Which gear for sports? 400D or 30D, lens?

[stickx]

This is my first post. I did some searching in the forum, but didn't really find my answers.

I’ve used an SLR for the past 30 years up until about 8 years ago when I went digital point-n-shoot. I want to start taking sports photos which means getting a digital SLR. I will be shooting my kid’s volleyball indoors as well as soccer outdoors. These will be for personal enjoyment, nothing commercial. That said, I have a few questions. I’m looking at either the 400D or the 30D and based on your experiences, would like your help in determining which factors are really important to sports photography.

The shutter lag on the 400D is not quite as fast as the 30D per published reviews. Is this a noticeable difference? If so, the Nikon D80 seems even faster.
The 30D shoots continuous at 5 fps vs 3 fps for the 400D. It seems to me that continuous shooting (whether at 5 or 3 fps) will take luck to get the exact right action shot. I trust my eye and finger to capture the right shot as long as there is virtually no shutter lag. Or is this an important feature?
Will the 10.1 megapixel be noticeably better than the 8.2? Especially considering that I will likely have to crop.
30D iso of 3200 vs 1600 for 400D. Will this be a factor or is the noise too great at 3200 for family use?Looking at the 70-200 f/2.8L ($1,140) or the 70-200 f/4L ($560). Big difference in price. Is the 1 f stop really worth the extra cash? I don’t think I can afford the extra cash for the IS, but would consider it if you think it is necessary.

Thanks,
Bob

[Atl-Fotos]

My opinion is....

30D with a 2.8 lenes. The 3200 ISO and 2.8 works well for indoor sports (and if you are going to spend that much look at IS if you are not using a monopod). Just run it through something like Noise Ninja ($79) to get rid of all the noise. You will love the results.

Just my thoughts...

[jim9449]

Just got my 30D last week, first outing 300 f4 non IS and 1.4x kenko look here,
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=322755
I'm well pleased:lol: :lol:

[Atl-Fotos]

I think he is looking for indoor sports with out a flash...

[jim9449]

I think he is looking for indoor sports with out a flash...

Yea, but he did mention outdoor soccer

[Atl-Fotos]

Here are some samples

http://ronjonesphotos.smugmug.com/Sports/241580

[S.Horton]

This is my first post. I did some searching in the forum, but didn't really find my answers.

I’ve used an SLR for the past 30 years up until about 8 years ago when I went digital point-n-shoot. I want to start taking sports photos which means getting a digital SLR. I will be shooting my kid’s volleyball indoors as well as soccer outdoors. These will be for personal enjoyment, nothing commercial. That said, I have a few questions. I’m looking at either the 400D or the 30D and based on your experiences, would like your help in determining which factors are really important to sports photography.

The shutter lag on the 400D is not quite as fast as the 30D per published reviews. Is this a noticeable difference? If so, the Nikon D80 seems even faster.
The 30D shoots continuous at 5 fps vs 3 fps for the 400D. It seems to me that continuous shooting (whether at 5 or 3 fps) will take luck to get the exact right action shot. I trust my eye and finger to capture the right shot as long as there is virtually no shutter lag. Or is this an important feature?
Will the 10.1 megapixel be noticeably better than the 8.2? Especially considering that I will likely have to crop.
30D iso of 3200 vs 1600 for 400D. Will this be a factor or is the noise too great at 3200 for family use?Looking at the 70-200 f/2.8L ($1,140) or the 70-200 f/4L ($560). Big difference in price. Is the 1 f stop really worth the extra cash? I don’t think I can afford the extra cash for the IS, but would consider it if you think it is necessary.

Thanks,
Bob

1. If your instincts and timing honed over those years is solid, the lag I saw using an XTi wasn't a problem. XTi + battery grip feels solid in the hands as well. Timing on volleyball is paramount, as you know, soccer is less predictable.

2. 5 FPS is handy when, for example, you see a fight in front of the net in soccer that you realize might result in a good shot, but you only know when to start shooting. Then, lean on the motor drive, and the 30D is worth it vs. the XTi.

3. As a practical matter, no. Pixels just help you print larger at a given PPI.

4. ISO 3200 on the 30D is useable.

Lens: Aperture over IS, every time, so f/2.8 is jacks to open indoors -- IS is very handy in mode 2 when panning shooting sports at shutter speeds under 1/1000. IS mode 1 I find useful when handholding anywhere, anytime. f/4 for what you want to do is not recommended; not enough indoors.

Consider for volleyball a prime like 85 f/1.8 if you're on the sidelines http://eflens.com/cgi-bin/eflens.cgi?ID=1000044&method=perfect&tmp=lens-template or the 135 f/2 from the stands http://eflens.com/cgi-bin/eflens.cgi?ID=1000046&method=perfect&tmp=lens-template


Enjoy!

[stickx]

My opinion is....

