Problems with 550EX Flash on Canon D60

[PetPhotoGuy]

I realize that this topic has probably been discussed previously, however I am looking for advice to a rather odd situation. I have a Canon D60 and am trying to do pet photos with a 550EX flash. About every other photo is coming out completely underexposed. This occurs with brand new batteries, waiting in between shots to allow the flash to recover, etc. I have sent the camera, flash and one lens in to Canon on three seperate occassions (it has been in and out of the shop since December, 2003). They send it back with no comments, and the camera continues to underexpose shots. I have tried shooting in all modes, but without much luck. The small photo business that I have trying to start has been essentially shut down as a result, as this is the only camera that I own (having sunk $3,000 or so into the equipment). Has anyone else been able to get a 550EX flash to work on a D60 body? I am currently using a Canon 28-135 IS USM lens (after Canon Technical Support told me that they would not even try to help me until I purchased a Canon lens). Any advice would be greatly appreciated, as I feel that Canon has essentially ignored me on this issue.

[robertwgross]

(1) You need to clarify what you mean by completely underexposed.

(2) You are shooting RAW, aren't you?

(3) We don't know what modes or settings you have on the camera or on the flash, so it is difficult to comment.

In general, with my D60 and 550EX, there is no fundamental problem. Sure, there are several user problems that I stumble into, but then I find my own problem trend and correct it. It is entirely possible to have bad communications between the body and the flash, but that should be observable and able to be isolated and then repaired. Once you isolate the problem, you can either repair or replace that one item.

I don't think you'll get much help from Canon on this. They need a specific hardware complaint to attack.

---Bob Gross---

[Mike H]

There have been many posts on this, but I doubt that reading them will help with your specific situation. Fear not, the equipment you have can do this type of photography very well if you set the camera and flash correctly.

Let us know more about the conditions you are trying to shoot under. Will you be in the same location all the time, or do this on location? If it is in your own location, please describe the setup. Indoors or out? How large is the space? If indoors, what colors are the walls and ceiling? This will help us figure out how to solve the problem.

The D60/550EX automatic flash metering is dreadful (I used it for a short while and gave up once I learned what the problems were in the design). However, we can come up with manual settings that can work very consistently for you and give your clients results that they will be happy with. And you won't need any new equipment.

Mike H

[PetPhotoGuy]

Hi, all. Thanks for the response. At the moment, I am not shooting RAW, however one of my local camera techs suggested that I try this, as RAW mode apparently allows for much greater flexibility in exposure correction. In general, I am shooting dogs and cats (hey, gotta start somewhere) on location in the owner's home. Sessions are typically indoors, under a variety of conditions (different color dogs, variable color on carpeting, etc.) I generally try to maintain a shooting distance around 4-6 feet, to allow for animal movement, etc. I originally tried the camera in full auto mode, and the lens typically set to autofocus with IS turned on. However, the exposure results were so wildly unpredictable, that I switched first to the sports mode (that little runner icon) quickly followed by full manual. Manual seems to give the best results, although even under this scenario the flash exposure output seems fairly questionable. I have tried metering off of my subjects to get a feel for the best settings in manual mode, however the unpredictable nature of the flash output makes this quite a challenging task. With Canon, I have submitted several disks from various photo sessions (thinking that the Exif information will help them to locate the problem). One final note, I had the opportunity to borrow a collegue's 1-Ds (sweet) for a photo session while my poor D60 was in the shop. I rented two 550EX units (powered by generic AA batteries) and ran the camera in P mode (shooting just jpeg without the RAW files) during the entire shoot. We shot an average of 30 photos of 50 different dogs (fund raiser) and the camera performed flawlessly! That's what I'm hoping to see with my D60.

[Mike H]

Okay, here's my recommendation.

You should start by setting the aperture, shutter speed, and flash to manual. I recommend using bounce flash, since it gives a better light quality. Also, this will reduce the tendency to get that bright blast of light in the pets eyes.

Since your distance is fairly constant, you will want to do a test and determine what power setting to use at that distance. Naturally, when you go to a different location, you will need to make some adjustments. But this way you will have a good starting point, and you will get good at making the adjustments after you have done it a couple of times.

