Advice needed. RL published Help

[kt8]

Hi all, May I pick your brains please.

After the match yesterday I got in touch with a national trade paper and offered my image (of a debut boy) for use on the basis I receive a credit. This was agreed so the image was sent. In todays publication, the image is used but not a name check anywhere. What do I do now?

I know it may seem petty but my thoughts are its either money or name check, Seeing as the didnt pay I insisted on the name check.

Any help?

[gmen]

Hi all, May I pick your brains please.

After the match yesterday I got in touch with a national trade paper and offered my image (of a debut boy) for use on the basis I receive a credit. This was agreed so the image was sent. In todays publication, the image is used but not a name check anywhere. What do I do now?

I know it may seem petty but my thoughts are its either money or name check, Seeing as the didnt pay I insisted on the name check.

Any help?I'd suggest that the options that were open to you yesterday were:

(a) Receive money for the use of the image
(b) err... there is no (b)

There's no obligation on a publication giving you a credit... and now that they haven't, then there's really nothing that will make up for that. On very rare occasions a publication may print a retrospective credit (in very, very small print tucked away at the bottom of a page towards the back) but this would be unusual.

Also, the only folk that tend to look at the credits by images are other photographers :lol: so, realistically, a credit doesn't even constitute free advertising.

My advice, for what it's worth, is to always insist on payment for your images. If you can't get paid, then thank them for their time and walk away. If this is a national publication, then they should have a standard space rate card they work from for published images. Generally an on-spec, stock contribution isn't going to make you a mint, but it'll fetch a few quid nonetheless.

Good luck next time. Put it down to experience and try to build relationships with other publications.

---- Gavin

[ozzie289]

Dont give pictures away, at least not for publication. Simple as.
What, you think the paper gives away advertising space to companies as a freebie?
You think they employ journalists, office staff without pay?
So why supply free images?
Tough lesson, but most snappers wont have any sympathy for you.
You have zero chance of getting a retrospective credit. And how would that work anyway?
for them to re-publish the image this time with a credit? Yeah... of course they will!!!!!

[primoz]

And I'm gonna charge Gavin for using my words :p
Otherwise I have nothing else to say then Gavin did. Get paid and missing byline won't matter ;)

[gmen]

And I'm gonna charge Gavin for using my words :p :lol: Is a microstock royalty free licence ok? ;)

---- Gavin

[primoz]

Hehehe that would be what? 0.05eur? For letter, word or whole thing? :mrgreen:

[gmen]

Hehehe that would be what? 0.05eur? For letter, word or whole thing? :mrgreen:Wasn't thinking as much as that... don't have the budget mate!

---- Gavin

[primoz]

Ok ok let's agree for byline. And please don't forget to put it there :lol:

[gmen]

Ok ok let's agree for byline. And please don't forget to put it there :lol:Count on me guv! Pleasure doing business with you.

---- Gavin

[Tall_Paul_2000]

Hi all, May I pick your brains please.

After the match yesterday I got in touch with a national trade paper and offered my image (of a debut boy) for use on the basis I receive a credit. This was agreed so the image was sent. In todays publication, the image is used but not a name check anywhere. What do I do now?

I know it may seem petty but my thoughts are its either money or name check, Seeing as the didnt pay I insisted on the name check.

Any help?

I'd suggest that the options that were open to you yesterday were:

(a) Receive money for the use of the image
(b) err... there is no (b)

There's no obligation on a publication giving you a credit... and now that they haven't, then there's really nothing that will make up for that. On very rare occasions a publication may print a retrospective credit (in very, very small print tucked away at the bottom of a page towards the back) but this would be unusual.

Also, the only folk that tend to look at the credits by images are other photographers :lol: so, realistically, a credit doesn't even constitute free advertising.

My advice, for what it's worth, is to always insist on payment for your images. If you can't get paid, then thank them for their time and walk away. If this is a national publication, then they should have a standard space rate card they work from for published images. Generally an on-spec, stock contribution isn't going to make you a mint, but it'll fetch a few quid nonetheless.

Good luck next time. Put it down to experience and try to build relationships with other publications.

---- Gavin

Ste,

Afraid I'm pretty much going to echo what Gavin said.....giving pics away for free is not good business practice in the slightest.............not only will you now find it hard to start getting the paper (I can guess which paper it might be) to actually pay you in the future for your images. No matter how good they are, you've set the precedent that your work is available for free.

From my point of view, whilst having a picture credit is nice, i'm far happier with the money that the papers pay for the pictures they use!

Anyway, one to learn from now - not a great deal that you can do about it now!

Paul

[Boggy]

Playing devils whats its name,

What would happern now if you invoiced them for the picture stating that your agreement was for a byline and as they didn't carry out there side of the arrangement you feel that some recompense (is that a word?) is due on your half?
It might help for next time if the publication wants to use your images and offers a credit you can then turn them down say that "they" messed that up last time and now you will only sell to them.

Just a thought

Shaun

[Tall_Paul_2000]

I guess they either wouldn't pay, or they would claim an oversight and print a retrospective credit - which is no use nor ornament really!

Or alternatively, they just won't use your work again in the future on either basis.

Ste........Just out of interest - have you checked whether the publication does actually picture credit? Of the two RL papers I know of, 1 seems not to credit pictures at all.

