How do you protect your equipment the in urban jungle?

[robinpow]

How do you protect your equipment the in urban jungle?

I'm not talking about those nice safe, tourist locations where the only thing you worry about is a pickpocket. I'm talking about going a few blocks off the tourist path... where the real photos are.

I'm no where close to being a pro, however people often think I am, because I have an SLR with a zoom lens.

I have a Lowepro backpack, that I like because it keeps my hand free, however I've been warned not to use it, because the average bad guy will just cut it and steel the contents. When I carry my shoulder bag, I'm in fear of someone just grabbing it off my shoulder and running.

In some places I've been lucky enough to hire a driver that could double as a body guard, however sometimes I'm just on my own.

I do the 'eye contact' thing, try to keep an eye on surroundings, listen to that 'little voice', and try to blend in. However, there are places in the world where you can't blend in.

Would love to hear some tips.

[Hermeto]

Insurance company that I personally trust the most is often called Beretta M9. ;)
Other people might prefer something else..

[tzalman]

First off, the shoulder bag strap is always across my body, not on my shoulder. Second, it helps to have a bag that doesn't scream, "Expensive stuff here!". I would never, for instance, use a bag with the Canon logo on it. Back in my student days I used an old WW II surplus gas mask bag. Old, ratty and stained, perfect camouflage. Of course, the camera has to come out of the bag eventually and that is when problems might start, but no solution will ever be 100%.

[calicokat]

Insurance company that I personally trust the most is often called Beretta M9. ;)
Other people might prefer something else..

i am with you on this one :eek:

[Pete]

Don't use a LowePro backpack. Crims will see that name in just the same way as they see white ear-buds and know you've got an iPod.

Plain old common sense says not to have anything that looks expensive on show. Wear old clothes, use an old backpack. Take your camera out only as long as it takes to get the shot and then move off again.

[csm328]

Cheapest place in the world to buy used canon gear is south-east asia. why? because they're good at stealing it from you no matter what precautions you take. They 'team' you, hand it off and before you know it, it's for sale in a pawn shop ready for you to buy it back. They will even tell you where it is! Don't bother with the police, the only way you'll get them to do the paperwork is with a cash bribe, and the only reason you need the paperwork is for your insurance claim.

Here's what you do: if you HAVE to go then take only what you need. Try to go with a buddy or pay for a 'guide'. Pay him $100 up front and another $100.00 when you get done for the day. The $200.00 you pay a guide gets split. He takes some and the local mafia take some to leave you alone. If you get the right person, you're pretty much protected. Always wear a backpack with the waist strap secured. A nice strong front clip is a good choice. Padlock your zips and if you can, place something sturdy into the slot for your laptop. Makes it harder for a 'slash and run'. Never carry a weapon. It's the first thing they look for and they will ALL bring theirs. Finally, don't let anyone else hold your camera gear other than your guide. He has a vested interest in nothing happening to you or your gear. If he says that 'we need to leave' then you do as you're told.

Variations on the above information will work for anywhere you go. At the end of the day, if it all goes sour, hand it all over and walk away. In some countries, your life means nothing but the money they can get for your camera gear will feed their family for a month.

[Jim7226]

Insurance company that I personally trust the most is often called Beretta M9. ;)
Other people might prefer something else..

Yup, mine's a Glock 27. ;)

[calicokat]

From a law enforcement stand-point, do not go into areas where this is a possibility. Keep the odds on your side, stay in well lit and well populated areas, listen to that little voice in your head when something seems off or unsafe

[gjl711]

Only bring what you’re willing to loose. Get a rider on your homeowners/renters insurance for full replacement cost. This was suggested by someone else several months back and I was amazed at how inexpensive it was to add the equipment into my insurance. That way if it is stolen, you’re covered. I would dissuade anyone from actually bringing in a firearm into potentially hostile situation unless you’re willing to keep it at the ready. A gun in your bag is going to do you no good and if you were actually in a situation and used it, the consequences will most likely be much more severe and expensive than the couple of grand you have invested in camera gear.

[bobinatcat]

sounds like you have some experience here! interesting poiint of view.

Cheapest place in the world to buy used canon gear is south-east asia. why? because they're good at stealing it from you no matter what precautions you take. They 'team' you, hand it off and before you know it, it's for sale in a pawn shop ready for you to buy it back. They will even tell you where it is! Don't bother with the police, the only way you'll get them to do the paperwork is with a cash bribe, and the only reason you need the paperwork is for your insurance claim.

Here's what you do: if you HAVE to go then take only what you need. Try to go with a buddy or pay for a 'guide'. Pay him $100 up front and another $100.00 when you get done for the day. The $200.00 you pay a guide gets split. He takes some and the local mafia take some to leave you alone. If you get the right person, you're pretty much protected. Always wear a backpack with the waist strap secured. A nice strong front clip is a good choice. Padlock your zips and if you can, place something sturdy into the slot for your laptop. Makes it harder for a 'slash and run'. Never carry a weapon. It's the first thing they look for and they will ALL bring theirs. Finally, don't let anyone else hold your camera gear other than your guide. He has a vested interest in nothing happening to you or your gear. If he says that 'we need to leave' then you do as you're told.

Variations on the above information will work for anywhere you go. At the end of the day, if it all goes sour, hand it all over and walk away. In some countries, your life means nothing but the money they can get for your camera gear will feed their family for a month.

[bsmotril]

Yup, mine's a Glock 27. ;)
I don't know about the self defense laws in your state, but in mine, if you use deadly force to stop a property crime where you were not first threatened with deadly force, or attempted to retreat first (will change with new law), then you will be the one in jail if you shoot the perp. You also really have to ask yourself the question; are you ready to take someone's life over a camera, and then fight the likely civil legal battles the survivors will bring to you over the next 10 years? I am licensed to carry a concealed weapon, and do daily. But under those circumstances, the perp is getting my camera. The exception would be if they first use deadly force on me. And even then, I'm not drawing down on someone with a gun already pointed at me, that is suicide. Carrying a weapon is pretty worthless unless you've first prepared yourself mentally for the various scenarios that might present itself. And if you've made the mental committment, you darn better make sure you're prepared legally and financially for the outcome.

[csm328]

I don't know about the self defense laws in your state, but in mine, if you use deadly force to stop a property crime where you were not first threatened with deadly force, or attempted to retreat first (will change with new law), then you will be the one in jail if you shoot the perp. You also really have to ask yourself the question; are you ready to take someone's life over a camera, and then fight the likely civil legal battles the survivors will bring to you over the next 10 years? I am licensed to carry a concealed weapon, and do daily. But under those circumstances, the perp is getting my camera. The exception would be if they first use deadly force on me. And even then, I'm not drawing down on someone with a gun already pointed at me, that is suicide. Carrying a weapon is pretty worthless unless you've first prepared yourself mentally for the various scenarios that might present itself. And if you've made the mental committment, you darn better make sure you're prepared legally and financially for the outcome.

I think the topic was referring to non-USA locations that are either 3rd world or on the fringe.

[Gr8outdrsmn]

I carry an ASP, a good size pocket folding knife, a easisly concealed fixed blade knife, and (not to brag) but I can run faster and further than most of the people that would be attempting stealing my goods. Plus, I am a big guy 6'5 and in pretty good shape, so it's not likely anyone is going to mess with me. Now, when they decide to group up on me, i dont have a freaking clue what i am going to do :lol: .

[KCMO Al]

I think the topic was referring to non-USA locations that are either 3rd world or on the fringe.

1. Hermeto - Beretta M9 - Toronto, Canada
2. CalicoKat - agreed on the Beretta, - S. Cal, USA
3. Jim7226 - Glock 27 - Minneapolis, USA
4. Gr8outdrsman - Knife - SE USA

Not exactly 3rd world locations (some may have other opinions on this)

Ironically, bsmotril, who brought up the legal ramifications of using your weapons is from Austin, TX. I thought it was mandatory to carry a gun in Texas? And didn't Florida just pass a law saying it was within everyone's right to shoot to kill if you felt "threatened?"

