Why, oh why, oh why?

[Cadwell]

OK... there's this racing series... all the cars are the same. They're a space-frame chassis with mid-mounted 130bhp engine, five speed gearbox and racing brakes. They have lightweight fibre-glass body shell. The series is sponsored by tyre manufacturer "Uniroyal" and they run endurance races - 3 or more hours - sometimes as long as 25 hours. It's supposed to be a "cheap" form of motorsport.

So here is the question. Given these cars could have any body shape they want... Why do they all look like Volkswagen Beetles on steroids :?

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/valaraukar/beetle.jpg
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/valaraukar/beetle2.jpg

Answers on a postcard please...

[vvizard]

Probably because the VW beetle has proven to be one heck of a perfect racing-body. Just look at the similiarities with the Porsche-911. Compact body, balanced real well by how far out to the sides the wheels are placed. Another reason I guess, is that a Porsche-engine fit real well into theese chassis.

Except from that, I have no clue :shock:

[neil_r]

Passed one of these on a trailer on the M1 <edit.. it might have been the M6> this week, I must confess I slowed down and thought WTF!

N

[Cadwell]

Probably because the VW beetle has proven to be one heck of a perfect racing-body. Just look at the similiarities with the Porsche-911. Compact body, balanced real well by how far out to the sides the wheels are placed. Another reason I guess, is that a Porsche-engine fit real well into theese chassis.

Except from that, I have no clue :shock:

The funny thing is the Porsche 911 should be a terrible race car. The engine is in entirely the wrong place. Having all that weight hanging out behind the rear axle causes a real nasty pendulum effect when the back steps out. Lots of people have come to grief in 911s when they were caught unawares by this handling “characteristic”. The ‘80s 911 Turbos were particularly prone to ending up in hedgerows backwards. The modern 911s are much better but Porsche is still turning back flips in suspension design to neutralise the problem.

The great racing successes of Porsche 911s over the years have been achieved in spite of the car’s inherent handling, not because of it.

Anyway, in this case form does not follow function. The body shape of the Uniroyal cars bears no relation to the mechanics underneath. A central seat, mid-engine layout on a space frame chassis has no relation to a Beetle or a 911… more like a Cooper F1.

[vvizard]

We learn something new every day in here :)

And BTW: I really like the first of those shots there. Forgot to mention that in the last post.

[Bruce Hamilton]

Why do they all look like Volkswagen Beetles on steroids :?

Why are they using the classic beetle? The new ones are ugly, race them. ;)

[Wickedfn4u]

Because the brick is the most aerodynamic form?

[Cadwell]

Why are they using the classic beetle? The new ones are ugly, race them. ;)

LOL Don't get me started on modern Volkswagen designs. I was walking to the local sandwich shop with a colleague this week. When he pointed to a parked car and asked me "What car is that? Is it one of those Nissans?".

It was actually a new "Bentley" Continental GT. Thanks very much Volkswagen, you've managed to make what should be a unique piece of bespoke motoring heritage look like economy mass transport :evil:

[CoolToolGuy]

Probably because the VW beetle has proven to be one heck of a perfect racing-body. Just look at the similiarities with the Porsche-911. Compact body, balanced real well by how far out to the sides the wheels are placed. Another reason I guess, is that a Porsche-engine fit real well into theese chassis.

Except from that, I have no clue :shock:

The funny thing is the Porsche 911 should be a terrible race car. The engine is in entirely the wrong place. Having all that weight hanging out behind the rear axle causes a real nasty pendulum effect when the back steps out. Lots of people have come to grief in 911s when they were caught unawares by this handling “characteristic”. The ‘80s 911 Turbos were particularly prone to ending up in hedgerows backwards. The modern 911s are much better but Porsche is still turning back flips in suspension design to neutralise the problem.

The great racing successes of Porsche 911s over the years have been achieved in spite of the car’s inherent handling, not because of it.