Here are some numbers to sink your teeth into. Again, with the camera in manual mode, put the shutter speed on 1/60 and the lens at f/8. The 1/60 should be high enough to prevent ghosting, and the f/8 setting should give good performance with that lens. Also, since pets tend to move around, you will want to have some depth of field. With portraits of humans, we try to use very shallow depth of field since a blurred background helps concentrate attention on the subject. But pets are much harder to control, so you need some margin for error. Try the ISO at 400 to start, as this is the highest noise-free setting for the D60. Even with bounce flash and an f/8 setting, this should give you reasonable recycle times.

Using those settings and the flash pointed at the ceiling (almost directly up), take a shot starting with the flash set at 1/2 power. If it's too dark, crank up the power; if it's too light, do the opposite. Note the power setting, ISO, shutter speed, and aperture when you get a good exposure at the distance that you want to work.

When you shoot a job, put yourself at the same distance to the pet and start with those settings. Your first few shots will be test shots to zone in on the right exposure. Explain to the client that your first few shots will be just tests to optimize the camera settings. (That way you will look like a perfectionist, rather than a guy who can't figure out how his camera works!)

Once you have the right manually-set power level on the flash, you can stay on that setting and shoot away as long as you don't change the room or shooting distance. Of course, if you do change those things, you will know how to adjust by then.

The beauty of doing it this way is that you won't need to even think about the D60/550EX metering system; it doesn't matter how bad it is, you're not using it. Nor will it matter if you are shooting a black dog or a white one; the workings of the meter will have no effect on your manually set exposure.

Keep in mind that the further you work from your subject, the less sensitive this method is to small changes in flash to subject distance. Hence, if you find this to be a problem, try working 6 to 8 feet away instead.

After you have this down, you'll want to experiment with all of the settings to optimize your method. The better you get, the more consistent your results, and the more you will shoot with confidence.

I hope this helps. Good luck.

Mike

[PetPhotoGuy]

Mike, thanks very much for the recommendations and tips! Especially what to tell the client whilst fiddling with those test shots. I will try this out (when next the camera returns to my clutches). Until then, I will tipple an ale of good quality in your general direction! Thanks to all for the kind responses!

[Brianbar]

I agree with what Mike said about bouncing the flash off the ceiling.
I did wedding photography years ago, and photos at the home works great using the bounce flash.
But there are thinks you should be aware of, the ceiling must be white and the walls also need to somewhat of a neutral color, as a bright green, red etc. can cause this color to give that tone on the photo.
Wouldn't it nice if flashes worked like they did years ago, none of this BS, we almost need to take a degree in the use of Canon flashes.

Brian.

[Brianbar]

Sorry for the typo (But there are thinks ) should be "But there are things"

Sorry about that

Brian

[Mike H]

I'm glad I could be of some help.

Brian brings up a good point about the color of walls & their effects on the color of flash. If the client has a room with white walls and ceilings, use it! If not, you can start by shooting a white card (maybe a poster sheet) when you are setting your exposure. When you go through processing the image (converting from RAW to JPG or TIFF), you can use this to set the color balance.

You might be able to help yourself when shooting in a room like that. Try to stay away from the walls if you can, as the light from the ceiling will dominate more if it is white and is closer to the subject than the walls. If the ceiling is not white and the walls aren't either, it might be tough to get colors right on. This is one area where digital is tougher than film, as it is very sensitive to color temperature differences.

Another way to combat this would include bringing white light panels to block light from reaching the walls. You could set them on both sides of the subject. I would do that as a last resort, especially if you don't own them already. They're not free, and would take some time to set up.

