Help! quick answer needed. Lens question for concert photographers.

[shesgotthepic]

I've posted this at Kalle's music photographer forum but also would like to hear your opinions. And yes, I know this should be posted in the lens forum but I want answers from concert photographers.

I walked in to a camera shop in town (James, don't you dare! Besides, it's reserved in my name anyway.... :P ) to ask about a canon 50 1.8 but too my surprise I found a canon 28 - 105 USM 3.5 - 4.5 (which is the same f range as my 50-200 lens), 2nd hand for less than half the new price,. Almost a third of the price.

It is reserved in my name as I want to go in with my own camera and play with it and see what it does, plus bring a friend who already has a lens like that that is brand new so we'll compare the two.

Now, if it passes our test in the shop shall I or shall I not buy it?

The kit lens doesn't have a good f range and the 50-200 I rarely go up to 200 but mostly stick between 50-100 gagging to be able to go wider. The f range has been good enough for me so far.

New this lens goes for £230 but this 2nd hand one is under £100.

Got a shoot on thusday and would be able to grab the lens wednesday when we're testing it and have the evening to play with it.

Decissions decissions!

Help!

Ps. The friend who has one and will come with me on wednesday is a lighting designer in his day job.

[narlus]

for what *I* personally shoot, that lens is far too slow. good focal length range, though.

[Curtis N]

Fast glass is essential for anything under stage lighting.
That means a zoom with a constant f/2.8, or a prime.

[johnstoy]

It retails, new at 219-229 US $....

http://www.adorama.com/Search-Results.tpl?page=searchresults&searchinfo=canon%2028%20-%20105%20USM%203.5%20-%204.5

I own several lenses that I don't use regularly...they are good investments and serve as back ups, only...

A slow F stop lens like this, will be marginally successful at ISO 1600.... It's not one I would bank on as a primary concert venue lens...

I'd first own a 50mm 1.4 and a 85mm 1.8 prime lens for concerts...zooms thereafter, but no slower than F2.8 for zooms...

I just spent a day at a trade show taking pictures of exhibits under the indoor fluorescent lighting... Using a Canon 24-70 F2.8L zoom, I was primarily shooting at a shutter speed of 1/80th, at ISO 1600... There was no room for hand shake...And that's at F2.8... It would only get worse with a slower lens...

[Steve Parr]

As others have alluded to, I would be concerned about the f-stop range. Unless a stage is very well lit (I'm thinking Rolling Stones "lit"), f/3.5 isn't gonna' cut it...

[shesgotthepic]

Yes, I am aware that a faster lens would be better. Now, if you check the threads here where I shot Deep Purple in Cardiff, you'll see what kind of lighting I normally shoot. Those were all with either the kit lens or the 50-200. ISO 100 (some in 1600 but wish I hadn't)

I went back to the shop for another check. The lens is a USM II.

So the speed aside - how is the quality of the lens?

Thanks again for all the input.

[shesgotthepic]

It retails, new at 219-229 US $....


Yeah, that's the thing. It's £ for $ here. A 50 1.8 in US is what? $80? Here its £69 - £89 depending on where you go, which is almost twice the US price.

My lighting buddy bought his 28-105 in US and converted to £ it was about £130. £100 or $200 less then UK prices.

[sspellman]

SGTP-

The reason that using fast lenses is so important is that you will be able to use much faster shutter speeds in low light with a faster aperture. For example- an image with a proper exposure of of 1/100th with a lens at f2.0 is going to give you a shutter speed of 1/25th at f4. The other aspect of that is that if you could use the f4 lens at 1/100 at ISO1600, you could use a f2.0 lens at 1/100th and ISO400. As you can see, the same picture with a faster lens is going to be less blurry due to higher shutter speed or higher quality due to a lower ISO. Most concert. sports, and other low light shooters I know never use a lens slower than 2.8.

-Scott

[shesgotthepic]

SGTP-

The reason that using fast lenses is so important is that you will be able to use much faster shutter speeds in low light with a faster aperture. For example- an image with a proper exposure of of 1/100th with a lens at f2.0 is going to give you a shutter speed of 1/25th at f4. The other aspect of that is that if you could use the f4 lens at 1/100 at ISO1600, you could use a f2.0 lens at 1/100th and ISO400. As you can see, the same picture with a faster lens is going to be less blurry due to higher shutter speed or higher quality due to a lower ISO. Most concert. sports, and other low light shooters I know never use a lens slower than 2.8.

