Photography class took over my wedding shot....

[rainny]

Photography class took over my shot.... this weekend did my first wedding while out in the city doing the shots a group of 6 people came over and started taking shots of the B&G and party - I was in shock no one of them asked if anyone minded - can this happen????

rainny

[DocFrankenstein]

I have finished shooting a performance of a friend of mine and was walking around with a 70-200. A newlyweds were walking by and their friend was taking pics with a tiny PS. I took a couple of shots, gave them my card and made a couple of bucks.

I wouldn't shoot if the friend looked like a pro.

[Lin-z]

I would have run them off

[th3r0m]

Photography class took over my shot.... this weekend did my first wedding while out in the city doing the shots a group of 6 people came over and started taking shots of the B&G and party - I was in shock no one of them asked if anyone minded - can this happen????

rainny

Apparently it can... although it wasn't very polite of them, downright rude actually. Whether or not they were in the right or wrong starts one moving into the expectation of privacy in a public place, which can be a tricky and treacherous place to go. Definitely you should have called them on it.

How did your photos turn out? Hopefully this did not upset/ruin any of your shots or anyone's day. :)

[Yeoer]

I think i would have said somethng to the B&G on the lines of... ' i don't mind people taking pictures as long as you realise they are stopping me from taking the ones you are paying for...' i reckon one of the wedding party would say something to them then. Sounds a nitemare.

[LeesaB]

I was in Tel Aviv a few years ago and a beautiful bride was there being photographer...Do you know the whole group went nuts taking her picture and even some of the young kids waited and got their picture with her....I never thought about that till now, and how rude we must have been....The photographer had to have hated us....

[pixel rearranger]

Hey Rainny,

how unfortunate. With no disrespect intended I will say that this situation would not occur if a pro photographer was shooting the gig. So you can take the comment two ways.
A: you could get offended.
B: you could think about that comment & use it to grow.

When I shoot weddings, I am in complete control, kinda like Steven Spielberg.
If anyone tried that BS with me..........well what can I say......it just would not be an issue.

Cheers,

PB

[Curtis N]

Shooting in public places involves certain risks. This is one of them. All you can do is appeal to people's sense of decency and kindly explain that the B&G are paying for your time, hoping they will respect that.

Pretending to be Steven Spielberg in a public place will likely result in ugly confrontation. If you are on private property or have paid to rent a space, that's a different story.

[csm328]

Why would you go into the City and expect NOT to have other people take pictures and get in your way? I would put it all down to being a lesson learned. In the future, if the B&G want city shots, either try and change their mind or explain the possible pitfalls. Learning, learning, learning.

[takeyourpic]

I have to agree with PB. This would not have happened during a wedding that I was shooting.
Now if they were just shooting from the side or from afar there is not much I can do about that, but my question would be where they in your way or close enough to be a distraction?

[convergent]

If you were the "professional" photographer on the scene, I would think that you would ask them to stop. People are getting more and more pushy with butting into professional shoots. What they don't realize, or don't care about, is that they are taking up valuable time, AND, they are risking messing up your images since the groups eyes will likely be distracted.

Entirely different setting, but I had one that took the cake of all cakes this past weekend while doing team pictures for a league. One of the Moms With Camera was there hovering around in our shooting area. I knew I was in trouble when one of her little kids came over to ask her a question and she said, "I can't talk to you right now, I'm taking pictures.". We have a policy of no personal pictures in our shooting area, but thus far haven't come down with a sledge hammer... that will be changing. So when we are doing the team pictures we have an assistant and photographer... and I was there as well in this case. So the pose is done and the assistant backed up to stand beside the photographer (and be out of the frame)... and I was back a ways observing. This idiot Mom asked my photographer and assistant to move out of the way because she couldn't get "her" picture. The look on my folks faces was one of complete shock. They just spent the time to pose the shot, and hadn't even taken it yet! I jumped in and said, "I'm sorry but we have to get the shot that the parents are paying for first.". I then proceeded to stand between this woman and the team. As soon as we got our shot, I told the team all done, and they disbanded. I can't believe the nerve of these people. Then she'd be the first one to complain if we weren't on schedule.

