma to save that as your default monitor profile. That's it. Windows will then recognize that as your profile. You don't need to specify that profile anywhere else.
Scott

[RJCONKLIN]

i have got to tell all of you it's a shame anyone should have to go through this with a $650.00 program it should match my monitor automatically.

having said that you can see how frustrated i am becoming. in adobe gamma i need to know the following

1]description
2]brightness and contrast
3]phosphors
4]gamma view single gamma only check box. check or uncheck?
5]windows default or custom
6]white point hardware. what degrees kelvin?
7]white point adjusted. what degrees kelvin?

now before anyone says you have to use the wizard, i have many times, i just do not understand what i am doing because i do not know what they are talking about.

if someone can fill in the 7 points above, maybe i can get the print to look closer to the monitor.

p.s. if i convert raw with file viewer and print with canon easy photo the prints look like the screen.

[slin100]

This article (http://www.aim-dtp.net/aim/photoshop/v6/adobe_gamma.htm) has a reasonable walk-thru for Adobe Gamma and answers to all your questions.

[scottbergerphoto]

You can use the defaults for most if not all of the items. Set your monitor to 6500K. There should be a button on the front of your monitor that allows you to set contrast, bightness, etc.
Scott

[RJCONKLIN]

thanks to all of you, espically slin 100. i needed that cookbook article.

[RJCONKLIN]

if i change monitor profiles in adobe gamma from nec multisync fp2141sp to adobe monitor profile or any other profile in adobe gamma why is it that in photoshop on print preview it always shows up the same: nec multisync fp2141sb@9300k?

[scottbergerphoto]

In PS Print Preview you have to make 2 selections:
1. Source: That should be the color space the picture was shot in sRGB or AdobeRGB, etc. It shoul be detected by PS.
2. Output: this is the space where you havte to decide to manage the color in PS or your printer. If you decide to let the printer driver manage the color, select Printer Color Management. If you decide to mange in PS, you must have an ICC profile for the paper, ink, printer you are using, and select that. I suggest you start with the former, letting the printer driver do it.
There is no place for your monitor profile in Print Preview. You don't want to use it there.
To be sure your computer is using the profile you made, Rt. click on your desktop, go into properties/settings/advanced/color management, and make sure your profile is selected as the default profile. If it isn't, make it so.
Scott

[slin100]

In PS Print Preview you have to make 2 selections:
1. Source: That should be the color space the picture was shot in sRGB or AdobeRGB, etc. It shoul be detected by PS.

A minor clarification. Selecting Source means that the working space will be the source color space. If the color management policies are set up to preserve the color profile embedded in the image, then the working space will be the same as the image's. If the policy is set up to convert images to the working space (typically AdobeRGB), then the source space will always be AdobeRGB and may not necessarily the be same as the image's.

[maderito]

if i change monitor profiles in adobe gamma from nec multisync fp2141sp to adobe monitor profile or any other profile in adobe gamma why is it that in photoshop on print preview it always shows up the same: nec multisync fp2141sb@9300k?

If have a different read on your question.

When you use Adobe Gamma, you begin with a profile which then gets modified, in your case the Nec Multisync profile. Once you've completed the calibration, you save the profile, typically under a different name, e.g. "My Profile.icm". However, the name tag internal to the profile still identifies it as the Nec Multisync profile - and that's what Photoshop reads.

Since you created this profile with Adobe Gamma, it becomes your new monitor profile. In PS, check in Edit/Color Settings under Working Spaces/RGB. The list should include "Monitor Profile" followed by the name of the actual ICC/ICM file that is being used as the monitor profile. In your case, it should be the Multisync profile. If you started with the Adobe RGB 1998 profile to begin calibration in Adobe Gamma, then you should see the name "Adobe RGB 1998" - or something like that - no matter what name you saved the profile under.

As already noted, you should not use the monitor profile for printing.

