Sports photography with slow focusing lens??

[deltroid]

Hi everyone!

I hope someone can give me some pointers in regards to my situation... Yesterday I went to an event and from the bleachers I snapped a bunch of pictures, but less than 40% were in focus.

The subjects were horses jumping over obstacles (Sorry I don't know the name of this sport in English :)). From where I was sitting I could get pictures of pretty much all angles, and below were my settings:

Xti
Sigma 70-300mm 1:4-5.6 DG Lens (very cheap lens that came with my XTi, but my only telephoto lens at the moment)
AI Servo
Continuous Shooting
ISO 800 and 1600
Aperture: Between 4.5 and 5.6 (lighting was low...it was raining)
Custom Funct. 4: Set to 1
All pictures taken between 200 and 300mm

I don't have sample pictures to post here now, but anyhow, when looking at the pictures at home I realized that 90% of my OOF pictures were of horses moving towards me or away from me (that is, moving away from forus). Even using AI Servo, it missed focus too many times for my taste...

My basic question is: If I had a faster focusing lens, would I get more "in focus" shots? During sports photography (which is not my area, btw), is a fast focusing lens extremely important or are there other techniques which I am not aware of?

If I'm wrong, what else could I do to get better focus?
I tried using manual focus to pre-focus on the obstacles, but the results were not good at all, I guess because I had to keep the lens wide open. I also tried focus on single-shot and I switched Custom Function 4 between 1 and 0 to see if it helped...but nothing changed...

I can post some pictures tomorrow, but for now, can anyone comment on this?

[ebann]

Hi! I assume you didn't use a tripod right? At such a long focal length, a steady hand goes a long way in getting sharp pictures. Are you sure it was all due to OOF? Could it have been camera shake as well? Other than that, your XTi's 9-AF points is definitely doable and 60% OOF seems too much. The problem shooting wide open is that your DoF is limited and you have to get the shot just right. Since you didn't have enough light that was a contributing factor. Faster lens will help you stop action better in low-light and reduce camera shake. It will help you AF a little faster. For the camera to track fast objects better you need more AF points. I personally had 3-AF points on my old D30 (on tripod) and did single-shots at ISO 1600 with f/4-5.6. A lot of misses but I prefer tracking with my center AF point and shooting away. Of course, ballerinas move a lot less than a horse does! I don't keep my camera fixed, I track a lot.

[deltroid]

Thanks Ebann!

I forgot to mention that yesterday I used mainly the center AF point for my shots. In regards to camera shake, I didn't use a tripod because by keeping the lens wide open and ISO between 800 and 1600 I had SS' between 1/250 and 1/750...also, I was holding the camera pretty steady since I had both my elbows on my knees while sitting on the bleachers.

To be more specific, when the horse was coming close to the obstacle, I held focus with AI Servo mostly on the horse's head and tracked it until I found the right moment to snap the shot, but when tracking the subject I noticed that the lens would go in and out of focus several times, and when I took the picture, some of them were terribly OOF, and even the ones that I thought were OK, came out OOF when looking at them on the computer screen.

Should I have kept all 9 AF points active??
Are you saying that a faster focusing lens would not improve too much of my shots in this case? (I don't mean a fast lens as to Aperture, but only focus speed itself).

Thanks!!

[ebann]

Thanks Ebann!

I forgot to mention that yesterday I used mainly the center AF point for my shots. In regards to camera shake, I didn't use a tripod because by keeping the lens wide open and ISO between 800 and 1600 I had SS' between 1/250 and 1/750...also, I was holding the camera pretty steady since I had both my elbows on my knees while sitting on the bleachers.

To be more specific, when the horse was coming close to the obstacle, I held focus with AI Servo mostly on the horse's head and tracked it until I found the right moment to snap the shot, but when tracking the subject I noticed that the lens would go in and out of focus several times, and when I took the picture, some of them were terribly OOF, and even the ones that I thought were OK, came out OOF when looking at them on the computer screen.

Should I have kept all 9 AF points active??
Are you saying that a faster focusing lens would not improve too much of my shots in this case? (I don't mean a fast lens as to Aperture, but only focus speed itself).

Thanks!!

My bad. I thought you meant faster lens (aperture). More light coming in fast helps the camera process the AF information a little faster. E.g. if you were to add extension tubes to a long telephoto lens, there comes a point where there isn't enough light to feed the AF system and it ceases to work.

Now, you meant different focusing mechanisms... I'm going to use Canon systems: Canon has micro-motor AF, micro-motor-USM AF, and ring-USM AF. The ring-USM is the fastest focusing system around. It gives the popular 85mm/1.8 the fastest AF trigger in the west. Sigma lens has their own HSM which I don't know if it is ring-USM or micro-motor-USM.

Definitely get a faster focusing system. My 75-300 IS USM is micro-motor-USM while my new 70-200 IS USM is ring-USM.

Activating all 9-AF points is helpful when you have problems tracking the object. I personally don't like the AI-servo because it hunts a lot... until I can try it on my 1D!