[mmahoney]

To those of you who have replied that this would not happen while you are shooting just what would you do to stop it?

It's an all too common problem during public shoots of all kinds, not only weddings, but I'm really curious as to how it can be stopped.
Mike

[LeesaB]

I think the only way would be to walk up to them and explain to them it is a paid shoot...that you are asking them to please stop....

If they continue, I really do not know what else could be done, they are really breaking no law

you could possibly try to scare them by asking their name address and phone number and see an ID to just make sure none of the images they took show up on the internet or they try to publish any of them...

What else?

[csm328]

I think the only way would be to walk up to them and explain to them it is a paid shoot...that you are asking them to please stop....

If they continue, I really do not know what else could be done, they are really breaking no law

you could possibly try to scare them by asking their name address and phone number and see an ID to just make sure none of the images they took show up on the internet or they try to publish any of them...

What else?

You have no legal right to ask for personal details of people taking pictures in a 'public place'. If you are in public, you are subject to public scrutiny. Taking someone's picture does not violate their civil rights and certainly does not violate any Pro Photogs claim to 'ownership' of an image. Ever seen the Papparazzi in Hollywood? Same rules apply.

Again, it was a mistake to take the B&G to a busy City place. A lesson well learned I'm guessing.

[LeesaB]

then why would you need a consent form to publish a photo for prize or money, or advertising?

If I was a person, out in a park and someone was taking my picture, I think I could ask them anything I want... if they take my image..of me...and use it for a photo contest or for money, they violate copyright laws and I could sue them.

Now because I am a pro photog and I ask, ask, not demand, I am not violating anything, but trying to get a point across...I did not say it was a legal venue, just a stragety that may work to get them to back off.

I photography sports events and a if a parent comes up to me and says..I don't want you to photography my son/daughter, I stop. I don't upload one of those pics. Did they violate my civil rights? or did I theirs? NO..it's just a respect thing. could I still photograph their child? Probably, would I, nope.

a celebrity is a totally different story...not even relative here at all...

[csm328]

Of course it's relative and I see you don't understand the Law so I won't pressure the point. Suffice to say, public place means the public can take your photo. 'Selling' that photo is a whole other kettle of fish and you would require a release. If you photograph sports events then it sounds like you sell the pics so it's nowhere near the same.

I'm sure you don't understand trade-mark law either but...a celebrity falls under that element of civil law so...if they are in a public place, I can take their picture. If I then sell that picture there are certain liabilities that I must accept, especially with regards to how I portray that celebrity. It's a tangled web.

The moment you start lieing or trying to intimidate people in an attempt to 'scare them off', I think you cross the line. Better to avoid the place all together which is the whole point of the advice.

[mmahoney]

If I was a person, out in a park and someone was taking my picture, I think I could ask them anything I want...

You could certainly ask them but they have no obligation to respond .. in a public place you have no "reasonable expectation of privacy" and anyone is free to take your picture.

But you have provided some insight into the way you would handle these things, which is simply talking to the offenders. Which is probably the best way. Convergent suggests a football blocking technique which I must admit has it's charm but just ain't my style ;)

Anyone else ?? .. in particular:

Lin-z ..."I would have run them off"

and

takeyourpic ... "This would not have happened during a wedding that I was shooting"

You seem to have some insight into crowd control that most of us don't .. firehoses ?? .. pepperspray??
Mike

[csm328]

You could certainly ask them but they have no obligation to respond .. in a public place you have no "reasonable expectation of privacy" and anyone is free to take your picture.

But you have provided some insight into the way you would handle these things, which is simply talking to the offenders. Which is probably the best way. Convergent suggests a football blocking technique which I must admit has it's charm but just ain't my style ;)

Anyone else ?? .. in particular:

Lin-z ..."I would have run them off"

and

takeyourpic ... "This would not have happened during a wedding that I was shooting"

You seem to have some insight into crowd control that most of us don't .. firehoses ?? .. pepperspray??
Mike

LOL. I like the 'blocking' technique. I also like how you referred to them as 'offenders'. How about I take my rottwiler?

