A very sad tale to tell

[tibbs]

After I retired 4 years ago I bought my first little digital camera a Fujifilm A303, as photography in the past had never entered my head; about 18 months ago I decided I needed more zoom to get closer to the birds and wildlife in my garden, so I purchased the Panasonic TZ1 with 10x zoom and image stabilisation built in because I have extremely shaky hands, and was overwhelmed because I was able to get much closer to my subjects, and have been extremely happy with it ever since.

Over the last couple of months I have been visiting wildlife and bird forums and became quite addicted because of the sheer quality of the photographs posted, so I then became more aware of the photographic equipment being used and noticed that the majority of the photographers used Canon, so, a number of weeks ago I was on your Canon forum as a guest, hoping to learn as much as possible before I decided which Canon camera to buy, I finally decided on the new 400D which I bought body only, and very recently I became a member of your forum and thought that I will live like the fairy tale “happily ever after”

12 days ago I purchased my first lens to use on the camera, a Canon EFS 17-85 with image stabiliser from my local store Jessops, and when I was there I also ordered the Canon 70-300 with image stabiliser because they are totally out of stock including there main warehouse because they are waiting for a delivery off Canon.

Not only do I find this camera totally overwhelming even after reading the book, I also find it grossly over weight and that’s without the 70-300 IS lens that I have on order.
So, give me my little point and shoot that fits into my pocket and can go anywhere with me without packing a rucksack.

To make matters worse, my best friend has just presented me with a new Kenko Teleplus Pro 300 DG 1.4 conversion lens that I have been reading about on the forum, for helping him out the last few weeks to re- decorate his home.

The only consolation is, I have not had the chance to buy a camera bag so as to be able to take the camera out, and the Monopod/walking stick that I bought for my wife is still usable as my little Tizzy “Panasonic TZ1” fits onto there.

I hope that some of you folks out there have at least a little sympathy for me even though I know I am a silly old fool that should have had more sense, even though I read on one forum where a gentleman said that his hobby has been photography for over 20 years and he still has a lot to learn, unfortunately I haven’t that much time to learn. :lol: :lol: and the inclination.:oops: :oops:

With me being a new member, is it possible for me to put these items in the for sale forum.

Regards.

Tibbs. (John)

[KenTT]

Welcome to the forum John

Are you sure that you have not given your self enough time to get used to your new camera, its a very good camera.

regards Ken

[ebann]

Believe it or not, the 400D (and also the 350D and 300D) is the lightest dSLR body around. It's unbelievably light compared to the xxD and xD bodies. Even my grandfather's Leica M6 body is heavier than the 400D.

[thekid24]

I honestly think you just need a little time to get used to it, kind of like a child.HAHA but seriously there is always a learning curve with and DSLR. They can be overwhelming but believe me and all of us when we say you will get the hang of it, look back and chuckle at this moment.

Do you plan on buying anymore lenses? If you plan to keep this setup you have for a while Ill make you an offer. I dont want to see someone give up on DSLR's so easily so...

...since you dont have a camera bag I will give you one. Free of charge, Ill pay for s&h and all. Its not big but I think it will hold your camera well enough were it wont feel like a bag of bananas on your shoulder. If you are interested send me a pm w/ your address and Ill ship it out. This bag held my XT w/ battery grip + 85 1.8.

Ill post a photo of it as soon as I get off of work (@11pm)

[segasaturn]

Don't give up! To make matters worse, I'm going to suggest yet another lens -- a nifty fifty 50mm 1.8 lens, since it's very light and manageable. It won't fit in your shirt pocket, but it's very light and takes pretty good shots. Hang in there. If you really do need to sell your equipment, scroll down to the classifieds section.

[frank t]

I can feel your pain....But...@ 6 months ago, I acquired my 1st DSLR, after @ 6 P&S digitals, the last being a Panasonic FZ-5. When I first got my 350-D outfit I was appalled at how HEAVY it was!!! However after shooting for @ a month with it, it seemed quite natural in weight....In fact, after a month or so, I picked up a 20D body, and now the 350 feels overly light and flimsy, to the point that I almost never even bother to put it in my bag any longer...In fact, I'm seriously considering selling BOTH the 350, and the 20D to fund a new 30D!!!...
BTW...I had occasion to pick up my FZ-5 yesterday, and it felt so light, I couldn't even remember shooting with it!!;););)

[Adcuz]

Props to thekid24!

I would like to back up the points previously stated. Give it a chance. It will take some getting used to but it will be well worth it. When you see the images you can capture with the 70-300mm you will be amazed.

No point and shoot camera can compare to the 400d with a nice lens.

[EORI]

I agree with the others. Don't give up just yet. While a pocket camera has its uses (I carry a G7 every day everywhere), as you begin to learn more about the advantages of a digital SLR, you'll regret having given up too soon. The weight of the DSLR and lens is something all of us get used to after a while. Give yourself a chance to explore what the DSLR is capable of before you decide to sell the equipment. :)

[Jon, The Elder]

Tibbs....Something isn't right here. You must be in very bad health or only 3 feet tall. I'm your age or about (69), and not overly robust.

I pack a 20/30D with grip and a big ol' 70-200 f2.8 with IS. We work all day shooting events.

Your load can't weigh much more than 4 lbs. With a neck strap or better yet an Optec body harness, you can trek all day without fatigue.

By this Fall you should have the basics well fixed in your mind. Something isn't right here !

[Bill Roberts]

Hi John,
I see two main problems. First is the overwhelming complexity of the thing and second the overall sheer weight and size compared to your previous cameras.

