Anyone ever have any problems with payment?

[05Xrunner]

Last sat i did a shoot. I started the shoot at 7:30am and was done at 5:30pm..it was 10hrs.
So we talked about payment and agreed on a price. Then I left. Talked on that tues about me sending him and invoice and then he would paypal the money and then i would mail the DVD to him. This is for a wheel company. So its sunday and I am still waiting on payment. Should I contact the Company about this. That their art dir. Who put the shoot together and asked me to do it still has not payed me for doing the shoot. I have called him twice and no answer. What should I do about this. This was the first time I ever did a shoot for a company before. I usually just do for personal people.

Thanks

[cdifoto]

I had problems with payment one time. They never got their images though. ;) Ever since then I haven't had issues because I don't shoot until I'm paid. :)

As far as your situation goes, send an invoice again via registered mail, except to their Accounts Payable Department, not to their Art Director.

[MJPhotos24]

I flew down to Puerto Rico for a shoot last year, promised a LOT of things to get me there and I bit (guy was a coach for the Atlanta Braves system, so no reason not to trust him). Well I get down and none of the stuff I'm promised is there, the pro players didnt show up, well it went down the crapper for everyone - we found out the Braves fired him, he wasn't giving the kids (it was a baseball tour) any of the stuff he promised, or the coaches either. He didn't pay me or two former major league coaches/instructors what he promised. I sold enough pics to parents to double what I spent, but never saw a dime from him. Invoiced him a few times and when he didn't pay didn't give him the pics. Luckily I made it back though, he did ask several times saying "where are MY pictures?" and then left some pretty bad messages on my cell phone and somehow got my parents phone number and left them on there to. (besides the point though, he).

I've had other instances where companies don't pay an invoice until it's cleared by someone. One photo editor put my invoice in and when I sent a friendly email he went checking on it to find the girl marked it as paid when it wasn't (or at least thats the story, and I've never had a reason to not believe him as we've done business lots of times). This may be a case of something like that, he's waiting to get it cleared or something. I've noticed the norm is usually 7-10 working days so I'd say wait the 7 business days and then send a friendly email asking, or phone call, whatever you usually do to contact him. Even somthing that just says you have the DVD ready and packaged to ship, etc.etc. Also, when it is recieved and you have mailed it, send out a notice that you did so and thanking him - could mean more business.

[05Xrunner]

I mean if thats the case. He could say i am just waiting for it to clear. He hasnt answered the phone or called me back.

[ssim]

I've dealt with some rather large companies and it seems the larger they are the harder it is to get things done.

If I haven't dealt with them before they have to provide a deposit. I don't want to get caught with having delivered a product and having no money. Once I have dealt with a company for a couple of jobs I will work with them on a purchase order basis. I provide an incentive for them to pay on time by offering them a 2% discount on before tax amounts if they pay within 15 days or a 4% credit towards future jobs if they pay within 15 days. I use the postmark as date of payment. The future credit has worked fairly well in that it makes them come back. This cannot be converted to cash.

If the guy made a commitment then I see no problem with checking in with him. You could position it that you are just checking to see if there is a problem as you hadn't received your payment as agreed. You have to know where to draw the line between follow up and being a pest. Only you can decide the whens and wheres of that.

I have only been burnt once for close to 2K as the company went into bankruptcy protection. I did get some of it back but not anywhere close to the original amount and it took almost 18 months at that.

[primoz]

Obviously you have things different in USA then we have here. Here payments are normally done in 30-90 days after they get invoice. So one week time is nothing to worry about. At least here. I have no idea about USA, but from those few times I was dealing with US clients, I can say it's pretty much same. I never got payment in week. So personally I wouldn't be worried... yet :)

[05Xrunner]

everything is good now.

[PhotosGuy]

Last sat i did a shoot... So we talked about payment and agreed on a price. WAY too backwards for me!

If I haven't dealt with them before they have to provide a deposit. That's always a good policy. And I add a note on the invoice that © does not transfer until the final check has cleared.
I've dealt with some rather large companies and it seems the larger they are the harder it is to get things done. GM paid in 1 week once & in 5 months in another. ;)

[Croasdail]

Primoz... no, things are not different here in the states. Most times I am happy if it is only 30 days. One group I shoot for pays quarterly. A week, no business pays on paper that fast. I would just cool my jets. If you want fast pay, do like ssim mentions and give them terms. If you need the cash quick and the company pays net/30, look into AR financing and just add the factoring charge into the bill. But insisting on the money days later is just showing you haven't done this much - unless the contract you signed had short term specified.

