Canon vs Metz Flash

[kevs]

I just got the 1ds and the 10d.
I've been hearing that the 550 ex, and other Canon flashes do not TTL well or have some exposure problems which I don't understand fully yet. But I spoke with Canon and they say their flashes work just fine, and perhaps their flashes are just are overanalyzed by some various wanna be shooters.

Some people prefer the Metz 54, which for some reason, even being an aftermarket product cost more than Canon's flash. Any idea why?

I'm wondering, has anyone tested both extensively and seen a truely better perfomance by the Metz? Is it worth the extra money? I'm shooting mostly Program ttl, and occasionally on Aperature priority. Thanks!

[robertwgross]

I just got the 1ds and the 10d.
I've been hearing that the 550 ex, and other Canon flashes do not TTL well or have some exposure problems which I don't understand fully yet. But I spoke with Canon and they say their flashes work just fine, and perhaps their flashes are just are overanalyzed by some various wanna be shooters.

Some people prefer the Metz 54, which for some reason, even being an aftermarket product cost more than Canon's flash. Any idea why?

I'm wondering, has anyone tested both extensively and seen a truely better perfomance by the Metz? Is it worth the extra money? I'm shooting mostly Program ttl, and occasionally on Aperature priority. Thanks!

You might want to first explain how you are shooting TTL with the 10D camera. The primary flash mode of a 10D is E-TTL, which the 550EX flash supports. There is manual mode, but you didn't leave us with many details.

---Bob Gross---

[scottbergerphoto]

ETTL has gotten alot of bad rap because of the inconsistency of exposure. For some people who have mastered its quirks, it works very well. The new 1D Mark II has ETTL2 which has been reported to be less fooled by dark and light objects. You can work around the ETTL inconsistencies, which will be the same for any flash used in ETTL because it is controlled by the camera body and not the flash, by using the 550EX in Manual Flash mode, or using a flash with Auto Mode(thyristor controlled), like the Quantum Q Flash T2D, which can be used ETTL, Manual, and Auto.
Regards,
Scott

[kevs]

You might want to first explain how you are shooting TTL with the 10D camera. The primary flash mode of a 10D is E-TTL, which the 550EX flash supports. There is manual mode, but you didn't leave us with many details.

---Bob Gross---[/quote]


Sorry Bob:
No, I'm shooting flash at all yet. I just got the 1ds and the 10-d a few days ago, and now on verge of getting the flash, but i'm just doing my research first. So I've heard about some problems with 550ex. Many say it's just great, and other say Metz performs better, but has it's own problems. So I totally confused which one to buy. Basically, I just want a flash on camera that I can walk around at events or weddings and get accurate results as I used to get with my sunpack/nikon combo... thanks

[robertwgross]

When I shoot weddings, I use a standard rig. Canon D60, Canon 550EX flash, and a flip-type flash bracket. Sometimes I use this on a tripod, but not necessarily.

Most of the tricky nature of E-TTL seems to be (IMHO) something about the metering mode, so I have tried changing that for shots on one pose. I can't prove that is the cause, but I am guessing. Then sometimes I will get inconsistent exposure, but it is for some stupid user settting, which is purely my fault. That generally only happens when somebody is pushing me to hurry up or if some fool is questioning me on what kind of camera he should buy. Then once in a while I get inconsistent exposure if I don't wait long enough for the flash to recycle between shots. If the batteries get weak, then the ready light is lit, but the flash isn't quite ready to fire full power.

Since I can't solve each problem, I just try to make a mental note of them and work around them whenever possible. I don't get any exposure problems so bad that they can't be fixed in the image editor.

---Bob Gross---

[De Paula]

Is this problem 100% solved with E-TTL II ?

[scottbergerphoto]

Is this problem 100% solved with E-TTL II ?
The verdict so far at www.robgalbraith.com is that while not perfect, ETTL II is much more consistent and not as easily fooled by light/dark objects as ETTL.
Scott

[De Paula]

"...but the problem continues...."
The End. :roll:

[kevs]

Robert:
So would you say that the 550EX, on the whole gives you accurate exposure, regardless of subject?-- as good as most on camera flashes? I don't want to correct anything later, becasue for weddings, my business model is to burn the whole dang thing on cd and hand it over.

Scott:
Could you please provide direct link, could not find that article even with a search.

What is TTL2?

[scottbergerphoto]

Robert:
So would you say that the 550EX, on the whole gives you accurate exposure, regardless of subject?-- as good as most on camera flashes? I don't want to correct anything later, becasue for weddings, my business model is to burn the whole dang thing on cd and hand it over.

Scott:
Could you please provide direct link, could not find that article even with a search.

What is TTL2?
TTL2 is short for ETTL2 :D This is Canon's new and improved flash metering which takes into account distance information. It works with all EX series flashes.
http://www.robgalbraith.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=234338&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1
Scott

[kevs]

If I get a new 550EX, and use it with 1ds or 10d, I will have ETTL2? Your opinion on 550x vs Metz?