[RJCONKLIN]

ok! i am just totally confused. i am going to ask of the 40 profiles in adobe gamma which one should i use? i have a nec multisync fp2141sb monitor.

in photoshop cs under print preview do i use color management or output?
under print space profile what item do i select?
under intent what item do i select?
do i use black point compression?

is there any connection between what i select in adobe gamma and the print preview in photoshop?

in camera i shoot adobe rgb raw only.

i am not looking for perfection, only something fairly close. in other words if i see green grass on the screen i dont want it to print blue or purple.

[maderito]

ok! i am just totally confused. i am going to ask of the 40 profiles in adobe gamma which one should i use? i have a nec multisync fp2141sb monitor.

In Adobe Gamma (using the step-by-step wizard), typically you load the profile that corresponds to your monitor, if it is available. If not available, load the sRGB profile which typically has settings (gamma, white point, etc.) similar to monitor profiles. Save the profile under a different name - it doesn't matter what. When you recalibrate with Adobe Gamma, the same profile name you started with (not the name you saved it under) should come up as a default .

in photoshop cs under print preview do i use color management or output? under print space profile what item do i select?
"Color Management" and "Output" toggles between 2 different sets of options. You're interested in the color management options.

With color management selected:
1. Source space: Adobe RGB
2. Print space: Printer color management
3. Printer driver: Select correct media, check manual color adjustment, select "Set...", and check "Enable ICM"

under intent what item do i select? do i use black point compression?
Not needed.

You only make this selection if you are using media-specific ICC profiles AND you have selected it for "Print space". Then you would use perceptual or colorimetric intent and check black point compensation.


is there any connection between what i select in adobe gamma and the print preview in photoshop?
Not really. The printer profile created by Adobe Gamma enables Photoshop to create a color managed environment. If your monitor is poorly profiled, then what you see in PS won't look like what you see on prints. Only in this sense is what you see in PS and in Print with Preview related to what you've done with Adobe Gamma.

i am not looking for perfection, only something fairly close.
Aren't we all :) :)
See my post for more info: http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=29530

The Adobe Gamma Utility is the least reliable but cheapest way to get better color managed results. Consider the Spyder colorimeter and associated software as a (more costly) option.

[RJCONKLIN]

to maderito: you see this is what is confusing. i ask which one of the 40 icc profiles i should use in adobe gamma for a nec fp2141sb monitor. what does the wizard have to do with a predetermined profile?

using the wizard i cannot answer the questions ask ie. phosphors? degrees kelvin?

i am sorry to say i do not understand your explination of save the profile under a different name. if i do that it replaces icc profiles which may be incorrect. i do not want to overwrite any original icc files

by the way i tried, just for the heck of it, to write my own profile using the wizard. under description i used "conklin profile" at the end where it says finish, the "conklin profile" was no where to be found among the 40 icc profiles. maybe it's just as well because i did not understand half of what they were asking.

maybe i am asking the questions. is there a company i can call on the phone to help me out? i tried calling nec, they thought i was nuts. maybe they are right!

anyway thanks to all of you for trying to help.

[maderito]

Check this link for a step-by-step description of how to calibrate with Adobe Gamma:

http://www.computer-darkroom.com/ps8-colour/ps8_2.htm

There's other information on the site which you will also find useful.

[RJCONKLIN]

yes yes yes!!! mr. maderito. this is exactly the "cookbook" i have been looking for. i never unchecked single gamma no wonder i could never find color gamma settings often talked about, let alone anything else.

thanks again.

[john_houghton]

When you get round to printing something, there's a Canon guide to using ICC profiles at ICC profile guide (http://homepage.mac.com/renard/ls/Canon_ICC_Profile_Guide.pdf)

John

[RJCONKLIN]

thank you mr. houghton. it's truley a shame that if anyone wants to print from photoshop, they have to go through this. before i used photoshop, i just printed from jpeg with canon easy print the colors printed would match the screen without any kind of adjustments.

maybe adobe will get their act together and make settings automatic for camera, color space and printer.

again thanks