[René Damkot]

At the end of the day, if it all goes sour, hand it all over and walk away.

Best advise yet IMO.

[csm328]

1. Hermeto - Beretta M9 - Toronto, Canada
2. CalicoKat - agreed on the Beretta, - S. Cal, USA
3. Jim7226 - Glock 27 - Minneapolis, USA
4. Gr8outdrsman - Knife - SE USA

Not exactly 3rd world locations (some may have other opinions on this)

Ironically, bsmotril, who brought up the legal ramifications of using your weapons is from Austin, TX. I thought it was mandatory to carry a gun in Texas? And didn't Florida just pass a law saying it was within everyone's right to shoot to kill if you felt "threatened?"

You missed my point. The whole point of the thread is for when you're travelling OUTSIDE the USA into more dangerous locations and what to do to keep yourself safe. You can carry what you want in your own country. Although in some parts of NYC, Miami, Virginia, every state in the USA I guess, bad areas are common. In a foreign country, you'd be well versed to know their laws.

[Walrus]

Best defense is to be part of a crowd. Go out with several friends. Wear old clothes. Blend in. DO NOT wear a branded pack that says CANON or LOWEPRO or TAMRAC on it. Use an old diaper bag. You get a lot of bag for the money.

Oh yeah, have insurance.

[BottomBracket]

In most parts of the world, you just can't pack a gun if you're a tourist. I'm with the blend in gang here. Keep your camera equipment simple and inconspicuous. Tape over those bright canon logos with black electric or gaffer's tape. Use a small lens, street photographs are best taken with a wide angle lens, not a white long zoom anyway. Use a scruffy camera strap instead of a brand new one. If you can, use a compact camera - G-series makes a great travel camera - in places where you're not comfortable. And I agree with the advice that when someone demands your camera, and you have no way out, hand it over. No camera is worth your life.

[Hermeto]

Well, I’d rather put it the other way around: No scumbag’s life is worth my camera.

[BottomBracket]

Agreed. Your life is worth more though.

[Hermeto]

My life is worth because - between other things - it encompasses a certain level of dignity, self-respect and ability to fight back when attacked.

Without these, its value drops significantly..

[BottomBracket]

Best of luck off the tourist path.

[Hermeto]

Thank you!

[robinpow]

Love the insurance idea, I didn't even think to see if it would cover me when I'm traveling.

38 S&W (with hollow points) is my weapon of choice, know how & know when. However, my travels do NOT fall within those limits.

Didn't think of Lowpro being a red flag. Guess that's the rookie in me. I was in South East Asia, and needed a backpack for those mini hikes (non city). Went to a camera shop, it was fairly cheap... never thought of it being a brand name.

"only bring what you're willing to loose" That dog just won't hunt, I don't have much and not really willing to loose any of it. On the other hand, me vs. gear.... the gear will loose every time.

Like the old backpack idea, however I don't think I would blend. On younger folks it looks very natural, but grandma with funky backpack looks funny. The diaper bag, might be closer... might try doing a spin on that. Mature ladies with over sized handbags over the chest is a common look.

Good point on the short lens, it's true I very seldom use the big lens in the city.

Hanging out with friends, is many times impossible, since I often travel alone.

I do dress non-American, when I traveling. As long as I keep my mouth shut I'm often mistaken for being European or Aussie.
For those of you who haven't done much world travel... it true, you can spot the average American a mile off.

Thanks EVERYONE for the suggestions. Think it's time to go shopping for a new bag. ;-)

[DizzyV6P]

A Taser can also be your friend ;)

http://www2.taser.com/products/consumers/Pages/default.aspx

The new C2 model fits easily into a fanny pack or purse.

Thanks for the advice on the name on the bag issue. I'll be hitting Paris and Barcelona, plus a med cruise in August and was originally going to get the Adventure 9. Anyone else have a better idea for a bag?
Thanks!

[TeeJay]

... I'll be hitting Paris and Barcelona, plus a med cruise in August...

Although Barcelona is a very beautiful city, it is in the top five places in the world for bag snatches. Just make sure you hang onto your gear.

TJ

[sans2012]

Well I'm getting out the knife and cutting the LowePro logo off my back. I might even pull the insides of my 400D out and try to put them into a disposable job while I'm at it.

This is the Urban Gorilla Photog part of the site right? Damn, I have no guns.

[Jim7226]

You also really have to ask yourself the question; are you ready to take someone's life over a camera...

With all due respect to your position, when a person chooses a life of crime they must also accept the risks associated with that behavior. If you're carrying a means to defend yourself and your property but choose not to use it...then I suggest you ask yourself why you are even carrying a gun in the first place. Makes no sense to me. If you don't intervene at the appropriate time you run the greater risk of the thief taking your camera AND your gun which would be a very bad situation to be in. Just my $0.02.

[csm328]

It's interesting how Americans view weapon carriage. It's vastly different in other areas of the world. In Australia, if you're carrying a weapon in the 'urban jungle' you're either law enforcement or a criminal (generally speaking of course). In the USA, if you're in the 'urban jungle' without a weapon, you're the minority (I currently reside in Newport News, VA). Two totally different standpoints of countries that are not only allys, but share the same culture, morals, ideaology, ethics etc. Very interesting.

[packet]

I take off all the logos on my bags. The less they look like camera gear, the better. The one I've been using a while is nicely worn in and tends to blend somewhat well. I haven't bothered taping over the logos on the camera though. It's a big SLR and there's not that much you can do to hide the fact. Only take out the camera when you're ready to shoot, and put it back as soon as you're done. Zip and clip all flaps on the bag when they're not being used, and be sure to hang on to it. Make sure you're aware of your surroundings and you should be ok in most situations.

[packet]

It's interesting how Americans view weapon carriage. It's vastly different in other areas of the world. In Australia, if you're carrying a weapon in the 'urban jungle' you're either law enforcement or a criminal (generally speaking of course). In the USA, if you're in the 'urban jungle' without a weapon, you're the minority (I currently reside in Newport News, VA). Two totally different standpoints of countries that are not only allys, but share the same culture, morals, ideaology, ethics etc. Very interesting.

That depends on what part of the US you're in. I don't carry a gun and don't plan on carrying one any time soon. If the theif wants my camera and has a weapon, they can have it. The gear is insured and it's not worth risking my life over some posessions. Besides, I've been all over the place with my camera equipment and haven't had any major problems. In Rome once I had a guy try to pickpocket me, but he didn't get anything and a gun wouldn't have done anything in that situation anyways.

[gjl711]

It's interesting how Americans view weapon carriage. It's vastly different in other areas of the world. In Australia, if you're carrying a weapon in the 'urban jungle' you're either law enforcement or a criminal (generally speaking of course). In the USA, if you're in the 'urban jungle' without a weapon, you're the minority (I currently reside in Newport News, VA). Two totally different standpoints of countries that are not only allys, but share the same culture, morals, ideaology, ethics etc. Very interesting.
Neither statement is true. Americans are free to think how they choose and are all over the map from those that believe that everyone should be equipped with M1 tanks to those that believe that walking on grass is cruel to plants. There is no single viewpoint. As to all in the city carrying guns, once again a myth. Sure they are there, but most are in the hands of law enforcement and criminals and gang bangers. Some are also in the hands of law abiding citizens but I’ll bet not many. I think too many form their judgments on movies and the media. Both sensationalize everything and neither is real life.

