Help with Lightroom

[mdrtoys]

Ok, I'm just starting to use Lightroom and I really like the set up. But, I get a great picture (ie. brightness, color saturation and overall detail) while in light room. Then when I export it or even print it (whether from the export or directly from Lightroom) the picture comes out drab and dark.

I'm getting really frustrated with this since the picture looks incredible in Lightroom, then I get excited to print it and it comes out drab and lifeless.

What am I doing wrong


Also, I did a search and really couldn't find anything on this

Thanks in advance

[EOSAddict]

Do you have a calibrated monitor? Are the other apps you use colour managed? Are you printing using LR colour management?

Starter for 10 from me.....

[mdrtoys]

Ok, monitor is calibrated but that doesn't matter because if I print or look at the JPEG (on the same montior) the pictures look completely different. In Lightroom it looks perfect, outside of it it is dark without separation between objects (ie the shadows in a dogs mout drown out her toungue when exported. While in LR the tongue is a nice pink with great detail).

As for the rest...hung?

[Westbeachbc]

Are you printing the JPEG from LR as well, or a different application? My guess is that color correction is on in LR in the Print module, as well as in your printer settings.

[gparvan]

What color space are you shooting with Adobe or sRGB? LightRoom is ProPhoto so you have to be careful about expanding color gamuts and then contracting down to sRGB at Export. What colorspace are you exporting to?

[In2Photos]

What are your settings when you print from within Lightroom? Are you selecting the correct profile for your printer/paper/ink combination? Are you using Perceptual (black point compensation)?

There is a thread in the Lightroom sticky about printing with my step by step instructions on printing.

[mdrtoys]

OK, I'm not really worried about the printing, that will be fixed when I get this fixed.

I'm not sure what's happening in that I ake changes in Lightroom and that is the only place I see those changes. not when I export it and not when I look at it in (as a raw file) in CS2, not when I export it as a Jpeg and not when I print.

The printing is only a symptom of what's going on, I can't see my changes anywhere except when the photo is in LR.

[EOSAddict]

What ACR version are you using?

[gparvan]

We need to know the following which can be found on the Export Dialog Box:
Preset:
File Settings:
Image Settings:

Also, we need answers to the questions above.

[Glenn NK]

On the first post it seemed as though the OP was printing from LR, then the second post indicated that the images were exported from LR and printed in CS2. First post was concerned about printing, then in the second post printing wasn't the problem - the target seems to be moving.

Colour me confused. :confused:

[mdrtoys]

Ok, I don't think I'm explaining myself correctly, I didn't want to make you think I was worried about the printing in my original post, I wanted to use the printing as an example of where I loose my conversion so I'll start over.

When I make changes in lightroom, I will export it to a folder called "converted" whenever I open the picture using any program but LR the picture is much darker than what it is in LR. So, I started to experiment to see under what situations it was becoming darker after it was exported. Whenever I opened it in Photoshop, Windows picture viewer, paint or any other program I'm losing brightness.

So, I thought I would try printing directly from LR to see if the loss of brightness happened then as well. And sure enough, the picture printed was much darker than what I saw in LR.

Printing is not my issue, I was trying to use that as an example of how the pic, no matter whether I open it with another progrm or print directly from LR, is losing brightness and detail in shadowed areas.

Now, I hope I cleared that up and now I'm going to read the other questions and see if I can asnwer those.

[mdrtoys]

1) Monitor is calibrated
2) I've printed from both an exported Jpeg and LR - Same final product
3) Well, when I export I'm setting it to Prophoto, am I not supposed to do that?
4) What ACR version are you using? - I don't know - Sorry ;(
5) File Settings: JPEG - Quality 100 (I never changed quality)
Image Settings: Prophoto RGB - 240 pixels per inch


Is that everything?

[EOSAddict]

Can you do screen captures to try and illustrate? Without seeing its difficult to understand the extent of your problem.

It might be the prophotoRBG setting. Are you exporting at that or using sRGB?