[S.Horton]

Drive there, take an invoice and a DVD with you, get a check or a Paypal -- No biggie; their probably just busy.

I'm an ex bill collector; let me know if he goes deadbeat on ya. I'll PM you some NFO.

[vwpilot]

If you did this for a company, you can figure usually on 30 days net at a minimum. Big companies are even worse with their own weird rules for paying invoices. I sent two invoices at the same time to an accounts payable department for a big auto company, I got one invoice paid immediately and the other still pending almost 4 weeks later due to the dates of the work done on the invoice, even though they were in the same FedEx envelope.

[breal101]

Primoz... no, things are not different here in the states. Most times I am happy if it is only 30 days. One group I shoot for pays quarterly. A week, no business pays on paper that fast. I would just cool my jets. If you want fast pay, do like ssim mentions and give them terms. If you need the cash quick and the company pays net/30, look into AR financing and just add the factoring charge into the bill. But insisting on the money days later is just showing you haven't done this much - unless the contract you signed had short term specified.

When I saw this post I almost fell on the floor laughing. Asking PHOTOGRAPHERS if they have a problem getting paid? Most clients think we are a bank with no interest charges and no need to fill out a loan app. If I get a check from an agency in less than 30 days I dance a jig. :lol::lol:

[cowpix]

When I saw this post I almost fell on the floor laughing. Asking PHOTOGRAPHERS if they have a problem getting paid? Most clients think we are a bank with no interest charges and no need to fill out a loan app. If I get a check from an agency in less than 30 days I dance a jig. :lol::lol:


Ain't that the truth!

[breal101]

Oh crap, I agree with what you said Croasdail. I was referring to the original post.

[LBaldwin]

Les to the rescue,and welcome to doing biddness with the world!! I have had several clients go from 45 days (normal here in the sillycon valley) to 4-6 months.

I had a very large semiconductor owe me 17 large for over 6 months. Then I learned a SECRET. Giv'em a discount for early payment!! Jack up your invoice by 4% and give a 4% discount for payment under 30 days. Make sure that it is easy to see on your invoice, bold colors or what ever. Every small biz tries to attach fees for late payment and some are succesful but most are not. Good info on the transfer of copyright or usage pending on payment, it does work too. Many laege companies have internal requriements to pay discounted invoices first.

One other way I got paid by a dead beat, I sent him an invitaion to lunch and pretended to be a rival mag looking for a new editor. When he showed up I had him served with small claims papers instead of a sandwich. This was for a 3k gig nearly a year old. He kept poor mouthing me yet he bought a new mercedes. I won the case the mag fired him a month later and he has never been seen around these parts since. Seems he stiffed quite a few creative types around here. I had the judge attach both the magazines accounts as well as his personal account. He tried the bankruptcy route but that was denied by the court.

[PhotosGuy]

When he showed up I had him served with small claims papers instead of a sandwich. :D A man after my own heart! I wish I could have done that with GM!

I usually gave 2%/30 days. They took the discount & still paid late! ;)

[Croasdail]

Les to the rescue,and welcome to doing biddness with the world!! I have had several clients go from 45 days (normal here in the sillycon valley) to 4-6 months.

I had a very large semiconductor owe me 17 large for over 6 months. Then I learned a SECRET. Giv'em a discount for early payment!! Jack up your invoice by 4% and give a 4% discount for payment under 30 days. Make sure that it is easy to see on your invoice, bold colors or what ever. Every small biz tries to attach fees for late payment and some are succesful but most are not. Good info on the transfer of copyright or usage pending on payment, it does work too. Many laege companies have internal requriements to pay discounted invoices first.

One other way I got paid by a dead beat, I sent him an invitaion to lunch and pretended to be a rival mag looking for a new editor. When he showed up I had him served with small claims papers instead of a sandwich. This was for a 3k gig nearly a year old. He kept poor mouthing me yet he bought a new mercedes. I won the case the mag fired him a month later and he has never been seen around these parts since. Seems he stiffed quite a few creative types around here. I had the judge attach both the magazines accounts as well as his personal account. He tried the bankruptcy route but that was denied by the court.

How did you get the court to attach his personal wages if he was not a officer of the company, soley an agent of the company? That is very cool... not sure it would work out here.

[breal101]

The discount thing may work but when I tried it I still got checks a month or more late and LESS the discount. I have always included the bit about the copyright transfer contingent on payment. Getting anything up front from an ad agency? Good luck.