[PEACHMAN]

I gotta say the thing I disliked the most about my wedding (35 years ago :rolleyes: )was the way the wedding photographer took over the wedding...The whole ceremony became a series of poses set up and called by the photog..there was no natural flow to the events at all. I know I am sitting here among pros, but come on folks, it's the job of the photog soley to record the events for the B&G ..most folks who have cameras out are for their own pleasure and I'm sure few of them get to the B&G afterwards,,,and if the wedding photog has so little confidence in his/her photos , worrying that the amatures may have taken better shots, then perhaps the wedding photog should re-evaluate their occupational training..we as photographers sure don't have some unspoken rights to all the visuals of the wedding....the "other folks with cameras" have no idea that they are treading on some one elses turf when they are shooting..how would they know ?? there are never any signs to that effect and never a printed protocol..Some are just plain rude when the step in front of the photog, but I'm sure that's their MO anyway...all we can do to maintain our integrety is to gently explain why we are here, remain in the back ground as much as possible (people are here to see the B&G not the clever,dynamic photog) , leave the wedding cake alone and pay attention to the activity and keep an eye on our battery level..:D

[LeesaB]

Of course it's relative and I see you don't understand the Law so I won't pressure the point. Suffice to say, public place means the public can take your photo. 'Selling' that photo is a whole other kettle of fish and you would require a release. If you photograph sports events then it sounds like you sell the pics so it's nowhere near the same.

I'm sure you don't understand trade-mark law either but...a celebrity falls under that element of civil law so...if they are in a public place, I can take their picture. If I then sell that picture there are certain liabilities that I must accept, especially with regards to how I portray that celebrity. It's a tangled web.

The moment you start lieing or trying to intimidate people in an attempt to 'scare them off', I think you cross the line. Better to avoid the place all together which is the whole point of the advice.


Wow, was that a choke hold? I never said I knew anything, it was a discussion. I do know somethings and I am really biting at not slamming back at you, but I won't. I feel you can ask people anything, I never said to LIE to anyone, just ask...and I still feel as a person you have a right to make sure any image of you is not going to be used for anything you do not want it to be. It may not be a law, or a copyright or a trademark provision, but it can be just common curtosy. As a photographer you have every right to ask them to stop...make them nope, lie to them why bother? just ask, be nice and I am very sure most people will understand...

[pixel rearranger]

I used to shoot in the city where this wedding took place (assuming it was in Melbourne) & have photographed quite a few weddings in the popular public places there. So, I know it well though I have since opened a studio in another state. Anyhow, this is such a non issue it is surprising to read the varying responses.
As I said earlier, this never would have happened during one of my shoots.........&....if there was even a hint of it the obvious solution is really quite simple.
" Ok guys lets move it, we are outa here..........onto the next location"
Honestly though, I could never see it getting to that. How anyone could get anywhere near a professionally run wedding......just can't happen. And, I do mean "run" A wedding photographer is in control, be it shooting candid or otherwise. Sure these interupters could shoot from a distance, but that would be the full extent of it, who cares.
So you think I sound maybe a bit smug, sorry no offence intended at all. This is my opinion based on 16 years of shooting weddings.

Cheers,

PB

[csm328]

Wow, was that a choke hold? I never said I knew anything, it was a discussion. I do know somethings and I am really biting at not slamming back at you, but I won't. I feel you can ask people anything, I never said to LIE to anyone, just ask...and I still feel as a person you have a right to make sure any image of you is not going to be used for anything you do not want it to be. It may not be a law, or a copyright or a trademark provision, but it can be just common curtosy. As a photographer you have every right to ask them to stop...make them nope, lie to them why bother? just ask, be nice and I am very sure most people will understand...

