Need your valuble suggestions

[arul_nandha]

Hello all, :D

I am an amature in photography.. slowly learning and now i am planing to buy a camera.

I don't want to use any film rolls and i would like to use some manual settings too.

Please tell me which would be good and suitable for me.

should i go for G series, or EOS or compact digital camera???



thanks in advance

regards
Arul :)

[shniks]

Well, I was much like you a few months ago, and opted for a G series camera. Its a great learning tool, as it has manual, Av and Tv modes, and lets you shoot raw.
However, you need to ask yourself if you think your interest will be long term, because if it is I would suggest you go for an EOS model. You would end up wanting one in a few months anyway, so save your money and go straight for it. The learning curve will be greater, but it will be worth it.
If money is an issue, or you don't know how long your interest will last, then go for a G series, or even a compact camera (many of these have full manual control as well).

[Andy_T]

Arul,

spend some time on this forum and read through the older posts ... that'S a great way to learn about the different cameras and make up your mind what you would really want.

Of course, we could tell you (actually, we really couldn't :lol:) 'Get this camera if you don't want to spend a lot of money, or that one if you really mean it serious...'

But then, we don't really know your preferences!

There are some basic guidelines to give you ... but you'd better try to take some time to get to know the different alternatives a little bit, then come back with more targeted questions and then make your decision based on what you think is best.

So the basics...

There are three 'categories' of cameras:

1) 'small point&shoot cameras' in the 200-500 US$ price range. They make decent photos out of the box and are usually compact enough to carry with you at all times. Read all about these in the 'Small compact digital... forum'

2) 'Prosumer cameras' ... or 'G-series and what comes after' in the 500-1000$ range. These also make decent photographs and offer you a lot of manual options (e.g. adding filters and conversion lenses, external flash units) and so on. If you are familiar with photography, you can use 'Automatic' and 'Manual' modes that help you to achieve exactly the effect you want. (some of the 'better' cameras from the other forum also allow this). This forum here is about these cameras.

3) DSLR's ... short for digital SLR cameras. These cameras do not have fixed lenses, but you can use interchangeable lenses that give you greater flexibility. You can compose the picture in the optical viewfinder through the lens and control depth-of-field to create creative effects. Downside is that these cameras are larger and heavier, especially if you fit good (and expensive) lenses. These cameras start at $1000, and if you really get into the hobby, you'll spend a lot more on lenses. You don't have to, but most do :lol:
Read all about these in the 'DSLR' forum, look out for the 'Digital Rebel' camera.


The cameras in Group 2) normally are a good starting point, but if you want a lot of creative control and 'room for improvement', the group 3) might be interesting for you. If you value ease of weight and easy handling above all other, look at the cameras in group 1). Canon (at least to us :lol:) is a clear leader in digital cameras, so you can'T do much wrong.

Hope that helps a bit....

Best regards,
Andy

[CoolToolGuy]

Geez, can we save Andy's response and make it required reading for all newbies that don't know what camera to buy?

Very well said, Andy.

[vvizard]

If this can help some newbies to, I add inn my experience. Autumn 2002 I bought my first camera ever. I didn't wan't to learn on film either, so I was in your situation. I opted for a 5 Megapixel Prosumer-camera from Minolta with a 28-200mm f2.8-3.5 zoom, and full manual controls (actually more controls on that one than my current 10D). So it was a great learning-camera. Although, image-quality was not as good as I had expected, and high ISO-shots sucked bigtime (as they usually do on anything but DSLRS). I had it for a year, and then sold it off for less than half price to buy a 10D.Do I regret it? Nope, not much at least. I couldn't have afforded a DSLR with equipment at that time anyway, so I think it was well spent money to learn photograhing. But now, after I picked up a 10D, I understand how much more there is to learn! I've learned so much more from my 6 months with 10D than I learned from my one year with the prosumer. Best reason for that I guess, is that photography now is my main hobby. It really wasn't while the images sucked :-P But of course, had I had the Minolta now, I guess I could've tweaked out far better pics from it, cause back then I was a the "prosumer measurebator", and common for those is that "Megapixels equals quality" ;) and things as "stopping down lenses" and such, really isn't something we knew much about =) So I usually shot at f/2.8 to get as fast shutters as possible.. That might explain a lot of my frustration with quality. Anyway, I felt I've outgrown my camera, as I knew how to control shutters and aperture (no idea about lens-quality usually following aperture though), and when I saw an add for the 300D (Drebel) I googled up info for it. After seeing reviews and peeking at shots from it, I _KNEW_ this is what I need! So I sold my old cam, and ordered a Drebel. Trying to learn something while waiting for the Drebel to ship, I searched for photography forums and found this. The rest is pretty much history, and the saga can be continued here:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=17109&highlight=
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16982&highlight=