[primoz]

More you work more experiences you get, and to be honest I did notice few things from my own experiences... People are different. Actually not people but whole nations. I'm doing lot of stuff with Scandinavian agencies and papers and they never have problems paying. They pay when they get invoice. Not after month or two but right away. Ok it still takes few days and another few days for bank transfers but it's done fast. And I'm not talking about some small office but big ones.
But more south you go (I'm talking for Europe now) payment discipline is getting worse and worse. I have quite some business with some other agencies and papers from middle Europe (still west and not east Europe), and they do pay all their bills, but it takes "a while". I just got bill from last December paid yesterday. First few months are a bit worse, but after that it goes... instead of paid invoices for current month you are getting money from invoices sent half a year ago :D

[LBaldwin]

How did you get the court to attach his personal wages if he was not a officer of the company, soley an agent of the company? That is very cool... not sure it would work out here.


He had a some of his cash tied up with this business, and it turns out when we did some research he was actually an initial principal in the rag. But he was eventually leveraged out by the other partners. The guy was shady to be polite. There were several wordsmiths and designers that were out in the cold. Webbies and other creatives had smaller amounts of work involved.

Sticking by your contract is really your only recourse in these situations. I got lucky I got most of what I was owed. Getting paid is always an issue regardless of the company, all companies have this issue.

Les

[J3ffro]

I think in most businesses in the United States (not simply photography) payment taking a couple weeks is on the fast side of things. It's one thing if you're dealing with a person, but as soon as a business comes into it, there's oftentimes several sets of eyes/signitures that need to be required before money leaves the building.

[davidtaylorpictures]

Don't shoot till paid is my philosophy.

[Croasdail]

Ok David, you peaked my interest.. how do you do that? Not shoot until paid? I would love to know how you pull that off? What type of photography are you doing that you are getting prepayment for?

[davidtaylorpictures]

I charge sit-in fees for my work to insure that I get at least something. Now when I say I don't shoot until I pay I may lose money by showing up to an event and they decide to not pay the sit-in fee if that makes sense. They pay the fee, they got me for however much time they paid for and I start shooting the event.

I don't really have one area, I do weddings, sports, productions, birthdays, etx.....

[Croasdail]

Ok.... so that makes more sense when you are working for individuals rather then organizations. I can see that working. I don't do that kind of work much... or if at all.

[Sonic Infidel]

I'm still waiting for payment of nearly $500 from the Chicago Tribune for work I did. It's been two months since the oldest job. Perhaps I should invoice them again...

[LBaldwin]

The discount thing may work but when I tried it I still got checks a month or more late and LESS the discount. I have always included the bit about the copyright transfer contingent on payment. Getting anything up front from an ad agency? Good luck.


Then rebill for the difference. I too am getting a little older and really dislike when someone decides to run me over. Often it is done innocently, but there are a few that will do it intentionally. But remember that I am marking the invoice up 4% and then giving a 4% discount for early payment. If they refuse then get in touch with your POC and let them know that the invoice was short. Trust me use respect, tact and professionilism at all times but insist on what is yours. If you don't do the mark-up then I would not give a discount on will probably end up being a 45 day wait.

One other factor are check runs. Find out in advance of the job, when their AP department does it's weekly (you hope) check run. Some small companies do it biweekly or even monthly. That can run into all kinds of delays.

Some important questions for you business newbies are as follows.

1. Check runs, dates fior the 2 following months after your invoice is received by their AP department
2. Are there any requirements that their AP department has or needs prior to payment. Like your SSN or taxpayer ID or in some areas your business license info.
3. Does your invoice meet their standards? Some large corps have very stringent requirements re: the format the invoice is in. Others don't give a hoot, but it pays to find out in advance.
4. Is the company using an offsite or contract AP company, or is the AP department at HQ in Kuala lampur? Don't laugh it happened to me. The company I was shooting for was required to forward all invoices to Kowloon for committee review and release of funds. They only forward once a month and it travels - wait for it - surface or ground shipping. Took nearly 6 months to get paid. BUT they did pay my monthly interest rate of 7%. Great client, takes forever to get paid.

Lastly, if you are entering commercial work you need to understand that it is not like weddings or portraits. You need enough cash set aside to handle slow
payments.

I hope this helps, if anyone has any questions, just hollla,

Les

[Sonic Infidel]

That's very informative, Les. Thanks for the heads-up.

Perhaps I should wait on commercial work until I have substiantial cash flow .