Couple wants all images with everything in focus

[buffalophotographer]

I have a wedding reception(250 guests) coming up and the couple are not fans of background blur expecially the formal pictures. They want all the images taken with everything in focus. Any ideas on what lens I should use and with what settings? I am shooting at a area with a small water fall and a few small manmade ponds.

[sblais]

Just use as small an aperture as you can get. Increase your ISO as necessary to get a decent shutter speed.

[SuzyView]

Use your 24-70 with small aperture (f8-f11) and see what you get. Like above, increase your iso. I would shoot Av. Set the aperture and put the ISO around 1000.

[gateruner]

Theoretically I would say any of the lenses will work as you need to just set the aperture to something in the f12 range and shoot away. You will have to watch your lighting with it stopped down the entire time.

You might consider taking alot of the shots as they request and taking a duplicate shot while opening up the lens just to give them a choice. They might actually like the bokeh after they see it.

[picturecrazy]

That's a strange request. I would probably turn them down because I always shoot wide open (2.8 or 1.4) when the light gets low. Sounds like a pain!! I couldn't imagine shooting at F/11 all day long. My flashes would burn out!

[sblais]

Also, make sure that you understand exactly what they want. It may be that they just want to be able to see the background for memories and only for the formals. If this is the case, then it is very reasonable and can be easily accommodated by using a small aperture for these shots.

[tim]

I'm with Lloyd. Run away, run away now. People who make exception requests are generally exceptionally troublesome.

[Lin-z]

I'm with Lloyd. Run away, run away now. People who make exception requests are generally exceptionally troublesome.


Me too... they will probably be the type of people that remember EVERYTHING you do and after you proof the wedding the bride will be like "I remember seeing you take a picture of a waterhose, and I don't see that picture here, and I also remember you taking a picture of somelady and I don't see that here" blah blah

[deltroid]

Depending on light, using F/11 or higher will force you to use very low shutter speeds, and consequently increase the risk of motion or camera blur. Also, depending on the environment, portraits will come out with a very dark background, if I'm not mistaken...

I'm a newbie, so please listen more carefully to what the others have to say... :)

Even to a newbie, it does sound like a weird request...maybe they've had bad experiences before which made them think, for some reason, that blurred backgrounds are a bad thing.

[buffalophotographer]

After I talked to the client I understood their request. They wanted to make sure the scenery was in focus as well as the subject even though most clients prefer the focus to be on them. I am sure I can accomodate that outside but inside will be pain as I have to set up strobes in the banquet hall to light it up and fire tehm with pocket wizards. I do try and accomodate all kind of clients as I am sure it will be a great learning experience.

[zacker]

inside too?? isnt there going to be tons of motion blurr and people standing in the way of the strobes and such??? this seems like one of those "not worth the aggrevation" jobs!

[SuzyView]

Everything in focus indoors is so hard. The blur issue is real. You are going to have to make some demands of your own in this case. If you can express to the group in the shot to stay perfectly still while you shoot, that will help, but a slow shutter 1/60 or less means you are risking blur and a lot of your shots may be wasted. Make sure you preview on a wider screen than your LCD to check on focus periodically. Good luck. I would really try hard to convince the client that indoors, bets are off on scenery in focus.

[tim]

Have a disclaimer, make it say you will give your best effort but guarantee nothing. Make sure they understand the options. I still stand by what I say below. I'm not sure i'd take this job. People choose me because they like what I do, if they want something else i'll do my best, within reason, otherwise another photographer might be a better choice for them - ie an old guy with a huge flash shooting at F16.

I'm with Lloyd. Run away, run away now. People who make exception requests are generally exceptionally troublesome.

[buffalophotographer]

I am going to try and push ISO800 at this event(indoors) and see how it works. The good thing is that there will be 2 photogs and 2 video guys and we are going to light up the hall. I do agree with the previous poster about the inside shots as those are going to be real tough.