The first is easy to solve, at least in the short term. Just put it on fully automatic mode (I don't have a 400D but it's probably a green square on the dial). This will give you useable photographs for most situations. Maybe not the best, but it will take the pressure off trying to figure out all the variables that you could set. You can try the other modes out once you've built some confidence up. It's not a contest and it doesn't matter how long it takes to get used to using it.

The second problem, the weight and size issue, will almost certainly just fade away the more you use the camera. Just try and hang in there for about a month or so, make a point of using it every day, even if it's just taking shots around the house... the cat, the dog, flowers, anything at all. After a month of using it every day you won't even notice the size and weight. In fact if you pick up your old camera after doing this I'll virtually guarantee it will seem like a toy in comparison.

If, after this you're still not happy then by all means put it up for sale, but I doubt that you'll lose any more by keeping and using it for a month. And you may find that actually you quite like it after all.


cheers
Bill

[Specs]

Don't give up on this great camera! As previously posted, it's one of the smallest and lightest DSLRs currently on the market.
When I got mine I was a bit taken back by the complexity over a 35mm film camera, so allow me to offer a bit of advice. First learn the basic photographic controls - shutter speed, aperture, ISO settings, move on to more advanced things like white balance and exposure compensation, and in no time you'll have a good understanding of the camera's functions.
Good luck, and practice lots!

[menehune]

If you would like to give the Canon a second chance, see if your local community college or recreation center (or UK equivilant) have digital photography workshops. It would be a small investment that will allow you to learn about your camera and explore the many facets of photography that can can only be unlocked with a SLR.

[Glenn NK]

Tibbs....Something isn't right here. You must be in very bad health or only 3 feet tall. I'm your age or about (69), and not overly robust.

I pack a 20/30D with grip and a big ol' 70-200 f2.8 with IS. We work all day shooting events.

Your load can't weigh much more than 4 lbs. With a neck strap or better yet an Optec body harness, you can trek all day without fatigue.

By this Fall you should have the basics well fixed in your mind. Something isn't right here !


Darn, you got me by two years and a bit, but in mid-February I was stricken with a bad case of vertigo. Although it's improved somewhat, at times, I wonder if I'll dive headfirst down some stairs with the 24/105 + 30D leading and me following right behind.

Yes, the 30D felt really heavy compared to my Canon A-1, but after a week I had adapted to the weight. I really think the OP needs some time to adjust from the smaller camera.

[ScottE]

John, if you want to get sharp pictures of birds with a longer lens, the step that will give you the most improvement will be to get a good tripod with a ball head. This is capable of much sharper pictures than any other kind of image stabilization, especially if you have shakey hands. You can further reduce hand induced vibration by using a cable release so the camera does not move when you press the shutter.

Shooting in your garden gives you the chance to determine where the birds land and set up your camera, tripod, remote release and wait for the birds to come. If you want to get more technical you can even construct a hide that will shelter you and your equipment from the birds' view. You will find the eventually your neighbourhood birds will get used to you and land quite close.

Don't be intimidated by the complexity of your camera. You can set it so that you can use it like a P&S. You simply have to set the dial on P and learn enough about the other controls to set the ISO to 400 or 800. After you get comfortable with that you can start to learn about how to use the other controls a little bit of a time. It can't be very difficult because even I can get good pictures some of the time.

Scott

[rogernoel]

John, I am sorry to hear of your problem. I just bought a 30 D to replace my 300D. I handled the 400 D in the camera store and thought it was a bit light weight. I also am coping with the new 30 D as it seems much more complex than my 300D. Let me tell you what is heavy to me. The 30 D with my new 17-55mm 2.8 lens and the 430X flash on the camera. Geez, almost toppled me over.

I second the recommendations made by the other posters here. Give it a chance. Hopefully you can attend a class or two in digital single lens reflex photography. I live in the middle of the desert here in Arizona, and if you really want some good shots, you have to do a bit of hiking with the gear etc. Pack it in to a Lowepro and off I go. Hang in there. I was born in 1928.

[thekid24]

Here is the bag Im offering, it may not be a Crumpler but its a starter:D
Lemme know:D

[MagentaJoe]

Here is the bag Im offering, it may not be a Crumpler but its a starter:D
Lemme know:D

Very nice. Again, very nice. :D

[Innocence]

Here is the bag Im offering, it may not be a Crumpler but its a starter:D
Lemme know:D
you're awesome. i love you. :oops:

[number six]

Not only do I find this camera totally overwhelming even after reading the book, I also find it grossly over weight and that’s without the 70-300 IS lens that I have on order.
So, give me my little point and shoot that fits into my pocket and can go anywhere with me without packing a rucksack.


John, I agree with earlier responders that the complexity of the camera won't bother you if you use the programmed exposure settings. Worry about the fancy stuff later when you feel like it.

As for the weight: try the 18-55 EFS kit lens. It's not as razor-sharp as your new lens (or lenses) but it's much better than the purists will admit. Cheap to try out, too. But cheap isn't the point: it's *really* light.

-js
.

[chuckandbob]

I think a lot of you here never shot with film cameras. A full digital SLR of today with a decent lens is no different than the camera's weight and feel from 25 years ago. Perhaps I'm used it.... but I like the feel of the 5D, with battery grip, and the heavier lenses.

[thekid24]

Very nice. Again, very nice. :D
Thanks

you're awesome. i love you. :oops:
I know I love me too

[WesternGuy]

John, I am with a lot of the others here...you've got to give it some time :) . I got into digital photography about a year or so ago after shooting film for more years than I care to admit to. I just recently upgraded my 350D to a 5D and initially found the increase in weight a bit disconcerting, :confused: but I am quickly getting used to it. It is about the same weight as the old EOS 630 that I used for film and I am really happy to have the full frame capability...my lenses actually shoot at the focal length they say.

