580EX II with Better Beamer?

[wcameron]

Hi. I just managed to get my hands on a new 580EXII to use with a Better Beamer. I have recently switched to digital and this is my first telephoto flash work. I am using a Digital Rebel Xti, 100-400 Zoom, Flash and beamer. The following image shows the flash too powerful. It was taken with just the default settings in ETTL mode and Prog on the camera. I've now changed the flash to -1 2/3 flash exposure compensation. That may help.

Can you help me get the most of using this setup for wildlife and birds? Here are a few questions:

1. What is the best flash and camera modes to use? Do you use High Speed Sync?

2. What other advice can you offer?

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[jrsforums]

I have a beamer and 580, but am far from an expert....but here are some thoughts....

* While I expect high speed flash would work, you will drop you max. flash output (relative to regular mode) by about 2 stops....so the results will probably not be what you desire.

* As you probably already know, the beamer "beam" is dependent on the flash zoom, so you will probably want to manually set it. Good article on that here: http://www.naturephotographers.net/tdg0502-1.html

* I assume the XTi has FEL and it works similar to the 20D/30D/5D. FEL will set the ETTL-II flash metering to "averaging" and the metering area to just within the circle of the view finder (partial, except for 5D, which is spot). Probably would be best to set the ambient metering also to partial/spot.

And finally, as the referenced article says..."Experiment, and it will lead you to the light"....a.k.a. practice, practice, practice.....

[CyberDyneSystems]

I use this set up for fill flash when birding..

I Manually set Flash to 50mm (this is what the BB manual recommended) however having just read the above linked review, I will certainly try 24mm!!!!

I shoot mainly (85%) in AV mode, setting EC as if there is no flash on board,. I just try to get the right exposure.

I always use minus 2/3 to minus 2 full stops FEC on the flash...
The hope of course is to get the color and light from the flash to fill shadows, but not to look to much like a flash was used.

High speed synch is always turned on, as I do want the natural ambient light exposure and in AV that could easily mean higher shutter speeds. if I leave it off, and something happens fast I risk over exposing with the ambient exposure and shutter stuck @ 250th sec..

Of course there are times when full manual comes into use,. or the flash has to be main light, but that's rarely how I use it.

[PacAce]

I use this set up for fill flash when birding..

I Manually set Flash to 50mm (this is what the BB manual recommended) however having just read the above linked review, I will certainly try 24mm!!!!

I shoot mainly (85%) in AV mode, setting EC as if there is no flash on board,. I just try to get the right exposure.

I always use minus 2/3 to minus 2 full stops FEC on the flash...
The hope of course is to get the color and light from the flash to fill shadows, but not to look to much like a flash was used.

High speed synch is always turned on, as I do want the natural ambient light exposure and in AV that could easily mean higher shutter speeds. if I leave it off, and something happens fast I risk over exposing with the ambient exposure and shutter stuck @ 250th sec..

Of course there are times when full manual comes into use,. or the flash has to be main light, but that's rarely how I use it.

After reading the whole article above, I would think that you would want to avoid 24mm, not use it. :confused:
Based on that article, 50mm is still the best compromise. :)

[Curtis N]

High speed synch is always turned on, as I do want the natural ambient light exposure and in AV that could easily mean higher shutter speeds. if I leave it off, and something happens fast I risk over exposing with the ambient exposure and shutter stuck @ 250th sec.. The alternatives to HSS without risking overexposed ambient are as follows:
1) Make sure custom function 16 (Safety Shift) is turned on. This will shift the camera to Tv mode and stop down the aperture if the shutter speed is limited to flash sync. I can't think of any reason not to leave this function turned on all the time.
2) Use Tv mode at 1/250 or slower.
3) Manual mode at 1/250 or slower, adjusting aperture for desired ambient exposure.

These options are not necessarily better or worse than using HSS. It depends on the situation and your priorities. Staying out of HSS mode will extend your flash range and speed up recycle times, but 1/250 may not be fast enough to avoid camera shake with long lenses.