Nice to see you've changed your origional position. It's great when people actually listen to advice that would normally cost $300.00 an hour. :smile:

[Curtis N]

I could never see it getting to that. How anyone could get anywhere near a professionally run wedding......just can't happen. And, I do mean "run" A wedding photographer is in control, be it shooting candid or otherwise. Your posts would be more helpful if you were a little less vague.

You're shooting a B&G in a public park. I walk up behind you and start shooting. Tell us, specifically, how you and your 16 years experience is going to prevent that. Assume I'm an ignorant SOB with no respect for what you're trying to do, but I know my rights, and I know I have the same rights there that you have.

[csm328]

Your posts would be more helpful if you were a little less vague.

You're shooting a B&G in a public park. I walk up behind you and start shooting. Tell us, specifically, how you and your 16 years experience is going to prevent that. Assume I'm an ignorant SOB with no respect for what you're trying to do, but I know my rights, and I know I have the same rights there that you have.

My point all along. Finally!! :)

[pixel rearranger]

hi Curtis,

what part of "time to move to the next location " was it that you didn't understand ? Any how, the mindset is vastly different in the States to what it is here in Australia

[mrslevite]

hi Curtis,

what part of "time to move to the next location " was it that you didn't understand ? Any how, the mindset is vastly different in the States to what it is here in AustraliaI guess it's more different than I thought. If you move your shoot due to the other photographers, who is really in control? You or the ones who made you move?

[pixel rearranger]

i am pretty fluid in the way I shoot.......we move pretty quick & shoot in a candid manner. A couple of shots in a spot & we are off. The bridal party are drinking chamagne, a few beers. It's relaxed & fun........no one is making me do anything.
If the conditions are not suitable.........move on....too easy...too many good shots to get

[Curtis N]

what part of "time to move to the next location " was it that you didn't understand ?I understood that part, and it seems like a wise and prudent way to react to the situation.

Reacting appropriately to a situation is different from preventing it from happening, hence my confusion.

Thanks for clearing things up.

[pixel rearranger]

no problem Curtis.......as you say reacting appropriately is the way to go. A wedding is not the place for confrontation........keep it flowing.......keep the laughter & fun happening.

Cheers,

PB

[rainny]

Wow what a reply - I was not paid for the job as it was my first.

The thing that really got to me is that is was not only one person at a time but about 6 at a time - I thought it was really rude and in the end the Bride ended up telling them to leave....

Rainny

[pixel rearranger]

Hey Rainny,

& that was my point. It would not happen to a seasoned pro. Or, if it looked like happening it would not have got to the point that it did. Not to worry, all part of the learning process. Have you assisted ? There are some good pros in Melbourne, if you have not already done so I would reccommend approaching a couple of them To assist.
When I started out, I used to assist for free, just carry stuff, change film backs etc.
I loved it. I worked for some of the top guys in Melbourne. Now, yesrs later I have arguably the most high profile wedding studio in Hobart. Actually, it is the studios' seventh birthday today.

Cheers & best wishes,

PB

[cdifoto]

Hey Rainny,

& that was my point. It would not happen to a seasoned pro. Or, if it looked like happening it would not have got to the point that it did. Not to worry, all part of the learning process. Have you assisted ? There are some good pros in Melbourne, if you have not already done so I would reccommend approaching a couple of them To assist.
When I started out, I used to assist for free, just carry stuff, change film backs etc.
I loved it. I worked for some of the top guys in Melbourne. Now, yesrs later I have arguably the most high profile wedding studio in Hobart. Actually, it is the studios' seventh birthday today.

Cheers & best wishes,

PB

Wow. Talk about humble.

[pixel rearranger]

well, i have the runs on the board. I have been where this guy is & am pointing out the potential for any photographer who is prepared to have a red hot go. I am offering encouragement & using my own experience & current position as an example to help motivate a young guy. Your sarcasm is uncalled for. What exactly do you have to offer other than your petty, poisonous barb cdifoto.

PB

[tim]

To those of you who have replied that this would not happen while you are shooting just what would you do to stop it?

I've found most people when given a reasonable request behave reasonably. If people act like an ass you leave the area where they are, if it's public. I would've run them off myself, I don't even let family or the videographer come along for the shots of the wedding party.