Yes, the complexity of the camera takes some getting used to. My advice, shoot in fully Automatic or P mode for a while and gradually experiment with the other ones. I have had my 5D for a couple of months and am still shooting in P mode. I will start experimenting with the others soon. That is the joy of digital, you can experiment all you want and if it does not give you what you want, delete it, but learn in the process as you go along...that's the fun...the learning...keeps my mind going in my early retirement

I would hope in the long run you will find the quality of pictures you can take and the many things you can do with DSLR will outweigh the lighter weight of the P&S.

Hang in there!! :mrgreen:

Cheers,

WesternGuy

[Mike V]

Yeah, turn the autofocus on, put it in the fully auto (green square) mode and shoot away.

Soon enough you will be exploring the other modes.

Don't give up on it yet.

[JWright]

I'm 60 years old and I usually pack this rig (about 20lbs) and an eight pound tripod for a day out.

I think given time you'll adapt to the "weight" of the 400D and those lenses. Sure it's not a point and shoot, but it'll ring rings around them in terms of versatility and image quality. After a while you'll wonder why you didn't get it sooner...

My kit...

http://johnwright.smugmug.com/photos/127537945-M.jpg

[3dog]

Welcome John, you had to crawl before walking. I'm sure you find walking much more convenient, though crawling is easy. Such as with a DSLR. To get the most of your photography means you must learn something new and use tools that will facilite the best in your pictures. If that means you have to be able to lift about 5 pounds get some weights and exercise. You will appreciate the improved shots you get with your improved tools. DON'T GIVE INTO I'M TOO OLD FOR THIS! Old dogs can learn new tricks I saw it on Mythbuster so it's true. Now go break a lens.

[Jon, The Elder]

What happened to the OP?

Something isn't right here.

[number six]

I think a lot of you here never shot with film cameras. A full digital SLR of today with a decent lens is no different than the camera's weight and feel from 25 years ago. Perhaps I'm used it.... but I like the feel of the 5D, with battery grip, and the heavier lenses.

I bought my Nikon F (with FTN finder) new in 1969 and have run lots of film through it.

It weighs approximately 40 times as much as my Digital Rebel. At least after a long day.

:lol:

-js

[cdifoto]

Here is the bag Im offering, it may not be a Crumpler but its a starter:D
Lemme know:D

I have that bag. My Spotmatic, film, and a couple lenses fit in there nicely. :)

[pvibes]

Hi John,

I had heaps of difficulty learning my new camera 12 months ago but eventually it all starts to fall into place. For me joining a camera club and taking some adult education classes made all the difference in learning to use and enjoy my 'baby'.

Maybe give it a little longer, it does get easier.

Trish

[MagentaJoe]

Mr Tibbs must have gone on vacation.

[papucla10]

It took me almost a year to decide which camera to buy and after a lot of search I decided on the XT one year latter I am still learning, I now have a 20D the best advice I could give would be that you be patient use the auto functions for now until you start learning to use the manual functions on the camera Using P mode should help you a lot, also try to shoot only in RAW if using P mode, it will make things easier to fix in the future with a little of PP if the original picture you took when learning didn't come up as you expected.

Auto functions don't allow you to use RAW, P mode is almost like auto the good thing is that it lets you make some manual changes.

[tibbs]

Firstly let me apologise for the large font size I posted last time, I clicked on edit and tried to change it but failed. :)
I have since found out the reason, I wrote it in Word and then copied and pasted it into the forum. :o I hope this one is the right size.

Many many thanks to you all for your advice and encouragement regarding my 400D its very much appreciated. :D

I really do not think that I expressed myself and explained correctly.
On reading it back to myself you probably got the impression that I am a miserable old decrepit on his last legs old man. (read Jon, the elder’s post) :lol: :lol:
I am 63 years old (just had my birthday) I retired when I was 58 years old (lucky me) and myself and my wife are really enjoying life, one of our main interests is walking incorporating viewing birds and wildlife, hence me wanting a camera more suitable for our needs.

Before I explain; many thanks to “Thekid24” for the very kind offer of a free camera bag complete with s&h and all, and I must admit I was really touched by this response!

Even though I have had this camera for a very short time I have lived and breathed it ever since, spending hour after hour either reading about it, testing it and trying to master it, or comparing it with my Panasonic TX1, I have even purchased the book, "Digital Rebel XTi/400D" by Charlotte K Lowrie that was recomended to someone on "this" website I think, and I still come to the same conclusion every time, I much prefer the TZI.

The reasons are.
The Canon camera is useless in auto mode making terrible mistakes in the exposure most of the time, whereas the TZ1 gets it right 95% of the time, not only that, when using program mode on the Canon, to adjust the exposure, you have to take a shot, them view it to see if it wants any more adjustment before trying again, whereas the TZI has a live view, in that you adjust the white balance with one button as you actually see it in the viewfinder, in other words what you see is what you get. By the time you have done all that with the Canon any wildlife shot is miles away.

Auto bracket takes one second with one button to set up, whereas the Canon you have to fiddle about by going into the menu.

Mirror lockup on the Canon is not as affective as the 2 second timer on the TZI because its again a 1 second one button set up on the TZ1, it helps to alleviate camera shake while pressing the shutter button either hand held or on the tripod, and by the time you have pressed the shutter button and taken your finger away its taken the shot, where as, the canon you have to delve in the depths of the menu yet again, and any wildlife is long gone by the time its sorted, and you still have to press the shutter button to drop the mirror, or put it on a long timer.