[Boggy]

I guess they either wouldn't pay, or they would claim an oversight and print a retrospective credit - which is no use nor ornament really!

Or alternatively, they just won't use your work again in the future on either basis.


I know which one my "byline" would be on.............. ha ha ha

Shaun

[kt8]

I know now ive learnt the hard way and believe me, once bitten etc. They wont get nothing else from me. I only usually buy the express and they dont but said they would name check. Anyway, done now, Cheers for advice guys, See what there email response is tomorrow, Ive stated I will now be invoicing them, thing is, How much now for such a big distribution list, Only ever done local rag.

Arrrgggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh :evil:

[gazcoyle]

Dont give them away, each one you give away is potential earnings lost for those of us who currently get paid.

Which local rag have you supplied before

[kt8]

Widnes, Halifax, Sheffield, Rochdale and cumbrian one so far.

Spoke with publication regarding main issue, they are to be invoiced. I didnt want sympathy (whoever said that earlier). thanks for useful advice guys, it is a lesson learnt believe me. ta

[Aleksandar]

Dont give pictures away, at least not for publication. Simple as.
What, you think the paper gives away advertising space to companies as a freebie?
You think they employ journalists, office staff without pay?
So why supply free images?
Tough lesson, but most snappers wont have any sympathy for you.
You have zero chance of getting a retrospective credit. And how would that work anyway?
for them to re-publish the image this time with a credit? Yeah... of course they will!!!!!

Just curious, does this also apply to hobbyists? I'm looking to get into sports photography for fun so I contacted my city's not-for-profit athletic association which handles all the 14-and-under sports. I offered to make any pictures I took available to them, the players and their parents in exchange for permission to photograph them. This is because I'm mainly interested in building up a portfolio and eventually move on to photograph high school or higher games. Also, this is my first attempt at anything beyond point-and-click photography so I don't expect any of my photos to be that good at first. At any length, they replied that they were interested in the offer and wish to have a meeting with me to discuss things in more detail.

Honestly, seeing as how I only intend this to be a hobby I'm more than happy to give the parents and players momentos of their performances at no cost (I figure I can upload the pictures to a free image-sharing website and hand out the url when asked). Is this a bad idea?

[gazcoyle]

Widnes, Halifax, Sheffield, Rochdale and cumbrian one so far.

Spoke with publication regarding main issue, they are to be invoiced. I didnt want sympathy (whoever said that earlier). thanks for useful advice guys, it is a lesson learnt believe me. ta
Widnes, Halifax, Rochdale and the News and Star in Cumbria all have local newspapers that i have supplied photos to on a paid basis for 3 years now, the Halifax Courier, Widnes World and the Rochdale Observer pay pretty decent money taking into account that they are a second income stream from a game im basically covering for another publication, so your giving them away could potentially jeapordise my future earnings which at the present time are limited anyway.

If youre going to give them away then i would suggest that you only give away to a local rag where you live and don't step onto someone elses patch so to speak.

Newspapers all have a photo budget, however if they can get it for nothing they will do so.

[kt8]

Gary your getting me wrong and feel your quite narked with me, Ive supplied to the locals for payment, I supplied 1 image to the trade paper ONCE and this is the occassion im on about, Having now resolved the issue I am to be paid for that too, Dont think Im stepping onto your patch and giving away freebies, Im not

[bigjon0107]

Just curious, does this also apply to hobbyists? I'm looking to get into sports photography for fun so I contacted my city's not-for-profit athletic association which handles all the 14-and-under sports. I offered to make any pictures I took available to them, the players and their parents in exchange for permission to photograph them. This is because I'm mainly interested in building up a portfolio and eventually move on to photograph high school or higher games. Also, this is my first attempt at anything beyond point-and-click photography so I don't expect any of my photos to be that good at first. At any length, they replied that they were interested in the offer and wish to have a meeting with me to discuss things in more detail.

Honestly, seeing as how I only intend this to be a hobby I'm more than happy to give the parents and players momentos of their performances at no cost (I figure I can upload the pictures to a free image-sharing website and hand out the url when asked). Is this a bad idea?

In short, for most cases, i would say "yes" to the opening question. If at any time you even think about working for money, everyone will expect it for free, the league, the parents, and anyone else who was involved. If you are looking to get shooting permission, just propose it to the association and ask them if you can have access. No need to give away images if they dont require it.

And as for setting up an image hosting sight for download, i would have to disagree with that one as well. If you want, set up a sight though many of the online image hosting sights that will sell and print your images for you (backprint.com, smugmug.com, etc...) and just prince the prints. Parents WILL by them (well at least in my area). For a U14 game i just recently shot, i have brought $200 in sales and the number keeps growing. So instead of handing them out for free, just hand out a business card with the URL to your website and try to sell them. But if you offer them for free, you are not only hurting yourself (I mean, a little extra cash could mean that new 70-200L or another "needed" lens) but you are also hurting the pro's in your area. If they propose to the league an offer, or even to the parents to shoot their kids, the potential clients are going to expect them for free, because that is the standard that has been set...and free does not pay the rent.


With that said though, dont rush into selling the, get some practice for a little while, then when you start seeing some decent results, start to post them and hand out cards.

But if you already offered free images, well, you have to be a man of your word. If you can work it out to where you only have to provide the league with the images that would be better for you and the parties involved in the long run.

-Jon