[sumozebra]

I'm with tim on this one 100%, though since u're gonna be a man i suppose and attempt this challenge, disclaimer that u'll do your best but guarentee nothing, orelse it's just more crap in your alleyway. Though a quantum flash with a nice big powerpack might work good for wierd requests like this. I might just go with F8 or F9, should be enough to get most things in focus, but still enough light to give u a fast enough shutter speed..

[jcpoulin]

With your camera's listed, especially the 5D, you can push ISO 1600 comfortably...or so I am told!

[GertS]

People choose me because they like what I do, if they want something else i'll do my best, within reason, otherwise another photographer might be a better choice for them - ie an old guy with a huge flash shooting at F16.

Tim, you forgot the grey filter which lets only 1/8th through. :lol:

Recently I was very happy that I had this filter with me, it was so bright outside (1/1000th, F8, 100 ISO). I had to use a fill flash for reducing strong shadows in the faces.
However, I used F4 for narrow DOF. ;)

[cosworth]

Wide angle and really come to terms with hyperfocal distance focusing. Most DOF calculators will do hyperfocal.

[johneric8]

whats really strange about this question is that anyone shooting a wedding and is getting paid should already know the answer to that question !!! Wow, I can't imagine taking money for a wedding not knowing how to stop my camera down... I'm not trying to be hard on ya bro I'm just amazed at some of the questions people ask in regards to shooting certain events... If you stated you are new to this and not getting paid I would totally understand so, if you are just that please forgive me... >>>>

[cosworth]

I agree, the lack of photographic knowledge by many confessed wedding shooters is alarming.

An "eye" for shooting and knowing how to make a soft focus or glow effect in Elements or a cracked versiion of CS3 doesn't ensure wedding success. At least they are here asking how to do certain things.

[Atl-Fotos]

Would this be a time where you would have to explain the limits of providing "good" quality images to a client? Not to say that you will not attempt to give them what they want but it sounds like they are used to looking at out door pictures from P&S. If you do work with them I agree with Tim..... Disclaimer in the contract.

[buffalophotographer]

whats really strange about this question is that anyone shooting a wedding and is getting paid should already know the answer to that question !!! Wow, I can't imagine taking money for a wedding not knowing how to stop my camera down... I'm not trying to be hard on ya bro I'm just amazed at some of the questions people ask in regards to shooting certain events... If you stated you are new to this and not getting paid I would totally understand so, if you are just that please forgive me... >>>>

I am asking for other people's opinion and experience in situations like this. What I did not ask was a direct assault on my capability. I am very well versed in how to use my camera and how to make the best of all situations. This was an unusual request and hence I posted the question for opinions and your post seems to belittle my abilities. Its a shame.

[cosworth]

BP, I don't see it as a belittling, just an observation that many new wedding photographers are inexperienced in the nuances of achieving photographic effetcs.

Simply by asking you opened yourself up for critique. Take it with a grain of salt.

[sapearl]

Have they seen actual samples of your wedding work?

Giving you the benefit of the doubt, I'm assuming you have some very nice examples of indoor reception and "other" shots that show the subjects in sharp focus, but unimportant things like background tables, chairs, lights, waiters, etc. out of focus. I mean, why would anybody want to have their attention drawn to things like that?

I'm going to speculate that these potential clients may have seen some bad examples of somebody else's poorly composed work, and don't understand how SELECTIVE FOCUS will ENHANCE the quality and aesthetics of a well captured image. Showing them good examples of high quality work with selective focus will go a long ways to proving your point. Otherwise these could be problem clients.

I was once contacted by a pair of attorneys to shoot their wedding. The first thing they did was to take my simple one page contract and add 2 pages of addenda to it. One of the stipulations they made was that "all pictures taken will be in perfectly sharp focus". Now, this was almost 20 years ago, autofocus was not really available in pro gear, and there was no such thing as sharpening.