[In2Photos]

If your exported images are in the ProPhoto color space then only color managed applications will display it properly, but only if you have them set up correctly. Photoshop should be the only application other than Lightroom that you mentioned that should show th eimage correctly. But you might not have your settings correct in PS. Check out the Color Problems Sticky for your settings.

[mdrtoys]

Here is the pciture I'm talking about

In Lightroom, I can see the texture on her tongue, anywhere else it's darkened to the point that the inside of her mouth is lost in shadow. Nt only that, the pink of the tongue is lost and the green in the leaves are diffused.

It's like looking through some kind of filter. I can't seem to figure out what's going on.

[SilverOnemi]

try posting a screenshot of it being edited on LR, and then the exported pic.

[greygoose]

i am sorry if this suggestion was already covered.
but....

while in lightroom select the image you want.
right click the image and select EDIT IN ADOBE PHOTOSHOP
then check the box that says EDIT a Copy With Lightroom Adjustments. and also check the box that says STACK WITH ORIGINAL.

im only saying this because i dont think that the external editors are getting the lightroom adjustments.

sorry dude if you tried all that already. but its all i can think of...

are the images darker than the raw file or the same as the raw file?
when you are in lightroom what are the exact steps you take to send the file to an external editor?

[greygoose]

the color profiles are probably being discarded.
i tried to open up that file. i put the file in lightroom then exported to photoshop. there was a pop up dialog box that said something about color profile. the only time the image was darker than lightroom was when i discarded the color profile that was embedded in the image.

which takes me back to my original post but sorry if that's something you went over already in your trying to fix that issue. keep us posted

[boxerjess]

Sorry to dig a topic up from the grave - I will be quick though.

I am having almost the exact same problem this user had - my photo's look awesome in LR but are completely washed out when exported? I have tried to export them backward and forward, and have tried to research for a solution the last three nights - It is driving me nuts because aside from this huge problem I love LR - can anyone help me with this problem.
Thanks so much,
Jesse

[JustinSegura]

Same problem here. Looks great in LR but once exported i lose some color and detail. usually darker than in LR. Pics still look better than the original, so i cant complain that much.

[boxerjess]

Well, mine don't look better at all. I really want to be able to use LR but if I can't save the file even remotely close to what it looks like in LR than it is pointless.

[Victoria Bampton]

Everybody, and I do mean EVERYBODY, should be able to at least EXPORT a file that looks the same outside of LR as it does inside. Printing is another ballgame, but let's try one thing at a time....

Everybody who's having problems, work along with me here....

1. Find a file a like. You're going to be looking at it for a while! We're going to call it 'Original' here for identification purposes.

2. Export 'Original', set to ProPhotoRGB 16bit. We'll call that 'ProPhoto16'.
3. Import that file (ProPhoto16) into Lightroom. Does it look identical to the original?

4. Export 'Original', set to sRGB 8bit. We'll call that 'sRGB8'.
5. Import that file (sRGB8 ) into Lightroom. Does it look identical to the original? There may be slight differences due to the fact you're working with a much smaller colour space.

6. If they don't match, report back....




7. Now let's pick another program to view the file...

8. Open the files (ProPhoto16 & sRGB8 ) into Photoshop, if you own it. Depending on your colour settings, one may look odd.

I would suggest switching your Photoshop Colour Settings to 'Preserve Embedded Profile' to minimize mismatching problems. This is marked in Blue (ignore the red section, this screenshot was originally for another forum) http://img.skitch.com/20080220-cf8amigpkfkcssesk718gycq7a.jpg

9. If it still doesn't match, report back with your Photoshop colour settings.



So far so good?

10. Now open your 2 files (ProPhoto16 & sRGB8 ) into Windows Picture Viewer or another non-colour-managed application (web browser etc). The ProPhoto16 one looks grotty, right? That's because it's not colour managed. The sRGB8 one is as close as you'll get to a match in a non colour managed program.



