crap... i think i just talked my way into a semi-paying gig

[ldivinag]

okay...

been flashing my 10D at work (i'm the computer geek for a dept ast a university, so taking pixs aint my bread and butter...).

so i was asked to take photos to put up on our webpage for a graduation ceremony.

i agreed and joked that maybe i can sell prints to the students for a few bucks...

the person in charge, didnt laugh. she was okay with it as long as the dean okays it...

now, the $100,000 questions:

1. how much would you charge for prints? granted will be using a lowly canon 850 printer, with canon's best paper.

2. have just the 10D with 28-135 lens and a sigma 17-35 wide lens... i think it's just the static handshaking or standing with the certificate shots. i think i'm covered there... ?????

3. the built-in flash. that's suitable too... right? it's inside a restaurant/big hall...

anymore things i need or missing? tips???? comments on i should bail????? ;)

[Cadwell]

OK… well first off I don’t rate the built in flash on the 10D. If you are going to do this get yourself at least a 420EX and preferably a 550EX.

Secondly, I would say don’t do it unless you are confident in your own ability. Only you can answer that question. This is a once in lifetime moment for these students…

Just my opinion.

[Andy_T]

Apart from what was just said ... maybe that's the moment to get the 1.8/50.

Best regards,
Andy

[Digital Prophet]

Kudos to you. Hell man if I wanted some kind of payment for my skills I'd have to stand on the side of the road with my Digital Rebel and a sign that said "Will Photograph for Food".

But that aside there are two books I have seen that may help you. One is The Big Picture: The Professional's Guide to Rights, Rates & Negotiations (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0898799694/qid=1083849583/sr=8-6/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i6_xgl14/102-1741568-9824144?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) and the other is Pricing Photography: The Complete Guide to Assignment & Stock Prices (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1581152078/qid=1083849583/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/102-1741568-9824144?v=glance&s=books&n=507846).

On a separate note I kind of agree with what Cadwell says about your confidence in skill. But then again when you look at 90% of graduation/commencement pictures they are horrible. Most of them look like a drunken monkey with a high powered flash took them. So it seems that the main skill required is just being able compose the shot. But hey, everyone has different standards.

- Digital Prophet -

[Andy_T]

BTW, did you search the forum with keywords?

This question has already been asked some times, it's an important and interesting one.

Best regards,
Andy

[PacAce]

If you are going to be shooting graduation pictures, I strongly recommend getting the 550EX or at least the 420EX.

And, with the diploma/handshaking pictures, you're probably going to be shooting those in portrait mode so I would recommend you get something like the Stroboframe Pro-T (or the Press-T if not using the BG-ED3) flash bracket. Without the flash bracket, the vertical shots are going to look unnatural with the flash shadows appearing at the sides of the subjects.

Good luck!

[5 Type]

Here's my opinion,
I did a prom night two weeks ago. It was a first attempt, and I knew that I'm not a pro, and they were aware of it. I took the chance because I wanted to learn from that.

What I did :
I did not ask for anything up-frot
I built them a website, so they you choose the picture they like (if any)
They send me cash, I send them pictures.

My material :
+ Canon 10D
+ 28-135IS USM
+ Canon 550 + OMNIBOUNCE, when handheld (bounced either on the ceiling or 45' depending on the situation.
+ Canon 550 on Manfroto tripond + Photoflex 45'' umbrella for couple shoots at a specific location.

I learned A LOT that night, I'm so thankfull they let me do pictures and learned.

The best thing is, I'm not receiving orders every 2 days, with compliments.

My pics are far from being perfect, my prices too.

[Bruce Hamilton]

Secondly, I would say don’t do it unless you are confident in your own ability. Only you can answer that question. This is a once in lifetime moment for these students…

True, however... If ldivinag has informed the University that he is not a professional photographer (which they should already know, he's the computer gee...err...guru), then the University takes responsibility if the event is ruined for the students. I personally don't think it would be, since the photos are only going on the web site.

[5 Type]

Last thing..... SHOOT RAW, it saved my life on few shoots.

[msvadi]

I'm not a pro, but here are my thoughts.

Most likely, you will need a good flash as fill-in or the main source. So, use that opportunity and buy yourself a 550EX. You will have to bounce the flash. if the ceremony will in a large hall you will need to use some sort of attachment for bouncing. Check out for example "flip-it". It http://www.joedembphotography.com/flipit/ ("flip-it" and a big lens hood will make you look like a pro ;) )

Can you go to the location a couple of hours before the ceremony and practice on somebody?

