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rcpilot_971
21st of May 2007 (Mon), 00:21
I was wondering how you would go about getting a press pass for a motorcycle event. do you have to be a pro or can you be a Amateur photog. the reason I ask is I was at the hangtowm MX this weekend and I seen photog with vest on that say press. and I was looking at some of there gear and some of them just had 30D with 70-200 F4 lens and I seen one with a 20D and a 30D with a sigma 24-70 and some other zoom not a 120-300 but I think he said it was 18- 300 or something like that. To me it just seems like these guys got press passes some how just to take pictures for there self or to get access to parts of the track and the pits.


Thanks
Tim

MJPhotos24
21st of May 2007 (Mon), 00:40
You need to be affiliated with someone, no company is just handing out press passes to the general public (or at least not any I've ever seen). Great gear or a P&S, if they have a pass those images are going to a media outlet, maybe just little ones though. I've shot concerts before with kids (literally 13-14) who had a P&S and a press pass for some local kids section of the paper, a website, etc. It annoyed me a little bit, because they didn't know what to do in the pits and got in the way of the bigger outlet photogs but hey, you work around them.

Sometimes media directors will help amateurs, I know I've gotten a friend of mine a press pass at a couple games and my name was the media outlet on it because I was trying to teach him some things about shooting sports he's never shot. The media director gave him a pass as long as I babysat him and let him know the rules. So it was more like he was my assistant than actually shooting the event for an outlet, and plus this was only one team - I know other teams wouldn't of allowed it.

liza
21st of May 2007 (Mon), 00:47
Work for the press.

blackshadow
21st of May 2007 (Mon), 00:50
This is very general and not specific to motorsport.
By very definition a press pass means you are accredited by the event organisers to shoot for a press outlet. The usual thing is for a media outlet to apply to the organiser or their publicist for a photographer to cover the event. Once you have established media credentials then you are often able to shoot as a freelancer because the organisers or their publicists will know that you will deliver quality images to publications with a high likelihood they will be published.
The gear photographers use has nothing to do with them being professional or not; as long as the publications they work for are happy with the images they supply that's what matters not what gear they use.
Put yourself in the organisers shoes and ask "how does giving rcpilot a press photo pass benefit me?" When you can come up with a number of reasons how then you will get your pass.

ssim
21st of May 2007 (Mon), 05:45
Not every professional photographer in the world shoots with 1 series equipment. Your analogy that if they get in with a 1.6 crop factor body then you should too just doesn't hold true in the world of reality.

This subject has been covered fairly extensively on the forum. Here are a few thread that I turned up on a search for "press credentials"

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=318784&

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=309736&

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=300804&

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=288719&

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=216454&

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=283324&

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=284108&

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=277361&

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=261656&

Racer23
21st of May 2007 (Mon), 06:30
You can get lucky, I called an organization told them I usually shot for magazine "X" (not related in the sport) and had a weekend off. and was able to get one. It was a new venue and like I said, I got lucky. Now the promoters know me as well as the organization and have no trouble getting them in the future. Sometimes right place at the right time.

Converge
21st of May 2007 (Mon), 11:20
You get a press pass from the organization that you are shooting for. Events typically dont just give out press passes to people unless they are there on an assignment and their organization requests one.

I have a press pass for the newspaper that I work for. That pretty much gets me most places i need to go. If its a bigger event, like a concert or large sporting event, my paper gets me a special press pass FOR THAT specific event from the event coordinator (if they require their own press passes) before my assignment

primoz
21st of May 2007 (Mon), 13:48
I was just talking yesterday with friend about this "equipment thing". People relate pro to 1d (now preferably mk3 and at least 2 of them), almost complete collection of L lenses etc. It's not really like this. If you are doing things for fun, money is not really limit. For hobby, you are ready to spend more, and it's good thing. Money should be there so you are able to have fun, not to be laying on bank account.
For pros things are different. This is just a job. Yes sometimes really nice one, but other times really shi**y one, just as every other job is. But when it comes to money it matters if you spend $5000 for lens or $500. In last case you have $4500 extra on the end of month. And let's face it... you don't always need $20k worth of equipment to get good enough photo. And watch out... I'm talking about good enough photos, not perfect photos. Point in being pro is that you have good enough photos that your clients are happy. It's not about having perfect photo, it's about making clients happy. So if you are able to do this with $500 lens, why to bother spending $5000 just to look cool. And once standing on sideline noone bothers with looking cool... well at least I, and those guys who I regularly meet on sidelines, don't.

gmen
21st of May 2007 (Mon), 17:02
This is just a job. Yes sometimes really nice one, but other times really shi**y one, just as every other job is. But when it comes to money it matters if you spend $5000 for lens or $500. In last case you have $4500 extra on the end of month. And let's face it... you don't always need $20k worth of equipment to get good enough photo. And watch out... I'm talking about good enough photos, not perfect photos. Point in being pro is that you have good enough photos that your clients are happy. It's not about having perfect photo, it's about making clients happy. So if you are able to do this with $500 lens, why to bother spending $5000 just to look cool. And once standing on sideline noone bothers with looking cool... well at least I, and those guys who I regularly meet on sidelines, don't.This is perhaps the wisest post I've ever read here. Spot on Primoz.