[acorean]

First off, the shoulder bag strap is always across my body, not on my shoulder. Second, it helps to have a bag that doesn't scream, "Expensive stuff here!". I would never, for instance, use a bag with the Canon logo on it. Back in my student days I used an old WW II surplus gas mask bag. Old, ratty and stained, perfect camouflage. Of course, the camera has to come out of the bag eventually and that is when problems might start, but no solution will ever be 100%.

I have to both agree and disagree here. I have the Canon 200EG (I cut the Canon tag and riipped off the metal logo, however, if you look out of place, a good thief is going to stalk his prey. Once that camera comes out of your bag, regardsless of how ratty it is, he knows whats inside.

I guess the third world back streets are not someplace I'll be shooting anytime soon. How about Europe? I'm traveling to London, Paris, and Rome and am looking for a good back to haul my gear in (see sig)? Or even a metropolitan US city such as Boston, New York, Chicago, LA? What are your experiences with these different locations and what precautions should you take?

I'm from Boston and feel very at home in the city but I do have a different attitude about it if I'm carrying my gear. Am I paranoid or is this justified?

[csm328]

Neither statement is true. Americans are free to think how they choose and are all over the map from those that believe that everyone should be equipped with M1 tanks to those that believe that walking on grass is cruel to plants. There is no single viewpoint. As to all in the city carrying guns, once again a myth. Sure they are there, but most are in the hands of law enforcement and criminals and gang bangers. Some are also in the hands of law abiding citizens but I’ll bet not many. I think too many form their judgments on movies and the media. Both sensationalize everything and neither is real life.

The fact is that I currently live in the USA; therefore, I'm telling you what I see. Being military, I think I can determine which areas of urban jungle are dangerous and which are not. The ones I see here on a daily basis, people carry guns. Pure and simple. I wasn't referring to all Americans as that is obviously not the case but my point was, the American viewpoint on gun ownership and carriage is different. Nothing more or less. Come on, the right to bare arms is in your constitution!! lol

And you're wrong when you say that most of the guns belong to law enforcement or criminals. Again, from my personal experience in your great country, I'd say the law abiding citizens carrying guns (either in thier car/truck/boat or on their person) far exceeds crims and police. Why do you think that at every traffic stop, a patrolman will approach from the rear in your blindspot and ask for you to place your hands on the wheel? It's because they also know the statistics. ;) Your experience may have been different. Mine has not.

[packet]

I have to both agree and disagree here. I have the Canon 200EG (I cut the Canon tag and riipped off the metal logo, however, if you look out of place, a good thief is going to stalk his prey. Once that camera comes out of your bag, regardsless of how ratty it is, he knows whats inside.

I guess the third world back streets are not someplace I'll be shooting anytime soon. How about Europe? I'm traveling to London, Paris, and Rome and am looking for a good back to haul my gear in (see sig)? Or even a metropolitan US city such as Boston, New York, Chicago, LA? What are your experiences with these different locations and what precautions should you take?

I'm from Boston and feel very at home in the city but I do have a different attitude about it if I'm carrying my gear. Am I paranoid or is this justified?

Get something without a big Canon logo on it and you'll be fine. The biggest problem you will have in Europe is someone stealing the bag while you're not looking. I still remove the tags to be safe, but I've never had a problem in Europe. 99% of it isn't any worse than Boston.

[acorean]

Get something without a big Canon logo on it and you'll be fine. The biggest problem you will have in Europe is someone stealing the bag while you're not looking. I still remove the tags to be safe, but I've never had a problem in Europe. 99% of it isn't any worse than Boston.

My bag NEVER comes off when I'm out and about. If it does, someone I'm with holds it for me. I try to never let my guard down.

[DizzyV6P]

So wearing the Black POTN photog vest would probably be a bad idea as well? From the pictures on the site, one would seem to look like some sort of paramilitary than a photographer. Do think that would deter theives?

[bsmotril]

With all due respect to your position, when a person chooses a life of crime they must also accept the risks associated with that behavior. If you're carrying a means to defend yourself and your property but choose not to use it...then I suggest you ask yourself why you are even carrying a gun in the first place. Makes no sense to me. If you don't intervene at the appropriate time you run the greater risk of the thief taking your camera AND your gun which would be a very bad situation to be in. Just my $0.02.

I apologize for taking this off track from the original posters question, but go back and read my post, you missed the point. I carry for defense of my life, and that of my family. That is the only reason. Property has nothing to do with it, especially outside my own home. If you choose to do otherwise, that is your choice. I suggest though, that you first become familiar with the specific statutes and laws where you do carry, and know the specific circumstances where use of deadly force can be a defense to your own prosecution should you choose to use deadly force. Where I carry, I would be the one facing charges if I used deadly force to only defend my property (unless the thief used a knife or gun in the process, then it is NOT a property crime). Learning these statutes is one of the key focus items of the training required by the permitting process. The other focus items are blending in, situational awareness, and avoiding and defusing confrontations.

To put this back into the photographer's realm, and towards the original question; there's been a lot of good information put up here in this thread, and I'll certainly benefit from it. I would never carry a weapon on a tourist visa in a foreign country and risk the nightmare that would result from getting caught. IF worst came to happen, as much as I'd hate to do it, my tripod, or even my Camera, would my weapon if needed. I'd imaging getting whacked with a 70-200 zoom would do someone a bit of damage.

[Southswede]

I don't know about the self defense laws in your state, but in mine, if you use deadly force to stop a property crime where you were not first threatened with deadly force, or attempted to retreat first (will change with new law), then you will be the one in jail if you shoot the perp. You also really have to ask yourself the question; are you ready to take someone's life over a camera, and then fight the likely civil legal battles the survivors will bring to you over the next 10 years? I am licensed to carry a concealed weapon, and do daily. But under those circumstances, the perp is getting my camera. The exception would be if they first use deadly force on me. And even then, I'm not drawing down on someone with a gun already pointed at me, that is suicide. Carrying a weapon is pretty worthless unless you've first prepared yourself mentally for the various scenarios that might present itself. And if you've made the mental committment, you darn better make sure you're prepared legally and financially for the outcome.

Robbery is not a property crime in ANY State, including Texas. And robbery is what we ARE talking about here. The question is not if you are willing to take someone's life over a camera. The question is if they are willing to die, over my camera. See, it's mine. I bought it with my hard earned money. I have a right to keep it. Nobody has the right to take it from me-PERIOD!

Self defense requires the same requirements for cops and citizens alike: ability, opportunity and jeopardy, before the use of deadly force is used. (I know. I'm a street cop and firearms teacher.) This is a question each person has to answer for themselves.

As for the OP's question, I carry a gun, at all times. And I only carry the equipment I will use. It makes life a lot easier.

[Southswede]

My life is worth because - between other things - it encompasses a certain level of dignity, self-respect and ability to fight back when attacked.

Without these, its value drops significantly..

I like the way you think!

[david lee]

Here in the UK we dont need Guns to protect our Gear.
Just an angry word, spoken quietly...

[sans2012]

OK, I ripped up my bag - took every logo off and wrapped it in camo netting. Spray painted my 400D (camo style) and the lenses. Now I just got to print up my new photography t-shirt "You think my lens is big? You should see the gun in my pocket!", and I'm set.

CSM328: You got street wise bro!;)

[packet]

My bag NEVER comes off when I'm out and about. If it does, someone I'm with holds it for me. I try to never let my guard down.

I'll stop by a cafe or something and take my bag off, but the zippers are all shut and my leg goes through the strap.

[FishFish]

buff up those biceps and triceps
hahah





get ready to beat someone up or atleast try...

don't act rich.
in the philippines. people will snatch ur backpack like it cost their lives.
be greasyyy. not clean well groomed looking..
keeps people's attention away from u.