P.S. Did you get the 28-105mm pictures?

[SaSi]

Of course a fast focusing lens is prefferable, but not the only way. Some hints.

Instead of shooting at 1/750, it's prefferable to shoot 1 stop slower and close the apperture 1 f stop. This will increase the depth of field and help the subjects get into the focus range and stay there.

Shooting moving subjects is tricky. A single focus point isn't very good with the XT/XTi cameras. It's better to use all focus points, AI Servo and train the lens on the moving subject before you start shooting. Follow the subject with the shutter button half-pressed.

Before the subject get's where you want it to be, start shooting. The first shot may not be in focus but subsequent shots will be.

I have used this technique with my 80-400 which is really slow in focusing. It has given me a great boost in sharp images.

[deltroid]

Ebann and SaSi - Thanks for the info and tips! Very useful indeed!!

Ebann, I'm anxious to receive the Canon 75-300mm, and this post is one of the reasons, plus IS will come in handy! And BTW, I didn't receive the sample shots of the 28-105mm. :(

SaSi, next time I come to shoot moving subjects, I'll definately follow your suggestions!

Questions solved! :D

[Photodawg1]

Hi everyone!

I hope someone can give me some pointers in regards to my situation... Yesterday I went to an event and from the bleachers I snapped a bunch of pictures, but less than 40% were in focus.

The subjects were horses jumping over obstacles (Sorry I don't know the name of this sport in English :)). From where I was sitting I could get pictures of pretty much all angles, and below were my settings:

Xti
Sigma 70-300mm 1:4-5.6 DG Lens (very cheap lens that came with my XTi, but my only telephoto lens at the moment)
AI Servo
Continuous Shooting
ISO 800 and 1600
Aperture: Between 4.5 and 5.6 (lighting was low...it was raining)
Custom Funct. 4: Set to 1
All pictures taken between 200 and 300mm

I don't have sample pictures to post here now, but anyhow, when looking at the pictures at home I realized that 90% of my OOF pictures were of horses moving towards me or away from me (that is, moving away from forus). Even using AI Servo, it missed focus too many times for my taste...

My basic question is: If I had a faster focusing lens, would I get more "in focus" shots? During sports photography (which is not my area, btw), is a fast focusing lens extremely important or are there other techniques which I am not aware of?

If I'm wrong, what else could I do to get better focus?
I tried using manual focus to pre-focus on the obstacles, but the results were not good at all, I guess because I had to keep the lens wide open. I also tried focus on single-shot and I switched Custom Function 4 between 1 and 0 to see if it helped...but nothing changed...

I can post some pictures tomorrow, but for now, can anyone comment on this?

Yes...fast focusing important...You need a faster lens for starters. Also I suggest not shooting continuous shooting. A very good resource is: http://www.equinephotographers.org/

[SaSi]

Also I suggest not shooting continuous shooting.Continuous shooting with AI Servo is the way Canon designed the AF system to work better with moving objects. Shooting a single shot is a hit-miss situation with the AF design favouring the miss case.

[Photodawg1]

Continuous shooting with AI Servo is the way Canon designed the AF system to work better with moving objects. Shooting a single shot is a hit-miss situation with the AF design favouring the miss case.


Well I tried continuous shooting and I didn't like it at all I missed way more than I hit that way. If you are a good photographer and have a good eye and know the horses reasonably well, you should be able to get great shots without using continuous, perhaps I am misunderstanding what you mean by continuous shooting.

[cdifoto]

perhaps I am misunderstanding what you mean by continuous shooting.

Continuous shooting means

XTi: ClackClackClack
30D: ClackClackClackClackClack
1D: ClackClackClackClackClackClackClackClackCla

[Photodawg1]

Continuous shooting means

XTi: ClackClackClack
30D: ClackClackClackClackClack
1D: ClackClackClackClackClackClackClackClackCla


LOL! I just figured it's the setting where you take a pic and the camera fires like a maching gun...

[Big Hands]

If you know anybody that has a 90% focus success rate with either a Rebel series and 20D/30D when shooting action sports, my hat would be off to them instantly regardless of what lens they use. The fact is that shooting sports with these cameras leaves something to be desired in the AF department and it's not always the lens' fault.

That said, a lens like a 70-200 f/2.8L on those cameras will offer a noticeable improvement in focus accuracy and speed, just don't expect perfection or close to it.

Regards,
Jeff

[deltroid]

Continuous shooting means

XTi: ClackClackClack
30D: ClackClackClackClackClack
1D: ClackClackClackClackClackClackClackClackCla


Hehehehe! Sounds like the shutter on your three cameras have problems...they're making a very strange sound...I'd send them back! :cool:

[lungdoc]

You could always revert to the tricks many used in the days of manual focus - prefocus on an area you know the horse will be in (a jump rail, for example) and wait for it to get to that spot.

[deltroid]

If you know anybody that has a 90% focus success rate with either a Rebel series and 20D/30D when shooting action sports, my hat would be off to them instantly regardless of what lens they use. The fact is that shooting sports with these cameras leaves something to be desired in the AF department and it's not always the lens' fault.

