New to Canon and going to learn wedding shooting...need help on choosing gears

[canotographer]

Hi all, I 've just decided to switch from Minolta to Canon, so I am new here and need to buy everything from zero. I am going to do wedding photography as hobby ( 1 in June and 2 in August and probably in September) and I will start to learn more about (and do more) wedding day shooting down the road. My question is which camera (s) and which lens to choose. I have read many posts and reviews in the past few days. I have three potential line-ups in front of me and cannot really decide which way to go although each are very similar.

As I was from minolta background, I am kinda spoiled by the IS idea(we call it AS there) for long time, so I will prefer to buy IS whenever it's possible. And I need low light for wedding.. so fast glass is important. Budget is not a big issue but I do want to minimize it if I can. I owned all of the top G zooms and some top G fixed from minotla so I would like to replace them by equi. L lens whenever is possible.

Line-up #1 and this is my first choice:

EOS 5D
EOS 30D
EF 16-35/ 2.8 L Mark II USM
EF 24-105/ 4 L IS USM
EF 70-200/2.8 L IS USM
EF 85/1.2 L Mark II
580 EX Mark II flash

Line-up # 2
EOS 30D X 2
EFS 10-22/ USM
EFS 17-55/2.8 IS USM
EF 70-200/2.8 L IS USM
EF 85/1.2 L Mark II
580 EX Mark II flash

Line-up #3
EOS 5D
EOS 30D
EF 16-35/2.8 L Mark II USM
EFS 17-55/ 2.8 IS
EF 70-200/2.8 L IS USM
EF 85/1.2 L Mark II
580 EX II flash


I guess th ebig question is the 24-105/4 L IS USM fast enought for low light indoor and in the church. I know 17-55/2.8 IS USM will do a great job. But I don't want to buy both standard zoom at the same time. .

So, which one should I get? I prefer #1 myself ...

Thanks for your advice in advanced.

Best,

Mark.

[Banbert]

Welcome to the forum, I am relatively new myself and have found this place a great source of info and inspiration, I am sure youve made a great choice to switch to canon !

For me 2 identical bodies makes a lot of sense and you should have 2 flash guns minimum in case one fails.

[clengster_77]

i'll pick lineup #1 but as banbert stated, it's really better to have atleast 2 flash guns

[clengster_77]

...and welcome to the forum! :)

[th3r0m]

I would go with option 2 for the identical bodies, but if you went with option 1 why the 24-105? Why not the 24-70 f/2.8, you already have the 70-105 range covered by the 70-200 and price wise they are pretty close but you pick up another stop of light, which is always nice for weddings.

[tim]

My suggestions (with little regard for budget). This is what I would buy if I was starting afresh.

30D x 2 (too much distortion at wide angle in 5D, not enough value for money)
580EX II x 2 (would love the auto mode, helps prevent blinkers on ettl preflash)
17-55 F2.8 IS (beautiful lens, i'd almost buy two)
70-200 F2.8 IS (2nd sharpest lens I own, love it)
50mm F1.4 (helpful not essential, I love it for portraits at F2, 85mm F1.8 or F1.2 possibly better)
100mm F2.8 (ring and sometimes flower shots, low priority, sharpest lens I own. Be careful of your own reflection in ring shots)
12GB CF (depends on your style, 12GB = 1200 shots usually more)
Flash bracket until you understand light (haven't used mine in a year)
Tripod and bracket to secure 580EX to tripod (love off camera light, I use wireless ETTL)
Probably other stuff I forget

A guy who works for/with me shoots with a 5D and 24-105L. The photos are *really* sharp, but I *hate* the distortion at 24-35mm. I way prefer the 30D with the 17-55 with a similar field of view. 28-300L is really useful for it's range and sharpness across the range, but so so heavy, and you have to use flash as the main light source inside.

Too much typing. Tired. Ask questions of us all.

[Padawan Dad]

Everything Tim said. I agree with everything he said 100%! It's like he's reading my mind :cool:

[tim]

Bill, you have been assimilated ;)

[picturecrazy]

Why would you want the 85mm F/1.2L?? It's known to be a slow focusing lens. The 85 1.8 costs about $1400 less and gives you better focusing. With the money you save, you could get a second 580ex, a sigma 30 1.4, and either the 60mm macro. (or the 100mm like tim said if you have the extra cash) I also think the 5D is overrated.