The TZ1 you can set it to fire 3 shots either continua’s focus or set focus, “one button again” also if you hold the shutter button down it will take hundreds of shots until the memory card has expired.

The TZ1 has many different focus modes including a 9 area that covers the whole frame and also spot focus mode.

The TZ1 has spot metering mode.

The TZ1 has AF assist lamp instead of that silly flash thingy when trying to focus on the Canon, that frightened the living daylights out of one of the foxes that we feed each night when trying to take a photo of it. :evil:

The TZ1 has many more scene modes compared to the Canon, in other words it has taken the learner or novice into consideration!

And all this from a camera that fits in a shirt pocket without carrying all that weight and bulk.

But the biggest drawback of them all for me is the unwillingness of the Canon camera to take good shots in poor light.
Doing a like for like comparison with the Canon and TZ1 in poor light conditions, that is, in the woods behind my house in deep shade, mixed, and semi shade, on a tripod and also hand held, also indoors away from bright light from windows and doors, again on a tripod and hand held all of them in auto mode.

I took 3 shots from each camera in every situation hand held and tripod mounted, and every single shot that I took with TZ1 the lens speed was at least double the speed of the Canon which obviously made every hand held shot with the TZ1 sharper than the Canon, also the majority of the shots with the Canon were far too dark compared to the TZ1 which were bright crisp and clear.

Now the reason for wanting to change my camera was to get closer to the birds and wildlife, one by getting more zoom than the 10x times on my TZ1, and the second to get more pixels so as to be able crop my photo’s without losing too much detail.

Now looking at the results of my tests on the bad light situation, and as we do most of our walking in woodland where most of the wildlife is in shade, also the winter lighting conditions anywhere in the UK are to say the least mostly not favourable for the Canon.

To weigh the whole situation up as I see it, the best way to go, would be to keep my TZ1 for general use, and invest in one good fast lens for wildlife and bird photography with a camera that’s auto friendly for people like myself.

To sum up.
The TZ1 is a dream to use, I did expect the Canon to take as good a photograph if not better than my TZ1 in auto mode, and then go on to learn how to fine tune the photo’s by using aperture priority and shutter priority and all the other capabilities of the Canon, making the transition from a semi automatic camera to fully auto camera easier, but its not!

I am wondering if its just the wrong camera that I have bought for my particular needs, if there is a DSLR out there that is renowned as being capable of giving me as good a photo if not better than the TZ1 in the auto mode, also giving me the extra pixels so as to be able to crop and with a zoom to get me in closer, if so please let me know, I am willing to forsake the extra bulk and use that camera just for wildlife shooting.

I have pondered for over 24 hours wondering if to post this or not,
concerned that it may offend or upset someone, if it does, then I most sincerely apologise as no offence is intended in any way.

Regards.

Tibbs. (John)

[cdifoto]

Horses for courses, a P&S suits you. Nothing wrong with that. :)

[cylentka]

You've just made me want to buy a TZ1 for those times when I don't want to lug a DSLR around. ;) It sounds like a super wonderful little camera! Feel free to post some shots you have taken with both cameras. I'd love to see some of your comparison shots.

And like the poster above me said, a P&S suits you, and nothing wrong with that. Sorry you had to go through all that expense and bother, though.

[CorruptedPhotographer]

Get a really nice point and shoot man :)

Whats the problem? You could easily rid yourself of the camera by selling here or returning it if possible (with minor losses, but thats life some times).

[Jon, The Elder]

If you are interested in just snapping pictures and not serious photography, definately go back to the Point and Shoot type device.

This has been a really unusual thread.

[tibbs]

I am sorry but I find myself apologising again, then I posted my last letter I clicked onto the website from my favourites and thought that there had been no response since yesterday, but I realised later that with clicking from favourites the page was not updated. (Silly me)

Now after finding even more posts I am overwhelmed at the response and the kind encouragement from you kind folks, and I thank you very much as its very much appreciated.

I am even more amazed that after thekid24 so kindly offered the camera bag to me, it went one step further by taking the time to take a photograph of it and post it on the forum, I do not know what to say only that I am gob smacked (an English saying)

The only thing is, I am feeling a little uneasy and concerned with is the comments "twice" of Joh,The Elder,
Try as I may to decipher it, I can only come to the conclusion that he does not believe a word that I am saying and thinks that I am telling a load of lies!
For one thing, the reason I am late in replying is, I do not use the computer every day! especially with the good weather we are having in the UK at the moment, like yesterday I was out in the garden working, and also testing out the Canon again. (pictures below) tomorrow we are off very early as I am driving to Bodnant Gardens in Wales which is one of the most spectacular gardens in Britain this time of the year, with the possibility that we may stay overnight, I am going to take the CANON “out” on its first outing because I must admit yesterday I was impressed with it, “but it was a very bright day”

Below are just a few Items that may convince Jon,the Elder that I am who I say I am, I do not usually post personal items like this!!


The first link it to a small friendly photographic forum that I belong to which costs £5 a year, when you post a photo they give you advice on how to better them, brilliant for someone like me.
By the way, I go under the name of OXO, the photo’s that are posted are from the TZ1 which will prove that I am a novice and exist.
http://www.thestudio-online.co.uk/ (http://www.thestudio-online.co.uk/)


The second link is from a forum called IDF 50 which is designed for anyone over the age of 50, it has a camera forum and any images posted are from my Fujifilm 303 or my TZ1 (please don’t laugh at the quality) there again I go under the name of OXO.
I joined the Canon website under the name of TIBBS because that’s the name of another cat that I own, sorry I meant a cat that owns “ME”.
Sorry I can not give you the link because they are having server problems again, but when its up and running, just type in IDF 50 and look for OXO, I think I have been a member for about 2 year’s which is a few months after I had my first computer.




http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/oxooxo/canon053.jpg


Taken with the Canon.