I struck that sentence out and firmly but diplomatically explained that what they wanted WAS NOT reasonable. Perhaps that can be achieved in a studio under controlled conditions, but NOT during the helter-skelter of wedding day excitement. They saw my point, removed most of the addenda, and were overjoyed with my work. Everybody went home happy.

I still have a nagging suspicion that it's not an issue background blur that they don't like, but perhaps somebody else's mediocre photography that didn't impress them. Maybe somebody showed them a bad album. I think you really need to sell the concept better, and not get locked into a problem job. It's on you now if you accept the gig and they aren't happy. Receptions don't offer much lighting lattitude. - Stu

[jj1987]

F16 and be there!

Seriously, run. Let the couple find another photographer that makes them happy, don't change your style for a client.

[sapearl]

Have they looked at any other photographers or are you the first they've shopped? It sounds like they really are not familar with the way event converage is handled.

A worse possibility yet - maybe they've only seen seen wedding photos done with the those little f/22 disposable cameras and figure everything should look like that?:rolleyes: I don't know, the request mystifies me a bit.

[moviemaker]

Me too... they will probably be the type of people that remember EVERYTHING you do and after you proof the wedding the bride will be like "I remember seeing you take a picture of a waterhose, and I don't see that picture here, and I also remember you taking a picture of somelady and I don't see that here" blah blah

LMAO :0)

I know exactly what you mean. I have had a few like that. :mad:

[sapearl]

Did these folks strike you as unreasonably demanding, or just not really familiar with how pros do their work?

I have a wedding reception(250 guests) coming up and the couple are not fans of background blur expecially the formal pictures. .........

[buffalophotographer]

It was quite a unusual request but they still booked me because they liked my work. They did have bad experience with their sisters wedding and hence the request. I am sure I can handle it but just wanted to share other people's experiences in situation like these.

[sapearl]

Sounds like a plan then ;) .

Just so long as they saw examples of your work and know how you shoot, showing backgrounds artistically out of focus, and you explained to them what you can and cannot do, then I think you will be in good shape.

As I suspected, it was somebody else's poor work that set them off; I had a feeling about that :lol: .

It was quite a unusual request but they still booked me because they liked my work. They did have bad experience with their sisters wedding and hence the request. I am sure I can handle it but just wanted to share other people's experiences in situation like these.

[hef]

I've taken weddings for quite some years and never had that request as BP has. Although i think i'm pretty good at what i do that request would get me a little nervous. I think BP was just getting some opinions on how you all would do it. He's been around for awhile and i've seen some of his work, and it's fantastic. A job's a job, not every one is as easy or hard as the next. But this group is supposed to help out our fellow photogs with advice and support not make stupid remarks.

[buffalophotographer]

BP, I don't see it as a belittling, just an observation that many new wedding photographers are inexperienced in the nuances of achieving photographic effetcs.

Simply by asking you opened yourself up for critique. Take it with a grain of salt.

I did take it with a grain of salt-My point is that if this was a discussion between a few photographers and someone asks a question or mentions a clients request then would it be fair or even polite to make comments like that.

[jcpoulin]

You have to admit...when someone lists thousands of dollars worth of equipment, than asks what lens and what settings to use for a greater DOF, one can read this with some questionable experience! Perhaps the question really is how to approach the couple who requested these picture styles. The mechanics of getting a greater DOF should be fairly obvious.

[hef]

You have to admit...when someone lists thousands of dollars worth of equipment, than asks what lens and what settings to use for a greater DOF, one can read this with some questionable experience! Perhaps the question really is how to approach the couple who requested these picture styles. The mechanics of getting a greater DOF should be fairly obvious.

I wouldn't think that at all. I've shot weddings for over 30 years and have had no requests like that from any customer. I'm sure I would be able to figure it out, but support from my fellow photogs could be very re-assuring.