---- Gavin

turbo212003
21st of May 2007 (Mon), 18:09
I know a local photographer that uses 20d's, not pro level but he makes BANK.

blackshadow
22nd of May 2007 (Tue), 01:51
Hear hear primoz - that post should be a sticky on it's own titled "What makes a pro photographer"

jdilldesigns
22nd of May 2007 (Tue), 15:38
I was just talking yesterday with friend about this "equipment thing". People relate pro to 1d (now preferably mk3 and at least 2 of them), almost complete collection of L lenses etc. It's not really like this. If you are doing things for fun, money is not really limit. For hobby, you are ready to spend more, and it's good thing. Money should be there so you are able to have fun, not to be laying on bank account.
For pros things are different. This is just a job. Yes sometimes really nice one, but other times really shi**y one, just as every other job is. But when it comes to money it matters if you spend $5000 for lens or $500. In last case you have $4500 extra on the end of month. And let's face it... you don't always need $20k worth of equipment to get good enough photo. And watch out... I'm talking about good enough photos, not perfect photos. Point in being pro is that you have good enough photos that your clients are happy. It's not about having perfect photo, it's about making clients happy. So if you are able to do this with $500 lens, why to bother spending $5000 just to look cool. And once standing on sideline noone bothers with looking cool... well at least I, and those guys who I regularly meet on sidelines, don't.

I must say, thats the best thing I have read on this forum so fare!

Glennard
27th of May 2007 (Sun), 15:29
I freelance for a very large newspaper, and I use a 400D. As long as they get good pictures and I make good money, what's the reason for me to have a 1 series?

themirage
27th of May 2007 (Sun), 16:25
What if I start a business where papers can purchase rights to my photos. I wouldn't be press but I sell my imagery to the media as a legit company. Do you think that would work as a means to getting a 'press' pass?

vwpilot
27th of May 2007 (Sun), 17:04
What if I start a business where papers can purchase rights to my photos. I wouldn't be press but I sell my imagery to the media as a legit company. Do you think that would work as a means to getting a 'press' pass?

Not unless one of those papers is going to get the pass for you. Most organizations will not assign a press pass on the "hopes" that you might sell something to a paper after the fact. You need to be working for that press outlet or need to be on assignment for them. The organization needs to know they are getting something out of giving you the press pass, not that they might because you want one.

primoz
28th of May 2007 (Mon), 00:54
Well it depends Jim :) Reuters, Getty, AFP etc. are all doing exactly this. Also whole bunch of small(er) photo agencies are doing this, at least around here. But I agree there's "a bit" difference between Reuters and someone who decided to establish his own photo agency :)

Croasdail
28th of May 2007 (Mon), 01:05
I was just talking yesterday with friend about this "equipment thing". People relate pro to 1d (now preferably mk3 and at least 2 of them), almost complete collection of L lenses etc. It's not really like this. If you are doing things for fun, money is not really limit. For hobby, you are ready to spend more, and it's good thing. Money should be there so you are able to have fun, not to be laying on bank account.
For pros things are different. This is just a job. Yes sometimes really nice one, but other times really shi**y one, just as every other job is. But when it comes to money it matters if you spend $5000 for lens or $500. In last case you have $4500 extra on the end of month. And let's face it... you don't always need $20k worth of equipment to get good enough photo. And watch out... I'm talking about good enough photos, not perfect photos. Point in being pro is that you have good enough photos that your clients are happy. It's not about having perfect photo, it's about making clients happy. So if you are able to do this with $500 lens, why to bother spending $5000 just to look cool. And once standing on sideline noone bothers with looking cool... well at least I, and those guys who I regularly meet on sidelines, don't.

I will add an amen to this one. You need to have the right tools for the job, but just as with any investment in equipment a company would make, over spending where there is no real ROI based on the additional expense. 90% of what I produce ends up reproduced on the web or in news print. My crankie old 1D does that job just fine. Am a great photographer ... heck no! But my stuff is good enough - which is a side issue for me for another day. I hate being just good enough. But at the end of the day, the customer is happy, so I should be too.

But to your initial question, like Liza said, work for the press then. There is a good reason why the average joe blow doesn't have the same access.... and it is rarely to keep them them from getting cool shots. Media work under silly timelines, and they absolutely need to get the shots - not just want to. Consideration is made so these people can get their jobs done... whether it be for a small local or for a wire agency. With that said, getting great shots from public areas should not be an issue. You just need to be more creative. The opportunities for shots are there, you just need to find them. And be willing to earn your stripes on smaller events first. They are often much more accomidating.

Croasdail
28th of May 2007 (Mon), 01:09
Well it depends Jim :) Reuters, Getty, AFP etc. are all doing exactly this. Also whole bunch of small(er) photo agencies are doing this, at least around here. But I agree there's "a bit" difference between Reuters and someone who decided to establish his own photo agency :)

Exactly.... I do a ton of agency spec work. But it takes relationships to get in the door very often, which takes time to develop. But even then, the minimums for image size has slowly been creeping up where I will have to retire my old 1D this year.

blackshadow
28th of May 2007 (Mon), 21:14
The best known and probably most successful music photographer in Australia shoots everything on old Nikon film cameras (F3s I think). He knows what he is doing and gets results and gets paid!
As has been said before in this thread professionals use the gear they need to deliver the results to their clients.

solrain
29th of May 2007 (Tue), 17:47
What if I start a business where papers can purchase rights to my photos. I wouldn't be press but I sell my imagery to the media as a legit company. Do you think that would work as a means to getting a 'press' pass?

Ok...I am a freelance rock concert photographer and sometimes AP stringer. I am a full time working pro. Dealing with press passes was/is a daily thing for me.

You still need an affiliation with a media outlet to get a pass. You are going about this backwards. Target 5-6 magazines/newspapers that you would like to submit to. Make an appointment to show them your portfolio (Fed Ex it if you need to). Once they look at your work, ask them if they would like to send you out on occasional assignments on "spec." When and if they say yes, you will then spend time finding assignments and suggesting them. Once you suggest something they want, THEY will arrange the press pass for you.

After the assignment, you show them them work, they buy the shots and you wash, rinse and repeat day in and day out. Once you "get on" with 3 or 4 magazines you will find getting on with the rest of your target market comes easy, if you are very very good.

You can make a living at this. But you will spend an awful lot of time in the office. When I am working, I have someone suggesting assignments and dealing with the editors for me, so I am out shooting.