If you're still having trouble after all this, next port of call is corrupted monitor profiles (LR uses the monitor profile differently to most other programs), or dodgy graphics card drivers. But one step at a time......

[rnourse]

I guess the OP got it resolved... would be nice to know what the problem turned out to be...

[Night Hawk]

I would too because I am having the same problem and can't find out whats wrong... :mad:

[René Damkot]

Did you follow the steps Victoria gave?

[Night Hawk]

Ok so I tried however this is the result I am getting, the same... First picture is the picture I am wanting... (Sorry for the huge pics)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2543/3897913209_9de17d758c_o.jpg




Secondly... this is the image that I am getting.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2580/3898693564_a6a5f5f567_o.jpg


I am trying everything possible but still cannot find a clue as to what is going on. I am using a 30 Day trial version of lightroom but the previous trial version never did this and I am using the same computer so I am lost. I am getting the full version of lightroom at the end of the month and if my trial version is acting like this, then I am surely not going to buy it. I used to be able to edit my raw photos in CS2 but it seems as if my CR2 Raw images does not work any more with CS2 and gives me a message that says it is an invalid file. I tried to update CS2 but it says that there are no current updates. I tried to force an update by downloading the camera raw update but it failed. I am totally clueless and now have no working programs to edit images... can someone please help!

[René Damkot]

Internet explorer is not color managed, so it will display wrong.

Not sure what the "ProPhotoRGB" text means, since you are showing the same image twice?

ACR 3.7 will not open CR2 files from your 50D unless you convert them to DNG first. I see hardly any point in doing that, since LR2 is a way better raw converter then ACR prior to 4.6

ACR FAQ (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=244018)

Have a read in the link from my sig, or here (http://www.getcolormanaged.com/color-management/cmintro/), here (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=707058), here (http://www.getcolormanaged.com/color-management/saveforweb/) or here (http://www.getcolormanaged.com/color-management/clipwarninglr/).

[Night Hawk]

Internet explorer is not color managed, so it will display wrong.

Not sure what the "ProPhotoRGB" text means, since you are showing the same image twice?

ACR 3.7 will not open CR2 files from your 50D unless you convert them to DNG first. I see hardly any point in doing that, since LR2 is a way better raw converter then ACR prior to 4.6

ACR FAQ (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=244018)

Have a read in the link from my sig, or here (http://www.getcolormanaged.com/color-management/cmintro/), here (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=707058), here (http://www.getcolormanaged.com/color-management/saveforweb/) or here (http://www.getcolormanaged.com/color-management/clipwarninglr/).It doesnt matter if I am displaying it in internet explorer, it shows the same in whatever I view it in other than LR2. The ProPhoto RGB and sRGB is the two images I showed them in comparing the two as Victoria explained. I am still lost but will give what you mentioned a look at and try some other things if it tells me to.

[René Damkot]

It doesnt matter if I am displaying it in internet explorer, it shows the same in whatever I view it in other than LR2. The ProPhoto RGB and sRGB is the two images I showed them in comparing the two as Victoria explained. I am still lost but will give what you mentioned a look at and try some other things if it tells me to.
Okay. Step by step.

What other software doe you have?
In non color managed software, a ProPhotoRGB image will look awfully desaturated. I don't think the first image is ProPhotoRGB.

I'm sure it's not ProPhotoRGB / 16bpc as Victoria suggested, since it's a jpg ;)

Try steps 1 through 5 first. Then 7 and 8. You started off with step #10, and I don't think you did that step right either...


1. Find a file a like. You're going to be looking at it for a while! We're going to call it 'Original' here for identification purposes.

2. Export 'Original', set to ProPhotoRGB 16bit. We'll call that 'ProPhoto16'.
3. Import that file (ProPhoto16) into Lightroom. Does it look identical to the original?

4. Export 'Original', set to sRGB 8bit. We'll call that 'sRGB8'.
5. Import that file (sRGB8 ) into Lightroom. Does it look identical to the original? There may be slight differences due to the fact you're working with a much smaller colour space.