[jcpoulin]

One potential solution would be to run two camera set-ups.
Primary would be with camera with the more preferred open settings, with more reasonable ISO's, less flash, and better shutter speeds.
The second shooter would run stopped down with higher number fstop, higher ISO and slower shutter ( whatever needed to gain proper exposure). This would work with formals especially as you can work side by side.
This is less than optimal and much more work, but you would be sure to capture her needs. I would have a feeling that they would prefer the limited DOF shots when they compared them!!

Another suggestion would be to go and shoot some scenes and people using both settings prior to the wedding. Show the bride and groom the differences that each of the settings result in and let her/them pick which style. ( Also a great personal experiment!)

[hef]

that's a good idea jcpoulin. i think i'll actually try it at an upcoming event rotating my cameras. i haven't got used to the no flash thing yet at weddings but i see a lot of photogs doing it. they must use high iso to do what they are doing with good L glass. I just can't get myself to try it yet, it rubs against every grain of what i've learned over the years.

one wedding, the photographers did not use any flash....including at the reception indoors. i saw the photos after and i just thought they were a little grainy...but that's me.

i'm sure BP will appreciate the advice.

[liza]

While I don't mind reasonable requests, I don't allow clients to dictate things that impact my images artistically. People like that tend to be a huge PITA. I don't think I'd take the job.

[buffalophotographer]

One potential solution would be to run two camera set-ups.
Primary would be with camera with the more preferred open settings, with more reasonable ISO's, less flash, and better shutter speeds.
The second shooter would run stopped down with higher number fstop, higher ISO and slower shutter ( whatever needed to gain proper exposure). This would work with formals especially as you can work side by side.
This is less than optimal and much more work, but you would be sure to capture her needs. I would have a feeling that they would prefer the limited DOF shots when they compared them!!

Another suggestion would be to go and shoot some scenes and people using both settings prior to the wedding. Show the bride and groom the differences that each of the settings result in and let her/them pick which style. ( Also a great personal experiment!)

The 2 camera shoot sounds great JCPOULIN. I do have a second photographer working with me anyways and I can just assign him to open it up.

[mizuno]

People choose me based on my style, not theirs.

[johneric8]

I'm sure my photography brethren will agree that with experience you just have an innate ability to judge depth of field at a given distance..... I agree with some previous post that mentioned to put a disclaimer in the contract to protect both parties! If someone wants to use you they will have no problem with that.. The couple thats hiring you wants to see you take charge, if you don't they won't be comfortable... I'm not slamming you Bro, I was just shocked that someone with experience would ask such a question...

[Jonny]

I have a wedding reception(250 guests) coming up and the couple are not fans of background blur expecially the formal pictures. They want all the images taken with everything in focus. Any ideas on what lens I should use and with what settings? I am shooting at a area with a small water fall and a few small manmade ponds.


It seems strange to me that with such a comprehensive list of kit you are asking advice on settings to use. Surely having spent that amount of money you know how to use it?

Personally i would advise the couple that you respect their wishes and will comply if that is definately waht they want but i would try to persuade them otherwise. Use examples to show them them why photog's use a narrow dof sometimes.

[song4themoon]

Wow, with such a request I think I would decline the wedding. For my case it is not my style to shoot with everything in focus and I would not feel good being forced to work in a style thats not me. If they dont like my style, dont book me.

Also they may very well regret they asked for it ones they see the results as it will likely look flat and boring with the background distracting.. and then I wouldnt be surprised if it was turned around to be your fault.

[Rumjungle]

I'm seeing some red flags here. I agree with some of the others here and would take a pass. If you do take this job, perhaps you might want to pack a P&S? Sounds like that would give the result they're looking for.:)

[sumozebra]

imo, unless u make up a really damn good clause in your contract, this job can come back and bite you in the ass... unless i'm getting paid a very very good amount, i wouldn't take this job, and basically also what song and mizuno said

[Mario.]