The worst thing you can do, is to try to represent yourself into getting a press pass. Go about it the right way, by stringing for legitimate media outlets.

solrain
29th of May 2007 (Tue), 17:53
The best known and probably most successful music photographer in Australia shoots everything on old Nikon film cameras (F3s I think). He knows what he is doing and gets results and gets paid!
As has been said before in this thread professionals use the gear they need to deliver the results to their clients.

I intentionally shoot with only what I need to get the job done correctly. Equipment gets stolen and damaged in my field for me to be lugging around $14,000 worth of "impress" quality gear. All it takes is your gear to get stolen once, and you figuring out all you needed was a 30d and 50mm 1.8 to get the job done, and you'll learn.

Geejay
30th of May 2007 (Wed), 09:34
Presumably there are times when less gear is desirable, as it doesn't always pay to 'look' like a pro? Lugging around a bunch of big white lens and a couple of 1Ds etc.. could be a bit obvious....

neil_r
30th of May 2007 (Wed), 09:44
You may have more luck if you apply for Media Accreditation (Press Pass is not a generally accepted term and the use of it implies that you are not eligible for one)

Most events / venues have strict guidelines for issuing accreditation, you will normally see a line like "Accreditation is strictly reserved for members of the press i.e. print media, photo, radio, TV, film and news agencies - who fully meet media accreditation requirements." when you apply.

solrain
30th of May 2007 (Wed), 19:33
Presumably there are times when less gear is desirable, as it doesn't always pay to 'look' like a pro? Lugging around a bunch of big white lens and a couple of 1Ds etc.. could be a bit obvious....

My work is proof that I am a Pro. I don't need to "put on the Dog" to prove it. My concern is what my clients think, not the other photographers in the pit. Of course I don't go running into a Pro situation with a disposable camera. But people that over buy equipment to impress others are making a mistake. Buy exactly what you need to do your job, and do it correctly.

Your professional behavior counts more than your equipment when potential clients are hiring you. If you don't own a big white lens, and don't need it often, rent it. Some clients do have equipment requirements and if you are hired by them infrequently, again the rental house is your friend.

If you need 2 5D's or Marks and L glass on a weekly basis, by all means buy it. But don't lug a whale on the job if you won't be using it. Honestly very few people care. You really don't impress long timers with great equipment. I am more impressed by the photographer who throughly knows his or her equipment and knows how to expose, light and compose. Any idiot with a credit card can buy gear. Clients know that. Don't buy into the "gotta" have the best toys game. It's a fools game and a waste of money.

solrain
30th of May 2007 (Wed), 19:35
Many of us on this side of the Pond still call it a press pass. We Americans can be a little slow to use proper English. :shock:

You may have more luck if you apply for Media Accreditation (Press Pass is not a generally accepted term and the use of it implies that you are not eligible for one)

Most events / venues have strict guidelines for issuing accreditation, you will normally see a line like "Accreditation is strictly reserved for members of the press i.e. print media, photo, radio, TV, film and news agencies - who fully meet media accreditation requirements." when you apply.

Geejay
31st of May 2007 (Thu), 07:49
My work is proof that I am a Pro. I don't need to "put on the Dog" to prove it. My concern is what my clients think, not the other photographers in the pit. Of course I don't go running into a Pro situation with a disposable camera. But people that over buy equipment to impress others are making a mistake. Buy exactly what you need to do your job, and do it correctly.

Your professional behavior counts more than your equipment when potential clients are hiring you. If you don't own a big white lens, and don't need it often, rent it. Some clients do have equipment requirements and if you are hired by them infrequently, again the rental house is your friend.

If you need 2 5D's or Marks and L glass on a weekly basis, by all means buy it. But don't lug a whale on the job if you won't be using it. Honestly very few people care. You really don't impress long timers with great equipment. I am more impressed by the photographer who throughly knows his or her equipment and knows how to expose, light and compose. Any idiot with a credit card can buy gear. Clients know that. Don't buy into the "gotta" have the best toys game. It's a fools game and a waste of money.

Where did that come from :?

I was not commenting on your ability or behaviour as a pro photographer. Neither was I questioning your credentials. I was merely trying to build on the point, that having loads of gear is not an essential element of being a pro photographer or even a good photographer and that on occasions less is in fact more. But hey, whatever...

Ahhh... America and England, two countries divided by a common language (not to mention several thousand miles of water).. :)

Incidentally, if I've completely misinterpreted your response (and made an a**se of myself). Please accept my sincere apologies..

Cheers!

neil_r
31st of May 2007 (Thu), 08:53
I read this differently, and I still do, from what I see you two guys are agreeing with each other :-)

solrain
31st of May 2007 (Thu), 18:08
You gpt me all wrong. :) I wasn't using myself as an example or speaking about me personally. I was pointing out, that a pro is a pro because of their ability and not how they look holding some whale of a lens. :)

Where did that come from :?

I was not commenting on your ability or behaviour as a pro photographer. Neither was I questioning your credentials. I was merely trying to build on the point, that having loads of gear is not an essential element of being a pro photographer or even a good photographer and that on occasions less is in fact more. But hey, whatever...

Ahhh... America and England, two countries divided by a common language (not to mention several thousand miles of water).. :)

Incidentally, if I've completely misinterpreted your response (and made an a**se of myself). Please accept my sincere apologies..

Cheers!