If you can, go to a similar ceremony just to watch how a pro works. It could be also helpful to talk to a pro photographer about that.

I would also go and talk to the organizers of the ceremony and the people handing out diplomas. May be you can ask them to pause for a few seconds while you taking a picture and discuss what direction they should look at, positions, background.

Also, if you can take several shots of each student.

Basically, I'm saying that you have to plan everything ahead to avoid surprises and know, more or less, how the pictures will look like.

Also, I think that 28-135 may be not fast enough for a situation like that. Getting one of the primes 85/1.8, 100/2.0 or even 50/1.8 (how come you don't have it yet? ;) ) might help. Or may be you can borrow/rent (or even buy :lol:) 70-200 2.8

There was recently a pro photographer taking pictures of a few of us for our department newsletter. It was quit interesting to look how he works. It took him about 10 minutes to find the right location, background and positions.

[jgbeam]

Fresh batteries! What if the pace of the diploma handouts is faster than the recycle time of your flash? Will you be able to say "Wait a second while my flash recharges."?

Jim

[Section 8]

My wife graduated twice. We recieved crappy pictures twice at the cost of $5.00 apiece.

I recomend filling the images with as much face as possible. If you get the hat and robe to belly-button or bottom of the rip cage height, you will be that much better off. Get the person handing out the diplomas to hand them a little high to accomplsh this to still get the diploma if this is where you decide to take pictures. Everyone is going to look the same save skin color and hair color if you frame the image to far away.

Even if you just get the hat, everyone knows whats going on, its the facial expression that is going to tell the story in the photos.

Also check your background, and discuss it ahead of time with the ceromony people to stand a little cock-eyed to get the picture so that you don't have the person standing in the robe.... right infront of 10,000 other people wearing the same robe. One of my wifes pictures is her head and hand holding a diploma floating in space becasue of this.

Another optin is to have a "posing" area as they come off the stage. If the school has a flag, stand them infront of that. You lose the "real" facial expression, but you can get a better picture of the graduate with their diploma.

I can snap a picture of the two that I have of my wife that are on the wall to see how bad they are if you want. I admit that it all isn't the photographers fault, but I would have hoped for better pictures at $5.00 a pop.

Lastly , GO TO THE REHEARSAL and test your stragety, and make changes as needed if possible.



Greg

[ldivinag]

thanks all...

FWIW, it's not a cap and gown graduation.

its a year-end banquet where students are awarded scholarships...

payment: free dinner... lol

(hopefully, i can sell one or 2 pixs...)

also, i was told that for the past 10 years of the banquet, there IS NO "official" photos from the event so the person in charge was glad that i mentioned it...

[msvadi]

how did it go?

[bdavies926]

>>crap... i think i just talked my way into a semi-paying gig<<

Careful - that's the way it all starts!

Your post reminds me of exactly how I started. 17 years ago I was working as a honeymoon resort "photographer", and only for about two weeks at the time. All I knew was how to set the lens at F 8, the auto flash on F 8 & how to focus--and all my buddies thought I was "a professional photographer" now! And the worst part was, so did I.

Anyway, one of my buddies who was planning his wedding say's, "You're a photographer now, how about shooting my wedding?" Well, we were in a club where the drinks were flowing VERY freely (oh, how I miss youth) and I reply with, "Sure, and I can even do it for a LOT cheaper than what these other guys are charging"! Me and my BIG mouth (well, the beer didn't help too much either.).

Well I shot the wedding (with a BORROWED Nikon FM 2 & Sunpack 544 flash!), shaking in my boots the whole time. THANK GOD everything turned out OK. It ended up actually costing me a couple hundred bucks though, because when I quoted him a price I had NO IDEA how much it cost to actually produce a wedding album!

Now, 17 years later, that's all I do - about 50 weddings per year, 350-400 high-school seniors per year and a lot of other odd portrait sessions & events. Full blown studio with 4 full-time employees. Went from part to full time, from 35mm to medium format and now to digital.

I would agree that the flip-up flash on the camera is definitely not adequate and that you should go with something bigger, and also bring LOTS of batteries for the flash. And, know your equipment.

Other than that, Go for it! When I first started out some people were telling me that my equipment wasn't good enough, I had very little experience, etc., etc. Well, If I waited till ALL of the traffic lights were green before pulling out of my driveway, I'd never even get OUT of my driveway. Go for it. Enjoy the process. It'll be fun & you'll learn some things, too.