30D with a 2.8 lenes. The 3200 ISO and 2.8 works well for indoor sports (and if you are going to spend that much look at IS if you are not using a monopod). Just run it through something like Noise Ninja ($79) to get rid of all the noise. You will love the results.

Just my thoughts...
After more searching and reading it looks like the 3200 iso with a 2.8 is necessary in some indoor gyms, and that is were I will be shooting at times. That leads me to the 30D. I don't think the extra $600 for the IS is worth it for me. I better be shooting at 1/300 (more like 1/500 or faster) if I want to stop the action.

For soccer, it looks like the 1.4 TC would be helpful. Are any 3rd party TCs as good as the Canon?

[stickx]

1. If your instincts and timing honed over those years is solid, the lag I saw using an XTi wasn't a problem. XTi + battery grip feels solid in the hands as well. Timing on volleyball is paramount, as you know, soccer is less predictable.

2. 5 FPS is handy when, for example, you see a fight in front of the net in soccer that you realize might result in a good shot, but you only know when to start shooting. Then, lean on the motor drive, and the 30D is worth it vs. the XTi.

3. As a practical matter, no. Pixels just help you print larger at a given PPI.

4. ISO 3200 on the 30D is useable.

Lens: Aperture over IS, every time, so f/2.8 is jacks to open indoors -- IS is very handy in mode 2 when panning shooting sports at shutter speeds under 1/1000. IS mode 1 I find useful when handholding anywhere, anytime. f/4 for what you want to do is not recommended; not enough indoors.

Consider for volleyball a prime like 85 f/1.8 if you're on the sidelines http://eflens.com/cgi-bin/eflens.cgi?ID=1000044&method=perfect&tmp=lens-template or the 135 f/2 from the stands http://eflens.com/cgi-bin/eflens.cgi?ID=1000046&method=perfect&tmp=lens-template


Enjoy!
Thanks for the advice. Am I right in assuming that I will be better off timing the volleyball shot rather than relying on the burst mode to get the ball in mid hit? If so, then is the 5 fps really that much better than 3, even for the soccer scrums?

My thoughts on the pixel count are that I will be cropping the image and therefore effectively blowing up the image. Are 2 less megapixels going to be noticeable in cropped shots? As much as I will try to fill the frame, it can be difficult in action scenes to get it just right.

Sorry for the ignorance, but what is IS mode 1 and 2?

I have thought about a prime 85, and talked to some amateur photographers at some events who were using the 85 and some using the 70-200. Both like their lenses. I like the flexibility that the 70-200 gives me in case I move between the stands and the floor, and I don't think I will want to buy both.

[Atl-Fotos]

Personally, I'd stick with Canon... They are made for each other.... But I have heard others work just as well. I do not have an experience outside of the Canon TC.

[S.Horton]

You're right, burst mode won't help you with timing the hit. What will help is pre-focusing if at all possible and in that regard set up center-point AF only to obtain the the AF speed.

3 fps in Soccer, Lacrosse etc. feels really slow to me. I'd have to be much better with timing to use it and having spent time at 5 and 8.5, there's little doubt faster is better to get more keepers for print.

I shoot for focus, exposure and action, crop tight later, so composition in the frame (showing inexperience there) is limited to trying to control my background.

On pixels and cropping -- Good Q, and technically I simply do not know, but in practice the sharpness of the photo ultimately determines my ability to crop. Hence expensive, fast, L glass.

IS mode 1 stabilizes all motion, mode 2 stablizes only 90 degrees and is used when panning. See this thread for a better explanation that I could give.
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=25375

I see why you'd want to use the 70-200 all the time; I want that also and use it -- mentioned primes as an idea, because at f/2.8 if the light gets poor motion blur comes into play.

Post some pics when you can!

[S.Horton]

Oh, and welcome to POTN. Mods and truly experienced pros here will be a great resource for you. I hope I helped; I'm just a rabid amatuer.

[Alan Dye]

The only suggestions I can give is from personnal experiance with shooting hockey.

I'd go with the 30D and a Sigma 70-200 f/2.8(Great Value!). You won't be dissappointed! ;)

[Tee Why]

I have both and would recommend the 30D. Ability to increase ISO in 1/3 stop increments is nice to have. The body is sturdier, especially with bigger lenses.

The 2MP difference is trivial at best but the XTi is a lot noisier at ISO 400 and up. I would get the 30D mainly for this reason. Five fps is nice if you like to spray and pray but the lag is minimal with both so I shoot sports in one shot mode and rely on timing rather than luck.

As for lenses, you are right, IS won't freeze fast moving subjects so it may be of limited value to you. Personally, I'd stick with something like an 85mm f1.8 or a 100mm f2 for the volleyball as it'll give you double the shutter speed of a f2.8 zoom, which will allow you to avoid shake and/or use lower ISO for less noise. The primes are also lighter on wallet and lighter when you hold it.

Good luck