Roger-Walker
16th of June 2007 (Sat), 16:22
Just looking at Silverstone's policy (that available online):

To qualify for media accreditation you must fall into one of the following categories:

Working print journalist for publicly seen newspaper, magazine, news service or newsletter
Working broadcast journalist
Working website journalist
Working photographers You do NOT qualify for media accreditation if you fall within one of the following categories:

Public relations and internal communications practitioners
Non-journalist staff of media outlets such as sales and advertising teams
Representative of fan websites
Representatives of marketing or advertising agencies
Team personnel

They then ask for:
Upload an example of published work
Upload letter of accreditation

asysin2leads
16th of June 2007 (Sat), 23:16
The difference between a professional and an amateur is one thing. ATTITUDE!

neil_r
17th of June 2007 (Sun), 07:50
The difference between a professional and an amateur is one thing. ATTITUDE!

and the small matter of one getting paid for their work and the other not.

Roger-Walker
17th of June 2007 (Sun), 08:40
and the small matter of one getting paid for their work and the other not.
Shouldn't that be making a living from their work and the other not...

neil_r
17th of June 2007 (Sun), 09:30
Shouldn't that be making a living from their work and the other not...
Indeed, forgive my clumsy use of English.

john300sl
18th of September 2007 (Tue), 13:29
Liza, Kinda of a curt answer. Rcpilot_971 is just looking for some help. Perhaps he is just new to this.
john300sl

mrludecrs
31st of May 2008 (Sat), 23:27
This is probably a naive question coming from an amateur, but it seems like you have to jump through hoops for each press pass for each event. If you are a very established photographer, don't you just bypass the bureaucracy at some point? Stroll into any event, get the nod and snap away?

narlus
31st of May 2008 (Sat), 23:40
This is probably a naive question coming from an amateur, but it seems like you have to jump through hoops for each press pass for each event. If you are a very established photographer, don't you just bypass the bureaucracy at some point? Stroll into any event, get the nod and snap away?


never.

richard nailed it:
By very definition a press pass means you are accredited by the event organisers to shoot for a press outlet. The usual thing is for a media outlet to apply to the organiser or their publicist for a photographer to cover the event. Once you have established media credentials then you are often able to shoot as a freelancer because the organisers or their publicists will know that you will deliver quality images to publications with a high likelihood they will be published.
The gear photographers use has nothing to do with them being professional or not; as long as the publications they work for are happy with the images they supply that's what matters not what gear they use.
Put yourself in the organisers shoes and ask "how does giving rcpilot a press photo pass benefit me?" When you can come up with a number of reasons how then you will get your pass.

JWright
1st of June 2008 (Sun), 18:08
This is probably a naive question coming from an amateur, but it seems like you have to jump through hoops for each press pass for each event. If you are a very established photographer, don't you just bypass the bureaucracy at some point? Stroll into any event, get the nod and snap away?

Here are some of the media accreditation badges I have gotten over the last year. If you have the proper documents and identification from your publication, then the process is pretty straightforward. Most of it can be done through e-mail or on-line. Even the military is using on-line media applications these days...

http://JohnWright.smugmug.com/photos/305398593_UhFsg-L.jpg

I was wondering how you would go about getting a press pass for a motorcycle event. do you have to be a pro or can you be a Amateur photog. the reason I ask is I was at the hangtowm MX this weekend and I seen photog with vest on that say press. and I was looking at some of there gear and some of them just had 30D with 70-200 F4 lens and I seen one with a 20D and a 30D with a sigma 24-70 and some other zoom not a 120-300 but I think he said it was 18- 300 or something like that. To me it just seems like these guys got press passes some how just to take pictures for there self or to get access to parts of the track and the pits.

Thanks

Tim

In answer to your question about gear, I go to these airshows and the like and I see plenty of people in the media pits shooting with cameras that could be considered "less than pro" grade. (I shoot with a 20D and D60 myself.) My paper has one writer who illustrates his own articles with a P&S.

cory1848
2nd of June 2008 (Mon), 08:27
I was in a similar situation in January. One the largest motorcycle stunting events comes to town and I wanted in. After researching and getting answering very similar to this thread, I found the contact info of the person handling media and emailed them asking if I could shoot. Plain and simple, I just asked, She said sure. Only condition was that they get copies of the photos. So, just by simply asking, I got into the event for free, got media access for two days and got some great shots. I signed a release for the photos, and gave them to her on CD. They never specified size requirements so they got web quality images. Which is mostly what they use them for anyways.

So, my suggestion is try just asking. Never know. This event was one of the largest for stunting but it doesnt compare to say nascar or IRL racing...so depending on the size of the venue, you may get lucky.

andrewr001
1st of August 2008 (Fri), 05:13
I was in a similar situation in January. One the largest motorcycle stunting events comes to town and I wanted in. After researching and getting answering very similar to this thread, I found the contact info of the person handling media and emailed them asking if I could shoot. Plain and simple, I just asked, She said sure. Only condition was that they get copies of the photos. So, just by simply asking, I got into the event for free, got media access for two days and got some great shots. I signed a release for the photos, and gave them to her on CD. They never specified size requirements so they got web quality images. Which is mostly what they use them for anyways.

So, my suggestion is try just asking. Never know. This event was one of the largest for stunting but it doesnt compare to say nascar or IRL racing...so depending on the size of the venue, you may get lucky.


So you Press Pass cost you maybe 200 ????? !!!

Thats the money a Pro would have earned from supplying pictures - a very expensive pass my amateur friend :-)

elysium
1st of August 2008 (Fri), 05:17
I was wondering how you would go about getting a press pass for a motorcycle event. do you have to be a pro or can you be a Amateur photog. the reason I ask is I was at the hangtowm MX this weekend and I seen photog with vest on that say press. and I was looking at some of there gear and some of them just had 30D with 70-200 F4 lens and I seen one with a 20D and a 30D with a sigma 24-70 and some other zoom not a 120-300 but I think he said it was 18- 300 or something like that. To me it just seems like these guys got press passes some how just to take pictures for there self or to get access to parts of the track and the pits.


Thanks
Tim
You need to have credentials in that field so usually published work on a regular basis or working with a company directly.