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/oxooxo/canon052.jpg


Taken with the Canon.



http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/oxooxo/canon050.jpg


Taken with the Canon.



http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/oxooxo/canon003.jpg


Taken with the TZ1.


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/oxooxo/canon049.jpg


Taken with the ----- I can not remember.



http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/oxooxo/canon056.jpg


Canon.



http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/oxooxo/canon.jpg

Sorry, posted in two half's because of private details.




http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/oxooxo/canon056.jpg

Sorry I tried to post some images that I took yesterday with the Canon but it only let me post 8.

If anyone replies unfortunately I shall be away for at least 24 hours.

Regards.

Tibbs. (John)

[Lightstream]

If the TZ1 is that much better, why are you still keeping the Canon?

[cylentka]

FYI, your field guide was taken with the Canon, I checked your EXIF. :)

I could not see your photos on the site you posted without becoming a member. Feel free to upload some here, though. I would like to see what you've been able to accomplish with your point and shoot. I am not very experienced myself, so I'm loath to give specific advice on how to improve your Canon shots. Hopefully others will jump on board and help you out. I think you will like the Canon once you get used to it, if you don't mind the weight. For sharper pictures I would recommend a 30D or 5D, but they are more expensive and also heavier so not sure you'd want to invest in either.

[ebann]

Since we're talking about different models, I think you would be very very very happy with a Leica M8 (digital rangefinder) or perhaps a Leica Digilux 3 with the 4/3 lens system. I know I would... or even an Epson R-D1s!

[tibbs]

If the TZ1 is that much better, why are you still keeping the Canon?

In some respects the TZ1 is better than the Canon, better for someone like myself who is totally illiterate in photographic skills, and for most of the time used the IDIOT mode, please don't get me wrong I do realise that the Canon is far superior than the TZ1 in its photographic capabilities, and thats the reason after spending over two months on various websites including this one that I decided to purchase the 400D.
BUT, the main reason that I "have" to change is, my main hobby is wildlife and I would like to get in closer to my subjects, animals,birds, insects, so I need to have more Pixels so as to be able to crop closer without losing too much detail, and the capabilities of a zoom lens.

Why are you still keeping the Canon (QUOTE)

Because of the very kind encouragement of many of the members to persevere and to give it more time in deciding.

And I am willing and eager to learn!

Many thanks for asking.

[Lightstream]

In some respects the TZ1 is better than the Canon, better for someone like myself who is totally illiterate in photographic skills, and for most of the time used the IDIOT mode, please don't get me wrong I do realise that the Canon is far superior than the TZ1 in its photographic capabilities, and thats the reason after spending over two months on various websites including this one that I decided to purchase the 400D.
BUT, the main reason that I "have" to change is, my main hobby is wildlife and I would like to get in closer to my subjects, animals,birds, insects, so I need to have more Pixels so as to be able to crop closer without losing too much detail, and the capabilities of a zoom lens.

Why are you still keeping the Canon (QUOTE)

Because of the very kind encouragement of many of the members to persevere and to give it more time in deciding.

And I am willing and eager to learn!

Many thanks for asking.

The uncomfortable truth is that yes, you have to learn Everything, and you have to do it All At Once. And the first step is to stop using auto mode, start using at least P mode.

Maybe not all at once but the good photogs took years to get here. I've put 35,000 frames on all my DSLRs (not even including my point and shoots) over a few years just to get to where I am today. And I still have so far to go. I have yet to shoot my first useable panorama, and before I even get there, I have to understand what a nodal point is and how to map the points on my gear.

DSLR ownership involves a whole mindset paradigm shift. It is an investment not only in the camera but a commitment not unlike marriage. Know thy camera for better or for worse, know everything about it, its failings, its flaws, WHY they fail. Simultaneously know thy own failings. They call them Single Lens Reflex cameras because of the mirror.. and the results are very much, indeed moreso, a reflection of the operator than of the hardware. YOU take the picture, not the camera.

And it gets worse, you will not only need to study the camera and the entire craft of photography, you're going to have to study all the various kinds of lenses and what they are used for, their benefits, costs, limitations, and so on.

Start with an understanding of ISO, aperture and shutter speed and how these form the triangle of exposure.

[tibbs]

Hello Cylentka.

Thanks for your reply, I am fascinated how you got the EXIF data off the photo that I posted?? that little photographic website http://thestudio-online.co.uk/
has the data alongside the photo when you post, and I find it very useful in looking at the settings that people use hoping to pick up some tips.
I realise that you have to be a member to view photo's on the IDF 50 website (free) but I thought it was possible to view all the photo's with the exception of one forum without joining the http://thestudio-online.co.uk/ please try again, I did check it out for myself and forgot that I was a member (silly me) :rolleyes:

Thanks for recommending the other Canon models to me.

I have some photo's to post, 4 from 2 days ago taken at home in the garden, and 4 from yesterday taken in Wales from a woodland garden.

I am now trying out the camera in P mode and must admit that they do seem to come out better, but slap on the wrist for Canon in not making the Auto mode more friendly for people like myself hoping to make the transition from a small digital to a SLR losing the potential of more business for them.

[cylentka]

Hello Cylentka.

