70-200mm, Circ. Pol, Airshow

[drisley]

I am all excited to shoot my first airshow next month with my 70-200mm F4L (and Rebel).
The sun (if it's a sunny day) is situated directly behind us, with the airshow being directly in front (of course).
Will a circular polarizer make any diff in a situation like that?
Also, should the "axis" of the circular polarizer (usually marked with the white strip) be pointed vertically (either up or down).

I have to get a new cir. pol. to fit my 70-200mm F4L, any recommendations (but affordable). Also, how do you rotate the circ. pol with the lens hood attached?

Many questions! :wink:
Thanks in advance.

PS, I've used a circ polarizer before, but with my old G3, not with a lens of this nature yet.

[robertwgross]

First of all, with the sun at your back, a circular polarizer isn't going to do too much that is positive for you, and you will have lost some light to boot. It will work most if you are 90 degrees off from the sun direction.

Second, why do you want to use a lens hood? If you were pointed anywhere toward the sun, then I could understand. But if the sun is at your back, it won't be doing much for you, and it just gets in the way.

---Bob Gross---

[drisley]

Good points!

Yes, I thought that the polarizer mainly helped if 90 degrees, but just wanted to check. I figured it might help with reflections/glare off the planes themselves. And if I am often shooting pointing the camera near vertical for some shots, maybe it might help there.

As far as the lens hood goes, I just got in the habit of using it at all times.
Couldn't hurt, and since I dont use a full time uv filter, it helps protect the lens.

[Olegis]

Just to add about the hood - I use hoods on all my lenses (even on the cheap 50mm f/1.8 ) all the time, just for extra protection. I've been in situatons when the lens bumped against some stiff surfaces - rock, tree, wall and such, and the hood always saved the day.

[kahfluie]

Unisng a lens hood won;t hurt anyuthing, and doesn't get in the way. I agree with Olegis - it can also be a form of protection for the lens. I use it.

[robertwgross]

Unisng a lens hood won;t hurt anyuthing, and doesn't get in the way.

Then explain how you are going to turn the polarizer with the hood in place.

---Bob Gross---

[kahfluie]

Unisng a lens hood won;t hurt anyuthing, and doesn't get in the way.

Then explain how you are going to turn the polarizer with the hood in place.

---Bob Gross---

Well, I see your point - I rarely use filters... I guess when I use the polarizer I don't have the hood on... so.. point noted.

[merlyn9]

Unisng a lens hood won;t hurt anyuthing, and doesn't get in the way.

Then explain how you are going to turn the polarizer with the hood in place.

---Bob Gross---

Big long fingers!

[slin100]

Notwithstanding the already mentioned issue of turning the polarizer with the hood on, having the sun at your back is the ideal location. The sky in front of you will be affected the most by a polarizer.

[where1]

When using a CPL, I use a screw on lens hood. It helps with adjusting the filter, gives you something to grab onto. But beware on wide angle lenses, you don't get a hood that shows up in the shot.

[KBMphotography.com]

Aviation Photo Tips....!

1. Practice good panning
2. If doing landing shots, wait until they are over the "Piano Keys" at the end of the runway. These are the white bars near the runway end and they help light up the underside of the subject. (see my airliners.net link for some examples in there (somewhere!)
3. Play with slow and fast speeds for different (motion) effects when they are landing/taking off.

Oh and wear lots of sunscreen!!!!

[scottbergerphoto]

Notwithstanding the already mentioned issue of turning the polarizer with the hood on, having the sun at your back is the ideal location. The sky in front of you will be affected the most by a polarizer.
No. Polarizers work best at 90 degress to the sun. If the sun is at your shoulder, your in the right position for a polarizer. If you are facing directly away from the sun, the polarizer is pretty useless unless your taking a picture of a reflective surface. A simple trick is to make your thumb and index finger into a gun. Point your index finger at the sun. Rotate your thumb and those are the directions the polarizer will work best in.
Scott

[slin100]

[
No. Polarizers work best at 90 degress to the sun. If the sun is at your shoulder, your in the right position for a polarizer. If you are facing directly away from the sun, the polarizer is pretty useless unless your taking a picture of a reflective surface. A simple trick is to make your thumb and index finger into a gun. Point your index finger at the sun. Rotate your thumb and those are the directions the polarizer will work best in.
Scott

Yes, I know about that rule of thumb (pun intended). The OP said the sun would be behind him, not at the shoulder, unless you consider that to be the same. With the sun behind, the 90 degree rule suggests that there's a chance that the sky in front will be affected by the polarizer.

I guess at this point, it's impossible to tell if the polarizer will be effective without knowing the exact location of the sun (e.g. high/low in the sky). If the sun is behind you and 45 degrees up from the horizon, then the sky in front of you at 45 degrees will be affected the most. That would seem to me to be a good enough case to use a polarizer.

[scottbergerphoto]

[
No. Polarizers work best at 90 degress to the sun. If the sun is at your shoulder, your in the right position for a polarizer. If you are facing directly away from the sun, the polarizer is pretty useless unless your taking a picture of a reflective surface. A simple trick is to make your thumb and index finger into a gun. Point your index finger at the sun. Rotate your thumb and those are the directions the polarizer will work best in.
Scott

Yes, I know about that rule of thumb (pun intended). The OP said the sun would be behind him, not at the shoulder, unless you consider that to be the same. With the sun behind, the 90 degree rule suggests that there's a chance that the sky in front will be affected by the polarizer.