[cdifoto]

well, i have the runs on the board. I have been where this guy is & am pointing out the potential for any photographer who is prepared to have a red hot go. I am offering encouragement & using my own experience & current position as an example to help motivate a young guy. Your sarcasm is uncalled for. What exactly do you have to offer other than your petty, poisonous barb cdifoto.

PB

My apologies, Mr. Most High Profile. Arguably, that is. I offer nothing. I am not as elite. :)

[cdifoto]

I would have scolded their teacher. After all, the teacher is the one that told them to shoot my clients' wedding.

It probably would never occur here though, people are generally rather standoffish.

[csm328]

I have a beach wedding (my own) booked for september in miaimi. It's at 5pm. I have a company that does all teh setting up, ushering etc etc but as for crowd control...it's a public space so we'll just have a good time with a few 'onlookers'. Will be quite interesting. This little topis has provided some great food for thought.

On a final point: I think you are a bit out of line Pixel. CDI spends alot of his time helping, contributing and encouraging. You need to get a few more 'runs on the board' and don't be so aggressive.

[cdifoto]

I have a beach wedding (my own) booked for september in miaimi. It's at 5pm. I have a company that does all teh setting up, ushering etc etc but as for crowd control...it's a public space so we'll just have a good time with a few 'onlookers'. Will be quite interesting. This little topis has provided some great food for thought.

Hey congrats! :D

On a final point: I think you are a bit out of line Pixel. CDI spends alot of his time helping, contributing and encouraging. You need to get a few more 'runs on the board' and don't be so aggressive.

I do? I don't mean to! :confused:

[csm328]

Haha, you'd like to think you don't but you actually do. Sorry to disappoint but please do keep up the support. I really need to proof-read what I write and not type and watch Friends at the same time! lol I can spell....truely I can.

[cdifoto]

Haha, you'd like to think you don't but you actually do. Sorry to disappoint but please do keep up the support. I really need to proof-read what I write and not type and watch Friends at the same time! lol I can spell....truely I can.

Note to self: Less advice, more BS. :)

[pixel rearranger]

Hey csm,

yea thanks for the advice. Have fun with your wedding by the way, I love shooting them myself..........funny thing is you get a forum like this & guys are busting to shoot pro weddings. & then, lots of pros hate weddings (mind you they still shoot them & I reckon that is wrong) Regarding my comments, yep I have only made a few posts here. The general theme is to offer advice & encouragement in my way. It is not like I criticized, my advice was practical & to the point.
Best to get to know me a bit better before the sarcasm....I could care less how helpful he is.

[cdifoto]

Hey csm,

yea thanks for the advice. Have fun with your wedding by the way, I love shooting them myself..........funny thing is you get a forum like this & guys are busting to shoot pro weddings. & then, lots of pros hate weddings (mind you they still shoot them & I reckon that is wrong) Regarding my comments, yep I have only made a few posts here. The general theme is to offer advice & encouragement in my way. It is not like I criticized, my advice was practical & to the point.
Best to get to know me a bit better before the sarcasm....I could care less how helpful he is.

In the words of Tyler Durden: You are not special!


I'm sarcastic to everyone. ;) :)

[csm328]

Hey csm,

yea thanks for the advice. Have fun with your wedding by the way, I love shooting them myself..........funny thing is you get a forum like this & guys are busting to shoot pro weddings. & then, lots of pros hate weddings (mind you they still shoot them & I reckon that is wrong) Regarding my comments, yep I have only made a few posts here. The general theme is to offer advice & encouragement in my way. It is not like I criticized, my advice was practical & to the point.
Best to get to know me a bit better before the sarcasm....I could care less how helpful he is.

But we get to know you by your comments and if you jump all over someone for what you already recognised as 'sarcasm' then it becomes destructive. Nothing wrong with a bit of playful banter. Some of the 'newbies' get really rhiled-up by it. I can see you're not in the 'newb' category but give 'long-timers' a chance to get to know you before you try and beat them at their own game :)