As it turned out, I canceled the order for the 300D, and put one for the 10D instead, and then the story can be re-continued here:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=19544&highlight='

Man I'm glad I took the step into this world, and especially into this forum. Have to thank everybody in here, mostly the guys in the EOS-part, as that's where I usually "hang around", and a special thanks to RFMSport (for talking me into 10D over 300D), and Belmondo, Tom W, CyberDyneSystems, robertwgross, Canuck, Iwatkins and all other names (probably many I forgot) stuck in my memory as "nice helping hands" from the first day I turned up here.

[arul_nandha]

First of all thanks to each and everyone of you.

Honestly speaking i thought of going for Prosumer camera. But i am sure i would find myself looking for DSLR after 3 - 4 months period. Let me have some time to decide whether it is DSLR or prosumer type. I have got some materials to read about photography... it is really interesting. Once i get a clear picture of what is aperture, shutter speed and how it gives effectiveness using these different combo, i would be in a position to visualize what functionalities i exactly need.

I will again come back soon to you with more questions and ideas. Thanks for helping me out.

well... let me add few more to explain why am here.

I have chosen it as my hobby which i got interest very recently. Reason being, photography brings me close to nature and i love being with it.
Somehow i had a feeling that i should go for canon. And now i feel bit comfortable that i found good place to meet canon resourcefull Photographers.

i see some snaps posted in this forum which encourages me more...... hope i would also post my best snaps over here ....

Thanks to everybody..

Regards
Arul :)

[robertwgross]

Arul, nature photography can be kind of a broad topic. If you can be more specific, then the advice you read here may be more specific. For example, there are some things that a digital camera is better for. There are a few things that a film camera is better for. If you are a bird watcher, then you will need to get a very long telephoto lens. But if you are more interested in trees and scenery, you may need a wider lens instead. If you like shooting tiny insects, then a macro lens may be required.

So, tell us what you really want to do, and then see what advice you get.

---Bob Gross---

[Andy_T]

Hi Arul,

glad we could help you out a bit!

Bob Gross is absolutely right ... for some kinds of photography, digital is better, for some types, film might be better.

However: There's on immensely important (at least to me) advantage of digital ... once you have the gear, it costs you next to nothing. You can take thousands of pictures at just the cost of the energy you need to recharge your battery. Of course, you need some kind of computer to display the photos (but I assume you have that, using the internet and all :lol:)

Another important part is ... your approach (get a simple camera to start, upgrade later) makes a lot of sense, and there are many people who take it. This means, that there should be a lot of good digital cameras available in the second-hand-market at reasonable prices ... something for you to ponder.

I think that the 'bottom line' for you would be something like the Canon A70 or Kodak DX6340. Those cameras have 3 Megapixels which is supposed to be ok for printing up to A4 (letter) size. But more important, they offer you the possibility to use both 'automatic' and 'creative' modes.

The first means that you can select something like 'auto', 'sports', 'landscape' or 'portrait' modes and let the camera do the thinking which aperture, shutter speed etc. to select. This is what every digicam on the market offers. Using only those modes, you can take decent photos ... but you will not learn much about photography, however.

The thing that drove me to Canon was that all Canon 'prosumer' cameras also offer the possibility to use the so-called 'creative' modes. That means, you have 3 additional modes, 'A' (for aperture), 'T' (for shutter speed) and 'M' (for full manual) and 'Program' (similar to 'Auto', but with more options to select from).

So you have to decide that you would like to freeze the fast movement of a racing car by selecting 1/500 second shutter speed and let the camera select the appropriate aperture. You could also decide to give an impression of the speed of the car in your picture by selecting 1/100 second shutter speed and 'panning' the camera along with the car. That way, you are going to learn a lot. So watch out that the camera you get supports these modes.