[scottbergerphoto]

If I get a new 550EX, and use it with 1ds or 10d, I will have ETTL2? Your opinion on 550x vs Metz?
No. ETTL2 is new with the 1DMarkII. So far it is the only body with it.
I have no experience with the Metz. I use the Quantum and the 550EX.
Scott

[robertwgross]

So would you say that the 550EX, on the whole gives you accurate exposure, regardless of subject?-- as good as most on camera flashes? I don't want to correct anything later, becasue for weddings, my business model is to burn the whole dang thing on cd and hand it over.


Nothing is completely automatic, and there is a fool who can overcome any foolproof scheme.

The 550EX gives you a lot more maximum light, and there are many many controls that allow you to play around with the light. I find the maximum light aspect (higher Guide Number) to be important when shooting a dance floor at a wedding reception. The photographer has no business being right up next to the bride and groom, so I stay back with the lens zoomed out, and I let the 550EX light up their foreheads.

If you don't want to correct anything later, then I can't advise you much. Do you shoot RAW, or otherwise?

---Bob Gross---

[kevs]

Bob:
I would probably be shooting mostly jpegs with flash on camera. Are you r comments of 550EX in comparison to the Metz, or just general observation? In short, you get pretty consistent results and exposure?

You don't use a battery backup like a Lumedyne etc with it-- just the double aas?

[robertwgross]

I never shoot anything but RAW files.

I've never used a Metz flash.

I've never used a battery backup.

For a wedding, I use a 550EX with three sets of AA alkaline batteries, and I swap sets around two or three times per wedding, every time we move from one room to another or from one major pose to another.

Most of the exposure weakness that I had previously seemed to be from metering mode and the obvious problems of shooting white gowns next to black tuxedos. Any residual exposure weakness was easily correctable in the image editor.

---Bob Gross---

[Brianbar]

Going back several years ago, I did Weddings, Sports Team Photos etc. using Canon AE1's with the older version of the Metz 60CT series, I think it was a 402, never ever a problem.
It out lasted many cameras.
When I decided to do photography as a hobby I sold this flash, BIG MISTAKE.
I now have a Canon 10D and a G3 with a 420 EX, and like so many members mentioned, I'm having problem too.
I guess what I am asking is, are the 420 and 550EX flashes under powered, I would like to hear from anybody that's using the Metz 60CT series.
I sure hope that nobody mentions the price, as that should not be the issue, either they work or they don't.

Brian

[kevs]

Brianbar:
Are the problems you are having related to digital only? Would they exist if you were shooting with film body? This is what I'm trying to find out and why.

Robert: same thing, would the problems of shooting white gowns and black tux, exist if you were shooting with film body?

Also curious, with just regular double aa's in the flash pack, is not your recycling time real slow. It's been long time, but I remember that before I got the Lumedyne, the recycling was like 5-8 seconds, and then with the battery pack became instantaneious.

[robertwgross]

Robert: same thing, would the problems of shooting white gowns and black tux, exist if you were shooting with film body?


With good negative film, you have maybe eight or more stops of dynamic range. With a good digital camera, that range is only maybe six, so if you have a wide range in the subject (like the white gown and black tux), then it is more difficult to get it right or correctable with digital. It is not impossible, but you just have to pay attention.


Also curious, with just regular double aa's in the flash pack, is not your recycling time real slow. It's been long time, but I remember that before I got the Lumedyne, the recycling was like 5-8 seconds, and then with the battery pack became instantaneious.

At a wedding, it would be rare for me to need to flash faster than once every eight seconds. If the flash range to subject is reduced, then it recycles quicker.

---Bob Gross---

[Brianbar]

Kevs
After selling the Metz 402 and the Canon AE1, I purchased an Elan 11 and the 420EX flash.
To answer your question I had the same problem with the Elan 11 as I do with digital using the 420EX.

Brian

[kevs]

Brianbar:
Price is not an issue...
Don't you want the 550Ex, is that one not much more powerful?

[Andy_T]

Kevs,

I'm not a Canon flash expert ... but I use a Metz MZ40-II with a Canon adapter on my G2 - because it was leftover from my N**** outfit. (I also don't really know how to use it to its full advantage :lol:)

Canon has special metering modes (e.g. e-TTL) that only Canon flashes (or compatible flashes like the Sigma 500) support. Don't know about new Metz flashes, but I'd inquire at your dealer or somebody who has one whether they are compatible.

There also is a TTL mode firing a pre-flash, but that does not give me any consistent results ... maybe because the G2 (which is a consumer digicam) does not know that the flash is there. (However, the flash gets the focal length and aperture information from the camera). So I use manual mode on the flash (bounced from ceiling) and camera (e.g. 5.6 and 1/125 at 50 ISO) and that works great for indoor photos with low light over not-so-great distances - if I try it out first.

Definitely not what you would like to do several times during a wedding.

Hope that post helps instead of adding to the overall confusion because of my using a G2 and being generally not a flash expert :lol:

Best regards,
Andy

[Brianbar]

kevs
I recently used the Elan 11 and the 420EX to take photos of a presentation of two people full length using the camera in the vertical position, about 10ft from the subject and filling the frame. Same problem underexposed. (Same with 10D) I don't think 10ft is asking to much from the 420EX.
We hear members asking all kinds of question about different setting, what ever happened to AUTO, and letting the camera and flash do it all for you.
How I wished I still had my OLD Metz 402, never a problem with it.

Brian
Used Canon 28-105mm USM lens.