[Franko515]

The alternatives to HSS without risking overexposed ambient are as follows:
1) Make sure custom function 16 (Safety Shift) is turned on. This will shift the camera to Tv mode and stop down the aperture if the shutter speed is limited to flash sync. I can't think of any reason not to leave this function turned on all the time.
2) Use Tv mode at 1/250 or slower.
3) Manual mode at 1/250 or slower, adjusting aperture for desired ambient exposure.

These options are not necessarily better or worse than using HSS. It depends on the situation and your priorities. Staying out of HSS mode will extend your flash range and speed up recycle times, but 1/250 may not be fast enough to avoid camera shake with long lenses.

Curtis, does the above hold true for people shots, or only birding (where the lenses are longer)?

[Curtis N]

Those alternatives are valid generally for outdoor flash. The camera shake issue usually won't be a problem until you approach 200mm, but that also varies from person to person.

[wcameron]

Thanks for all the great tips. I will definitely try them out. Curtis you stated in your post "Make sure custom function 16 (Safety Shift) is turned on. " Is this a camera or a flash custom setting. It is not an option on my Xti or my 580EXII so I'm guessing it's available only on more expensive camera bodies.

Here's what I have gleaned from the posts:

For Fill Flash
1. set the flash to 50mm zoom
2. set exposure compensation somewhere between -3/4 and -1-3/4
3. use High Speed Sync to allow for fast action scenes

What about darker scenes such as dawn and dusk? Should I just set it to program mode with no exposure compensation?

[Curtis N]

Curtis you stated in your post "Make sure custom function 16 (Safety Shift) is turned on. " Is this a camera or a flash custom setting. It is not an option on my Xti or my 580EXII so I'm guessing it's available only on more expensive camera bodies.You're correct. It's a camera setting, and I keep forgetting it's not available on the RebelXT or XTi.

[wcameron]

No worries Curtis. I'll keep it in mind when I can update my camera body (dreaming of a D1 mark III).

[CyberDyneSystems]

The things is , I keep finding HSS working for me quite well,.
I realize it is not as powerful as you get when synching properly, and that it adds extra battery drain,. but IMHO if the **** fits, wear it!
It's not disappointed me once.

[CyberDyneSystems]

After reading the whole article above, I would think that you would want to avoid 24mm, not use it. :confused:
Based on that article, 50mm is still the best compromise. :)

I thought I might try it for super long lenses, but yes your right, 50mm makes the most sense unless you test for a specific working solution at 24mm..

That said,
I guess like my post above, 50mm has not failed me and works well, so I might as well stick with it.

[Rudy M.]

If the BB adds about 2 stops of focused light to what your flash outputs normally, if you shoot in high speed sync mode on the flash and have your shutter speed 2 stops faster, wouldn't the amount of light be the same as your flash output without the BB at 1/250 normal flash sync?

Second, after reading the above article, it looks to me that 50mm setting on the flash is still the best--but how do you know you have the BB on the flash correctly every time with out shooting a wall first--every time you mount it on the flash? I haven't used mine much but hope to soon, but I am going to find a nice wall and take my son's archery range finder and see just what this thingy does!

[jrsforums]

If the BB adds about 2 stops of focused light to what your flash outputs normally, if you shoot in high speed sync mode on the flash and have your shutter speed 2 stops faster, wouldn't the amount of light be the same as your flash output without the BB at 1/250 normal flash sync?


The only case where it is important is when you need the maximum output for the flash (which at long distance will likely be the case). In that situation, the answer is YES. Reason is that you will lose 2 stops going from regular flash to FP (high speed) flash., but gain 2 stops with the BB

The above assume that you will be increasing the aperture 2 stops to compensate for the 2 stops in shutter. ..i.e. constant exposure

If you do not need max. output, then, of course, ETTL-II (if you are using that) will adjust for you.

[wcameron]

Boy, today I was playing with the beamer at a great horned owl nest. The young were slightly shaded in the foliage of a spruce. They were at least 50 ft away and the beamer actually left me with red eye to fix later. Who would have thought at that distance?