-Scott

I hear you Scott. As much as I don't know about aperture setings v iso (apart from low number being fast on aperture and hi iso fast but noise and thanks for the lesson built in) I'm currently stuck with a kit lens and a 50-200 3.5-4.5. The latter being the one I mostly use at gigs. Even in clubs with very little lights or big gigs.

The way I see it is that the focal lenght on the 28-105 will be of better use and it is a better lens than the 18-55.

Or am I totally stupid?

It would be nice to have a good workhorse lense for everyday use. I am not that happy with the kit lens even for that.

[Frank p]

i have the 28-105.
its a great lens.
excuse the picture its the only one at hand atm
http://a303.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/20/l_18f582405286e6f574928a9a714fa30e.jpg

i know its not the fastest lens but its nicer than the kit lens
unless your going to be shooting in really low light.
Id say go for the 28-105 rather than the 50.

[shesgotthepic]

Found this site with Queensryche pics. SHot with a 300D/rebel and the 28-105.

If that is what it can do it pretty much covers what I need.

http://www.casabrian.com/concerts/queensryche2005/index2.shtml

[shesgotthepic]

i have the 28-105.
its a great lens.
excuse the picture its the only one at hand atm
http://a303.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/20/l_18f582405286e6f574928a9a714fa30e.jpg

i know its not the fastest lens but its nicer than the kit lens
unless your going to be shooting in really low light.
Id say go for the 28-105 rather than the 50.

Nice! What iso is it in? Got any exif data?

[Frank p]

shutter 1/40
aperture 3.5
ISO 1600
Focal length 28mm

It was just a joke shot i sent the band whilst i was finishing the rest of the pics off.
They entitled it "shagcore"
I dont get these hardcore kids :)

[tipsy]

LCE Cheltenham i take it she?

Certainly a nice lens to use, i used to have one, but when i sold it and saved up a little extra to buy my 24-70 f2.8 it was well worth it. if you can hold off till you can afford one of these i would! it's a workhorse lens like you want, but perfect for gigs too!

i've also got the 50/1.8 prime and thats a great budget lens for concerts.

x

[shesgotthepic]

LCE Cheltenham i take it she?



Spot on!

It's not your old lens, is it?

She

[livewire-photography.com]

You gott love that shop lol

[tipsy]

Ha, no it's not my old lens, i got rid a while ago to my dads friend in york. I guess it could have migrated this far south...

Did buy a battery grip for my old rebel from there though, nice chap.
x

[Ballen Photo]

So the speed aside - how is the quality of the lens?It's a good lens that enjoys a very good reputation as a daylight walk around lens. I have one that I bought many years ago as an upgrade from the kit lens that would have come with my Elan IIe film camera. I still like it. ;)
-Bruce

[johnstoy]

Hand held shutter speeds of less than your heart rate... lets say, lower than approx. 1/60th, are risky... cause you might have at least one heart beat, if not two occurring while holding the camera steady...

That's not to mention, getting bumped...getting the coffee shakes...or just fatigue, from holding the camera steady... all these factors lessen the conversion/success rate...

EDIT: Strictly as a monetary investment, and a daytime lens... it seems to be a bargain...

[narlus]

Hand held shutter speeds of less than your heart rate... lets say, lower than approx. 1/60th, are risky... cause you might have at least one heart beat, if not two occurring while holding the camera steady...

you gotta shoot some shows w/ me sometime. :D

[johnstoy]

you gotta shoot some shows w/ me sometime. :D

Narlus, are you kidding me?.. I drink so much coffee at these events to stay awake, that I can't keep the camera steady even at 1/125th... Your venue events are too speedy for me... so much action packed into an evening would be pretty tough to for me to keep up with...

There are some places around here in PA I can back track to... my old hang out places... resort night clubs, restaurants... taverns... beer joints... there are dozens of these places in the Poconos with real good live (several times per week) entertainment... I just can't handle the drinking and the smoke anymore...:D

[shesgotthepic]

You gott love that shop lol


Dude, this is silly. How about a coffee some day? We're in the same town, fercryinoutloud!

Or a beer at the frog or down at Rail Way or Tailors or Slaks.

She

[tipsy]

Dude, this is silly. How about a coffee some day? We're in the same town, fercryinoutloud!

Or a beer at the frog or down at Rail Way or Tailors or Slaks.