[Thornfield]

When it comes to self defence I'm a firm believer in the theory that it's "Better to be tried by 12, than to be carried by 6" . As for the gear, if they really want it they will get it. Either they will take it when your not looking, take it with force or follow you home and break in when you're not home. Besides, as long as it's insured you end up with new gear that's all nice and shiny :)

[acorean]

I'll stop by a cafe or something and take my bag off, but the zippers are all shut and my leg goes through the strap.

Great minds think alike :D

[Gidi Morris]

Yup, mine's a Glock 27. ;)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought your not allowed to walk around with a pistal in the US. Only at home, no?

Anyway, mine will soon be a Glock 17, and at the moment an m-16A1 Assult rifle (but thats getting a little heavy, so I want to get a pistal instead) :p
Offcourse the Army Lieutenant uniform dosn't hurt either ;)

[gjl711]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought your not allowed to walk around with a pistal in the US. Only at home, no? Chicago has some of the toughest gun laws in the country requiring a permit for just about anything. It also has the most murders committed with guns. Seems gun laws does not equal less killings with guns.

[Gidi Morris]

Here in Israel you are only allowed to have a pistol if you fall into on of these categories:
1. Policeman
2. Civil guard
3. Soldier in the IDF <-- Only on active duty
4. Officer in the IDF <-- Even when your not an active officer. This is where I fall in.

[TrulyAlaskan]

1. Hermeto - Beretta M9 - Toronto, Canada
2. CalicoKat - agreed on the Beretta, - S. Cal, USA
3. Jim7226 - Glock 27 - Minneapolis, USA
4. Gr8outdrsman - Knife - SE USA

Not exactly 3rd world locations (some may have other opinions on this)

Ironically, bsmotril, who brought up the legal ramifications of using your weapons is from Austin, TX. I thought it was mandatory to carry a gun in Texas? And didn't Florida just pass a law saying it was within everyone's right to shoot to kill if you felt "threatened?"


TrulyAlaskan - .45 Long Colt (Bear Protection,) .357 Mag (People Protection) - Anchorage AK

[Hangbot]

I use 4 things:

1. Instead of my regular camera bags, I take the photo insert out of my Lowepro and put it in a regular backpack. Fits perfectly and no one suspects it of having anything of value in it.

2. Avoiding eye contact? Never. I am aware of the people around me, and I'll let them know it.

3. Brass knuckles. In my pocket whenever I'm using a white lens.

4. My camera is a weapon. I'd rather break my camera using it to smash someone in the face, than have it stolen altogether.

They may sound harsh, but live and learn:)

[TrulyAlaskan]

I use 4 things:

1. Instead of my regular camera bags, I take the photo insert out of my Lowepro and put it in a regular backpack. Fits perfectly and no one suspects it of having anything of value in it.

2. Avoiding eye contact? Never. I am aware of the people around me, and I'll let them know it.

3. Brass knuckles. In my pocket whenever I'm using a white lens.

4. My camera is a weapon. I'd rather break my camera using it to smash someone in the face, than have it stolen altogether.

They may sound harsh, but live and learn:)


You sir are EVIL! :twisted: But, I totally agree. I like the idea of switching out the lowpro inserts....

[milorad]

I'd be mortified to be proven wrong, but I suspect half the posts here about packing heat are just talk.... the other half scare the sh!t out of me.

I'm just not sure why you'd want to give someone a reason to kill you. Your gun just means they'll come with 4 of their own. If they really want it, they'll get it... especially in underprivileged countries. I'm convinced that you'd end up with half your face missing, by the time you drop your camera and reach for your piece.

Lets hope you never have to test that theory.

There was some great advice for travellers on the first page of this thread. The only thing I'd add to that is to turn everything into a conversation if you have the chance (obviously something done abroad, not in your developed country). "give me your bag" turns into "can I pay you to pose for a picture?"... if that doesn't work, just hand the damned thing over. There's more glass where that came from, but I bet mostly they'll just be looking to get some food.

[Sparky98]

First off I would never go alone to an area where I felt threatened. As a hobbyist no shot is worth being injured or killed and as an older, bald, overweight, white man there are some places where I am a target because I could never blend in. If I had a concealed carry permit taking a gun into those areas wouldn't help because in most instances I would be contending with a gang and not an individual.

I would never carry a weapon across a state line unless I knew the gun laws in the next state. Concealed carry permits are not necessarily honored from state to state and I would never carry a weapon to another country. I know that if you are caught in Mexico with a gun you are in deep trouble. Also, I have heard that Canada frowns on taking a gun into their country. Many countries in this world do not allow the posession of a hand gun and you could spend a lot of time in their prison system if caught.

In my opinion the safest thing to to do is always be part of a group and that doesn't mean you and your spouse. If you are a hobbyist and feel threatened in an area then you need to get out of there quickly. If you are a pro then that is a different story. A pro often risks life and limb to get the shot they want and they are willing to take whatever risk is necessary to get that shot.

Before you go to an area you should consider the risks and if you feel threatened then you have to decide if the shot is worth the risk. Everyone has a different level of risk they are willing to expose themself to and you have to decide for yourself what you are willing to chance.

[RobNYC]

To set the record straight in one area... some say "in the urban jungle" you should carry a gun or many people carry a gun. The problem is, in some of the most dangerous "urban jungles," it is true that only the police are lawfully allowed to carry a gun. In New York City and Washington, D.C., for example, there is no carry permit. Carry permits in NYC are rarely ever issued. In NYC there are many categories of carry permits, such as those issued to the guards on armored trucks carrying cash. They can only carry while working and not any other time (to and from work might be ok too). There is no general permit. So anyone other than a cop carrying, IS a criminal just by carrying. If you have a permit in NJ and bring your gun into NY, you are a criminal because you violated NY's laws and will got locked up if discovered.

Every state, and every city, is different. So if you are going to do something, my point really... just be careful. Know the law and don't get hurt or locked up for a camera. I agree in using self-defense when the time comes, but just be careful.

[single_track]

I travel all over the world for non-photo work. I usually bring my gear and try to make time for shooting. I always shoot alone, often at night. I am a pretty big guy. I try to get off the beaten paths for better shots and often at night. I find myself at docks, in alleys, on back streets, red light districts, markets, etc. A few of the things I do.

- Cover the canon logos with black tape. Not sure of this helps or not but hiding the 'expensive gear' logos makes me feel better. I hate how my 70-200/f4 IS lens stands out, but I also like the shots I get.
- Same with packs. First thing to come off are the lowpro or tamrac logos that scream 'expensive gear'
- I have a tamrac strap with q-disconnect clips. I used glue to make the connections permanent. I did this just before for my Bangkok trip. Great strap but I did not want to offer a quick get-away.
- I carry a monopod (even if I don't plan on using it like at nite). Makes a nice club with the cast aluminum swivel head on it and can intimidate would-be thugs. Usually clipped to my belt when not is use. A few times I put away the camera and held the monopod to send a clear message.
- I frequently use a think tank urban disguise cuz it looks generic and it works really well. I strongly prefer a shoulder bag to backpack in urban areas. Quicker, safer and keeps the gear in front of me. I do not like putting a backpack down to change lenses, or leaving it on my bag, especially in crowds.
- I also like the UD bag because I keep my photo gear with me at business meetings rather than leaving it in the hotel room. Otherwise the body and good lenses go in the room safe.
- Bag never gets put down unless I sit for a bite, when the bag sits right in front of me. Even then I use a caribiner to clip the bag to me or a chair (slows the grab and run).
- For street work, I tend to carry the camera over my shoulder, behind my arm hiding it from view btu tucked in tight. This is more to avoid early detection of candid shots. I usually leave it in the bag in Tough areas to avoid advertising that I have it.
- I try to dress locally and blend into crowds rather than standing out as a tourist. I also try to look like a savvy professional; scan, set up, shoot, move on rather than the wandering lost look. I think it helps to look experienced, and sure of yourself.
- I also believe that I am very observant. Watch for people watching you. Watch for guys or groups of guys that follow you and look you over. I have had folks follow me and check out my gear in Bangkok, Italy, Ireland, New Orleans, and Paris. May have been nothing but why push it. If I am being watched or followed, I quickly diffuse the situation, generally with a quick exit.