So my suggestion to you would be to look for a used Canon G3 camera. Yesterday's top product, it still is a very capable camera with 4 MP, a 4x optical zoom and the possibility to use conversion lenses, external flash units. You can also save your pictures in RAW mode and have the full flexibility to get the best out of your pictures in Photoshop. Get one or more large CF cards (512 MB - 1 GIG in total), an additional battery, a tripod and you're ready to go.

And then ... practise, practise, practise :lol:

Best regards,
Andy

PS: Take a look at these ressources, they show what can be done with such a camera....

http://www.kleptography.com
http://www.pbase.com/sdommin/

[PhotosGuy]

I agree with everything said above & would like to throw my 2 cents worth.
The gallery links Andy posted show that it's the photographers vision that counts, not the box used to take the pics.

As a kid, I liked photography, but I didn't really love it until I got my first SLR which was an Argus (WHAT?), followed shortly by a Nikon F. The difference was that I could see exactly what was going on film! That's a BIG thing!

For that reason alone, I'd say stay away from anything but an SLR.
I got a 300D in January & like it a lot more than I thought I would. If you can't afford it now, then wait 'till you can. The price should drop soon. And, it will make an excellent back-up camera if you decide to 'upgrade' in a few years.
Meanwhile, work on your own personal 'vision', and have fun!

[Andy_T]

So, Arul,

it looks like the only way for you to find out is to go to a photo shop and try out those cameras ... looking at the specs is one thing, but having them in your hand, looking through the viewfinder to compose a photo and using them is quite something else.

Do you have any friends who have cameras you could borrow?

Anyway, you'll have some fun trying it out. Take your time and don't hurry it.

Best regards,
Andy

[Lamplight]

I bought a "pro-sumer" camera (Olympus) last May and within a month I had easily gotten my money's worth. I had always just shot in Auto mode with it until the beginning of this year, when I began experimenting with other settings. I began reading about Digital SLRs on the web (and this forum) and I knew it was time for me to step up and buy one. In March I bought my DRebel and haven't yet regretted it. I have taken at least 700-800 shots with it so far and take many more every week. I kind of wish I had saved a little longer for the 10D, but I'd probably still be saving for it right now if I had done that. :( While I absolutely love my camera, I'd probably still suggest getting a smaller digicam for a first camera. No need to spend $1000+ and then discover a month later that you are no longer interested in photography. Just my opinion...

[vvizard]

Is it possible to loose interest in photography when you shoot with one of those fine canon "machines"? I think not :lol:

[arul_nandha]

I visited couple of places Best buy, circuit city and other places too. I inquired about DSLR and Prosumer camera, just wanted to feel it. And i also had a glance with compact Digital cameras. Now i feel that i cannot go for compact digital camera (or Point and shoot or powershot)... As you said it has a few modes which are preset already, so i don't have any control. It will not allow me to do mistake to learn about photography. I woud need automatic sometimes but not just automatic alone where we cannot put our creativeness in to the picture.

Y'all helped me in finding me what i need as of now.

1. i don't want to go for compact size digital camera.
2. I need to use (if needed) wider Lens as i would like to capture things like trees, evening sun (just to start with). So the camera which i buy should have a provision to hook or switch lens.
3. Ofcourse money matters a lot. i am very possitive i am not going to loose my hobbies that easily... but still i should not spoil the good camera.. So i would like to start with moderate one with which we could try different things ourselves.
4. I don't want to use film rolls till i am very much comfortable with what i am doing and very much sure about what ouput i would get with my settings.
4. Now the biggest question..... we have two options... Prosumer or DSLR?????

Please throw some light on the camera which would satisfy my need now to grow in the world of Photography.

Once again i thank you all for each and every information which i cannot get anywhere but from the experience of you like guys.


Regards
Arul

[John_T]

Perhaps you want to give some thought to how much you want to spend.

A prosumer plus conversion lenses is a good learning platform, probably cost less, and, primarily because of it's smaller size, something you might even keep if/when you move on to a DSLR.


An entry level DSLR plus one lens will probably cost you as much as the whole prosumer set and you will eventually need to add to that to reach a good range between wide angle and telephoto as you progress in learning.