What you have to remember, most POTN members love photography and make sure they have the best gear. Not all sports photographers will use the best gear. Some will use whatever gets the job done to get an acceptable picture and may not bother with the best shutter speed or composition. As long as they capture what they are paid for.

I noticed this during the press day at the London Motor Show. It was all about getting the photo and getting it sent for publication as soon as possible.

ilantis
4th of August 2008 (Mon), 01:01
I noticed this during the press day at the London Motor Show. It was all about getting the photo and getting it sent for publication as soon as possible.
So were they just throwing their cameras on full auto, shooting till the buffer filled, and then scrambling for a WiFi hotspot to get theirs in first? (A bit overdramatic, I know :razz:)

I sure hope that isn't the case more often than it is. :( Has anyone here watched their superior image lose out to a lesser one because they didn't beat the other guy to the punch?

elysium
4th of August 2008 (Mon), 02:11
So were they just throwing their cameras on full auto, shooting till the buffer filled, and then scrambling for a WiFi hotspot to get theirs in first? (A bit overdramatic, I know :razz:)

I sure hope that isn't the case more often than it is. :( Has anyone here watched their superior image lose out to a lesser one because they didn't beat the other guy to the punch?
Pretty much from what I saw. Composition isnt an issue for everyday readers so the photographers did not really bother. They may have used one of the program modes or full manual but I saw a lot of pop up flashes on the loose, EVEN on press day. Was a sad sight to see. Few people came with remote cables and tripods which made me smile since I could see some thought but that was later during the day.

Some photographers in here and others at the show would take the time to compose shots even if it did take a few more minutes but like the OP was saying, his gear wasn't top notch. It never needs to be depending on what you are going for.

If you are interested, some of my work from the Motor Show - Press day is on my site. http://www.clarity-rebirth.co.uk

Im trying to find some pictures to compare it to. Aha, http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/content/image_galleries/motorshow2008_gallery.shtml?1

OK, thats just an example but im sure there are better from journalists/press on the net.

Hark Photography
5th of August 2008 (Tue), 07:43
I was at the Red Bull Air races in London this weekend .... The medai team claimed to have clamped down on misuse of press accreditaion ...ie people with P&S however the proof of the pudding really came as the rain started. I looked around and all of a sudden out of the hundreds in the media centre there were about 10 of us left ... clearly it wasnt hard to tell who was there becuase they genuinly needed to get shots.

There were a few guys there who worked for some large media organisations in IT departments but had been allowed to use the organistion name to get their passes ..... they were honest enough to admit it when asked who they were shooting for and importantly they knew how to behave. They were there to improve their knowledge, asked pertinant questions and were a pleasure to work around

Having staked my claim to my shooting space I had to ask a number of people to get thier fat asses out of the way .... they werent even shooters. one other gripe is that in the pit lane I have my shots lined up, the subject is talking to me and concentrating on my lens then some idiot ... non pro walks up with a 400d - kit lens and no ext flash and stands right in front of me .....wa*****r .... gripe over.

For Amatuers who want to build up accreditaion pick your events carefully .... start off with small local events where they will welcome you, learn how to position yourself without disrupting the event ... learn how to interact with the talent and build relationships with them and learn how to work with other togs around you ... we all want good images at the endo of the day and usually have different perspective of what that image is.
When your starting out dont push in front of the guy with the 400l 2:8 and MKIII ds he wont thank you for it and pro togs talk.

Getting accreditaion comes with responsibility .... otherwise the process will become impossible for all but the top pro's

narlus
5th of August 2008 (Tue), 11:48
For Amatuers who want to build up accreditaion pick your events carefully .... start off with small local events where they will welcome you, learn how to position yourself without disrupting the event ... learn how to interact with the talent and build relationships with them and learn how to work with other togs around you ... we all want good images at the endo of the day and usually have different perspective of what that image is. When your starting out dont push in front of the guy with the 400l 2:8 and MKIII ds he wont thank you for it and pro togs talk.

Getting accreditaion comes with responsibility .... otherwise the process will become impossible for all but the top pro's

quoted for truth. everyone wants the instant payback. it's actually pretty hard work to get established.

dinanm3atl
8th of August 2008 (Fri), 19:47
Very good reading in here. Looking to find local events to start :)

fortisi876
20th of September 2008 (Sat), 00:39
This answered a few of my questions but I have more: :D

- what if you shot a larger event and happen to have some decent images from it, how would you folks recommend this person in showing their work to orgs who might want to use you for the next event?
Put together a portfolio and just send it to them via snailmail or shoot them an email with a link to your site, hoping they like what they see?
What's the proper way to go about this?


- Also, how does it usually work when one achieves those media accreditations?
For an example, let's say some MC magazine says we'll provide you with media accreditations for the next big race, do they pay you a daily rate and then they own all your images or are you expected to provide them with x amount of images at some agreed rate then anything after that is yours to sell freely?

Excuse my amateurish inquiries but Im just trying to get an idea of how all this works. Im hoping to break into the freelance market within the next cpl of yrs.

TIA!

fortisi876
21st of September 2008 (Sun), 11:34
No one??? :(

neil_r
21st of September 2008 (Sun), 11:47
No one??? :(
Yep kinda looks like that

fortisi876
22nd of September 2008 (Mon), 08:48
Yep kinda looks like that LOL.....most certainly does!

Wanna know what makes this a bit ironic?

The very ppl (pros) who can answer my questions will be the first ones to piss n moan on these forums about some "amateur" undercutting their livelihood and how they should be neutered. :lol:

I came on here to get a better understanding on how this field works, I did a search or two and didnt get all the answers Im asking. If it's been beat to death Im sorry but I havent found those threads yet. Oh well.

jpwone
22nd of September 2008 (Mon), 13:52
This answered a few of my questions but I have more: :D

- what if you shot a larger event and happen to have some decent images from it, how would you folks recommend this person in showing their work to orgs who might want to use you for the next event?
Put together a portfolio and just send it to them via snailmail or shoot them an email with a link to your site, hoping they like what they see?
What's the proper way to go about this?