If some one wants the gear bad enough and I cannot exit, escape or diffuse, I will simply hand it over avoiding further trouble. Insurance will cover most of the loss.

[61ache]

Get insurance and don't worry about it. At the end of the day, it's a camera. It's not worth your life, or anyone else's. I think its all of 10-50 bucks a year to insure.

[TrulyAlaskan]

I'd be mortified to be proven wrong, but I suspect half the posts here about packing heat are just talk.... the other half scare the sh!t out of me.

This goes back to where you're from. I "pack heat" because of the wildlife that I encounter. You want to walk around up here without some protection, be my guest. I'll stand back and watch.... with my camera. I am 100% against hunting, but I like my life. Thankfully I have never had to use any weapon that I carry, but if I was down to my last resort, I'd have no problems unloading the magazine.

I'm sorry if I scare the **** out of you, but a 1300lb brown bear charging scares the **** out of me.

[gjl711]

This goes back to where you're from. I "pack heat" because of the wildlife that I encounter. ....Carrying a weapon while hiking is something completely different than carrying a weapon in an urban location. In the later, the wildlife is interested in your equipment or your $$$ all of which can be replaced. In the former the wildlife could care less about your equipment but is interested in you, as dinner. You can't be replaced. I can't see heading into the deep woods properly equipped. That's just silly, but carrying "heat" in a city is equally as silly.

[TrulyAlaskan]

Carrying a weapon while hiking is something completely different than carrying a weapon in an urban location. In the later, the wildlife is interested in your equipment or your $$$ all of which can be replaced. In the former the wildlife could care less about your equipment but is interested in you, as dinner. You can't be replaced. I can't see heading into the deep woods properly equipped. That's just silly, but carrying "heat" in a city is equally as silly.


Good point. I agree with not carrying in the city. I think I just saw "jungle" in the post, and missed the urban part.... then again, urban up here is not urban back in CA...

[neilwood32]

This goes back to where you're from. I "pack heat" because of the wildlife that I encounter. You want to walk around up here without some protection, be my guest. I'll stand back and watch.... with my camera. I am 100% against hunting, but I like my life. Thankfully I have never had to use any weapon that I carry, but if I was down to my last resort, I'd have no problems unloading the magazine.

I'm sorry if I scare the **** out of you, but a 1300lb brown bear charging scares the **** out of me.

I can understand your situation - the wildlife is real and a hell of a lot bigger and uglier than you.

However im kind of scared by the large minority of American responses (generalising i know) which justify packing a firearm in urban settings. IMHO pulling a gun when threatened only makes it more likely that someone will get injured or killed and the other person spending years going through legal proceedings as to whether the shooting was justified or defending a murder charge (yes thats how extreme it can get).

Call me a coward if you want but i would rather pay increased insurance costs after losing my gear than confront a thief. Heck thats what insurance is there for! In fact, if i felt that it would save my life in a confrontation i would glady hand my bag over along with any money i had. It is only money (yes it was hard earned but i can earn it again if im alive!)

Thankfully here gun crime is still pretty rare. Knife crime is more prevalent but still not excessively so.

[cryforashadow]

Wow, I can't believe some of you guys carry a gun with you. In where I live (Turkey and Iran at times) normal people can't and don't carry a gun. At least people I know don't. I'm sure mafias do though. But not normal people. And I personally would never go to scary streets with my camera, ever.

[RobNYC]

Who ever said any of us were normal? :)

[Shuko]

Get insurance and don't worry about it. At the end of the day, it's a camera. It's not worth your life, or anyone else's. I think its all of 10-50 bucks a year to insure.

At least someone with some sense in this gun thread.

[DrMitch]

Also, carry a few memory cards in your pocket, swap 'em often - that way, if you do "lose" your gear, it can be replaced, and at least some of the pics won't be lost!

[tupper]

Something that i find that help, when spending alot of time in a country, learn the language.
I've found that people, are alot nicer and more welcoming if you can speak to them in their native tongue.

[TrulyAlaskan]

Also, carry a few memory cards in your pocket, swap 'em often - that way, if you do "lose" your gear, it can be replaced, and at least some of the pics won't be lost!


This is a great idea! Even just for everyday shooting. Kind of goes back to the "don't keep all your eggs in one basket"

[nwa2]

Good point. I agree with not carrying in the city. I think I just saw "jungle" in the post, and missed the urban part.... then again, urban up here is not urban back in CA...


How many jungles are there in Alaska?

[TheMissouriShooter]

We in the US can thank the Brits for our right to keep and bear arms. Remember 1776 We in Missouri have what they call the "Castle Law" We can stand our ground protecting our home and our vehicle. And if we are sued for using deadly force legally the other party has to pay our legal/attorney fees.

"It only takes one man with a gun, to control 100 without them "------Lenin

[TheMissouriShooter]

An unarmed Englishman in Alaska is nothing more than bear bait. Or should I say Tea w/ a snack.

[TheMissouriShooter]

Neilwood32,

You never pull a handgun to threaten. You pull one, then you pull the trigger. It's not something you threaten anyone with. When it comes out your going to hear somethin loud.

[danieldare]

If your still interested in using a backpack...
Tamrac maked the adventure 9 & 10 in camoflauge...it looks like a book backpak...kinda...

and they have front straps...
keeps from getting the bag ripped off your back.

when I was in Ukraine, I carried a 8 inch blade on my body at all times...because I had a laptop and 2 dslrs in my backpack with me...
we had a group of 6 with us, and we were never alone, used the buddy system...so a gun wasnt in real need.

but when I hike in Montana...
a S&W .45 1911 is my hiking companion of choice, with all the bears out there...

[505th_man]

In my place (Philippines, SE Asia), there are loads of people in the streets walking with a dslr, even in the streets where you should not be in. (Once, I saw a guy holding a slr in a market (the dirty one).) I guess it's because of the knowledge of most of the people here don't know the worth of many cameras.

But when smart thieves come in, it's a different story, they are will usually gang up on you, (even if there are many of you) and lure you into a dark place with lesser or no people at all. After which they will get your gear, sometimes beat you up and run then sell the stolen stuff. And the police aren't going to help either. Even if you report to them, your changes of getting your equipment back are are almost 1 in a million.

In my opinion, I agree with getting an insurance and removing the logo's
and if you REALLY don't want your cameras stolen, put them into a bag, and put the bag into another bag, the padlock the zipper, the put the keys in your wallet, then your wallet will be the one stolen, hahahahaha....:lol:

Also bringing a gun or knife would not be good, are you seriously going to kill someone?

[bluefox9er]

I live in england, which is certainly more violent than the USA and we arn't even ALLOWED to legally defend ourselves! forget about your gear, if you live in a major urban city, theres every chance you will have multiple exposures to armed mugging/robbery.

id defintly carry a gun in the UK if it was legal for me to do so...the bad guys have them or have the means get them whenever they like...and were taling guns and ammo a small army would pack.

[bluefox9er]

In my place (Philippines, SE Asia), there are loads of people in the streets walking with a dslr, even in the streets where you should not be in. (Once, I saw a guy holding a slr in a market (the dirty one).) I guess it's because of the knowledge of most of the people here don't know the worth of many cameras.

But when smart thieves come in, it's a different story, they are will usually gang up on you, (even if there are many of you) and lure you into a dark place with lesser or no people at all. After which they will get your gear, sometimes beat you up and run then sell the stolen stuff. And the police aren't going to help either. Even if you report to them, your changes of getting your equipment back are are almost 1 in a million.