Whenever I bump into that old buddy of mine, I always say, "See what you started?!!"

[aam1234]

" Manfroto tripond + Photoflex 45'' "

Can you give us an idea about those, what are they. They sound very interesting.

Thanks[/quote]

[MarkH]

A quick comment on flash:

I bought a 550EX and so far have only given it a proper run on one occasion, on that occasion I found the E-TTL metering not consistant enough and ended up getting consistant results by using manual settings on the flash with M on the camera (10D).

My advice: spend the extra on a 550EX over the 420EX, the option of manual settings alone is worth it.

Also: With an external flash like the 550EX you should have a freshly charged set of batteries in the flash and at least one spare set of freshly charged batteries, no point having a camera and flash with no power to run them.

[5 Type]

I’ve have bought the following items to make my setup work with my 10D.
- Lighting stand
- Umbrella
- Mounting bracket
- Hot shoe adapter
- PC Cord

And now in details


Lighting stand

MANFROTTO
SUPER STAND / Cat. No: 269 => Bogen code (USA only): 3079
Manufacturer code:269U

:: Anodized aluminium stand with one leveling leg.
:: 4 sections, 3 risers.
:: ø: 50, 45, 40, 35mm
:: Leg ø: 30mm

http://db.manfrotto.com/fileindexednew/module2/item/file0000728.gif
http://db.manfrotto.com/product/templates/templates.php3?sectionid=220&itemid=6



Umbrella

PHOTOFLEX
45’’ RUT Umbrella

:: Parabolic-shaped reflector - which provides large circular light source to render circular catchlight in eyes
:: Convertible - provides great reflection, but it can also be used as a "shoot-through" umbrella by removing the black cover
:: Fabric - 190 thread count, tightly woven allowing superior reflection
:: Folds down like a traditional umbrella which makes it easily portable

http://www.photoflex.com/photoflex/products/umbrellasRut/300/umbrellasRut.jpg
http://www.photoflex.com/photoflex/index.html



Mounting Bracket

PHOTOFLEX
Shoe Mount Multiclamp

:: Cast aluminum construction - will support heavy weight and hold up against tough working conditions
:: Incredibly versatile -

http://www.photoflex.com/photoflex/products/shoemount/300/multiclamp.jpg
http://www.photoflex.com/photoflex/index.html



Hot Shoe Adapter

NO NAME
Hot shoe adapter – we need this because the 550 EX doens’t have a PC input connector

Converts regular shoe to hot shoe. Uses external PC cord to camera PC connection

http://www.camerastore.com/dl_cat_E/DL-0136.JPG
http://www.camerastore.com/dl_cat_E/-E06_flashadap.html



PC Cord

NO NAME
Cord – you will connect you camera to the hot shoe with this cord.

:: Feature right-angle sockets, Male-Female PC straight extension cords.

http://www.camerastore.com/dl_cat_E/HA-6971.JPG
http://www.camerastore.com/dl_cat_E/-E09_pccords.html



The results

1st time real use of this equipment

:: I twas done at my friend’s prom night.
:: Nothing was asked up-front
:: A web-site was built for ordering.
:: My impressions about that night – I need a reflector or another light to fill the TOOOOO STROOOONG shadows

http://www.jsl.studiosj.com/shooting/20040425-bal/photos/slides/CRW_3313.jpg
http://www.jsl.studiosj.com/shooting/20040425-bal/photos/slides/CRW_3517.jpg

[BobbyC]

Other than the advice on the 550ex, I would look very hard into the archivability rating of that printer. These folks are going to want these pics to last. You should be able to find a local lab that uses a frontier and get very reasonable prices. Mark up that price to what you want to make and go for it! It's something they've never done before and no one is out anything if it doesn't go right. You gotta start somewhere!

[ldivinag]

how did it go?

will, it went okay...

biggest mistake was not telling the award presenter to pose with the presentee.

so half the time, i was trying to time them when they shook hands and have them look at me.

of course a few shots had the presentee looking somewhere else.

i spaced out on not getting the 550ex... BIGGEST mistake. thanks for all the advice on it...

so i ended up with tons of redeye and having to fix it.

lessons learned...

(plus i wont even mention the sigma lens that decided to take a dump on me...)

[PhotosGuy]

Suggestion: If you're only using one light, put it where it makes the female look best. No one cares how the guy looks! :lol:
(Practice on your friends).