- Also, how does it usually work when one achieves those media accreditations?
For an example, let's say some MC magazine says we'll provide you with media accreditations for the next big race, do they pay you a daily rate and then they own all your images or are you expected to provide them with x amount of images at some agreed rate then anything after that is yours to sell freely?

Excuse my amateurish inquiries but Im just trying to get an idea of how all this works. Im hoping to break into the freelance market within the next cpl of yrs.

TIA!

Seems to me I'm answering this backwards but here goes.

Lets say you have some images from a series of events that you have covered. Pick the very best of these. Put them on a single web page (watermark each image) and identify the date, time and location. Send the link out to relevant publications as an example of your work and advising them of your availability to cover a specific event or series of events. By identifying events you show you understand a bit about their publication and the event to be covered.

Freelance rates and arrangements can be very different depending on who you are, where you are, the event being covered and which publication you are dealing with. In broad terms you can expect to:-

a.) shoot for a fixed rate and hand over any images to the publication. This is straight work for hire and you retain no rights to the images. Most photographers would like to discourage this (for obvious reasons) and some will refuse work if it is offered on this basis.

b.) You shoot for a fixed rate and give the publication pre-determined usage for an agreed number of images. You retain copyright but part of the usage agreement will probably exclude you selling the same or similar images to other editorial organisations.

c.) You shoot for a fixed rate and get paid for any subsequent usage of images you submit.

d.) You shoot on spec for an organisation. You only get paid should they choose to use an image you supply.

Mixed into all this are thing like exclusivity agreements, expenses, travel costs etc etc.

Note: you cannot do anything you want with the images you take. They can be used only editorially or as agreed with the event organiser and with appropriate releases. As a media accredited photographer you will probably not be able to sell prints etc (depending upon the event). Owning copyright does not give you the right to use an image commercially. Don't confuse any usage rights you may or may not have and copyright.

ChrisRabior
22nd of September 2008 (Mon), 14:38
To sum up what John said, you have to be proactive in contacting them, professional in showing them something they might want to publish or something that might tempt them to use you, and hopeful that they're going to have a use for you or your work.

The terms? John hit the nail right on the head for that as well. Things are going to be different for every single event you cover. Hell, sometimes they're different even though it's the same publisher contracting out the work. Just be sure you get the agreement in writing.. and you have a good understanding of what you'll be paid and what exactly you're offering them in terms of licensing and rights.

btw, no need to knock people for not responding.. some of us don't LIVE in the forums. we'll get to you eventually =)
Also, if you think your post is getting lost in the shuffle.. there's nothing wrong with a 'bump' post after a few days without a response

MJPhotos24
22nd of September 2008 (Mon), 21:42
I knew I shoulda turned down those assignments and not worked all week, there was questions to be answered on here by someone trying to take my livelihood - if only I didn't take my first day off in over a month and go buy a new scalpel. Now which newbie is first?

Seriously though Chris is right, posts get lost at times and don't get a response for a bit or sometimes at all. There's thousands of threads on here and one like this with a good amount of responses might get skipped over because people don't feel like joining in because a lack of time to read it all. The questions asked have been answered on here before, sure they're somewhere lost in the search box with the right words.

To ad on to what's been said, publications and organizations differ. Research the company or organization. What photographers do they use, who is it (can you compete with there results), do they use an agency exclusively, is the photographer on staff or hired out for specific events, exclusive for all that organizations events, etc. There's a lot of factors you try to find out before calling or emailing blind. Think of it as a job interview and you want to know as much about them as possible. For example if a magazine exclusively uses a wire agency for all photos the chance of anyone being hired on full time as a staffer are not good, you need to know how it works. Also, don't forget to research going rates, what rights to give up for what amount, know all you can about editorial vs. commercial, etc.

2.8orfaster
23rd of September 2008 (Tue), 04:07
Put yourself in the organisers shoes and ask "how does giving rcpilot a press photo pass benefit me?" When you can come up with a number of reasons how then you will get your pass.

Very well put. This is how I try to think.

fortisi876
23rd of September 2008 (Tue), 09:44
First of all, THANK YOU, for all the replies. I apologize if I came off rude I was just making light of neils reply, which I wasnt sure if it was a sarcastic one or not.


Also, don't forget to research going rates, what rights to give up for what amount, know all you can about editorial vs. commercial, etc. Researching is what Im trying to do but other than places like this one where do you recommend searching?

neil_r
23rd of September 2008 (Tue), 14:15
First of all, THANK YOU, for all the replies. I apologize if I came off rude I was just making light of neils reply, which I wasnt sure if it was a sarcastic one or not.

No I wasn't being sarcastic, I was being supportive, honest...

MJPhotos24
23rd of September 2008 (Tue), 15:04
Researching is what Im trying to do but other than places like this one where do you recommend searching?

Well, for stuff like local shoots for example you can check the competitions sites or try to get there order forms. Shooting T&I for example I grabbed about 5-6 different companies price sheets and compared on quality, price, quickness, etc. Then chose my princes based on that which wasn't the cheapest but not the most expensive either. FotoQuote will give you editorial prices but they tend to go on the higher level and the actual papers don't (well the good ones do but besides the point). Local rag here for example only pays $15/image to a stringer, NYC paper may pay $150.

Day fees, again check out what the local competition is. It can range from $50-$1500 depending on what you give up. Obviously the lower end you're keeping the rights I would hope.