Thanks for your reply, I am fascinated how you got the EXIF data off the photo that I posted?? that little photographic website http://thestudio-online.co.uk/
has the data alongside the photo when you post, and I find it very useful in looking at the settings that people use hoping to pick up some tips.
I realise that you have to be a member to view photo's on the IDF 50 website (free) but I thought it was possible to view all the photo's with the exception of one forum without joining the http://thestudio-online.co.uk/ please try again, I did check it out for myself and forgot that I was a member (silly me) :rolleyes:

Thanks for recommending the other Canon models to me.

I have some photo's to post, 4 from 2 days ago taken at home in the garden, and 4 from yesterday taken in Wales from a woodland garden.

I am now trying out the camera in P mode and must admit that they do seem to come out better, but slap on the wrist for Canon in not making the Auto mode more friendly for people like myself hoping to make the transition from a small digital to a SLR losing the potential of more business for them.

I use Firefox as my browser (instead of Internet Explorer) and there is an add-on for Firefox that permits you to view the EXIF of a photo if you right-click the photo. It is very handy for studying how a photo was made.

I am glad you are trying P mode now. That is a good start. I have been shooting with DSLRs for less than a year (first a 350D and now a 5D), and I also experienced a decrease in photo quality when I first switched from a point and shoot (Canon G5) to DSLR. But now I am very proud of many of my photos, even though I have a long way to go to get professional results. There is much to learn, but Lightstream was telling you the absolute truth when he said you have to just jump in and learn it all. It is frustrating at times, but if you like photography is it well worth it. Just keep reading books and looking at photos on photo sites, then try your own shots, and you will gradually improve.

As for Canon's lousy auto mode, I suppose they didn't expect people to use it for long. I used auto mode for a month or so, then switched to AV mode, and that is what I use the most. I also use Photoshop CS2 to edit the photos, which lets me increase the sharpness, saturation, etc., to get the photo I want if I didn't get it right in the camera. There are cheaper photo editors that get very good results too, especially Photoshop Elements.

Hang in there and I think you will be loving your shots in a short while. :)

p.s. I cannot get anywhere on that photography site you linked to. It keeps asking for user name.

[tibbs]

Hi Lightstream our posts crossed, and as you see I have already started to venture further that the Auto mode.

There is one thing and one thing only that I am not happy with, which is still making me decide in either to sell or to invest in the 70-300 IS lens which I have on order.
I was out yesterday in a very large woodland garden owned by the National Trust, first time away from home with my camera 400D, I started off in Auto mode and took about a hundred shots, all the ones taken in full sun were great, all the ones taken in the various degrees of shade were useless!

It was then I decided to switch to P mode, all was then fine as each shot I viewed and if required I adjusted the white balance which was most of the time because of the very varied forms of shadow and shot again, later on in the day I even ventured into ISO and AV modes and enjoyed doing so.

But my worry is, I want the camera mainly 90% of the time for my hobby, which is any form of wildlife photography, now if the lighting level stayed the same "full sun etc" I would not be concerned, but going on my "very limited experience I am very concerned that any shots taken in ever changing lighting condition like yesterday, IE woodland etc I would either have unusable photo's or have missed over 90% of the shots because of the time taken to set them up.

Thats why I would like to know if I have chosen the wrong SLR for my needs, and if so, is there a SLR out there that does not have this problem so that I can sell the 400d and 17-85 IS and buy another that it more suitable for me.

Or is this problem I am getting all down to me and not the camera.

Advice and help would be very much appreciated as I am desperate to further my beloved hobby.(Wildlife)

Regards.

Tibbs.


Thanks again for replying.

Tibbs.

[tibbs]

I use Firefox as my browser (instead of Internet Explorer) and there is an add-on for Firefox that permits you to view the EXIF of a photo if you right-click the photo. It is very handy for studying how a photo was made.

I am glad you are trying P mode now. That is a good start. I have been shooting with DSLRs for less than a year (first a 350D and now a 5D), and I also experienced a decrease in photo quality when I first switched from a point and shoot (Canon G5) to DSLR. But now I am very proud of many of my photos, even though I have a long way to go to get professional results. There is much to learn, but Lightstream was telling you the absolute truth when he said you have to just jump in and learn it all. It is frustrating at times, but if you like photography is it well worth it. Just keep reading books and looking at photos on photo sites, then try your own shots, and you will gradually improve.

As for Canon's lousy auto mode, I suppose they didn't expect people to use it for long. I used auto mode for a month or so, then switched to AV mode, and that is what I use the most. I also use Photoshop CS2 to edit the photos, which lets me increase the sharpness, saturation, etc., to get the photo I want if I didn't get it right in the camera. There are cheaper photo editors that get very good results too, especially Photoshop Elements.

Hang in there and I think you will be loving your shots in a short while. :)

p.s. I cannot get anywhere on that photography site you linked to. It keeps asking for user name.

Thanks Cylentka for the encouragement and advice its very appreciated.

Regarding Fire Fox, I have heard about it but have never used it, thanks I will check it out, and Photshot CS2 I have recently invested in it but am in the very early learning staged. (like Photography :D )

[tibbs]

Yesterday at Bodnant Gardens.


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/oxooxo/BodnantGardensmay2007042.jpg


Straight from camera.



http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/oxooxo/BodnantGardensmay2007017.jpg

Straight from the camera



http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/oxooxo/BodnantGardensmay2007022.jpg


Straight from the camera.




http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/oxooxo/BodnantGardensmay2007050.jpg


Straight from the camera.