[tim]

Just another thought, the 85 1.2L is really, really slow to focus, and is really heavy. It's not very useful for weddings, where people generally refuse to stay still. I don't like shooting wider than F2 anyway, too little DOF.

[GertS]

Welcome to the forum,

It's surprisingly a lot of money you want to invest for a hobby. Have you ever shot a wedding before using your Minolta gear?
I don't recommend spending that much money, what happens if you don't like it?
Will you shoot as main photographer or second shooter?

Shooting weddings is not that easy as it looks like. Once I found in a German forum some really funny arguments for becoming a wedding photographer:
- it's well paid
- you take some snap shots
- there is always good food available

You should have seen the comments after his argumentation. Everybody was just laughing. :lol:

Back to the thread. Tim mentioned the probably best combination. 8 MPix is fine for really most shots. I have a 5D but use it only as low light camera due to very little noise at 1600 ISO. My workhorse is the 8 MPix 1D Mark II.
As a beginner you have not the time and experience to switch lenses quickly, so have 2 bodies with 17-55 and the other 70-200 with you. This gives you the best choices.

Tim mentioned 12 GB in cards, memory is cheap, expect 10 MB per RAW file, know how to process raw files before the first wedding. Take 2 GB / 4 GB cards as maximum size, if one fails, you are in trouble. Have always a spare empty memory card in your pocket!!!

The 85 / 1.2 is quite heavy and not often used. When do you need that shallow DOF you can do with this aperture? Really seldom. The 1.8 version saves you money and weight and it will suit better for the beginning. If it really turns out that your need the 1.2 version, not many pros own it, you can still get it, but for beginning it just an overkill.

Have two flashes, electronic gear might fail in a very important moment, so that you can switch immediately.
You forgot the spare batteries for flash and camera, IS can be power demanding.

Important: Use your gear before the first wedding that you know it!!! Learn shooting at low and mixed light.
Its not "professional" if you need the manual during the wedding. ;)

Keep in mind that you have to carry your gear too.

Good luck

[canotographer]

Welcome to the forum, I am relatively new myself and have found this place a great source of info and inspiration, I am sure youve made a great choice to switch to canon !

For me 2 identical bodies makes a lot of sense and you should have 2 flash guns minimum in case one fails.
Yes, I have to agree with you, Banbet.. this place is truely amazing filled with a lot of amazing photographers...

[canotographer]

i'll pick lineup #1 but as banbert stated, it's really better to have atleast 2 flash guns

Thank you for your input. I am thinking that way too.. but the problem is lineup #1 does not give me a standard zoom with F2.8/IS ( fast, steady, and great bokeh)... something very useful in lowlight situation such as wedding. ..

And I am sure I will get 2 flash guns...I will use SPII or the WT from gary fong as well.. Any other Canon flash you can think of will perform well besides 580 EX and 580 EX II ( like how about the lower models)?

[canotographer]

I would go with option 2 for the identical bodies, but if you went with option 1 why the 24-105? Why not the 24-70 f/2.8, you already have the 70-105 range covered by the 70-200 and price wise they are pretty close but you pick up another stop of light, which is always nice for weddings.

Hi Th3r0m
Thank you. I, too, think identical bodies make a lot of sense...And yes.. I do need the extra stop from the 2.8 and nicer bokeh from it too... But I really want to have the 16-35L/2.8 Mark II on a FF body .. that's why I prefer lineup 1 with a 5D. But I know line up 2 will save me quite some money....

The only reason for not taking 24-70/2.8 is that it's not an IS lens. I am so spoiled by the IS thing ( AS in minoilta/SONY) . All the lenses I used in the alpha mount are automatically an IS lens becuase it's built in to the camera body... So I will pick an IS lens over an non IS. Even with clean high ISO, fast glasses and short focal length such as stand zoom or even wide zoom, I know from my experience that IS does help and it does make a big difference (at lest in my case)... that's why I did not pick the 24-70. But again, you are so right, you remind me again I do need 2.8 for wedding. I think I will lean toward to get a 30D with EF-S 17-55/2.8 IS instead of the L lenses...