[PacAce]

Boy, today I was playing with the beamer at a great horned owl nest. The young were slightly shaded in the foliage of a spruce. They were at least 50 ft away and the beamer actually left me with red eye to fix later. Who would have thought at that distance?

Thought what? That you can light up a bird at that distance or that you could have red-eyes? :confused:

[wcameron]

Sorry to confuse. I just didn't expect the red eye at that distance. It's quite prominent in the large eyes of a great-horned owl. I have been very surprised by the amazing range with my beamer (actually a Kirk model).

[PacAce]

Sorry to confuse. I just didn't expect the red eye at that distance. It's quite prominent in the large eyes of a great-horned owl. I have been very surprised by the amazing range with my beamer (actually a Kirk model).

Were you shooting with the flash attached to the camera or did you have it off camera and up high. The farther up you take it, the less the chance of getting red-eyes. Of course, the farther the subject, the farther away you'd have to keep the flash from the camera to elimiate red-eyes..

[wcameron]

The flash was on camera. However even the off-camera adapters I've seen for the beamers (wimberly etc) still keep it pretty close to the lens axis. I would also worry about aiming the beamer if I take it too far off camera. How have you dealt with off camera placing of the beamer?

[blonde]

i use the wimberley flash bracket to take the flash off the camera and it does infact work great. of course, you do need to adjust the flash gun and BB a bit to make sure that you are shooting over the lens but not over your subject but that is easy enough..

[PacAce]

The flash was on camera. However even the off-camera adapters I've seen for the beamers (wimberly etc) still keep it pretty close to the lens axis. I would also worry about aiming the beamer if I take it too far off camera. How have you dealt with off camera placing of the beamer?
You can get an extension (at least for the Wimberley, the M-6) that'll take the flash even farther away from the lens. As for the aiming of the flash, the extension has a notch on it so that you can tilt the flash up to 3 degrees downward to better aim the flash at the subject.

[wcameron]

Thanks I'll check out the wimberly extensions.

[wcameron]

I'm getting the hang of this now. I'm actually trying to put together a tutorial on using the Better Beamer, or in my case the Kirk Flash X-Tender. Here are a few images. This one is without using the flash. it is of a young great-horned owl. It is typical of a lot of bird images, with harsh backlighting. The trick is finding a way to fill in the shadows without losing the dramatic feel of the rim lighting on the owl.

175802

Here is the link with the flash set at -1-2/3 FEC to reduce the effect of the flash and prevent over powering the scene. The challenge is to have a flash powerful enough to fill in the shadows without overpowering the scene.

http://mountainnature.com/images/photography/techniques/wardc_070517_3723-400px.jpg

I'm slowly getting the hang of it. One thing I didn't expect was red-eye from 60 feet away. This was followed by the challenge of neither Lightroom or Photoshop CS2 recognizing the red eye and needing to find alternate red eye solutions. The tutorial will expand on these as well.

At the same time, I learned the danger of bright sunlight with a fresnel lens. I spent half an hour photographing some Clark's nutcrackers high in the tree tops. My Canon 580EX II was less then a week old. Here is what I found when I got home.

175810

Ouch! suddenly my brand new flash looks like one of my tired Vivitar 283s. Luckily the burn marks didn't penetrate the plastic housing of the flash. It will live on to (hopefully not) get burned again.

The working copy is at http://www.mountainnature.com/photography/techniques/flash/betterbeamer.asp but please be gentle with me. It's my first photo tutorial and the first of many I hope. i appreciate advice on how to make it both informative and inclusive. Check back regularly because it is changing by the moment right now.

Thanks for all of your help. This forum rocks!

[PacAce]

Nice examples of shooting with and without the flash and BB.

If you do get that BB tutorial written up, I'm sure a lot of members here would benefit from it and be very appreciative of your effort. :)

[wcameron]

Thansk Leo. I've updated my previous post with both links to the tutorial --- very very preliminary. It will be at least triple the length when finished but I have thick skin and look forward to everyone's ideas on how to make it truly useful.