As for stuff not related to price, troll over at sportsshooter, here, other forums to pick up info - websites of well known photographers is always good to search around, shooting an event talk without being annoying to other photogs (honestly hardly ever talk as the game/event is going on, its usually before and after). There's info EVERYWHERE - good and bad, you just pick what's best to fit what you want to do.

fortisi876
23rd of September 2008 (Tue), 22:15
Thnx Mike.

EnronRocks
24th of September 2008 (Wed), 10:26
What if I start a business where papers can purchase rights to my photos. I wouldn't be press but I sell my imagery to the media as a legit company. Do you think that would work as a means to getting a 'press' pass?

It really is not too difficult to get around rules, especially press pass ones. In most cases you could "donate" time to a local newspaper and or magazine to gain a state press pass. In Illinois, if you have a press pass through the Illinois Press Association, all you do is fax the event planners a copy of it and they get you in.

On that note, the only time I have ever been asked for credentials was when I was photography a family friends son at a baseball tournament in Southern Illinois.

I have been to St Louis Cardinals, St Louis Rams, St Louis Blues, Southern Illinois Minors and even the St Judes Memphis Marathon. They never had a problem with giving me press passes, most were a 24 hour pass. I sent them emails and talked to them on the phone, and they had passes for me at the door.

It really depends on the event and the people running the events.

solvent
30th of March 2009 (Mon), 19:55
Question...

Say there is an event I'd like to get a press pass for.

Should I contact local magazines/newspapers and sell my idea?

Ideally I'd like to make some money AND get a press pass for the event.

solvent
31st of March 2009 (Tue), 13:54
bump

fortisi876
31st of March 2009 (Tue), 22:13
Might find some answers here when I asked similiar questions> http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=564441

philwillmedia
1st of April 2009 (Wed), 04:45
A quick few words about my background.
I started my motorsport photography over 20 years ago when I stopped competing in rallies.
The biggest problem I and fellow competitors had back then was getting pics of ourselves.
When I finally parked the rally car, I still wanted to be involved. I picked up the camera and started taken pics from spectator areas and selling them to competitors.
After a while I started submitting to a couple of motorsport magazines. It took a while but eventually, after about 3 years, I started getting some images published and then it snowballed from there.
Today, I cover all types of motorsport and supply several magazines and agencies with images. I have also cover a number of different sports and events.


Firstly, what is your reason for wanting media credentials.
Are you a member of the media?
What can you give the organizers by your presence?
Media creds are usually only given to WORKING media. This means people working for and supplying bona fide media outlets ie: Magazines and newspapers and other recognised media outlets such as websites and press agencies.
I’ve been shooting sport, mainly motorsport for over 20 years, and still do club level and grass roots sports.
I supply several magazines and newspapers as well as photo agencies.
I often get asked…
”How do I get a pass to shoot from where you are?”
My reply usually goes something like this…
“How long have you been photographing (insert name of sport) and what outlet do you work for?
To which they reply something like…”Oh I never do. I just want to get in and shoot from where you are. I’m just taking photos for myself”
Ask yourself this…
If you’ve never taken a photograph of an American Football (substitute for any sport) game, would you approach the NFL (again substitute relevant organization) and say to them “Hey Mr NFL Media Man, I’ve never taken a photo of a grid iron game before but I think I’m a pretty good photographer, I’m not shooting for anyone except myself so you won’t get any publicity but can I have a media pass for the Superbowl…"
Seriously, what do you think they would say.
It would probably be cool to be there and you’d get off on it and brag to your friends, but seriously…
Unless you are working media, why should you be there.
Admittedly, sometimes I have seen some people with creds who probably shouldn't have them - and people who probably should have them who don't - however it's not for me to make that decision.
I do sympathise with people who wish they could get creds for events and can't.
Event organizers are after publicity. You shooting for yourself does not give them that publicity and they do not have an obligation to give you a media pass just because you think you should have one. It is up to you to justify why you should be accredited.
Remember that the 'togs you see shooting at a track or sporting event etc are being paid by somebody therefore IT IS A JOB. They are not there for the fun of it.
Imagine if somebody came into your work place and thought it looks like cool job, do you think they'd just be able to start doing what you were for the fun of it?
Also, there is a whoooole lot more to it than just standing by the track and taking photo's. There are deadlines (sometimes very short) to meet and as a rule I would suggest that for the same amount of time spent trackside there is at least 1/2 to 3/4 of that time to be spent on editing, sending images etc when the day at the track has finished. If you spend 8 hours at the track, then you will usually spend another four to six hours, at least, once you have left the track on editing etc.
I attend a lot of events where I don't have creds so I do know what it's like from behind the fence or in the bleachers, but I still manage to get good and sometimes great images.
It makes you see things differently and find different angles and ways of shooting.
I'd estimate that about 50% of events I go to, I don't have the magic press pass and pay to get in like everyone else.
Sometimes I'm just there for being there, and sometimes it might be a sport I've never shot before but want to see what it's like. Occasionally I do manage to sell some images.
Also, just because you have good gear doesn't mean you should be there either.
I've seen some 'togs with basic DSLR's and kit lenses take some better stuff than guys with 1D's and white lenses (and Nikon equivalent). I occasionally use a 400D with the 10-22 lens and have those images published - last week was an example.
In closing, I will say this...
If you want to have creds for big events, start shooting the grass roots of that sport (no it's not glamorous like the big events - but you'll probably make more money) and start supplying images to publications etc.
This is a great way to get yourself known to event organisers. They learn to know who you are and that you are committed to photographing their sport and being known is half the battle. This is not going to take 5 minutes and may take several years, yes... I did say years.
To do this you need to have passion for both the sport and your photography.
You must be prepared to put up with the elements, rain, hail, shine, and depending on the hemisphere, maybe snow (not generally an issue in Australia) etc etc.
Just like any job, sometimes it will NOT be fun and just plain hard work.
It just depends on how hard you are prepared to work to get there.