I would definitely decline a request like that and agree with what Tim and others have said. :)

[hef]

I don't know about declining. I see it as a challenge. You never know though, it could be one of the best weddings. I look back on some of mine and of course i've had my share of problem ones. At least he knows right off the bat that it could be troublesome. It's worse when you arrive to the wedding and it appears to be a nightmare.

[sapearl]

I wouldn't decline either - nothing like a good challenge, as long as you make yourself VERY clear about what you will and will NOT do. They have seen your samples, they know your style... there are no surprises, or should not be just so long as you have explained yourself.

Business is business and this sort of thing makes you stronger and better at dealing with clients. It will benefit you in the long haul. You'll have a signed contract and as long as that is well written you'll be in good shape.

I only turn away business if I'm already booked, if there's inconvenient travel involved or if there is a major conflict with my regular job.

[mmahoney]

Although I'm only starting to do weddings I would certainly take the job and ensure the couple fully understood the additional technical requirements associated with their request(s).

My contract has a section called "Additional Considerations" which in some cases is completed and initialled by both the couple and myself and forms part of the contract. In this situation I would detail their particular request along with a some information about the difficulty of obtaining those types of photos and put a non-guarantee of performance statement in the "Additional Considerations" section.

Technically you should have no problems outdoors as the light will enable you to comfortably stop down to F11. Indoors will be a different story and trying to get a lot of DOF without bringing a lot of lighting may be difficult.
Mike

[hef]

who loves ya baby... you guys are great... BP... what's up?

[mediamst]

They sounds like a major pain in the ass. I would decline as well :) But then again, I have enough work.

[hef]

too much work or not... i'd do it. it's a constant learning process.

[overclock]

I'd just use a P&S. Obviously that's what they're used to.

Sorry for bumping an old thread.

[Az2Africa]

I'm with Lloyd. Run away, run away now. People who make exception requests are generally exceptionally troublesome.

I gotta go with Tim on this one. That's just the tip of the iceberg with people like tat.

[12345Michael54321]

Two words - Pinhole camera.

And if the technique catches on, you'll be famous as the Father of the Pinhole Camera School of Wedding Photography. You could offer high-priced seminars, write a column for Pinhole Wedding Photography Magazine, etc.

Oh, so it sounds silly? Well I'll have you know that there have been books and shows dedicated to Holga photography, and this isn't much more ridiculous than that.

[mizuno]

Oh, so it sounds silly? Well I'll have you know that there have been books and shows dedicated to Holga photography, and this isn't much more ridiculous than that.

I wouldn't call Holga photography ridiculous at all.

[12345Michael54321]

Okay. I fully respect your right to not regard Holga photography as ridiculous.

[hef]

I still see this as a challenge.. However, the client needs to KNOW the limitations..............

[cdifoto]

You should tell them you would oblige, but you'd have to clean your sensor and really don't feel like it.

[DCM Canon]

I would just set up two or three strobes inside and pump some serious light into the room. I am sure the wedding attendants might get sick on all that light filling the room over and over, but hey.. if the couple wants it.. let em have it!

[flipteg]

why not just use a G7, put a 580EX on it and be done with it...? they'll get their depth of field request and you will get your low light performance...

[howzitboy]

if I got that request, i'd decline cuz when you've been shooting a certain way for so long, u gonna forget and hit your regular exposures and then realize, oopie. haha
i dont think you'd have to hit the f11 to f16, probably get away with an f8 (if using wide angle). But, your flash (on camera) wouldnt be able to fill a whole church with f11 or f16 worth of light. I forgot name of the flash, but i knew someone using a 400 w/s flash. that thing could pump out the light!
I could picture you trying to use like studio lighting and have that thing fire off 200+ times during a ceremony! I bet the minister, singer and oganist all walk over and punch you hehe.
I think you could also shoot the shots 2x, one focused on background, other on the couple and combine them in PS, but thats double or triple the work! not worth the money.