Here are a few areas that I plan on expanding:
-guide number and the effects of beamers
-experiments to show when to use the beamer vs when to just use your flash without
-photographs with Wimberly's off-camera adapter
-dealing with red-eye with your beamer

I'm looking for advice on how to use the beamer when shooting from a vehicle or blind. I've not figured these things out yet.

Thanks for all the support.

[Rudy M.]

Holy Cow! You mean the sun through your fresnel did that to your flash? You must have had it held just right for quite some time to that to occur! You didn't smell burning plastic? Awesome shot of the owl and nice demo of with and without fill flash--what lens did you use and how far away from the owl were you, and were you in a blind or camoed up, or just walking along and happend upon him--or is this shot from a nature preserve or zoo?

[PacAce]

Yes, that's the danger of having the BB lens attached all the time. The only time I attach the Fresnel lens is when I'm using it. Then I take it off again because I don't want to have to constantly know where the sun is relative to the Fresnel lens. It's a pain but I'd rather endure that then worry about burning a hole in my flash or lens hood the whole time the lens is attached.

I thinking of putting something together that'll provide a top and bottom sides to the BB assembly with a little bit of extension in front of the Fresnel lens to serve as a sort of hood. That way, the sun can be kept out of the lens except when the sun is almost directly in front of the lens.

[wcameron]

Hey Rudy. It happened very quickly and I didn't notice anything. I will definitely be much more careful in the future. I only had the Fresnel lens on the flash when I was using it but I learned that a quick lapse in judgment can potentially have major consequences.

I was using my 100-400 with a 1.4 converter and the 580ex II along with my Kirk Flash X-Tender. Great horned owls are funny. Unlike most birds of prey that can be very aggressive when you get near their nest, these owls could not have cared less. There were kids, dogs, bikes - all manner of disruption around them all the time.

I was up a small hill, giving me a nice eye-level perspective about 50 ft away. I had no cover. I first discovered the next along my local bike path when I saw a group of people watching it. I then made almost daily pilgrimages for the last week and a half of their nesting time. Owls will sometimes use the same nest annually so I'm hoping to check it out much earlier in the season next year. I still did not get a half decent shot of the adults.

I have struggled with this lens combo as I'm quite new to it, but I'm finally beginning to be much happier with my results. My next step is to test my new winberly bracket to get the light a little farther from the lens axis.

Leo, let me know whether you have any success with your covering. It will sure help prevent simple errors.

[PacAce]

While I was in my library down in the basement this evening, I found a black 3-ring binder with a flexible plastic cover. This was exactly the material I needed to make my top and bottom sides for the BB to keep Fresnel lens hidden from the sun. I created a paper template using the BB mounted on my 550EX flash as a guide. Below is what the template looks like.

176343

A pattern for a BB used on other flashes can be made very easily by placing the BB mounted on the flash and tracing the outline of the top side of the BB on a piece of paper.

I transferred the pattern to the front cover of the 3-ring binder and cut it with a scissor. I then used a ruler to fold it at the thin white line shown in the pattern after I scored the line with a Phillips screwdriver. I did the same for the bottom side using the back cover.

Below is a picture of the top side attached to the BB. I didn't attach the bottom side so that you can get a better idea of how it looks attached to the BB. I used two rubber bands to hold the top and bottom sides in place until I can find a better solution.

176344

I shot a couple of test pictures using the modified BB with a 200mm lens and the "hoods" of the modified BB did not cause any type of vignetting.

With the top and bottom sides in place, I think the chances of burning a hole in my flash or lens hood is greatly reduced. As long as I remember not to point the BB and flash towards the sun, all should be fine. :)

I'm thinking maybe I should line the inside walls of the BB with aluminum foil so that if the Fresnel lens is inadvertently pointed at the sun, it won''t burn a hole in the walls. The sun ray will just get harmlessly reflected off the shiny surface of the foil.

[PacAce]

I completed putting the finishing touches (added the side pieces) to my BB this morning and this is what it looks like now.

176490

[wcameron]

Very cool. Do you have a template for the side pieces?

I can't believe more members are not interested in this thread.

[PacAce]

Very cool. Do you have a template for the side pieces?

I can't believe more members are not interested in this thread.