6. If they don't match, report back....




7. Now let's pick another program to view the file...

8. Open the files (ProPhoto16 & sRGB8 ) into Photoshop, if you own it. Depending on your colour settings, one may look odd.

I would suggest switching your Photoshop Colour Settings to 'Preserve Embedded Profile' to minimize mismatching problems. This is marked in Blue (ignore the red section, this screenshot was originally for another forum) http://img.skitch.com/20080220-cf8amigpkfkcssesk718gycq7a.jpg

9. If it still doesn't match, report back with your Photoshop colour settings.



So far so good?

10. Now open your 2 files (ProPhoto16 & sRGB8 ) into Windows Picture Viewer or another non-colour-managed application (web browser etc). The ProPhoto16 one looks grotty, right? That's because it's not colour managed. The sRGB8 one is as close as you'll get to a match in a non colour managed program.



If you're still having trouble after all this, next port of call is corrupted monitor profiles (LR uses the monitor profile differently to most other programs), or dodgy graphics card drivers. But one step at a time......

[Night Hawk]

Okay. Step by step.

What other software doe you have?
In non color managed software, a ProPhotoRGB image will look awfully desaturated. I don't think the first image is ProPhotoRGB.

I'm sure it's not ProPhotoRGB / 16bpc as Victoria suggested, since it's a jpg ;)

Try steps 1 through 5 first. Then 7 and 8. You started off with step #10, and I don't think you did that step right either...
Only Software that I have is Canon Utilities which is garbage compared to what I have done in LR2 and PS2. I also have PS2 and LR2 however both of them aren't working properly.

As for the steps in LR2, I have done all of the steps unless my LR2 trial version is jacked somehow and its not applying the edits to the image.

Step 1: I got the file as it is the only .CR2 file that I have of it
Step 2 & 3: I imported that file and applied the edited settings as desired then exported it as ProPhoto RGB (it didnt say 16 bit as I am assuming thats what ProPhoto RGB is) then clicked save.
Step 4 & 5: Did the same as step 2 & 3 but only saving it as sRGB (again, it didn't say 8bit as I'm assuming thats what sRGB is)
Step 6: Reported back after all steps were complied with
Step 7: I used every last program that I had that could view the file only to find out that every last single one of them looked the same other than in LR2. (PS2, IE, Windows Picture Viewer, etc...)
Step 8: Again as stated in step 7, I opened it up in PS2 and same result. Checked my color settings and they were the correct settings as shown by Victoria.
Step 9: See step 8
Step 10: Once again, same result. See step 7, 8 and 10

[Night Hawk]

Ok I think I know what may be going on... I just edited the same image atleast 50 times and done a number of things to it while saving it. My last attempt, I saved it as a .dng file and opened it up in CS2. I then proceeded to save it as a .jpg. I then went back into my folder and tried to open it back up in CS2 only to throw up a dialog box that said my color profile on the image didn't match and was showing it to be in Adobe RGB 1998 and gave me three options. I chose to override it and converted it to sRBG IEC61966-2.1. Now it shows up prefectly as I have edited it to. Question is, Do I have to do this for every image or is there a way to adjust the settings so it applies to all in LR2 so I don't have to keep going back and forth with LR2 and CS2? However, when I open it up into another viewing program, it still shows it to be the degraded image. What gives? :confused:

[René Damkot]

Don't know "Canon Utilities", but I do know that most Canon software on the Mac needs to be set to color manage (either set the correct display profile (DPP) or tell it to use color management).

Step 2 &3: You need to set either psd or tif. jpg only supports 8bpc:

http://img.skitch.com/20090908-8p6i1wdbcgjn5jbkmdfu7r8m48.jpg

Step 6: Must have missed that... Did the jpg images look the same in LR after importing? They should.