In my opinion, I agree with getting an insurance and removing the logo's
and if you REALLY don't want your cameras stolen, put them into a bag, and put the bag into another bag, the padlock the zipper, the put the keys in your wallet, then your wallet will be the one stolen, hahahahaha....:lol:

Also bringing a gun or knife would not be good, are you seriously going to kill someone?


I absloutley LOVE travel photography but now I am completley put off wanting to visit south east asia completley :-(

[505th_man]

I absloutley LOVE travel photography but now I am completley put off wanting to visit south east asia completley :-(

Just as long as you are within the "safe places" in the cites, there are absolutley no problems... But if you are going to buy gear, ask your guide or something. Because I know a place where you could "LEGALY" buy equipment
for a for cheaper price than regular (Haven't been ther myself, but my dad bought my a 450D and kit lens for $600). That place was even considered as the "Photographer's Haven"

[BottomBracket]

Just as long as you are within the "safe places" in the cites, there are absolutley no problems... But if you are going to buy gear, ask your guide or something. Because I know a place where you could "LEGALY" buy equipment
for a for cheaper price than regular (Haven't been ther myself, but my dad bought my a 450D and kit lens for $600). That place was even considered as the "Photographer's Haven"

Hidalgo?

[505th_man]

yup..., hehehe

[Recon Photojournalist]

From my experience ( doing what I do for a living ), being invisible is your best friend. Here's a few tricks up the sleeves that I am allowed to share:
1. Keep you camera inside your jacket with a wide angle , but nothing in the 14- 20 mm range to avoid your own feet. ( requires a two way zip jacket)
2. Keep camera in a big brown paper bag ( if zoom lens is needed ) and pre cut a small hole at the bottom, carry it as if you have lots of grocery ( two arm hugging posotion with one under the bottom of the bag )and stuff it up with balls of paper.
3. non leathal weapon- did I say weapon ? It actually part of your photographic gear-your flash. I always keep it on and ready on full power. A burst of strong light in the face is eough to blind your robber so you can get away without any consequence.
4. Since a few of you meationed all types of firearms but others worries about the legal consequences, here're some options : a) flare is always legal around the world when you can't carry a side arm (for whatever reason) and b) assuming all of you are well trained to use and carry a side arm but never shot/kill another human being ( which nobody will enjoy doing anyway ), you can load the 1st shot blank and 2nd shot with a rubber projectile. Option 4b requires you to master the technique of double tap ( don't know what double tap is? don't bother with this option ).

There you have it, the secret of street self defense.

[palaima]

well i just take my 20-year-old film rangefinder FED 5 (it cost up to 40Lt, 15$, 10 puonds) :D Although the cost of one shot is bigger but atleast you don't have to worry about loosing expensive gear.. :)

[Crazy Horse]

I work as an engineer in the Canadian navy, as a reservist. For the past few years I have been working for half of the year or so, and travelling for the other half. Even being an engineer, we are still required to train with weapons ranging from 9mm pistols to c7 assault rifles. I always enjoy a day on the range, but with that being said I have never once in my life and all of my travels found the need or desire to carry a firearm with me.

I do a lot of hiking back home in Canada. My home Provence is 82% forest, which leaves a lot of room for wild animals! We have what seems like hundreds of thousands of Moose, black bears, etc. I do protect my self, but not with a weapon. Since black bears are only likely to attack if you startled, I carry bear bells on my bag that make a lot of noise to alert the bear that someone is near by. They will leave when they hear you. There are other precautions to take too, such as not leaving food out when camping, etc.

My father, while spending a few years in the forest of Alberta encountered thousands of bears. He did carry a small .22, and used it several times... but never at a bear. The sound of a shot into the air would always send them running in his experience.

Throughout all of my urban travels, I never once felt the need to carry a gun. Granted, at first, the local farmers in small isolated Nicaraguan towns with a machete thrown over their shoulders seemed a bit, intimidating. I never did feel actually threatened.

I would much rather hand over my camera bag than pull a gun on someone. I do believe there is a time when one should fight. That is not one of them, in my mind.

[mid_gen]

I live in england, which is certainly more violent than the USA and we arn't even ALLOWED to legally defend ourselves! forget about your gear, if you live in a major urban city, theres every chance you will have multiple exposures to armed mugging/robbery.

id defintly carry a gun in the UK if it was legal for me to do so...the bad guys have them or have the means get them whenever they like...and were taling guns and ammo a small army would pack.

What a load of tosh.

But anyway. I had a similar discussion to this one on my Z4 owner's forum, with most of the American member's being incredulous that we didn't all have a handgun in our glovebox.

There's just not the same stigma attached to carrying guns in America. To Americans it may be an everyday, personal defence 'tool', but in the UK, a handgun is quite simply a device that's sole purpose is to snuff out a human life with the minimum of effort.

I'm glad we don't have a gun crime problem in the UK, long may it stay that way, but I also respect that fact that things are different in other parts of the world.

[philmar]

I think the topic was referring to non-USA locations that are either 3rd world or on the fringe.

Interesting. I guess it's all about how you see the world. Personally, I interpreted it as refering to the urban US. I find it safer in most 3rd world countries that I've been to: Ethiopia, Yemen, Jordan, India, Thailand, China, Vietnam, Bolivia, Guatemala, Belize, Morocco, Mali, Indonesia...ect than in places like DC, Atlanta, Detroit, Philly, NYC, St. Louis, Chicago, K.C.....ect.

[Edbee]

Traveled the entire country with thousands in my pockets and never been bothered. Always wore overalls. Sold all my handguns before I started travelling, didn't want to sit in somebody's jail!!:D

[Karlo]

I have a pepper spray in my right pocket always when shooting in urban areas . Its legal and does stop the robber so hey why not, its about the size of a woman's lipstick so its not like its a hassle to carry it with me.

[mattia]

Seriously, this is what insurance is for. 10-15 seems low, though - my quote (for about 5000 dollars worth of material) was about 100/year, but that's with global coverage and covers theft, loss and accidental damage. Seems fair to me.

I don't know about you, but property - particularly a friggin' camera, which is, at the end of the day, another factory-line, mass production item - is not more important than a human life, no matter the choices made by the perpetrator. Just because some moron's decided not to respect private property and the rule of law does not make his life forfeit.

It's just stuff. Replaceable. Easily.

[RobNYC]

I could be wrong here, but I don't think most people on the board that do have a weapon would simply kill a person for taking their camera, etc. And as some have pointed out, it is different depending on where you are and for various other factors.
I think it is different though if a perpetrator starts to use force against you to take it. The property has everything to do with it for this perpetrator, but nothing to do with you protecting yourself. I would look at it as... just because this moron decided not to respect private property and the rule of law does not make MY life forfeit. People are stabbed, shot, beaten, and killed during robberies all the time.

[mattia]

Very, very rarely over here (the Netherlands), has to be said. So it's sort of an academic argument. If they feel like hurting you, they feel like hurting you, and pulling a weapon seems like it's just more likely to get everyone - including yourself - hurt or killed. So protect yourself, sure, but not over a bit of camera gear. Just hand that sucker over.

[wayne_eddy]

I'm not normally worried about such things no matter where I am. Then again I do have 16 years experience in martial arts.

[philmar]

In Brasil I remember seeing a tourist show up at the restaurant I was eating in. He had nothing on - he was cupping his genitals. He'd been robbed of EVERYTHING he had - camera, wallet AND clothes, even shoes. He went to the restaurant to use the intternet connection to cancel his credit cards. I gave him my had to cover himself. Luckily he had coverage throough his home insurance.