If the color can't be set just right, you might want to mention to your clients (and I would wait for them to notice if it's subtely off) that it's impossible to get *perfect* color unless you are in a studio, and the benefits of on-location shooting (convenience for them, comfort for the pet) would be lost if you worked that way. And if that doesn't work, tell them about how artsy black and white images are ... :D

Mike

[neil_r]

My D60 is perminantly set +2 stops for the 550 and I have no problems.

thats my tuppence :)

N

[Saturn]

Hello:

Used the D60/550 combo a few days ago for a retirement party of a CEO @ a Fortune 500 company, so top quality was required or I was dead! :shock:

After about 5 minutes, I was able to understand the quirks of this combination, and how to compensate using the flash-exposure-compensation on the D60 body. My flash compensation was anywhere from 1/2 to 1.5 stops overexpose. Backlighting required the most overexposure. An off-center subject required a normal exposure, or maybe a bit of under exposure. It's easy to access the exposure-comp button and again, after 5 minutes, the adjustments I needed to do were somewhat intuitive. I must also say that the type of compensations required were much like the film compensations I did when using my EOS 3 and transparency film.

This combo is not as good as my film-based cameras, but it's not as bad as has been reported on various chat sites (in my opinion). I must admit though, that the 550 on the 10D is much more accurate.

Thanks.

[Tom W]

Saturn, just out of curiousity, do you use flash exposure compensation on your 10D as well? How much do you use?

[Saturn]

I use exposure comp on the 10D, just not as much. The 10D reacts more like my film camera (EOS3). I've found that unless you're using a completely manual flash with guide numbers (the most accurate method in my opinion), any automated on-camera flash unit will require some degree of exposure compensation more than 50% of the time.

Thanks.

[Tom W]

Thanks!

I just got the 550 and it seems to be working very well with the 10D so far. I haven't had much of a chance to practice with it, since I'm working nights this weekend, but all indications are that it should be quite workable with my 10D. I did notice that it seems (IMHO) to be a little less susceptable to dark vs. light subjects under the active focus point than was my 380EX, but I haven't done enough shooting to confirm that.

I've also found that I'm generally happy with +1/3 stop flash compensation as a general setting. Different conditions will, of course, requires some adjustment.

[tracyh]

I hope you don't mind that I tack on to your post. I've been struggling with the 550ex and my D60 as well. I'm using it in a fixed location as portrait lighting. I'm using the ST-2 transmitter on camera with the 550ex as the main and a 420ex as fill (both bounced into umbrellas). I've gotten such unpredictable results that I decided to try using the flash in manual mode. I've read about and tried all the suggestions in this forum (use the FEL button, fresh batteries, change to manual focus, etc.), but still seem to be having trouble with widely varying exposures. Thus, the decision to try manual flash.

The 550 manual seems to indicate that using the flash on a manual setting in a wireless situation (like I have) is do-able, but when I select "M"anual on the flash, it just keeps flashing (like it won't take that selection with the way I have it set up). The flash also won't fire if left that way (with the "M" flashing). When I switch it from being a slave to a master, then it stops flashing.

Does anyone know if having the flash set on slave is restricted from use in the manual setting? Am I forgetting something totally obvious?

Thanks for any advice....
Holly

[robertwgross]

Holly, let's back up a half step.

Start by telling us all of the controls and indications selected on the ST-E2.

Then, what are all of the controls and indications selected on the 550EX.

Now repeat that on the 420EX.

With all of those controls set that way, what happens? Be specific.

Step by step.

---Bob Gross---

[yenoram]

I use my D60 with a 420EX so I can't address your problem from direct experience, however, I do recall having similar underexposure problems when used in combination with a 28-135IS. As ridiculous as it may sound, I remember there were numerous threads dealing with underexposure with the D60/28-135IS combo. I finally caved in and bought a 28-70 2.8L and I've had very few problems since.

[tracyh]

Hi Bob,
Sorry.... I forget that everyone hasn't been living this with me! I originally tried using the ratio on the ST-E2, with the 550 in group A and the 420 in group B. I also had a hairlight being triggered in there, but took that out of the equation since you mentioned that it may be fooling the preflash metering. I have a small continuous light for lighting the background, and I'm just using "P"rogram mode on the camera. I usually end up with shutter at 60 and aperture at f4. Everything defaults to ETTL under this set-up.
What I was trying to accomplish was this same set-up, but bypassing the ETTL and just setting the 550 on manual. I hadn't messed with anything on the 420 with that, but was hoping (based on what I read in the manual) that I could still trigger everything wirelessly, but with a manual flash output. Of course, now that I write this, I realize that I probably need to get the 420 in the same group with the 550 now that I'm not using the ratio, but I don't believe that should be hurting anything?
Thanks for all of your help. I've learned alot about flash from you and this forum. I would really like to get this nailed down!
Thanks, Holly