She

I just rememberd- All Saints Road- Thats my honerary base in chelternam. i couldnt remember the name of the road before.

i wont give out the number for security reasons- i dont want james going to try and hit on my lady friend.

x

[bacchanal]

Hand held shutter speeds of less than your heart rate... lets say, lower than approx. 1/60th, are risky... cause you might have at least one heart beat, if not two occurring while holding the camera steady...

That's exactly why I stopped doing speed before shooting concerts. Well, off to the gym...got to get my resting heart rate below 40.

....No seriously though, the 28-105 is probably a versatile walk around lens and may well be worth picking up at a decent price, but imho (not that it matters) every concert shooter should have a prime or two in their bag.

[shesgotthepic]

That's exactly why I stopped doing speed before shooting concerts. Well, off to the gym...got to get my resting heart rate below 40.

....No seriously though, the 28-105 is probably a versatile walk around lens and may well be worth picking up at a decent price, but imho (not that it matters) every concert shooter should have a prime or two in their bag.

Yeah, I agree with you. A prime or two is what I eventually want. Got to start somewhere, though. With any luck, might pick up a prime as well.... in the not too distant future.

As for heart rate. Once scared the cr*p out of an ER ward when I woke up with a suspected apendicities and a morning pulse of 48. At the time, twice my age. Then again last summer (20 years later) at a health check at a gym directly after having done 1x10 of all the stuff that was to be in my workout program and my pulse was 50. I think I can do a 1/60. Unless I wake up with a pulse doing 108, as I did a few years ago. That scared the life out of me when I 4 days later was in an ambulance with a heart monitor and all.

Life in the fast lane.

[jhacker]

i have the 28-105.
its a great lens.
excuse the picture its the only one at hand atm
http://a303.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/20/l_18f582405286e6f574928a9a714fa30e.jpg

i know its not the fastest lens but its nicer than the kit lens
unless your going to be shooting in really low light.
Id say go for the 28-105 rather than the 50.

With a shutter of 1/40, i'd say this shot barely made it. It came out great, but it would be impossible to capture action shots in this setting - with ISO at 1600 already and the aperture as wide as possible. Those settings are probably at the maximum for getting possible shots if the artists are still. If you definitely want a concert lens, I would say 1.8 prime. I have a 50mm f/1.8 and it's a fantastic concert lens. I'm thinking about adding an 85mm f/1.8 as well to get in a little bit closer. The only thing a zoom would really do for me is let me get in close to the drummer.

[narlus]

for me, zooms allow me to get much wider. w/o a fisheye, on a crop body the widest and fastest prime i know of is either the uber-pricey canon 24L or the sigma 20...both are spendy. my 30 is the widest prime option in my bag, and that's not very wide. i do like being able to drop to 17 on occasion, esp on the fly.

[shesgotthepic]

Well, I got it. (no surprise there, right?) My buddy said it even had smoother focus action then his USM II that is a month old.

Should have given it a dress rehearsal tonight at the jazz festival but at the last minute was told that the photo passes that had been promised to both of us were suddenly denied. Buddy is a rigger at the gig. Sais a lot at how strict they were at this one.

Oh well, straight in to full live action tomorrow.

I'm tempted to pick up the 70-300 3.5-5.6 USM. Could be of good use at equestrian events. But that is a whole different forum all together.

/she

[tipsy]

next buy- 70-200 2.8 IS USM. Blatently...
x

[tipsy]

:evil: p.s cheltenham drivers are really bad- someone took my wing mirror off whilst i was parked there last night.

x

[Lilrichie]

I am going to be using my 50mm 1.8 Prime at the next live performance iam shooting.

[tipsy]

it's a nice lens, im sure youll have fun with it!

x

[shesgotthepic]

:evil: p.s cheltenham drivers are really bad- someone took my wing mirror off whilst i was parked there last night.

x

Around midnight, wednesday, there was a highspeed police car chase right through were I live. The car they were chasing drove on three wheels and a rim. I had *just* pulled up on the curb when it skidded past me, followed by 2 police cars who a block later were joined by another 2 and the helicopter with searchlights.

And my camera was no where near me.

[blackshadow]

And my camera was no where near me.

Don't you hate that!

[tipsy]

i generally always carry some form of camera with me, usually my trusty lomo.

Now however, off to shoot my first ever wedding. crazy stuff!

Bye bye performing arts people.
x

[blackshadow]

Now however, off to shoot my first ever wedding. crazy stuff!

Bye bye performing arts people.
x

You'll be back... trust me!