That said, a lens like a 70-200 f/2.8L on those cameras will offer a noticeable improvement in focus accuracy and speed, just don't expect perfection or close to it.

Regards,
Jeff

Well, this being said, I don't feel so bad in getting so little "in focus" pictures yesterday! :D

Also, I just read a thread talking about how much this Sigma 70-300 f/4-5.6 sucks...so I actually feel good, because I just bought a Canon 75-300 from a user in this forum! Ha!

[cdifoto]

I just bought a Canon 75-300 from a user in this forum! Ha!

Don't expect it to be the end all solution either. It might gain you a few more keepers but it's not exactly a lens geared towards sports.

[ebann]

Continuous shooting means

XTi: ClackClackClack
30D: ClackClackClackClackClack
1D: ClackClackClackClackClackClackClackClackCla

:lol::lol::lol: Great definition! Let's lobby to get that inserted in Webster's Dictionary... if not, Wikipaedia works too!

3 fps doesn't inspire me... many times I want to click in-between those clacks! Therefore I rather bet on my instincts and fast reflexes for that single shot deal. It ain't that bad either because I can keep on clicking one after another, but it'll be a selective and timed click.

I've read that click-n-pray isn't a very good technique. There are times to use continuous shooting and times not to. I think 3 fps cameras are a reason not to.

[Big Hands]

Well, this being said, I don't feel so bad in getting so little "in focus" pictures yesterday! :D

Also, I just read a thread talking about how much this Sigma 70-300 f/4-5.6 sucks...so I actually feel good, because I just bought a Canon 75-300 from a user in this forum! Ha!

I used a Canon 75-300 MkIII to shoot soccer for a few years until I could afford the 70-200 f/4L and then quickly moved to the 70-200 f/2.8L. In good light, the 75-300 will get you by, just don't expect miracles from it.

I wouldn't bother upgrading that (for shooting sports) unless you're going to get something like the Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 or Canon 70-200 f/2.8L. The 70-200 f/4L was better, but it was a lot to spend without really fully getting the results I desired.

Regards,
Jeff

[ebann]

I used a Canon 75-300 MkIII to shoot soccer for a few years until I could afford the 70-200 f/4L and then quickly moved to the 70-200 f/2.8L. In good light, the 75-300 will get you by, just don't expect miracles from it.

I wouldn't bother upgrading that (for shooting sports) unless you're going to get something like the Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 or Canon 70-200 f/2.8L. The 70-200 f/4L was better, but it was a lot to spend without really fully getting the results I desired.

Regards,
Jeff

http://photo.net/equipment/canon/75-300IS/

There are versions of the 75-300. The plain jane 75-300 III, the 75-300 III USM, and the latest 75-300 IS USM. I can tell you that the USM focus helps tremendously as does the IS. I can't say that under overcast conditions the 70-200 f/4L would be better at focusing. The real problem lies with the AF system of the body.

Like they say... once you try the 1D body, you don't want to go back...

[Jon, The Elder]

If you know anybody that has a 90% focus success rate with either a Rebel series and 20D/30D when shooting action sports, my hat would be off to them instantly

I shoot horse events and average 87% keepers.
Most lenses are a little week when the subject is coming at you straight on. Your second shot will often be your best in a burst.

I use center point focus and AI Servo in Av mode most of the time.

[Big Hands]

http://photo.net/equipment/canon/75-300IS/

There are versions of the 75-300. The plain jane 75-300 III, the 75-300 III USM, and the latest 75-300 IS USM. I can tell you that the USM focus helps tremendously as does the IS. I can't say that under overcast conditions the 70-200 f/4L would be better at focusing. The real problem lies with the AF system of the body.

Like they say... once you try the 1D body, you don't want to go back...

I have shot with the 75-300 MkIII USM version as well as the non-USM. If he already has the non USM, then it's not a big deal as it is not the ring-type USM that comes on the 75-300 MkIII USM. If you're going to buy one, the USM version has a better AF.

The 70-200 f/4L has ring-type USM AF and is definitely a superior lens optically, but for shooting sports, f/4 in that focal range left me cold for the money I spent.

For close to the same money, I'd rather have a used Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 for sports shooting than a brand new Canon 70-200 f/4L.

And you are correct, the AF system of the 1D series is money for a sports shooter.

[Big Hands]

I shoot horse events and average 87% keepers.
Most lenses are a little week when the subject is coming at you straight on. Your second shot will often be your best in a burst.

I use center point focus and AI Servo in Av mode most of the time.

"I use center point focus and AI Servo in Av mode most of the time."

As do I shooting with my 20D/70-200 f/2.8L. Are you shooting wide open?

87%, for your true action shots? Horses are a large target compared to most athlete's, but I'm a man of my word. Now, where'd I put my hat......:)

Regards,
Jeff

EDIT: I should have qualified my "hat is off" challenge to mean when shooting wide open. You do have some nice shots in your gallery, but it is clear that they are not shot at anything close to f/2.8.