Many thanks for your help.

[liza]

LIne up # 3 with two flashes, a tripod (optional), 10-12 GB of memory, a 50 1.4 instead of the 85L, extra batteries, and a 100mm macro lens.

[canotographer]

My suggestions (with little regard for budget). This is what I would buy if I was starting afresh.

30D x 2 (too much distortion at wide angle in 5D, not enough value for money)
580EX II x 2 (would love the auto mode, helps prevent blinkers on ettl preflash)
17-55 F2.8 IS (beautiful lens, i'd almost buy two)
70-200 F2.8 IS (2nd sharpest lens I own, love it)
50mm F1.4 (helpful not essential, I love it for portraits at F2, 85mm F1.8 or F1.2 possibly better)
100mm F2.8 (ring and sometimes flower shots, low priority, sharpest lens I own. Be careful of your own reflection in ring shots)
12GB CF (depends on your style, 12GB = 1200 shots usually more)
Flash bracket until you understand light (haven't used mine in a year)
Tripod and bracket to secure 580EX to tripod (love off camera light, I use wireless ETTL)
Probably other stuff I forget

A guy who works for/with me shoots with a 5D and 24-105L. The photos are *really* sharp, but I *hate* the distortion at 24-35mm. I way prefer the 30D with the 17-55 with a similar field of view. 28-300L is really useful for it's range and sharpness across the range, but so so heavy, and you have to use flash as the main light source inside.

Too much typing. Tired. Ask questions of us all.

Thank you for your thoughtful help. Really appreciate it!

I think I will have 30D with 17-55/2.8 IS on one hand and have the 70-200/2.8 L IS with the 5D on the other... Guess this way would cover pretty much at least 75% of the shots on the wedding day.

And Yes.. I will need to get 2 flashes...I am kinda indifferent in term of buying flash as long as it works well with the SPII and my cameras... Do you suggest other choices besides 580 EXII? Thank you.

I actually will use 50/1.4 on 5D for the ring shot ( to get the shadow DOF).

And you are right, I need to buy more some CF.. now I only have 6GB in total. 3x2GB. I plan to get two 8GB cards and use the 3 2GB as backups...

Thank you again.

[canotographer]

Everything Tim said. I agree with everything he said 100%! It's like he's reading my mind :cool:

Thanks!

[canotographer]

Why would you want the 85mm F/1.2L?? It's known to be a slow focusing lens. The 85 1.8 costs about $1400 less and gives you better focusing. With the money you save, you could get a second 580ex, a sigma 30 1.4, and either the 60mm macro. (or the 100mm like tim said if you have the extra cash) I also think the 5D is overrated.
Hi, picturecrazy
I almost bought a minolta AF 85/1.4 G before I decided to switch to Canon.. It's my dream portrait lens. That's why I looked for an equvi lens from Canon's lineup and I eyed on this 85/1.2L Mark II. And I admire the creamy bokeh it created...quite close to SONY/Minolta STF135/2.8 's bokeh(but still not there)...And with the two bodies I will buy (30D/5D), I will have the flexibilty to choose the focal length and true DOF I want with this lens.

But You are right, 85/1.8 is much cheaper.. tho the bokeh is not quite the same...But I want to try it first and see if I like it. So, I will take your advice and drop the 85/1.2L Mark II at this point...:(

Thank you!

[tim]

17-55/70-200 will cover 95% of the images you take at a wedding, I think. The 50 1.4 is a great lens but it can't focus close enough to get a good close up ring shot, for that you need a macro lens. Re flashes given how much else you're spending you might as well go for the best and get the latest. Single button head rotate is invaluable, pull out white card is invaluable, i'd love auto mode to help prevent blinks.

Let's hope the 580EX III brings an RF wireless ETTL option.

[canotographer]

Welcome to the forum,

It's surprisingly a lot of money you want to invest for a hobby. Have you ever shot a wedding before using your Minolta gear?
I don't recommend spending that much money, what happens if you don't like it?
Will you shoot as main photographer or second shooter?