Later you surely will want to advance to a better DSLR camera body, and if you stay with the same brand you can move all your lenses to the new body. (You will not be able to do this with a prosumer.) There is one condition to this however. That is that you buy only high quality lenses, which can be very expensive, because when you do move on to a more advanced camera body with all it's possibilities, you won't be satisfied with cheap lenses and will certainly buy the expensive ones anyway. You can ask a lot of people around here about that one! Lenses become an addiction. Watch the EOS forum for a few days and you will get the drift.

So I would take a long look at the financial considerations and how that is going to work out over the next couple of years. Take a look at your current computer and software too, because as you progress in photography you be wanting to make upgrades there too.

There are really only two important factors in your decision. What suits you and what fits in your financial picture, now and later.

[PhotosGuy]

Take a look at your current computer and software too, because as you progress in photography you be wanting to make upgrades there too.

Good point, but "want to" isn't the same as "needing to". I'm still running a 455Mh Win98SE platform on the theory that no self respecting hacker type is going to write code to screw up an 'obsolete' OS, + all my software runs very well on it.
Yes, Canon FVU runs slow, so I watch tv while waiting for it to finish calculating on it's integral abacus.

I only interject this because there's ALWAYS going to be something "newer" & "better" just around the corner, and the whole point of what we're doing here is to take better pics with what we have which is light years ahead of what they used to take great pics with in the '40s & '50s.

So, Arul, whatever you decide to buy, the fact that it will be 'obsolete' in 2 years or less shouldn't bother you a bit. Just learn it's limitations, find work arounds for them, & get everything out of it that you can. Most importantly, have fun doing it! Meanwhile, wait for the new "L-XW" lenses to be announced & you'll be able to get some great buys on the 'oboslete' "L"s that a lot of guys will be trying to dump so they can afford the new ones.
Note: L-XW = L Xtra Wonderful.
:lol:

[Andy_T]

So arul,

now it's two weeks later, how's your decision process so far?

Any interesting questions for us to answer, in the meantime?

Best regards,
Andy

[arul_nandha]

Thanks Andy...

Finally Decided to start with Powershot camera. Let me justify it, I just found me spending more money since i am interested in DSLR (If i say truth). You know what ... that is a lot of money as far as i am concerned. But i didn't loose my interest.
First of all i wanted to learn with something which gives you more manual option and with the cheaper price.
After a lot of reading from this forum... figured out A80 is an apt one and it also supports Lens as an adds-on accessories. And Full manual control to the extent.

Even though it is one year old model, but i personally felt, that is good choice for me to start with. After spending some time, i would give to my brother or friend and would go for DSLR directly instead of going to Prosumer camera.

I ordered it this morning thru net. Please feel free to coment on my decision.

Obviously, i would appreciate if you could provide me some links regarding photography or books or anything which would help me exploring ....

Thanks for you all

Thanks andy for following up after two weeks. Appreciate it !!!.


Regards
Arul

[Ross]

Arul,

I was given a prosumer type camera (Fuji 602) for Christmas, and got back into photography very quickly (I had a film SLR years ago). I have now bought the EOS 10D!

However, one book I found very useful was "Digital SLR Masterclass" by Andy Rouse. This seems to cover all the main points, and would probably save a lot of time working out the essentials.

regards,

Ross

[arul_nandha]

Is there any online resources that you found very useful?
please provide me the link.

thanks
Arul

[Andy_T]

Hi Arul,

have you already looked at that thread?

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=22081

It'S the place to post 'All the best links' ... there's an immense wealth of information there.

Other than that ... practice, practice, practice :lol:

There also has to be said something for getting a good book ... somehow a printed book with full-colour photographs is different to a website.

I got this book by John Hedgecoe and like it ... I guess he's a very popular writer on beginner's photography.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1564585085/ref=pd_sim_books_2/002-6786579-7105609?v=glance&s=books

When I looked at photography books, I deliberately decided not to get a 'Digital photography' book, as you will have half of the book filled with the information you can also read on the forum here. Granted, in a 'conventional' photo book, you'll read things about the different film cameras types that's not really useable to you, but it does not take as much space in the book as with 'digital photography books'.

The one thing that's missing then, however, is an introduction how to work with Photoshop.

But best would be to visit a well-stocked bookshop and look the books up yourself.

Best regards,
Andy