Step7: If the image looks different in PSCS2 (assuming that's what you mean with PS2) then in LR, then something is wrong. Never mind what it looks like in IE or Windows Picture and Fax viewer (XP). They are not color managed. They should look (very) different from PSCS2 and LR2 for the ProPhotoRGB image by the way. And slightly different (depending on monitor (profile) used) for the sRGB image.

What color settings in PSCS2? They should be identical to what Victoria posted.
Any warning dialogs pop up when opening the images (hint: There should be one) What did you do?

I have a hard time believing that in the screenshot you posted (with both jpg images opened in IE) one of the jpgs is in ProPhotoRGB.
It would look very different from the sRGB jpg then in IE.

You didn't convert them to sRGB (by default in PS for instance, by having the "policies" in the color settings set to "convert to working RGB"? Don't set that. Ever. Unless you have a very good reason.)

Your screenshots are also in sRGB by the way, which is not correct (unless you converted them). They should have your monitor profile embedded.

Both LR2 and PSCS2 "not working properly" sounds like user error to me.


Edit: Waitaminute. You are exporting from LR as a jpg, then opening in PSCS2, right? Now you make it sound as if you open the DNG through ACR....
Please be a bit less ambiguous.

[Night Hawk]

Don't know "Canon Utilities", but I do know that most Canon software on the Mac needs to be set to color manage (either set the correct display profile (DPP) or tell it to use color management).

Step 2 &3: You need to set either psd or tif. jpg only supports 8bpc:

http://img.skitch.com/20090908-8p6i1wdbcgjn5jbkmdfu7r8m48.jpg

Step 6: Must have missed that... Did the jpg images look the same in LR after importing? They should.

Step7: If the image looks different in PSCS2 (assuming that's what you mean with PS2) then in LR, then something is wrong. Never mind what it looks like in IE or Windows Picture and Fax viewer (XP). They are not color managed. They should look (very) different from PSCS2 and LR2 for the ProPhotoRGB image by the way. And slightly different (depending on monitor (profile) used) for the sRGB image.

What color settings in PSCS2? They should be identical to what Victoria posted.
Any warning dialogs pop up when opening the images (hint: There should be one) What did you do?

I have a hard time believing that in the screenshot you posted (with both jpg images opened in IE) one of the jpgs is in ProPhotoRGB.
It would look very different from the sRGB jpg then in IE.

You didn't convert them to sRGB (by default in PS for instance, by having the "policies" in the color settings set to "convert to working RGB"? Don't set that. Ever. Unless you have a very good reason.)

Your screenshots are also in sRGB by the way, which is not correct (unless you converted them). They should have your monitor profile embedded.

Both LR2 and PSCS2 "not working properly" sounds like user error to me.


Edit: Waitaminute. You are exporting from LR as a jpg, then opening in PSCS2, right? Now you make it sound as if you open the DNG through ACR....
Please be a bit less ambiguous.I am trying to do a number of things to see where the problem lies whether it's with me saving the file like I am or if it's a color management issue... sorry, but yes, I tried to save it from LR2 exporting it as a .jpg like I have done in the past with no problems. However, I did try to save it as a .dng file and open it in CS2. I opened it in CS2 and it threw up a dialog box that said my color profile on the image didn't match and was showing it to be in Adobe RGB 1998 and gave me three options. I chose to override it and converted it to sRBG IEC61966-2.1. Now it shows up prefectly as I have edited it to. Question is, Do I have to do this for every image or is there a way to adjust the settings so it applies to all in LR2 so I don't have to keep going back and forth with LR2 and CS2? However, when I open it up into another viewing program, it still shows it to be the degraded image.

[René Damkot]

I am trying to do a number of things to see where the problem lies whether it's with me saving the file like I am or if it's a color management issue... sorry, but yes, I tried to save it from LR2 exporting it as a .jpg like I have done in the past with no problems. However, I did try to save it as a .dng file and open it in CS2. I opened it in CS2 and it threw up a dialog box that said my color profile on the image didn't match and was showing it to be in Adobe RGB 1998 and gave me three options. I chose to override it and converted it to sRBG IEC61966-2.1. Now it shows up prefectly as I have edited it to. Question is, Do I have to do this for every image or is there a way to adjust the settings so it applies to all in LR2 so I don't have to keep going back and forth with LR2 and CS2? However, when I open it up into another viewing program, it still shows it to be the degraded image.