I guess at this point, it's impossible to tell if the polarizer will be effective without knowing the exact location of the sun (e.g. high/low in the sky). If the sun is behind you and 45 degrees up from the horizon, then the sky in front of you at 45 degrees will be affected the most. That would seem to me to be a good enough case to use a polarizer.
Slin,
If the sun is behind you, the sky in front of you is 180 degrees from the sun.
Scott

[dtrayers]

Here's a great link discussing polarizers. It discusses how to use one if you don't have an SLR and can see through the lens to adjust the polarizer, but it's still an informative read and useful to any type of camera.

http://dpfwiw.com/polarizer.htm

[slin100]

Slin,
If the sun is behind you, the sky in front of you is 180 degrees from the sun.
Scott
That's not correct. The pitch angle between the horizon in front of you and the horizon behind you is at most 180 degrees, neglecting the curvature of the earth for a moment. So, unless the sun is sitting right at the horizon, the sky in front of you is going to be much less than 180 degrees from the sun.

[kfong]

[
No. Polarizers work best at 90 degress to the sun. If the sun is at your shoulder, your in the right position for a polarizer. If you are facing directly away from the sun, the polarizer is pretty useless unless your taking a picture of a reflective surface. A simple trick is to make your thumb and index finger into a gun. Point your index finger at the sun. Rotate your thumb and those are the directions the polarizer will work best in.
Scott

Yes, I know about that rule of thumb (pun intended). The OP said the sun would be behind him, not at the shoulder, unless you consider that to be the same. With the sun behind, the 90 degree rule suggests that there's a chance that the sky in front will be affected by the polarizer.

I guess at this point, it's impossible to tell if the polarizer will be effective without knowing the exact location of the sun (e.g. high/low in the sky). If the sun is behind you and 45 degrees up from the horizon, then the sky in front of you at 45 degrees will be affected the most. That would seem to me to be a good enough case to use a polarizer.
Slin,
If the sun is behind you, the sky in front of you is 180 degrees from the sun.
Scott

Scott, I think Slin is thinking in terms of 3D. If the sun is directly overhead, then any direction you look will be 90 degrees off.
But when the sun is at your back say at 45 degree, you will also receive a lot of back scattered unpolarized light from the atmosphere which tends to swamp out the side scattered polarized light.

Ken

[Chrisc]

Why worry about Polorizers on your first air show with this new combination of camera and lens? You'll be too busy framing your shots to worry about a filter, or if you do use it, probably cursing at all the missed shots.

Is 200MM going to be long enough? I reguarly shoot at shows and use a 100-400, mostly at the 400mm end....

http://www.warplane.co.uk/redflag/Warplane_-_Red_Flag_August_2003_62.jpg

http://www.warplane.co.uk/redflag/Warplane_-_Red_Flag_August_2003_69.jpg

http://www.warplane.co.uk/redflag/Warplane_-_Red_Flag_August_2003_55.jpg

[dtrayers]

Fantastic, Chris!

Makes me want to sell the 17-40 I just got and get a 100-400!

[drisley]

Since it will be middle of June, and early afternoon, the sun will be behind, but VERY high in the sky. Almost overhead.
I think that a few people were right in saying that in that case the sky may in fact be affected by a polarizer.
But yes, framing is much more important.

Beautiful shot Chrisc!
I hope 200mm is long enough. I guess it will have to be. I've been to the shows before, and the planes are in fact quite close. Guess I will have to wait and see!

Thanks for all the replies people.

[mjordan]

These were taken with a D30 and 70-200 4.0L lens

http://www.sitnprettyphoto.com/airshow/f14_0673.jpg

http://www.sitnprettyphoto.com/airshow/f18_0927.jpg

http://www.sitnprettyphoto.com/airshow/f14_0649.jpg


This year I'll have my 10D and hopefully a 100-400 for the airshow. But if not, I'll have the 70-200 2.8L IS.

Mike

[drisley]

Nice! :o
Did you have to do alot of cropping for those pictures?

[Chrisc]

All are near as full frame, resized and slightly cropped to 800x600. They were all shot at the 400mm end.

Currently 100-400 is broken and waiting for its second trip to the repair shop in twelve months, airshow season just beginning here....Bugger.

[drisley]

Mjordan, were your pictures heavily cropped?

[Bruce Hamilton]

Looks like the military has changed their SOP's on air shows... Haven't been to many military air bases recently, but they never used to have jets with live weapons perform maneuvers at air shows.

[sp00g3]

Slin,
If the sun is behind you, the sky in front of you is 180 degrees from the sun.
Scott
That's not correct. The pitch angle between the horizon in front of you and the horizon behind you is at most 180 degrees, neglecting the curvature of the earth for a moment. So, unless the sun is sitting right at the horizon, the sky in front of you is going to be much less than 180 degrees from the sun.

Polarizer Trick 1: Point at the sun with your index finger and make an L with your thumb. Rotate your hand with your index finger pointing at the sun. Where the thumb points is where you will get the best Polarization.

[dtrayers]

but they never used to have jets with live weapons perform maneuvers at air shows.


Why do you say they're live? Looks like a blue stripe to me.

[mjordan]

Mjordan, were your pictures heavily cropped?

No, they were not heavily cropped. Looking at the originals, most I didn't have to crop a lot off of them. But I was right on the flight line so was about as close as they would let you get.

This one was cropped pretty good:
http://www.sitnprettyphoto.com/airshow/wing0759.jpg

Not to mention all of the smoke he was spewing out made it hard to get good pictures. After a few passes the air was pretty thick with smoke.


Mike