Shooting weddings is not that easy as it looks like. Once I found in a German forum some really funny arguments for becoming a wedding photographer:
- it's well paid
- you take some snap shots
- there is always good food available

You should have seen the comments after his argumentation. Everybody was just laughing. :lol:

Back to the thread. Tim mentioned the probably best combination. 8 MPix is fine for really most shots. I have a 5D but use it only as low light camera due to very little noise at 1600 ISO. My workhorse is the 8 MPix 1D Mark II.
As a beginner you have not the time and experience to switch lenses quickly, so have 2 bodies with 17-55 and the other 70-200 with you. This gives you the best choices.

Tim mentioned 12 GB in cards, memory is cheap, expect 10 MB per RAW file, know how to process raw files before the first wedding. Take 2 GB / 4 GB cards as maximum size, if one fails, you are in trouble. Have always a spare empty memory card in your pocket!!!

The 85 / 1.2 is quite heavy and not often used. When do you need that shallow DOF you can do with this aperture? Really seldom. The 1.8 version saves you money and weight and it will suit better for the beginning. If it really turns out that your need the 1.2 version, not many pros own it, you can still get it, but for beginning it just an overkill.

Have two flashes, electronic gear might fail in a very important moment, so that you can switch immediately.
You forgot the spare batteries for flash and camera, IS can be power demanding.

Important: Use your gear before the first wedding that you know it!!! Learn shooting at low and mixed light.
Its not "professional" if you need the manual during the wedding. ;)

Keep in mind that you have to carry your gear too.

Good luck

Hi Gert,

thank you for taking the time to write me your advice! This is truelly helpful and thoughtful. I, therefore, re-evaluate my need again after reading your post..

This is the first time I shoot wedding but I mainly shoot stage, low light and natural light a lot with my minolta glasses ( which combined the benefits of AS, clean high ISO, Fast lens advatages)... I know wedding is very different...so ture.. I have a lot to learn from all of you. Fortunately, money is not a big issue to me. and I don't see that I will stop pursuing photography as my hobby or my second career. And there is always POTN buy/sell forum and ebay around...selling used gears cannot be easier...:)So, I do not mind putting the kind of money to it.

I thought of the 17-55/2.8 and 70-200/2.8 combo idea and I still think this idea makes the most sense in wedding situation. And that's why I have my third line-up there.

And thanks for the reminder regarding the CF and batteries. I will not forget to bring enough spares. Thank you for your help again!

[canotographer]

LIne up # 3 with two flashes, a tripod (optional), 10-12 GB of memory, a 50 1.4 instead of the 85L, extra batteries, and a 100mm macro lens.

Thank you Liz.. I think I will build a new line up based on line-up # 3. Will include some of the advices from you guys on this thread.... And Sure I will add a macro there.

Thank you again!

[Time Thief]

And you are right, I need to buy more some CF.. now I only have 6GB in total. 3x2GB. I plan to get two 8GB cards and use the 3 2GB as backups...

Thank you again.
As suggested before, you might want to consider 3 or 4 more 2GB cards instead of the one or two 8GB. What happens if that one card fails and 75% of the wedding is on that card. The bride and groom are going to be MAD when you have absolutely nothing to give them. If one 2GB card fails and you have 3 others then you only have lost about 20% of your shots and you still have most of the wedding covered. Just a thought. Good luck and, Welcome!

[canotographer]

As suggested before, you might want to consider 3 or 4 more 2GB cards instead of the one or two 8GB. What happens if that one card fails and 75% of the wedding is on that card. The bride and groom are going to be MAD when you have absolutely nothing to give them. If one 2GB card fails and you have 3 others then you only have lost about 20% of your shots and you still have most of the wedding covered. Just a thought. Good luck and, Welcome!


Thank you and good point. ,,but I will shoot Jpg+Raw..2GB seems too small in size to be efficient...maybe 4x4GB will work

[Time Thief]

My 30D shooting raw+jpeg with a 2GB card will hold 148 pics. So 4GB is about 300 pics. Again thats with a 8mp camera. The 5D at 12mp is a little bit different. Can't help with that one as its a little bit expensive for me. hehe