Well, if you didn't get that warning dialog with the jpg that was supposed to be ProPhotoRGB, then that jpg wasn't ProPhotoRGB, but sRGB (which appears to be your default working space in PS)

The other (exported) jpgs should also look the same in PSCS2 as in LR2, but I'm not sure how you exported them (since apparently you thought you'd set ProPhotoRGB)

Silly question maybe, but are you sure you are opening an exported jpg, and not for instance a jpg that's straight out of the camera? (If you shot Raw + jpg for instance)


You can set the output color space in ACR 3.7 in the bottom (Tick "Show workflow options"): (nevermind the arrow, it's an old screenshot)

http://img.skitch.com/20090908-7y12psxi231a9njydkbge89ke.jpg

[Night Hawk]

Well, if you didn't get that warning dialog with the jpg that was supposed to be ProPhotoRGB, then that jpg wasn't ProPhotoRGB, but sRGB (which appears to be your default working space in PS)

The other (exported) jpgs should also look the same in PSCS2 as in LR2, but I'm not sure how you exported them (since apparently you thought you'd set ProPhotoRGB)

Silly question maybe, but are you sure you are opening an exported jpg, and not for instance a jpg that's straight out of the camera? (If you shot Raw + jpg for instance)


You can set the output color space in ACR 3.7 in the bottom (Tick "Show workflow options"): (nevermind the arrow, it's an old screenshot)

http://img.skitch.com/20090908-7y12psxi231a9njydkbge89ke.jpg
I am 100% positive that I am not loading a .jpg as I only shoot in raw format. This is starting to be confusing and i'm starting to get a headache. Do you think it could be software related cause it is showing up fine in all of my viewing programs except for windows picture viewer. What is the most prefered viewer to view post edited images?

[René Damkot]

I am 100% positive that I am not loading a .jpg as I only shoot in raw format. This is starting to be confusing and i'm starting to get a headache.
Take a deep breath.
Relax.
We'll get it sorted ;)
Work methodical... Go through all the steps Victoria mentioned again.

Do you think it could be software related cause it is showing up fine in all of my viewing programs except for windows picture viewer. What is the most preferred viewer to view post edited images?

Now you have me confused... Last time you said:

It doesnt matter if I am displaying it in internet explorer, it shows the same in whatever I view it in other than LR2.

So, which is it???

However, I don't think it's software related. I think that somehow the one jpg isn't Prophoto RGB. Otherwise you would have gotten the "Profile Mismatch" dialog box in PSCS2 when opening it (unless you altered the PSCS2 color settings somewhere in between):
(This one, with ProPhotoRGB for "Embedded" and probably "sRGB" for "Working")

http://img.skitch.com/20090908-t2qwqy29tj35ewaccrdt11ee2y.jpg

Post the original ProPhotoRGB and sRGB jpgs here if you want.
(Yeah, I know ProPhotoRGB should never be used in 8bpc an all that, but this is for testing purposes ;))

[Cassie]

However, when I open it up into another viewing program, it still shows it to be the degraded image.

I think I know what the probblem is, there is a setting somewhere in LR where you have to check the box that says "show LR edits in other programs" or something like that.

Sorry but I'm drawing a blank on where it is:confused:

[René Damkot]

I think I know what the probblem is, there is a setting somewhere in LR where you have to check the box that says "show LR edits in other programs" or something like that.

Sorry but I'm drawing a blank on where it is:confused:

Nope. That only means that LR will save settings to an XMP sidecar file, so that Bridge and ACR can see settings changed in LR.
Nothing whatsoever to do with the problem at hand.