This is the problem I am getting in variable shade without doing any adjustments or using Auto in shade.




http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/oxooxo/canon018.jpg


Two days ago in my garden in full sun, if all shots came out like this I would be a happy man and treasure my 400d





http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/oxooxo/pcanon018.jpg


Cropped only.




http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/oxooxo/canon006.jpg


Straight from the camera.



http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/oxooxo/cgcanon006.jpg



Give it to me straight. (cropped only

[tibbs]

Sorry I forgot to say, after playing around with the various modes, I forgot to change the ISO back to Auto and noticed later that some of the shots including the blue flower had been shot at 800 ISO. :oops:

[ebann]

I think you needed fill-in flash for that duck shot. Without flash, those sun spots on the water will be blown out if you try to get proper exposure on the dark ducks. If you don't care about blown highlights then try the method below:

Outside during sunny day:
1) Set ISO to the lowest possible.
2) Set Av mode and select an aperture for your desired depth.
3) Focus and check shutter speed to see if too slow or not.
4) Take picture.
5) Check histogram to see where your "hills" are located. Try to have them positioned to the rightmost side without losing any "hills". In the duck shot, you will probably lose the water highlights (small "hills" on the right edge), but then again, you want the duck details.
6) Correct exposure by doing Exposure Compensation.
7) Re-take the shot. Repeat 5-7 until you get a good histogram.

[cylentka]

I was out yesterday in a very large woodland garden owned by the National Trust, first time away from home with my camera 400D, I started off in Auto mode and took about a hundred shots, all the ones taken in full sun were great, all the ones taken in the various degrees of shade were useless!

It was then I decided to switch to P mode, all was then fine as each shot I viewed and if required I adjusted the white balance which was most of the time because of the very varied forms of shadow and shot again, later on in the day I even ventured into ISO and AV modes and enjoyed doing so.

But my worry is, I want the camera mainly 90% of the time for my hobby, which is any form of wildlife photography, now if the lighting level stayed the same "full sun etc" I would not be concerned, but going on my "very limited experience I am very concerned that any shots taken in ever changing lighting condition like yesterday, IE woodland etc I would either have unusable photo's or have missed over 90% of the shots because of the time taken to set them up.


Please keep in mind that I'm still new at this too, but I wanted to say a few words based on my own experiences so far. First off, thinking of the adjustments takes time at first, but after a while you find yourself doing it fairly automatically and it doesn't take much time. When I first started using AV mode, I would forget to check aperture. Then when I learned how to adjust ISO, I would still forget to check it. Now I adjust ISO based on the lighting (admittedly this is much easier to do on the 5D than my 350D), then adjust aperture to get the shutter speed and DOF I'm seeking. I usually only adjust white balance when I'm shooting indoors. Its just something I've never gotten around to experimenting with. Again, it is easier to adjust white balance on the 5D so that would be simple if I ever got into that. I've noticed lots of people use exposure compensation when the lighting isn't to their liking. That is something I have been meaning to explore, but haven't had the time yet.

From the looks of your photos, you are definitely on the right track! Just keep learning and tweaking! Also, as you learn to edit the photos, you will see great improvement, I think. Then you can shoot RAW and salvage many photos that otherwise would go in the recycle bin.

[Permagrin]

Shooting with dslr's does take time/practice, especially coming from the P&S...but in the long run, once you learn the techniques that many have mentioned on this thread, you'll find you have a lot more control over your photos, which is something that I'm sensing was your original intent, by going the dslr route. I'd suggest picking up some books on ditial photography or even just photography (most bookstores have them on their sale racks) that explain the basics of shooting, just to give you an idea of what settings to use when....and I think that will help you immensely. You'll find as you switch (for example) metering modes, you have more control over light/shadows....or which ISO's to use at what times, will give you better exposure as well. Even things as simple as minimum focus distance will help in getting sharper focus for close up objects...there's so much to learn but it will be worth it in the long run. You'll get the photos that made you desire the upgrade in the first place. You've got some great advice on this thread to start you out. Good luck & good shooting! :)

[ebann]

Pretty soon you'll start noticing how cumbersome it is to change certain settings (e.g. exposure compensation and ISO) on the XXXD bodies. You'll then notice how much better the controls are on the XXD and XD bodies :-)

[tibbs]

Many thanks for all your very welcome advice to this bungling photography novice, I hope to take in all that you have said, it will be like trying to put a gallon in a pint pot. :rolleyes:

If I manage to get any further with my quest "I will be back" (so the saying goes)

I will be there lurking in the background hopefully watching and learning from all your experiences. :D

Thanks again.

Tibbs.

[redone]

Oh Tibbs, just came across this thread. You are exactly where I was about 6 months ago. I have moved on a little bit (in that i sort of understand why my pictures are crap now) since then after many hours here, buying the book Bryan Peterson's book "Understanding Exposure" and even taking his online course.

I too had taken pictures with a point and shoot and decided that i wanted better pictures, so i went a bought a better camera, problem solved right? wrong! I had NO CLUE how to make the camera take good shots, and i was getting angry that I had to fiddle with the controls everytime. I wanted to be able to point and shoot LOL.

Anyway, I have gotten over my frustration, settled down and decided that I needed to go to the basics and understand everything. I took me up until 2 months ago to learn about what a "meter" was in M mode. DUH! now i am trying to explain it to my friend so she can get out of auto mode.

Anyway, sorry for the long rant - keep in there, learn slowly, ask LOTS of questions no matter how dumb or simple you think they are.

You won't regret it. It will only take on e picture that you get with your SLR that you could not get with your P&S to convince you. I have faith!
Red

[MDJAK]

Shhhh, I heard Petkal changed his name to Tibbs after selling off his stuff.:rolleyes:
Panasonic makes fine P&S cameras. The TZ3 is even better; I just bought it for my daughter.