Except when learning to swim, always start at the bottom.
I see too many people trying to start right at the top. it doesn't work that way.

Apologies if this appears straight to the point, but it is fact.

End of rant.

Sharpstat
10th of April 2009 (Fri), 23:11
So somewhere in that rather long rant did I pick out the fact that eventually someone gave you a break? :rolleyes:

The people that are good at what they do seem to make it look easy at times. I agree keep practicing that's what I'm doing. I've seen photographers nail excellent shots at the MotoGP races at Laguna Seca from behind the fence without any pass whatsoever. Laguna is an exception to the rule due to many open areas to shoot around the track.

philwillmedia
11th of April 2009 (Sat), 05:02
Sharpstat,
It's not a case of someone giving me or anyone else a break.
It's about the person in question, no matter who it is, being prepared to do some hard yards and sometimes those yards are very very hard indeed.
I too have seen some brilliant results from people who have taken shots from behind the fence and with no pass, (Bathurst is a good example) but what do they do with them...nothing.
Have a look at some of the stuff on places like flickr, redbubble and smugmug to name just three and see what some people are producing - amazing.
On that point, there is nothing stopping anyone from submitting an image to a publication for possible use, however there is no guarantee it will get used.
The other thing is, if you have a really great pic of a crash for example, it's no good to anyone in three weeks time when you get around to downloading your card and looking at your photos. It is no longer relevant in three weeks time.
This happens. I have had people email me pics and asking me ..."would xyz magazine be interested in this shot..."
In some cases they WOULD have been - three weeks ago.
When I've asked them why the didn't send it sooner usually I get a response like "well I just didn't download my card until yesterday (or last week or something similar) and thought I'd ask you first" etc etc.
My intention was to give an honest and detailed answer to a question that was asked on this forum and that I get asked quite frequently.
There is no point or value in sugar coating it and talking it up to be easier than it is nor is their any value to the OP or anyone else in simply putting something lame like "work hard"
Just because you can take a good photo doesn't mean you should have a pass.
That is all I was trying to convey.

Sharpstat
11th of April 2009 (Sat), 11:37
Sharpstat,
It's not a case of someone giving me or anyone else a break.
It's about the person in question, no matter who it is, being prepared to do some hard yards and sometimes those yards are very very hard indeed.
I too have seen some brilliant results from people who have taken shots from behind the fence and with no pass, (Bathurst is a good example) but what do they do with them...nothing.
Have a look at some of the stuff on places like flickr, redbubble and smugmug to name just three and see what some people are producing - amazing.
On that point, there is nothing stopping anyone from submitting an image to a publication for possible use, however there is no guarantee it will get used.
The other thing is, if you have a really great pic of a crash for example, it's no good to anyone in three weeks time when you get around to downloading your card and looking at your photos. It is no longer relevant in three weeks time.
This happens. I have had people email me pics and asking me ..."would xyz magazine be interested in this shot..."
In some cases they WOULD have been - three weeks ago.
When I've asked them why the didn't send it sooner usually I get a response like "well I just didn't download my card until yesterday (or last week or something similar) and thought I'd ask you first" etc etc.
My intention was to give an honest and detailed answer to a question that was asked on this forum and that I get asked quite frequently.
There is no point or value in sugar coating it and talking it up to be easier than it is nor is their any value to the OP or anyone else in simply putting something lame like "work hard"
Just because you can take a good photo doesn't mean you should have a pass.
That is all I was trying to convey.


You got your message across. I wasn't trying to have a go at you. I agree I'm seeing the same thing happen in my given profession.

Cheers

Big Pete
19th of April 2009 (Sun), 17:38
philwillmedia.... Absolutley on the button!

My version is a lot shorter..

If you want it, you need to work hard for it!

If you sit back and wait for it to happen... Forget it, it ain't going to happen!

WRCfan
27th of April 2009 (Mon), 01:48
I started out by taking photos and emailing magazines and media outlets who might have wanted photos. Sent them photos a few time for no money, just media accred and once they were happy that my pictures were of the quality they liked then they started paying me. Started with car shows and have now been taken onboard by the magazine as staff to do monthly articles with accompanying photos. They are based in NZ and I am in Japan. They sponsor any media accred I need for motorsport here in Japan so it:s a great chance to have my photos seen and also great fun going to the events.

Being pro-active was a big factor in my particular case, and I was more than happy to do some free pics in exchange for them sponsoring my media accred which allowed them a no-risk trial with me.

rovers_Andy
8th of May 2009 (Fri), 11:33
Phil, superb answers. you make some very valid points. Ive just completed my first year shooting sports and am only just starting to build a relationship with the media guys at the different clubs

DC Fan
8th of May 2009 (Fri), 12:51
For those who want a press pass: the real-world pressure for photographers on assignment to produce images quickly has gotten more intense.

Once, it was considered quick work when, once a sporting event was over, you copied images to a notebook PC, culled a group of good images, and then uploaded them to a photo desk using a wireless link. Now that's too slow. It's even too slow to do that during an event using a portable computer.

The new state of the art, likely to become a routine necessity, is to upload a picture to a photo desk from the camera, using a device that's pre-set with a WiFi link that is programmed to send files directly to a publication's image server.

Already, it's common for the largest publication to wire a stadium with its own mobile network, to send images straight from a camera into a network editing suite underneath the grandstands, so photo editors can decide which images to use immediately after they're taken. (http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/2212)

No relaxed time to sort through images. No taking a few days to edit your favorites. The deadlines are getting tighter, and the need to get things right in the camera is more important than ever.

FlyingPhotog
8th of May 2009 (Fri), 12:54
With apologies to the regular sports guys/gals, this article from SS is one of the best I've ever read on this particular subject:

http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/2210

Warning to Wanna Be's: You won't like what this says but it's the God's Truth...