[PetPhotoGuy]

Man! I wonder off for a couple of days only to find my post has been hijacked and folks are talking about the ST-E2 remote! :P The good news is that I have mollified myself somewhat with the purchase of a new Canon 100-400 IS lens. As far as the 550EX/D60 problem, the nice folks at my local camera store (e-mail me for cheap plugs and glowing recommendations) recommended that I (1) try out all of the recommendations from this posting and (2) play around a bit with P mode, as opposed to full auto. I'll have to report back on the results. Thanks again, however, for all of the recommendations. Now...about that ST-E2 issue...

[robertwgross]

Holly, sometimes when you have a problem, you get too close to it to see any way out. Step back and describe it step by step, and sometimes just the practice of describing it in detail to somebody else will let you see room for a solution.

On the STE2, you can set for ratio of 1:1, if you want. But I don't know why you want to jump to manual everything. If your flash exposures are consistently low, then you can do FEC to kick them all up. As soon as you jump over to manual everything, then you are taking full responsibility away from the camera's intelligence (however lacking that might be).

If you keep both flashes in the same slave group, then ratios are stuck 1:1. If you keep them in different slave groups, then you can use other ratios.

---Bob Gross---

[tracyh]

Hi Bob,
My problem with trying to stick with ETTL was that it wasn't consistent. I could deal with it if it were consistently low or consistently high, but it seemed to be all over the board. The other downfall was that I couldn't use the hairlight since it was being triggered in the preflash. It was also a bit too embarrassing to have to ask my subjects to do a shot 3 times just to get the exposure close... and I started to lose focus on positioning of the subjects, composition, etc.
On a good note, I did just discover my issue with the flash not firing in manual mode. Once I switched to manual mode on the camera as well, everything triggered just fine. I must have overlooked that in the manual. With the output at half, it seems to work well in my current set-up and I can deal with small exposure changes due to different backgrounds and subjects with the exposure compensation... and at least know that it will be consistent. I'm not sure if ratio works in manual mode or not, though... I'm not really seeing a difference when I bump it in either direction. I can get around that by moving the fill, so it's not a huge concern. But... I do agree with your point that it's a shame to throw away all of that technology.
I'm not giving up on ETTL. I will keep trying to make that work, but it's good to know that I can get consistent results this way.
Thanks again for your patience and help!

[robertwgross]

My problem with trying to stick with ETTL was that it wasn't consistent. I could deal with it if it were consistently low or consistently high, but it seemed to be all over the board.

OK. We've all seen that a bit. I can't say anything for sure, but if I had to guess, I would guess that it is some subtle detail of how you are metering.

When you first see a problem like this, you won't see a consistent trend. But if you study it enough, you will eventually get to the place where you can consistently make it happen or not happen. Then you are halfway to solving it.

Suggestion: Get a fuzzy stuffed animal for a model. They work cheap. If possible, get one that is not pure black or white. A tan stuffed teddy bear might be helpful.

Hi Bob,
The other downfall was that I couldn't use the hairlight since it was being triggered in the preflash. It was also a bit too embarrassing to have to ask my subjects to do a shot 3 times just to get the exposure close... and I started to lose focus on positioning of the subjects, composition, etc.


Yes, I tried working with a continuous hairlight, off at 90 degrees to the right. It was a quartz worklight with a handmade aluminum reflector, and it cost me about ten bucks, including the stand.


On a good note, I did just discover my issue with the flash not firing in manual mode. Once I switched to manual mode on the camera as well, everything triggered just fine. I must have overlooked that in the manual.


You would not be the first Canon user to overlook something in the manual. I have to re-read mine every couple of months, and I always learn something new.


But... I do agree with your point that it's a shame to throw away all of that technology.
I'm not giving up on ETTL. I will keep trying to make that work, but it's good to know that I can get consistent results this way.


ETTL may not be perfect, but it is a hell of a lot easier than anything I had before.

---Bob Gross---