Try using it in less than good lighting and you'll see the advantage of the Canon. Anything north of ISO 400 and the pictures, if you can call them that, from the Panny suck.

me

[tibbs]

Redone, its nice to know that someone else know's how I feel, thanks :D

Mdjak, Yes must admit it is a little noisy, but I still love it! ;)



But all is not lost, I have at last found the perfect camera.


Folks. You are looking at the newest in the Canon line - the fool proof, idiot proof Canon 3D. I've managed to grab the newest Canon camera in production.

Sweet! It even has a rating scale that one can use at any photography contest websites.

This is just genius!

I specially like the fact that this camera has 26.5 megapixels and has the built in anti-shake mechanism. There are tons of features in this thing that makes it the best of the heap. Here are some of them:

- integrated Bose stereo playback system


- integrated iTunes player




- integrated scoring/rating system (so you can give 10s to yourself)


- fool proof On/Off button. activate this button and you'll have award winning shots ALL the time!


- anti-shake system


- built-in PANIC button just in case you take some candid shots and the girl's boyfriend runs after you. Use this button to immediately delete ALL traces of your shot


- built-in AUTOPILOT mechanism. This award winning button helps the photographer set everything PERFECTLY in the camera. Forget about the P-Mode in Manual!


- integrated GPS unit tells you where you are at ALL times


- automatic scene selector


- experience level setting allows one to choose between EXPERT and NOVICE


- instant USM and SATURATION on every shot (no more fooling around in PS)

New Feature:
- waterproof to 10ATMs

=
=
=
=
=
=

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/oxooxo/Canon.jpg

Please make a list here for those that are interested.

[gwills1]

I think i'll go back to my powershot lol

[Rachel B]

Hello.

Here is my story...I upgraded to a canon 30d after having an advanced point and shoot, I loved the point and shoot, and thought the DSLR would be great and an easy step up....The first day I took it out with the 50mm 1.8 I thought it was soooo heavy, I looked at the pictures when I got home and felt like you they were 'ok in bright light' but I couldn't get a good picture in the lower light. I read my manual and didnt understand a word of it, and spent my time googling words from the manual so I could find out what they mean.

I found myself taking pictures at a local cat shelter, where i would have to catch photographs in poor light fast moving kittens...I shot alot of the time at F1.8 which gave me a very small area in focus...the more I learnt about my camera the more I realised, I was doing it all wrong :) I had got stuck in the ways of the point and shoot with the tiny sensor, I hadn't realized just how much this camera was capable of. I started upping the ISO to 400 and shooting at F4 and F5 and I realised that actually these pictures were perfectly ok. If you zoom in the pictures at 100% you can see that they are not perfect-but when do you actually go round looking at any picture at 100%? not often.

I then bought the book understanding exposure by Brian Peterson - on recommendation of the people here. I love this book because it has photographs in it, I am a visual person and I learn by looking and doing, so instead of reading pages of the manual and none of it really being understood I had this book, that had two pictures side by side shot at different setting to show the difference that the settings make. I just thought I would mention the book incase you decide to keep your DSLR.

Anyway a year and a few months has passed since I bought my camera and I am in love, In April i bought a wide angle lens. once again I found this lens stupidly heavy, and was wondering how I would ever get a sharp shot with it as I had camera shake from the weight. Now I use it as my walk around lens and I only notice the weight when the camera is around my neck. The weight of the camera and lenses is something you get used to. my newest purchase is the 70-200 2.8L wit IS and that thing is going to give me muscles...I still haven't adjusted to the weight, but I know i will. I just have to go out and use it.

I have two point and shoot cameras too-a nikon coolpix s210-which is horrible and a panasonix tz5-this camera is great I love it, its perfect for when I go out with my hubby and we can take lots of snapshots with it. But ultimatly when I compare the two camera';s my DSLR and the Panasonic, I choose the DSLR anyway,because when I compare the two the quality of the DLR does win.

The 10second timer on the DSLR is a pain-I bought two things to overcome that-a remote cable release-so I can take pictures standing next to the camera without pressing the button (which can cause camera shake) and a remote release which means I stand in front of the camera and can take a self portrait by pressing the remote in my hand and the camera takes the picture-I go both of these on ebay for about $20 each.

You also said you were not sure about the lens you ordered. on this forum we have a lens photo archive...it looks like this is the lens you are contemplating CLICK HERE (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=146426) this has discussions and pictures taken with the lens. and here is the archive list of all the lenses (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=141406) I went through this list very thourally before buying my newest lens.

I also dont think there is such thing as the wron SLR I think you can ougrow an slr, but really is the lenses that you choose that will make the photographs you take.

Hope that helps a bit :)

[snyderman]

Hi Tibbs:

Welcome to the forum! Here's a suggestion, maybe already made. Next purchase: Tripod and ball head. This way you can load the camera onto the tripod, hang a bird feeder and wait for the 'easy pickin's' to come your way.

One of my feeders is on a post just beyond the deck. I can sit in a chair within 15' of the feeder with my 70-200 and take shots of birds from point blank range. When the weather turns, I move the feeder closer to the house and shoot from indoors!

Again, welcome. Many ways to overcome the 'weight' of this hobby.

dave

[Jaymz]

May want to check the dates on the posts. Last post before today was 23rd of May 2007 (Wed), 15:10

[AngryCorgi]

I am a silly old fool that should have had more sense

...you could have had a splendid future in the area of custom titles. :lol:

Maybe when he comes back he'll be overwhelmed with happiness at the new posts responding to him.

[Rachel B]

Ha I normally pay attention to thread dates..doh!

[AngryCorgi]

May want to check the dates on the posts. Last post before today was 23rd of May 2007 (Wed), 15:10

And last activity was March 2009, so he may have written POTN off...