Anyway, in this case form does not follow function. The body shape of the Uniroyal cars bears no relation to the mechanics underneath. A central seat, mid-engine layout on a space frame chassis has no relation to a Beetle or a 911… more like a Cooper F1.

vvizard, I hate to ruin your impression, but the original VW Beetle is terrible aerodynamically. The Cx (airflow) numbers for the Beetle are worse than those for the original VW Bus, primarily because of that flat, almost vertical windshield rising from the front hood. Just as the air is being routed up over the front hood it hits, for all intents and purposes, an air brake. So its not for good aerodynamics that they use the shape.

The 911 used some styling cues from the Beetle, but it is much better aerodynamically. The early ones had that wicked oversteer, but if a driver could master it the car could (obviously) perform very well. One of the biggest hurdles was the fact that, other than the Beetle, most cars were not configured with a rear engine, and the handling was VERY different from the understeer that was native in most cars of the time. And although the configuration was very similar to the 356, the increase in horsepower from the 6 cylinder engine of the 911 made it much easier to 'swap ends'.

Cadwell, this is the first I've seen of this racing series, but I have two thoughts on why they used the Beetle shape:
-It is very recognizable, and usually elicits a positive response with fun memories. So the spectators will probably enjoy seeing them.
-Although the market may have dried up a little, body parts and the tooling to create them are plentiful. If they were not obtained from VW, there have been several aftermarket suppliers of body parts for the Beetle.

Just curious if the series is somehow sponsored by VW, and whether you know the origin of the drivetrain.

[Costa]

Very intersting. Don't be showing this to Bernie Ecclestone, because in his current mindframe, all F1 could be driving them next year...

Cheers,

Costa

[CoolToolGuy]

Very intersting. Don't be showing this to Bernie Ecclestone, because in his current mindframe, all F1 could be driving them next year...

Cheers,

Costa

You may be onto something - since Bernie has a good level of disdain for the USA, perhaps that is why we don't have them on this side of the pond... :roll:

Bernie is a jerk.

[Cadwell]

Just curious if the series is somehow sponsored by VW, and whether you know the origin of the drivetrain.

No VW sponsorship as such. The gearbox is a five speed VW unit and although I can't find information on the engine manufacturer I'd be willing to bet that it is also VW. I do know that it's an 1800cc water cooled four cylinder.

I do know that no Beetle parts whatsoever are used in the construction of these cars...

[CoolToolGuy]

Just curious if the series is somehow sponsored by VW, and whether you know the origin of the drivetrain.

No VW sponsorship as such. The gearbox is a five speed VW unit and although I can't find information on the engine manufacturer I'd be willing to bet that it is also VW. I do know that it's an 1800cc water cooled four cylinder.

I do know that no Beetle parts whatsoever are used in the construction of these cars...

I'm thinking that it may be all VW, regardless of whether the parts are period-correct. And potentially, VW could have blessed it for the nostalgia and marketing value.

My first 25 years of driving were all powered by air-cooled engines. Now there are no cars being made with them (unless I missed an obscure Citroen or so). A joke developed - 'When I grew up, if your Volkswagen engine had water in it, it was broken.'

You guys are really keeping me up on interesting race series in your neck of the woods. You show us this revived Beetle shape, and Kenny G. has had some shots of motorcycle-powered Sports Racers and retro-sedans. Very cool - maybe one day I'll see some of this over here. Thanks!

[Cadwell]

I'm thinking that it may be all VW, regardless of whether the parts are period-correct. And potentially, VW could have blessed it for the nostalgia and marketing value.

My first 25 years of driving were all powered by air-cooled engines. Now there are no cars being made with them (unless I missed an obscure Citroen or so). A joke developed - 'When I grew up, if your Volkswagen engine had water in it, it was broken.'

You guys are really keeping me up on interesting race series in your neck of the woods. You show us this revived Beetle shape, and Kenny G. has had some shots of motorcycle-powered Sports Racers and retro-sedans. Very cool - maybe one day I'll see some of this over here. Thanks!

Watch this space... in a couple of weeks I'll post some shots of the British Truck Racing Association event from Thruxton. Now that is scary ;)