[blighty]

I have two Lowe-Pros (original Trekker and a Fastpack 200), two Crumplers and I'm currently using a Kata. I don't carry any weapons and I spend a lot of time mooching around east London in the dark. I've never really had a problem, as my default expression is apparently Pissed_Off. Seriously, people cross the street to avoid me, even when I'm happily humming along to my iPod. I don't meet a lot of girls, but I don't get mugged either.

[xmltok]

can you recommend some neighborhoods in london?

[XterraJohn]

I saw where someone said that a Lowepro was easily recognized by a thief as likely containing something expensive. What about the Domke canvas bags? Those seem a little more ordinary looking. They kind of remind me of Jack Bauer's purse.

I also find it interesting to hear some peoples' reactions to the notion of being armed for self-defense. If someone comes up to rob you, it seems likely, to me personally, that they would be willing to do you harm if you didn't comply, and possibly even if you did comply. I'm curious as to what downside people see to having one more way to defend yourself if that should happen.

Note that I view weapons as a means of self-defense, not camera-defense.

[RobNYC]

I agree John... self-defense not camera defense. I'd be thinking of protecting myself screw the camera.

[tmcman]

It is hard to make a gun serve justice.
It takes a great amount of training and practice just to be able to use it well.
Then to be able to use it in mortal combat,
in an urban environment with many innocent bystanders and perhaps a loved one at your side...

[XterraJohn]

It is hard to make a gun serve justice.
It takes a great amount of training and practice just to be able to use it well.
Then to be able to use it in mortal combat,
in an urban environment with many innocent bystanders and perhaps a loved one at your side...

I agree, it definitely does not seem like an easy solution. The question is whether it's a better solution that leaving one's self and, perhaps, loved ones, at the mercy of common street criminals.

[Froggeh]

I'd say Domke are relatively unknown, but if you have a thief who knows Domke, you're gonna be taken for all $10k of stuff in the bag. Sod's law suggests that at least 2 thieves have read this forum, or found Domke when they were selling the last lot of stuff they nabbed.

Anyone have any idea if pepper spray/mace is legal in oz?

[LONDON808]

From some 1 that lived in london and has seen many toursits lose there stuff heres my advice

buy an unbranded backpack - no names ect.. get a Zip installed on the back part (the part that rests against you when wearring - have the orignal zip sealed ( epoxy along the length works great )

this will stop the casual theife when they see they cant get in unless you take it off most will walk away and go stal from the japanese guy who has his camera on the bus seat next to him

to protect against them cutting the bag you can do 2 things
1 - go to your local dive store and but a bag designed for keeping your fins in (walmart also sell) should be around $5. put your camera in this inside back pack - a knife will slice solid fabric but will get caught in this making it hard to get in undetected
2- go to the post office and get a priority mail envelopes and use these as needed to line the inside of bag ( back and side pockets are good also in main area) - this stuff is coated with lexan - the same stuff that bullet resistant glasss is made from - this makes is slash resistant

- put a D clip inside your bag and hook your neck strap to this -

[blighty]

Sounds complicated, I prefer a quick-draw option.

Everyone's different I suppose. The best advice is don't go anywhere you're not comfortable, and never show any fear or uncertainty.

Also, as far as people approaching you is concerned, Britain is now largely populated with a barely sentient underclass who find demanding things as easy as breathing. You can be followed around by an 11-year-old repeatedly asking for money, they aren't intimidating and can't seriously be hoping you'll give them money to go away, they just can't think of anything else to do.

During the Brixton riots I was going home (I lived about three or four blocks away at the time) and three guys saw me and stood in front of me asking "what I had on me" but I was drunk and my takeaway was getting cold so I just barged through them and carried on, thats the closest I've come to being mugged. In Britain it feels like they'll try it on, but won't always back it up.

I don't know what I'd do at gunpoint but if its a knife, well, I'm holding a kilo of metal and glass. I'd rather break it on someone's face than give it away.

[Cole_Schmitt]

If I were you I would carry only what you really need. If it doesn't work out the first time, you can always go back to your house, switch up the combo, and go back out. Don't carry anything (besides camera) that looks too expensive. I would also carry some pepper spray ;) Keep it hidden though... Stay on your toes and hey, maybe you will get the chance to beat the crap out of someone :p Jk.. Just be safe!

[GraemeL]

I have two Lowe-Pros (original Trekker and a Fastpack 200), two Crumplers and I'm currently using a Kata. I don't carry any weapons and I spend a lot of time mooching around east London in the dark. I've never really had a problem, as my default expression is apparently Pissed_Off. Seriously, people cross the street to avoid me, even when I'm happily humming along to my iPod. I don't meet a lot of girls, but I don't get mugged either.

I know exactly how you feel, it really annoys me when someone says I'm grumpy when in fact I'm in (was) a great mood

[peter nap]

Insurance company that I personally trust the most is often called Beretta M9. ;)
Other people might prefer something else..

I use the Colt 1911 insurance plan.

I also wear a backpack or vest and have the camera attached to it with snap on straps I made. These are like the straps made by think tank, just heavier.

Aside from that, keep an eye on the animals.

[JAbberwocky]

I keep my gear in a very ugly bag

[peter nap]

I absloutley LOVE travel photography but now I am completley put off wanting to visit south east asia completley :-(

This is a picture I took at Wednesdays Tax Demonstration. The two in the photo are friends and several hundred of us were openly armed. Probably another thousand or so, were carrying concealed. (It was raining very hard)

The last thing I was worried about was someone stealing anything of mine!

Here, carrying a gun is a right and a darn good idea if you don't want to be a victim!

http://photos.oldva.org/albums/userpics/IMG_0506-640x480.jpg

[RobNYC]

Carrying concealed is a much better plan. I never understood the whole carrying out in the open thing. Where is that?

[OC Photoguy]

I use the Naneu Pro Bravo/Alpha bags. I like where the the camera is hidden for a backpack. While not slash proof, it would be hard for someone to unzip it when I'm not looking since the camera compartment is hidden by my back.

http://www.naneupro.com/images/products/mo-b-pic5.jpg
http://www.naneupro.com/images/products/mo-b-pic6.jpg

http://www.naneupro.com/products.mdv?p=mo-b#

[McQueen278]

I carry different gear when I am afraid it may be stolen. I carry my OM gear when I need to travel light or shooting moving subjects and a RB67 or Speed Graphic when weight isn't an issue. No one even looks twice at the Olympus stuff and the rest of it is relatively inexpensive and easy to replace.

Sometimes though, I also carry a Kel Tec P3AT or a Glock 26. On rare occasions, I shoot in Detroit with a friend or two and there is a lot of random violence. One friend I go with is a State Police Officer who used to work at a DMC Emergency Room and he said that nearly every day someone came in with a gunshot wound inflicted after they handed over their wallet. There is an astounding amount of animalistic violence in Detroit and I'm just not going to take the chance that the person mugging me won't do me harm just for the fun of it. As I said, I RARELY go to Detroit and it is always with a off duty police officer, but I'm still glad I have a CPL.

[peter nap]

Carrying concealed is a much better plan. I never understood the whole carrying out in the open thing. Where is that?

Richmond Va.

Open carry is faster and you aren't as limited to the handgun you choose. It's also required by law if you go into a restaurant that serves alcohol.

You can also open carry without any permit!

[RobNYC]

Faster? Yeah, and it lets everyone know what you've got it an where it is! Glad I don't live in Va!

[peter nap]

Glad I don't live in Va!


Yep, me too!

[glbtrekker]

Glock 20 here, concealed (considering a "safepacker" to go on my ThinkTank belt)...I like the element of surprise. However, open carry will certainly discourage a great majority of petty thieves. Most, after all, are looking for an easy target.

[RobNYC]

Or... encourage petty thieves to go for your gun if they dont have their own... now that they know where it is!

[peter nap]

Or... encourage petty thieves to go for your gun if they dont have their own... now that they know where it is!