The side pieces were just improvs made out of scrap pieces I had left over. But I can make a template for you tomorrow since I'm off to bed within the next 15 minutes.

The BB is a specialty application so I can understand why there aren't too many interested in it or in this thread. :)

[bieber]

I don't have a Better Beamer yet, but I'll be looking to get one in the near future. Thank you VERY MUCH for pointing out the burning hazard; it's not something that had even crossed my mind...

[wcameron]

Thanks Leo. I'm going to give your technique a try this week.

Bieber. you'll love the beamer. It makes the impossible possible. Now that I've used one I'll never be without one. The real trick is to dial back the flash power when you are using it for fill flash so that it doesn't overpower the image and leave a typical 'flash' style photo.

[PacAce]

Very cool. Do you have a template for the side pieces?

I can't believe more members are not interested in this thread.

Here's a scan of my side piece. I cut notches in the side pieces and the front part of the top and bottom pieces so that they interlock but I'm thinking velcro tape strips might work just as well or probably better to attach all these pieces together.

The side piece and the top/bottom piece patterns are to scale so if you print these patterns at 72 ppi, you'll get a life-size pattern.

176915

[EDIT: I just realized that my original top/bottom piece pattern was 840 pixels wide. When I uploaded it here to post it, it got resized to 800 pixels wide so the pattern is actually smaller than it's supposed to be. If you resize it to 840 pixels wide again, you'll get the true pattern size.]

[wcameron]

Thanks again. I have a few days off coming up. I'll definitely give it a try. As you can imagine I'm a little paranoid of causing increased damage to my flash.

[Eagle i]

subscribing

[tkoutdoor]

subscribingTwo year old thread! LOL

[SYS]

I could use this 2 year old info... :)

[tkoutdoor]

I could use this 2 year old info... :)Yeah, me too. I had been planning to do this to my Better Beamer, but had forgotten that I saw it here first. I had it bookmarked from a couple years ago and it just showed up again when he posted. The other thing I'm thinking about doing is making a fold over front cover that would just fold up and out of the way when I'm using the flash, but would drop over the fresnel lens in between usage so I don't burn up stuff due to the magnified sunlight bouncing around inside the Better Beamer onto the flash etc.

[SYS]

Yeah, me too. I had been planning to do this to my Better Beamer, but had forgotten that I saw it here first. I had it bookmarked from a couple years ago and it just showed up again when he posted. The other thing I'm thinking about doing is making a fold over front cover that would just fold up and out of the way when I'm using the flash, but would drop over the fresnel lens in between usage so I don't burn up stuff due to the magnified sunlight bouncing around inside the Better Beamer onto the flash etc.

Good thinking. Just add the "front cover" to the template. When shooting, just fold it up and tie down with a rubber band, and when not using, just let it fold down... :)

[tkoutdoor]

Good thinking. Just add the "front cover" to the template. When shooting, just fold it up and tie down with a rubber band, and when not using, just let it fold down... :)
Yeah, or have it hinge somehow possibly and when it flaps back up it could be secured by a couple of velcro tabs, etc. All theory at this point on my end.

[Methodical]

Now make it a 4 year old thread. Leo have you applied for a patent yet for this. I will have to look into making one for my BB.

[PacAce]

Now make it a 4 year old thread. Leo have you applied for a patent yet for this. I will have to look into making one for my BB.

Nope, no patent.

Good luck with yours. :)

[JJD.Photography]

Does the extended cover make the BB completely safe in sunlight?

[PacAce]

Does the extended cover make the BB completely safe in sunlight?

No, it does not. If the sun hits the BB from the front where there is no cover (for obvious reasons), the sun can still do damage to the front face of the flash lens. But if the flash is pointed at least horizontally or downward towards the ground, that is not likely to happen.

[JJD.Photography]

No, it does not. If the sun hits the BB from the front where there is no cover (for obvious reasons), the sun can still do damage to the front face of the flash lens. But if the flash is pointed at least horizontally or downward towards the ground, that is not likely to happen.

Good enough and just what I expected. Thank you.