That's what retention holsters are for!

Knowing and getting are two different things. I guess we just don't have the highly trained thieves NY does.

[glbtrekker]

Not too many unarmed thieves are going to attack a person openly carrying a gun. Perhaps an armed thief (that's why I prefer concealed carry), but I suppose then you're in trouble anyway.

[peter nap]

Not too many unarmed thieves are going to attack a person openly carrying a gun. Perhaps an armed thief (that's why I prefer concealed carry), but I suppose then you're in trouble anyway.

There are pros and cons to both carry methods. Summer carry is almost impossible for me to conceal. A full size 1911 just isn't going in my shorts pocket. An inside the pants holster works OK but it is a slow draw.

The biggest plus here, for Open carry, is that damned restaurant law. If you stop to eat and they serve drinks, it can't be concealed. That has prompted something called the Virginia tuck. Just tuck your shirt or jacket behind the gun so it shows. It has been voted out twice now but our idiot Governor vetoes it every time.
Thankfully, next year, he will be gone.

The next biggest advantage of OC, is that you don't need a permit. Many people are concerned about the Shall issue...permits. If you can't register the guns and that will never happen here...register the people carrying the guns.

[Tbiafore]

I have seen lots of posts of what peoples ideas are to help stop this, but i would be more interested in actually hearing from photographers on this forum that actually had THEIR camera equipment stolen while on a shot in a foreign land? Not stories of someone else or heard, etc..

--Thor

[Wynder]

The times I've shot in Center City Philadelphia, I follow the advice of the first response to the original poster -- I have my Lowepro Slingshot on my back, my camera in my hand and my Springfield XD 9mm in my holster... Haven't had a problem yet, thankfully. :)

[jabber]

Of course it's not unheard of for people's stuff to get stolen, but there's an awful lot of paranoia in this thread. The overwhelming majority of people in the world are no more likely to steal from you than you are from them. Since I started shooting five years ago, I've lived in Africa, Asia, and South America and traveled everywhere with my camera, and have never been threatened or had a piece of gear stolen. Be respectful of other people, look like you know what you're doing, be aware of your surroundings, and try not to stand out like an anthropologist taking pictures of the natives. If you're really worried, get insurance for your gear and leave your anxieties behind--it's no fun taking pictures if you're preoccupied with fear.

[dgoakill]

The times I've shot in Center City Philadelphia, I follow the advice of the first response to the original poster -- I have my Lowepro Slingshot on my back, my camera in my hand and my Springfield XD 9mm in my holster... Haven't had a problem yet, thankfully. :)

Philly really isn't that bad, I've shot in some very very shady places and never had any trouble. As long as you look like you belong and carry yourself as such most people tend to ignore you.

It's ironic but those that look like a scared cat are the ones most likely to get targeted and not just by thugs. there are some very pushy "outdoor" salesmen, touristy types hocking tours and such, not to mention the bums. they can smell an out of town-er a block away.

for urban shooting I wouldn't carry much any way since you don't need it. in fact all you need is a single body and one lens, preferably wide angle to get most things. I'd keep the rest of the gear at the hotel in a safe. besides most back packs for photography scream that they are for photography and really stand out. you're better off with a DIY bag using a bike messenger bag.

[philmar]

YIKES - thread makes me happy to be living in Toronto. I can walk any streets here at night without any fear of being mugged.

Wasn't so brave in parts of Detroit and Kansas City...I'd love to see what's left of Gary, indiana. Armed escort?

[Mintie]

Of course it's not unheard of for people's stuff to get stolen, but there's an awful lot of paranoia in this thread. The overwhelming majority of people in the world are no more likely to steal from you than you are from them. Since I started shooting five years ago, I've lived in Africa, Asia, and South America and traveled everywhere with my camera, and have never been threatened or had a piece of gear stolen. Be respectful of other people, look like you know what you're doing, be aware of your surroundings, and try not to stand out like an anthropologist taking pictures of the natives. If you're really worried, get insurance for your gear and leave your anxieties behind--it's no fun taking pictures if you're preoccupied with fear.

Couldn't agree more. Be careful though, I got myself banned from this place for daring to suggest the threads should be about photography and equipment rather than guns and mace.

[Jay-Bird]

I'm glad I found this thread. I'm going to New Orleans at the end of the month and have been thinking of how I'm going carry my camera. I have a Canon bag so that is out. Plus I am flying so no Smith & Wesson 686 or even a damn pocket knife. I think I am gonna keep it simple. My XT, a Nift-Fifty, a remote trigger. something with more range and a monopod. The monopod is a good dual purpose item; mount the camera or hit someone with it. Now I just need a bag...

[Wynder]

Most airlines will allow you to check an unloaded firearm and usually up to 8lbs of ammunition -- so, if you have a license with reciprocity in that state, consider it!

[Jay-Bird]

Hmm I will have to look at into that, thanks for the info!

When I take pics around town, a town of about 90k, forty miles from the US/Mexico border, I generally carry a handgun in my car. Generally I am by myself and shoot at night, its 100 degrees as I type this, it really comes down to awareness.

It's interesting the perception about guns. In New Mexico you can open carry with out a permit and conceal with a permit. Hell I will walk into a grocery store and see someone carrying; generally 50+ and carrying a 1911. So I guess it is not a culture shock to think "citizens" carry. Hey its not like the would be robber obeys weapon laws anyways.

[Wynder]

Nice!

I'm actually the founder of Delaware Open Carry -- we have a New Mexico import who's told us how common it is to see people OC'ing while out and about. Not nearly as common here, but it's growing in popularity. :)

[philmar]

WTF????
When is Lowepro or Tamrac going to make an armed personel carrier for urban photography in American urban cities?

Maybe Cameraarmor (http://www.cameraarmor.com/)can make kevlar photography jackets.
Maybe Alien Bees can manufacture smoke bombs for those of us that need to photograph an inner city urban area. It can get us in and out undetected - as well as add some atmosphere to our photos!!

[RDKirk]

An armed wingman is better than trying to look through a viewfinder and look over your shoulder at the same time.

[BottomBracket]

Lots of paranoia in this thread.

[Go Down, Moses]

I'm just going to get a G10 and carry it in my breast pocket.

[jwkramer]

I don't know about the self defense laws in your state, but in mine, if you use deadly force to stop a property crime where you were not first threatened with deadly force, or attempted to retreat first (will change with new law), then you will be the one in jail if you shoot the perp. You also really have to ask yourself the question; are you ready to take someone's life over a camera, and then fight the likely civil legal battles the survivors will bring to you over the next 10 years? I am licensed to carry a concealed weapon, and do daily. But under those circumstances, the perp is getting my camera. The exception would be if they first use deadly force on me. And even then, I'm not drawing down on someone with a gun already pointed at me, that is suicide. Carrying a weapon is pretty worthless unless you've first prepared yourself mentally for the various scenarios that might present itself. And if you've made the mental committment, you darn better make sure you're prepared legally and financially for the outcome.

Thank God someone with some common sense chimed in. You are a wise person.

-Jim

[BottomBracket]

Thank God someone with some common sense chimed in. You are a wise person.

-Jim

+1.

[Cyclop]

Incognito, blend-in with crowds and don't dress in touristy-attire.

[preposterous]

Some great advice so far here, but I have a couple questions:

- If you remove labels or use a non-camera bag and such to not bring attention to the fact that you have expensive gear inside, what about a tripod? I have a gitzo 0541 + 2180 fluid head, and I could cover up the names but it still looks like a nice carbon fiber tripod. Any other option than bringing a large backpack that can fit the entire tripod inside?

- anyone know of any methods for skinning/decorating your body & lenses. I've seen one guy who covered his camera in masking tape & sharpie over the tape, would love to see some other ideas/inspiration